Designing a Vegan/Vegetarian T-Shirt. Suggestions needed!

[bonzo]

Hi guys,

I made a thread in this forum the other day, asking what humans and non-human animals have in common. I probably should have explained why I'm asking and what I'm up to.

Basically, I've had what I think is a cool idea for a t-shirt design.

I'm going to be using one of those ghastly diagrams showing the cow parts/beef cuts on a cow. Like this one here:



but instead of having "neck", "brisket", "flank"..etc. I'm going to have words like "heart", "soul", "emotion"...etc.

And then underneath the cow I'm going to have the words:

"Someone, not something"


I'm just a bit stuck on what words to use. I've got a whole list, but I want to make sure that the words I'm using are all accurate and make sense biologically, physiologically wise. Basically, I don't want a reason for hard nosed meat eaters a reason to critisise the design. You know what they're like!

So far this is my list I've compiled. Going to be using around 8 or 9.

Heart
Soul
Desires
Consciousness
Self awareness
Empathy
Intentionality
Morals
Joy
Grief
Excitement
Bereavement

If anyone has any input on what to put on, please let me know. I would appreciate any feedback on my list and of course my t-shirt idea.

[Stu]

Sounds like a great idea. You could also do the reverse, i.e. a diagram of a human with 'rib' etc...

[fiamma]

I think it's a brilliant idea!!!

I'd keep the words to emotions and other key words that humans can very easily identify with. (One possibility is Sadness. Or Love?) I like Heart, Soul, Joy, Grief and Excitement, they're all very strong.

I'll keep thinking, but I think it's a superb idea, and that it will be very striking and thought-provoking when it's done.

[Slowly I Awake]

Oh, I love it!

May I suggest "Grief" being planted somewhere close to the gut, as that's where I seem to feel aggravation first.

Okay, all kidding aside ~ I'd buy that shirt.

[pat sommer]

free will, pleasure, kindness

Anyone seen the cover of The Sexual Politics of Meat?
It shows a beach towel from Cattleman's association with a gal wearing nothing but a stetson and a smile, similarly labeled. Quote: what's your cut?

The cartoon I have under vegan jokes I was hoping to have as a T-shirt sometime.
Just need someone more competent than myself to make it more 'Farside' looking:
"No, Harold, that's uddermilk!"

Let us know where your T-shirt will be available

[bonzo]

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the feedback and suggestion.

I may well print these shirts and sell them online. Maybe donating a percentage of the profit to an animal charity, it it's possible to implement that into the shopping cart system - will have to check, I'm not sure.

I have another question. I would print them on some sort of organic/fair trade t-shirt. Obviously this costs a bit more.

Personally speaking, are you prepared to pay a few pounds/dollars more for items such as t-shirts..etc, if it means your product has been "ethically sourced" as opposed to made in a sweat shop in India?

I'm inclined to this YES, vegans/vegetarians/animal lovers are caring people and don't have a problem paying a little extra. But let me know what you think....

cheers!

[Slowly I Awake]

Assuming a little extra doesn't mean $40+ (concert t-shirts drive me nuts for that reason), sure. It's not like I'm buying them to clothe my kids, who grow like weeds. This would be a special purchase just for me.

Maybe Cafe Press can help you get started. I found this:

http://www.cafepress.com/cp/customiz...ar=true&no=252

[phact0rri]

Cafe press is actually the last place one should go to, for good quality. I know a lot of people (I am involved in webcomics) who have had some bad experiences with the screen print ink chipping and the fabric discolouring after only a few washes.

if your going to the whole ethical route Planet Ink does organic cotton with vegetable based inks. They also have good prices.

There's also hemp Organic. They tend to be more hands on and use water based inks and print on hemp and cotton blend shirts. They do mention a discount for non-profits. I was looking at them for some shirt printing... and even though shoddy website design had little to do with craftmanship.. the way things were described and the way its all put out there made me take a pass.

[Shrapnel]

I don't know what to add for ideas, but I would like to say I think that's a brilliant idea! I don't think I ever saw it done.

[Corum]

Please be careful guys, Bonzo's in London so getting t-shirts back from LA won't be that cheap to source.

Most t-shirt printers will give you a choice of what shirts to print onto, of differing degrees of quality and eco credentials.

