Being a vegan in the U.S.A.?

[missbettie]

I never thought inspecting a foodstuffs before putting it into ones cart is a vegan-centric thing. I think people should always investigate before buying anything. I mean there's all sorts of horrible things in processed foods I'd never put in my body... vegan or otherwise.

I agree, its kinda frightening how we sometimes buy food products that have an ingrediant list as big as the width of our thumb. Even i'm guilty of that...I was just thinking about that earlier this morning...

As for the whole point of this thread. Every country has areas or regions where it is more difficult to find Vegan food than others...its just the way the world works unfortunately.

[fiamma]

I was HOPING to get some advice about living as a vegan in the U.S.A. as I'll be holidaying there soon

Aaaaahhh, so that's what you wanted to know??? Forgive me, I thought your original post said

How do you manage it? Virtually nothing even says 'vegetarian' on it, and yet it could have BHT from an animal source, sugar refined with bone char etc etc etc

Sounds very much like a criticism of food in America, rather than a request for help. That's why I answered the way I did. Sorry. *face palm* Stupid me. I shall keep my "judging" to myself in future.

[Zero]

Firstly Lionspirit, a number of things you have said and the way you have said them are problematic for a number of reasons. which I will address below, however I would like to take this opportunity to clarify something:
No one here is attacking you because you are new so please have a happy time using the forum and please drop the paranoia, deal? :smile:

You (as you pointed out subsequently) didn't make yourself very clear from the start and seemed to be telling vegans in America to justify themselves.

Some products do have a 'vegan' label but it's not required by any law and it's really only from the companies that are really into supporting this niche market (dare I call it that). Who knows, maybe those products are even from the UK... I really have no idea.

Vegan labelling is not required in the UK either and there is no legal definition of "vegan", the main benefit here is probably that we have the vegan society who do their best but given that it is estimated that there is somewhere around 500,000 vegans in the UK out of a population of 60,000,000 most major companies often don't care about meeting our needs specifically, it is improving though and more companies are slowly moving to label things vegan whereas others are actually dropping it due to allergy cross contamination concerns.

As you mention it's all about the niche markets generally

If you're not going to make an effort to be a vegan, you might as well buy chips (or fries) without bothering to check what they've been cooked in.

Obviously there is a duty to check whether things are cooked in vegetable or animal fats, most chips aren't cooked in animal fats these days though. So majority of the time it's a non issue.

Tricking people into following an "almost-vegan" version of veganism does not make being a vegan any easier. If being aware of ingredients discourages people, then so be it. It's easy to be a vegan in the U.K., so it makes sense to say that. It's nigh impossible to be a vegan in Antarctica, so it makes sense to say that. And if it's difficult to be a vegan in the U.S.A., it makes sense to say that instead of making false claims.

By the logic that appears to have been used in your question about who benefits... meat-eaters are right when they say "who benefits if you stop eating animal products but loads of animal products still get eaten (by other people)?". In both cases, animals benefit - in the former case, in response to your question, animals benefit due to less animal products being demanded.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that people follow a false version of veganism, people do the best they can, and there is always more to learn about what is and what isn't vegan unfortunately due to the fact that so many companies change their recipes so readily without a second thought as to whether it affects vegans as we are a minority.

You are correct that we must strive to reduce the demand vegan animal products, this will reduce the amount of by-product used too and make being vegan easier, this is very slowly happening

Walmart. Was trying to find out if the sugar used was refined with bone char - I would have to ask for each individual product. Also, didn't know that BHT is now usually vegan. The only other supermarket (or, due to the size of American things, probably a mini-supermarket) was Piggly Wiggly's.

The majority of sugar in the USA is not refined with bone char. Many companies creating mass produced sugar use a carbon based filter which is easier than using bone char.

Try to avoid baked goods with a sweet glaze as beet sugar doesn't work well for this so some companies may use a bone char filtered sugar (or may not so you could always ask if they know).

See this website for more info: http://www.veganproducts.org/sugar.html

It is one of those more difficult things to figure out, but if you mainly stick to the vegan products in grocery stores and health food stores then you can rest assured.

For restaurants use www.happycow.net to research where you are going.

Incidentally, where are you going in the USA? It might have made it easier if you had mentioned that too. I know from personal experience of having lived in and travelled across parts of the USA that it is easier to find veggie/vegan products in some areas than others, it's a huge country after all

If it's "just a few ingredients", then by that logic surely it's O.K. to eat pizza with "just a bit of cheese" on it or spaghetti with "just a bit of meat in the sauce"?

By buying products that have animal products in them, I am contributing to the suffering of the animal(s) who were exploited to make those products.

No one is suggesting that, you've taken it out of context. What was being referenced was the fact that vegan products can contain parts per million traces of non vegan products, even with cleaning between runs the vegan product can still be found to contain traces, however this does not support animal agriculture so it is acceptable.

The only way to avoid this would be to only buy products from vegan companies of which there are very few.

Thank you to those who gave useful advice rather than sitting at your computers and judging - especially Panzer, Mahk, burl, veganf, and sparklingsights. And mahk, didn't mean to contradict you in a previous post by saying "usually" instead of "always" in reference to BHT - probably didn't have much time to check properly what you had said (though I did read it properly originally). Sorry about that.

Glad you got the BHT thing sorted. Where ever you are going I hope you have a good time.

Hope you've found some useful information here.

[wendy]

I think no one should be so arrogant to decide for other people if they are a "good" vegan or not or if they have the right to call themselves a vegan.
If someone does not ask if the fries are baked in animal fat or if someone goes out eating and does not minutely investigate if there is not something undiscoverable animalbased in it, does not mean he is not a vegan. He might just the same give a better example.

[Zero]

I think no one should be so arrogant to decide for other people if they are a "good" vegan or not or if they have the right to call themselves a vegan.
If someone does not ask if the fries are baked in animal fat or if someone goes out eating and does not minutely investigate if there is not something undiscoverable animalbased in it, does not mean he is not a vegan. He might just the same give a better example.

Following a vegan lifestyle is about the definition set out by Donald Watson and the Vegan Society, to as far as practical and possible avoid animal products.

As for what oil fries are cooked in, it is easy to find out and very easy to source the same product not cooked in animal fats, the majority of places don't fry in animal fats anyway. Additionally, if you buy a product that was cooked in animal fats you are directly supporting the use of that product.

The trace ingredient issue is altogether different (as I mentioned in my last post above), parts per million cross contamination does not actually support the industry from which those traces came and it is inevitable when using the same production line for vegan and non vegan foods (even with cleaning between runs).

[phact0rri]

As for "ivory tower" - NO. I was HOPING to get some advice about living as a vegan in the U.S.A. as I'll be holidaying there soon (obviously my reason for holidaying there must because I hate Americans so much). What I got was, to shorten all the responses down, basically "don't bother trying", "you hate Americans", "you're not American so you must think you're better than Americans". I guess those who posted the responses maybe just automatically see any debate about anything related to American as an attack on America.

I felt your original post was more lazy than attacking America. "ZOMG things don't say vegan". i dunno it might be a bit crazy by all the horror stories about people in rural villages in the states having problems being vegan. But pretty much any major city you will not have a problem. I lived in Knoxville Tennessee which is barely a city and I had no problem being Vegan. There are obviously places more vegan friendly, like Portland, Los Angeles, San Francisico and New York City.

We actually do have vegetarian labels, but don't focus on that. As I said earlier cheque labels. you should always do that. Speaking on across the pond, if you are looking at vegetarian labels to make sure things are vegan, then I'd be a bit concerned. Especially with the controversy lately over the food and drug regulations put forth by the EU.

[wendy]

I was not talking about cross contamination.
And my point was you should not decide for someone else what being a good vegan is.

[Zero]

I'm not deciding that for anyone, where exactly did I say I was? People don't have to justify themselves to me. All I did was outline the definition of vegan and make some very (IMO) logical comments on this matter.

[RubyDuby]

Zero- your posts have been very logical and insightful.

Are fries ever cooked in anything but veg oil?? I know McD's uses beef extract to flavor theirs, but have always assumed that was just a crazy McDonald's thing and on a whole fries are safe?