One thing I will take issue with, is just because we're animal lovers, why should we pay extra? Good quality t-shirts from a specialist t-shirt printers are about £8 each (cost not retail), fully printed including the cost of the shirt. Obviously add a few quid onto the cost for artwork (if the printer has to make up the artwork for you, it'll cost more) and the charitable donation, so you'd be looking at a retail price of about £15 per shirt.

Think what the image is going to be - photographs will look cheap and nasty - and how you're going to get it to the printers.

If you're going to send artwork to a printers, make sure you get to see a proof made up (again, it'll cost a few pounds more but better that, than the printers getting your design wrong).

The reason why tour shirts cost £20/$40 is because the printing quality is that much better, you normally have a four colour image and they're guaranteed to last for at least 7-10 years if you look after them (I'm still wearing an Iron Maiden shirt I bought in 2000 and it still looks good). Also bands like Iron Maiden buy them in bulk and sell thousands, that's how they make their money in this day and age - all genuine Maiden merchandise has the words "© Iron Maiden Holdings Ltd 2000 (or whatever year)". If their designs were smaller print runs, they would cost a lot more than $40

HTH Corum, t-shirt designer

[Slowly I Awake]

Oh my gosh! I was thinking of Iron Maiden's tour shirts as I typed that. All 4 of us have one or two in each closet.

[phact0rri]

well really I was thinking more along the lines of ease of printing with online type of things. I'm sure there are places in London that'd do it. Normally if you go with a standard screen printer though they are going to ask for a specific amount for a run if you are specifying the inks and shirts.

By the by I thought he/she was designing the shirt, and doing artwork... but I wouldn't imagine it that dificult to redesign that photo in actually black and white. The issue would be if there was a need for different colours for the shirts. as the white bits for the lighting sheens on the coat would work like a "window" and if you went for darker colours in might look kinda strange.

[bonzo]

Hey guys, thanks for the replies.

I'm actually a graphic designer myself and have experience of screen printing, so that side of things are not a problem.

Just wanted to see if people were bothered when it comes to "ethical clothing".

One thing I will take issue with, is just because we're animal lovers, why should we pay extra?

Well, I assume most of us care about people too. If you're buying a blank t-shirt from a t-shirt wholesaler for £1, they're obviously buying it from third world sweatshops for a quarter of that price. By the time that money trickles down to the actual workers, they're getting pennies.

[Corum]

Hey Bonzo,
Glad to see another Graphic Designer on here

Like you say, I wouldn't go anywhere near the £1 t-shirts anyway. What I object to is the instant mark-up put on anything that's for vegans, etc. (or on sale in Brighton for example)

[phact0rri]

^ I do graphic design as well, if it wasn't obvious.

[bonzo]

What I object to is the instant mark-up put on anything that's for vegans, etc. (or on sale in Brighton for example)

Yea, I know what you mean. I've found this when looking for vegan shoes. Close to £100 a pair most of the time. Ridiculous. I think it's because the assumption is that all vegans are rich, middle-class hippies with money to burn.

[phact0rri]

I think a lot of the of the vegan mark up is due to the supply and demand situation. There aren't a lot of vegans, and there are not a lot of places that cater to vegans.

Many vegan businesses make high price marks, because they don't have enough customers to really instigate enough profit. Many major companies will simply mark up vegan products simply because they know its hard for vegans to find stuff, and when they find it they will pay.

Is veggie shoes that expensive now though. goodness. I got a pair of vegan boots at Ethical wares in wales last time I was visiting the UK and it wasn't nearly that expensive. Course I also suppose London could be a different situation.

[bonzo]

I don't normally buy special vegetarian friendly shoes. I just buy and wear trainers/sneakers that don't contain leather. But I was looking to get a pair of faux leather, smart, black shoes - the kind that people wear with a suit..etc, and those seem to be particularly pricey.

[phact0rri]

well the fancy dress shoes leather or not are pretty expensive, mainly cause they are high fashion and your paying for not just the material but the design itself. I have one pair of designer dress shoes, and I'm not even going to repeat how much I paid for them. There is a reason I only have one pair.

I do want another pair, like the ones with the larger heels that zip on the side. but I'm way to poor for it right now.

[pat sommer]

There is an old (non-vegan) adage:

Pay £50 for a pair of shoes and buy a new pair again next year.
Pay £100 for a pair of shoes and they will last you 5
Pay £300 and they will last you a lifetime.