If they were like beans and greens for example, which could be cooked in animal fat, then it's easy to find out if it's vegan just by asking. Sugar (as an ingredient) and "natural flavorings" on the other hand are close to impossible to know for sure.

[Zero]

Thanks RubyDuby

Places that cook chips/fries the "old fashioned" way may indeed cook them in animal fats (gross) but yeah on the whole any product cooked in animal fats can easily be avoided simply by asking about it as you say.

I heard about the McD's beef tallow thing, not sure if they still do it, but who wants to eat there anyway?

Indeed the natural flavorings and sugar as an ingredient can be an issue and you just have to do the best research you can and try to avoid the issue until labeling improves (we live in hope).

[RubyDuby]

McD's still uses beef flavor (and milk ) in their fries, at least in the U.S.
fries made in lard... so gross. I wonder if I've ever eaten that.

[Mahk]

Places that cook chips/fries the "old fashioned" way may indeed cook them in animal fats (gross) but yeah on the whole any product cooked in animal fats can easily be avoided simply by asking about it as you say.

With the exception of McDonald's which coats the fries with animal compounds prior to frying them in vegetable oil. [weird] I've never seen a place that cooks fries in lard/animal fat here in the states. I think that's a more European thing like in France, where I've heard it's done. Are there known, um, I think you call them "chippers", which use lard in the UK?

Many places in the US may use the same oil to cook onion rings that have egg/dairy in the batter, however, but that cross contamination doesn't bother me personally because it in no way increases the demand for more animal death, increases my cholesterol level, or destroys the environment.

Sugar (as an ingredient) and "natural flavorings" on the other hand are close to impossible to know for sure.

Agreed 100%, Ruby.

Indeed the natural flavorings and sugar as an ingredient can be an issue and you just have to do the best research you can and try to avoid the issue until labeling improves (we live in hope).

Researching it makes perfect sense, but only if you do it each and every time you buy the product. If you contact, say, Grey Poupon to ask if the sugar they use to make their mustard is bone char filtered, they'll have absolutely no idea what you are even talking about unless you explain it to them. If you some how convince them to disclose the brand they buy (considered a trade secret by some companies and none of our business) that only protects you [once you've verified it's from a sugar brand that promises never to use bone char filtration] until they need to reorder more sugar. Anyone that thinks their response is a promise to maintain that same brand of sugar, forever, is living in a fantasy.
---

US Sugar factoids:

- It is illegal to market a product for a supermarket shelf labeled as "sugar", "pure sugar", or "table sugar" and specify on the packaging if it is made from beets or cane. The sugar industry has specifically decided they don't want you to know. [Some brands skirt this issue by labeling their product as somthing else like "Dehydrated cane juice crystals", and such, such as "Florida Crystals". Also emails can often determine the source.]

- It is illegal to market a product for a supermarket shelf labeled as "sugar", "pure sugar", or "table sugar" and specify on the packaging if it is filtered through bone char or what the marketers now euphemistically prefer to call "natural charcoal".

- Some brands, such as Domino's, I believe one of, if not the largest sugar producers here in the US, use bone char filtration in some of their factories, but not in others. Although the packages do not say, if one emails in the batch code printed on the bottom they can tell you if it comes from one of their facilities that still uses some bone char filtration. Good luck contacting a company to find out what the batch code number on their current bag/container of sugar is they use to make mustard that month.

Hypothetical scenario:

Grey Poupon CSR: "No, Mahk, after doing extensive research I've determined that our [Grey Poupon] mustard's sugar is from cane, but not filtered through bone char, which I had never heard of until you mentioned it, so you can rest assured our product is OK for you to consume."

Mahk: "Well what do they filter it through then?"

Grey Poupon CSR: "The sugar company told me they use a very fine powder in their filters made from a pure and natural form of charcoal."

DOH!

[Zero]

With the exception of McDonald's which coats the fries with animal compounds prior to frying them in vegetable oil. [weird] I've never seen a place that cooks fries in lard/animal fat here in the states. I think that's a more European thing like in France, where I've heard it's done. Are there known, um, I think you call them "chippers", which use lard in the UK?

It is more of European thing indeed unless you visit somewhere like the Heart Attack Grill in Arizona (which I can't imagine a vegan doing) but it's very rare here in the UK too, but as I was responding to someone in Belgium I thought it worth mentioning.

Researching it makes perfect sense, but only if you do it each and every time you buy the product. If you contact, say, Grey Poupon to ask if the sugar they use to make their mustard is bone char filtered, they'll have absolutely no idea what you are even talking about unless you explain it to them. If you some how convince them to disclose the brand they buy (considered a trade secret by some companies and none of our business) that only protects you [once you've verified it's from a sugar brand that promises never to use bone char filtration] until they need to reorder more sugar. Anyone that thinks their response is a promise to maintain that same brand of sugar forever, is living in a fantasy.

Indeed, I wasn't suggesting you research every product that is far beyond practical

I meant in terms of avoiding the obvious sources, but I probably should have clarified that further.

[sparklingsights]

McD's still uses beef flavor (and milk ) in their fries, at least in the U.S.

That's a shame, I used to love their fries. I can't believe their fries aren't even vegetarian, nevermind vegan. Sheesh.

[wendy]

In Belgium the McDo fries are vegan

[sparklingsights]

Maybe I'll have to come visit.

[wendy]

You're welcome

[harpy]

Apparently it's traditional in the UK to fry chips in beef dripping - they still do it in the fish & chip chain Harry Ramsdens I believe. However, I think vegetable oil is used in most chippies these days.

[Mahk]

Indeed, I wasn't suggesting you research every product that is far beyond practical

I meant in terms of avoiding the obvious sources, but I probably should have clarified that further.

^I'm not quite sure I understood that. I wasn't implying products shouldn't be researched, Zero.

My point was there's a huge difference between scrutinizing oil and scrutinizing sugar as sub-ingredients in foods we buy in the US, so we shouldn't be discussing them interchangeably.

If you ask a chipper [potato french fries/ chip vendor] what kind of oil they use they can walk over to the container and check for you:

"It says 100% soybean oil, Mahk."

If, on the other hand, I ask Grey Poupon mustard if the sugar they use is filtered through bone char, they wont know the answer and they can't check the container either because it is illegal for "sugar" to be labeled as such in the US. Finding out what brand they use, if they'll even tell you, is pointless because I'll have no promise they will maintain that brand, batch to batch. They have no loyalty to any particular brand of sugar and will gladly switch at will, due to varying cost and availability factors. So the simple solution is to contact them each and every time you purchase their product, to ascertain what sugar brand they are currently using, if they'll tell you, and then privately research if that particular sugar company is one that still has any bone char filtration refineries. [Roughly 25% do in the US, by my research.]

Another approach would be to simply deem sugar as "not vegan", since it is virtually impossible to research its filtration here in the US, and eliminate all the foods that very commonly contain some small amounts such as breads, pretzels, pita, crackers, muffins, rolls, salad dressings, ketchups, mustards, salsas, tomato pasta sauces, pizza doughs, pizza sauce, bagels, canned vegetables (e.g. almost all peas), soups, champagnes, “typical” peanut butters, etc. [and of course most breakfast cereals, sweets, soda pop, candy, and desserts]

P.S. Better check if the "white wine" used in the Grey Poupon mustard is "vegan" [filtration]. I'm sure they'll know the answer to that if you ask them...NOT.:smile:

[Sloth]

If you ask a chipper...

Sorry, chipper?

[Mahk]

I thought a place that sells french fries/ chips/ deep fried food in the UK was called a "chipper". No?
It might be a regional thing.

[Sloth]

Hmm 0_o no. Wherever I've been in the UK it's been 'chippy'. Damn Wiki.

[Zero]

My point was there's a huge difference between scrutinizing oil and scrutinizing sugar as sub-ingredients in foods we buy in the US, so we shouldn't be discussing them interchangeably.