I am on year 4 with my vegetarian shoes; may need resoling next year.

[Roxy]

If I were buying one, I wouldn't mind spending a little bit extra to buy a more ethically sourced t-shirt.

[Halcyonelle]

Great idea, I had a similar concept in 2006 - see http://vegweb.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=1068&pos=0

But I never thought to put it on a t-shirt.

Hope you can do something valuable with it.

[phact0rri]

There is an old (non-vegan) adage:

Pay £50 for a pair of shoes and buy a new pair again next year.
Pay £100 for a pair of shoes and they will last you 5
Pay £300 and they will last you a lifetime.

I am on year 4 with my vegetarian shoes; may need resoling next year.

Well I think that its a good bit of info, and its good not to be a penny pincher all the time, especially if you are looking for good quality wares. However price doesn't always equate to good craftsmanship. But it can. but extremal cheap things almost never hold up.

But the internet is a good tool for this kinda thing, and if your ever going to throw down 300 quid on a pair of shoes its always a good idea to cheque out reviews before making a purchase.

[Blue moon]

There is an old (non-vegan) adage:

Pay £50 for a pair of shoes and buy a new pair again next year.
Pay £100 for a pair of shoes and they will last you 5
Pay £300 and they will last you a lifetime.

I am on year 4 with my vegetarian shoes; may need resoling next year.

£300 on a pair of shoes? Flip, I'd be sick of the sight of them long before I got over the pain of spending that much.

[bonzo]

Great idea, I had a similar concept in 2006 - see http://vegweb.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=1068&pos=0

But I never thought to put it on a t-shirt.

Hope you can do something valuable with it.

Awesome. Was considering doing a pig one too, but went with the cow because sadly the cow is the hardest worked farm animal, by far.

[bonzo]

These past couple of days I've been looking around in regular high street shops for smart, non leather shoes, and surprisingly, there is stuff out there to be found if you delve deep enough. The thing is, they don't really promote the fact that it's not leather, because non-vegans are obviously going to be put off by this fact!

Just a couple I found:

http://www.burton.co.uk/webapp/wcs/s...5136&langId=-1

http://www.burton.co.uk/webapp/wcs/s...5088&langId=-1

[fiamma]

You might want to put those links in a thread about vegan shoes...

[Slowly I Awake]

I just saw a Food Network commercial featuring 2 guys doing the BBQ thing, and one was wearing this very same image. I thought immediately of your t-shirt idea, Bonzo. I would LOVE to have your version as an answer to the rather obnoxious original.

[bonzo]

I just saw a Food Network commercial featuring 2 guys doing the BBQ thing, and one was wearing this very same image. I thought immediately of your t-shirt idea, Bonzo. I would LOVE to have your version as an answer to the rather obnoxious original.

Awww

Not to worry though...I've been working on my design. I think I'm just about done. Would appreciate a last few bits of feedback though.


(still need to draw the tail!)


I decided it would be better to keep the words emotions only.

I was originally planning on putting the tag line as "Someone, not something" but went off that idea because although I and the rest of us do see other animals as equal beings, I think referring to a cow as "Someone" might cause the odd obnoxious carnivore who doesn't get it, to start pulling this face ----->

So I opted for "100% Sentient" in the style of one of those 100% pure beef labels.

What do you think?

Do you think it needs another tag line running across underneath? To be honest, I like the idea of a low-key, non preachy vegetarian/vegan t-shirt. So I've resisted the urge to put GO VEGAN! or MEAT IS MURDER! I think that just alienates meat eaters rather than making them stop and think, which I hope is what this t-shirt will achieve.

[Slowly I Awake]

I really like it. I'd love to see "Grief" in there. Reading about how animals grieve after losing their babies and their farm friends really touched me, and I think it's one of those emotions that the average person is surprised to learn a farm animal experiences.

"Anxiety" and "Distress" could sub for one another. Maybe you could fit "Grief" into one of those spots?

"100% Sentient" is clever! I love "Someone, not something" for the emotion it creates though.

[phact0rri]

nice design. The blue outline really helps for it to pop on the dark background.

however, is the cow's tail missing?

[pat sommer]

Yes, nice and subtle T-shirt. I like grief too.

Goodness knows I have worn in-your-face images: best done when you look establishment and non-threatening, the double-take thing.

[bonzo]

Grief and tail added!

"100% Sentient" is clever! I love "Someone, not something" for the emotion it creates though.

Hmmm...maybe I should have both? What does everyone else think?


WITH?

(font subject to change)


WITHOUT?

[Prawnil]

Funnily, I would expect "100% Sentient" (along with Love, Hope & Joy) would draw more comments or argument than "Someone, not something." I think "Someone, not something" summarises the image more completely than "100% sentient". I like pat's old suggestion of 'will.'

[tombenarye1234]

i dont have any ideas but it's a really great shirt! |thumbs up|

[bonzo]

Been asking around and it seems that a lot of people don't even know what the word "sentient" means. So I think I shall just scrap it and put the "someone, not something" on the red label. cheers.

[fiamma]

I LOVE it!!! Where can I get one???

ETA: What about "100% human"????

[pat sommer]

...and if they didn't know the word vegan?

Sentient is a beautiful word and will provoke conversation and ultimately understanding, IMHO.

Less controversial discussing sentience versus personhood at any rate!

[Johnstuff]

I really like it!

Are you gonna be selling any? I'd buy one!

[whalespace]

I think "100 % Sentient" is not too much for people to think about. Whereas some people struggle to regognise that other people are "somebody".

Do cows really feel empathy?

[bonzo]

Sentient is a beautiful word and will provoke conversation and ultimately understanding, IMHO.

I agree, Pat. But I'm just going on what some other people (outside this forum) said yesterday. But I guess they were just a bit thick. I should take that into account.

Are you gonna be selling any?

Well that was the plan, but I'm not sure now..lol. Getting mixed reviews about it. Some people like it, others think it's dumb. Feeling a bit disheartened by the whole thing, so I dunno.

[fiamma]

Getting mixed reviews about it. Some people like it, others think it's dumb. Feeling a bit disheartened by the whole thing, so I dunno.

I think "sentient" is great and that you should leave it in.

Who thought it was dumb? Meat eaters? Most people don't think of cows as anything other than meat or milk machines, so that's probably the reason why.

All the more reason to make the shirt, don't you think?

I'm always on the lookout for intelligent, thought-provking vegan t-shirts that aren't too in-your-face, and I think this is one of the most incredible shirts I've seen in a long time. And if you don't make it I shall be very upset

[Prawnil]

I think that if there was a problem with it, it would be the "100%" rather than "sentient".

[bonzo]

I think that if there was a problem with it, it would be the "100%" rather than "sentient".

OK, so what percentage works best for you then? 70%? 80%? The "100% sentient" thing is a parody of the "100% pure beef" labels. Get it?

Who thought it was dumb? Meat eaters? Most people don't think of cows as anything other than meat or milk machines, so that's probably the reason why.

A couple of veggies on one of the yahoo veg/vegan groups. A bunch of meat eaters obviously too. The people who do like it, seem to really love it. I guess it's just one of those 'You either love it or you hate it' things.

[Johnstuff]

Please do sell some!!!

Don't let people put you off.

I like the 100% sentient parody with the beef, and the star, looks like the stars put on prize winning cattle.

I like the cow image you have used (better than the one at the beginning of the thread), looks elegent!

Do cows really feel empathy?

I think it is more likely than not.

[Prawnil]

OK, so what percentage works best for you then? 70%? 80%? The "100% sentient" thing is a parody of the "100% pure beef" labels. Get it?

Yeah, as a parody it works. I think it'd work even better on a rosette, or with a couple of little rosette ribbons. My point was, as a design solely for causing thought, that element begs awkward questions.

[Slowly I Awake]

Regarding animals feeling empathy, in The Inner World Of Farm Animals, there are stories that I believe demonstrate this. It is most obvious among the extremely traumatized/sick animals who are then looked after by other "veteran" animals at the sanctuary. It's very sweet.

[Shrapnel]

Do cows really feel empathy?

Factory farming and meat eating in general calls into question if humans, or most humans, really feel empathy >_>

[pat sommer]

Well said, Shrapnel.

...and I'll take womens size 42 blue, and childs size 6x white.

[confusionisben]

for my two cents i think that tshirt is one of the best supporting a vegan ethos i have ever seen.
i prefer it with just the 100% sentient.
and think that simply the word 'being', in a metaphysical sense, would encapsulate our feelings towards animals.