Well regardless we are on the same wave length with this

[timberly]

I found pumpkin muffins in the bakery section of whole foods that had a big orange vegan sticker on the front and through them in the cart without checking the label. My boyfriend picked them out and read that there were whole eggs, milk, and cream in them! I can't even trust the things marked vegan on them in whole foods anymore! I had them correct it but they didn't really seem to care

[wendy]

Shame on them! Hopefully they will be more carefull in the future!

[sparklingsights]

I can't even trust the things marked vegan on them in whole foods anymore!

I don't think you can trust them anywhere. It's a good, helpful start... but you always have to check the label!
Good example: my Mum picked up this tasty-looking squash/sweet potato side dish with a vinaigrette glaze from the grocery store. She gets it home and is ready to make it... I read the ingredients just for kicks... chicken fat! chicken meat! What the HELL?! So insanely unnecessary in something that could have so easily been vegan. She was so bummed she didn't read the label, I felt bad for telling her but always, always, always gotta read the label.

[harpy]

Hmm, I bought a banana muffin with a "vegan" sticker in the Whole Foods here (Kensington High St) the other day, and that didn't have an ingredients list.

Suppose I'll have to try and force my way into their kitchen next time to find out what they're putting in them. (No hurry, I'll have to save up for a while before buying another one )

[Mahk]

Of course they should be more careful but there are two problems about Whole Foods vegan stickers:

They aren't part of the actual ingredients list so they have to be applied by hand by a person who:

A) really knows what vegan means, and not all clerks in such shops do
B) really reads the ingredients list to check

To add insult to injury they often have two items that are nearly identical but only one is vegan. Some of my local WFS have vegan carrot cake slices (the best I've ever eaten BTW :drool: ) right next to the very similar normal carrot cake slices. It's easy to see how a new omni clerk applying stickers could goof up.

Harpy, do you mean the actual ingredients list must have fallen off or accidentally didn't get affixed to the item you bought? One of the best things about shopping at WFS is that everything, even the salad bar, has a visible ingredients list, at least here.

[harpy]

It's all a bit hazy now as it was a couple of weeks ago , but I wouldn't necessarily expect to have an ingredients list attached to something like that: an item made in an instore bakery typically wouldn't. Loaves baked in-store generally don't, though supermarkets will often (always?) produce a list on request. So possibly Whole Foods have adapted to local habits in that respect.

AFAICR as well as being individually stickered these things had a ticket on the table or plate saying something fairly explicit like "VEGAN MUFFINS" which is the only reason they caught my eye, as I actually went in there to get completetly different stuff, mainly samphire.

Obviously I am much too trusting

[Zeebo]

Living in the US using strict vegan standards is impossible unless one privately imports all their food from the UK or other labeling countries and only eats that. Obviously that's tremendously expensive and not very eco-friendly considering the carbon footprint of the transportation costs.

I find it quite easy. I cook for myself. I don't eat at fast food places and I don't eat junk food. I read labels and have educated myself on ingredients. What changed with me was my desire to eat whenever I was hungry, wherever I was...my appetite conformed to my schedule instead of me conforming to it. As stated before, being Vegan is as easy as the effort you put into it regardless of where you live.
I guess there is Being Vegan and Becoming Vegan...Obviously becoming Vegan can have it challenges, but in my opinion none of those challenges are all that difficult when the desire is strong to Be a Vegan.

[LionSpirit]

LionSpirit- To clear up any confusion I was referring to an irrelevent comment you made regarding how Americans don't know what vegetarian means in the now deleted "suitable for vegetarian" thread, as well as the comments in this thread (putting words in our mouths about not bothering to find out where animal products came from, and implying that everything in America is huge).

I'm sorry, but I am not going to fight with you.

If you would like advice on how to find vegan items in the U.S. it would be useful to say where you will be staying... as I said before America is huge. That's not a question that just anybody from America can answer for you.

If you're not going to fight, then please don't start one. It's childish. I was not fighting, I was defending myself peacefully.

And it's convenient that the supposed comment you refer to no longer exists. I don't recall what I posted there, but it was undoubtedly nothing bad about Americans, especially considering my partner is American.

And I didn't put words in anyone's mouth. People can read back over this thread easily if they want to, it's only a couple of pages long. You made assumptions and even a blatant lie about me (which I have countered with evidence).

I don't know what your motive is - perhaps you don't like newcomers, perhaps you have a chip on your shoulder because you met a nasty English person, perhaps it's something else. But I have done nothing to you and would appreciate it if you stopped.

As for information or/and advice - other people have already been very helpful.

[LionSpirit]

I never thought inspecting a foodstuffs before putting it into ones cart is a vegan-centric thing. I think people should always investigate before buying anything. I mean there's all sorts of horrible things in processed foods I'd never put in my body... vegan or otherwise.

Aaaaahhh, so that's what you wanted to know??? Forgive me, I thought your original post said



Sounds very much like a criticism of food in America, rather than a request for help. That's why I answered the way I did. Sorry. *face palm* Stupid me. I shall keep my "judging" to myself in future.

I've already explained how it was about food, not about America. I won't keep repeating.

I felt your original post was more lazy than attacking America. "ZOMG things don't say vegan". i dunno it might be a bit crazy by all the horror stories about people in rural villages in the states having problems being vegan. But pretty much any major city you will not have a problem. I lived in Knoxville Tennessee which is barely a city and I had no problem being Vegan. There are obviously places more vegan friendly, like Portland, Los Angeles, San Francisico and New York City.

We actually do have vegetarian labels, but don't focus on that. As I said earlier cheque labels. you should always do that. Speaking on across the pond, if you are looking at vegetarian labels to make sure things are vegan, then I'd be a bit concerned. Especially with the controversy lately over the food and drug regulations put forth by the EU.

Admittedly, it was lazy. I guess I could have looked up more of the ingredeients, or simply cooked from scratch more.

Apparently it's traditional in the UK to fry chips in beef dripping - they still do it in the fish & chip chain Harry Ramsdens I believe. However, I think vegetable oil is used in most chippies these days.

Most places in the U.K. do seem to use vegetable oil - but often the chips are cooked in the same vat as meat products.

I thought a place that sells french fries/ chips/ deep fried food in the UK was called a "chipper". No?
It might be a regional thing.

I'll second that it's definitely chippy (but that's really only the places that sell proper chips rather than simply fries). Wikipedia is edited by various people and often the info doesn't seem to be checked. I read an article once where every mention of Jesus had been changed to 'Puff Daddy'.

[missbettie]

Jumping jack rabbits...

[sparklingsights]

This again?

[eclectic_one]

I think (as others have noted) that being a vegan in the U.S.A. depends on what area of the country you live in. I have noticed that some people in very small out of the way towns have an extremely difficult time being vegan in that local stores sometimes carry little in the way of fresh produce or other vegan essentials. The little town I live in usually has enough fresh produce, canned/frozen veggies, non-dairy milks, tofu, tempeh, and now even some convenience foods (like riblets). Then I can drive a little less than an hour and get to a couple of very vegan friendly stores (that have more convenience foods, seitan, asian staples like sobe noodles, etc). I do still read labels, especially if I've never bought the product before, but as others have stated, I think that's a good idea for non-vegans as well. [However, from my limited experience, most Americans don't seem to read labels.] I, like some of you, try my best to buy vegan foods, but I do not necessarily worry about ingredients like sugar in another item. [I do try to buy bone-char free sugar for my baking though.] I'm sure I have also occasionally bought foods that had D3 in them when it wasn't clear which D vitamin was used. Some cereals--I think Life cereal is one--do not have D in them at all, so I feel safer buying them if it's not specified.

One ingredient mentioned that I did notice something different about was when I noticed one label--I think for an apple tart/pie--that said BHT (in lard) Apparently BHT keeps lard "preserved" longer, but they must have to include that info if lard is involved. I don't get why ANY company would use lard anymore

[Korn]

Living in the US using strict vegan standards is impossible unless one privately imports all their food from the UK or other labeling countries and only eats that.

Being vegan is about avoiding animal products as much as practical and possible, and if something is "impossible", you simply have to adjust your threshold; your vegan-ness.

Being obsessed with ingredients on a microgram-levels often leads a short, intense and frustrating period as a vegan... Maybe our thread called Are you a Self Exhausting Microgram-Oriented Vegan? would be interesting for you?

But then in reality it IS difficult to go vegan in the USA - so why pretend otherwise?

Maybe you are saying that it's difficult for you? Look at these statements...

It is so not hard to be Vegan in the USA. I think its a piece of Vegan cake

I think it is only difficult to be vegan if you make it difficult.

I totally agree with residualvisuals. It is easy if you make it easy.

I heard that beet sugar is not made with animal stuff, dunno.

If you dunno, wait with your worrying!

Vegans, Health and Sugar

Using the tactic of making things up to make a newcomer look bad is probably a useful tactic normally

Not here. On the contrary, I haven't seen any attempts of making newcomers look bad, and frankly - I haven't seen such accusations on other boards either and can't think of why people would want that.

Please don't use these discussion to accuse others for trying to making people look bad etc. Please have a look at our FAQ, and simply report posts if you think people are in any way being unfriendly.

There's a reason you won't find many unfriendly people here. We send them over to other boards.

[Mahk]

Being vegan is about avoiding animal products as much as practical and possible, and if something is "impossible", you simply have to adjust your threshold; your vegan-ness.

Being obsessed with ingredients on a microgram-levels often leads a short, intense and frustrating period as a vegan... Maybe our thread called Are you a Self Exhausting Microgram-Oriented Vegan? would be interesting for you?



Maybe you are saying that it's difficult for you? Look at these statements..

No, what I was saying was addressing the original poster specifically, that living by the standards that he stated, eating only vegan food is more difficult in the USA:

Virtually nothing even says 'vegetarian' on it, and yet it could have BHT from an animal source, sugar refined with bone char etc etc etc

None of our major supermarkets, with the exception of an expensive, healthfood one called "Whole Foods" labels food as vegan, a conveinience he enjoys from several major affordable supermarkets in his country and that he seems to have come to rely on based on his statement. We also don't have the Vegan Society registering over 14,000 products as safe to turn to, and sugar filtration methodology is never stated in an ingredients list such as mustard, which I think concerns him (nor have I ever seen "beet sugar" as a listed ingredient and as I mentioned labeling a bag of plain "sugar" as being from beets is illegal here). Worrying about food from his stated perspective would make eating here more difficult. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

Are you a Self Exhausting Microgram-Oriented Vegan?[/URL] would be interesting for you?

Sorry, I've read it before and your logic that equates not worrying about small amounts of animal compounds into "time of being vegan in years/months/days/hours/seconds" made no sense to me. Would it be OK for me to put cream in my coffee but only if I use a few drops?

Being vegan is about avoiding animal products as much as practical and possible, and if something is "impossible", you simply have to adjust your threshold; your vegan-ness.

I'd agree which is why I said,

I think we all (speaking about everyone all over the planet) have to make concessions for the environment we live in.

but I was respecting the OP's definition of "vegan" in addressing him.

[wendy]

http://www.veganoutreach.org/howvegan.htmlis says excatly how I feel:

[RubyDuby]

None of our major supermarkets, with the exception of an expensive, healthfood one called "Whole Foods" labels food as vegan.

Where I live in the NY/PA area of the U.S. there's a chain of about 75 stores called Wegmans (mentioned in a previous post) that does label their brand vegan. It's only within the last few years that Wegmans began this labeling and it makes shopping tons easier! Wegmans is definitely not a health food store and no more expensive than other grocery stores. I have only lived in a few states, but am holding out for the possiblity that maybe there are other stores that do this as well in other areas of the country? Does Trader Joes?

[BJJNick]

I think Trader Joe's labels some vegan products as such. Also, a lot of local food co-ops will label their food properly.
The problem I find is the lack of consistency. Just because it's not labeled vegan doesn't mean it's NOT vegan. Sugar for example is always a mystery.

[missbettie]

Trader Joes labels things Vegan...but it isn't always vegan, you still need to read it. I found a bread labeled Vegan and it had honey in it. And actually quite a few brands actually label things Vegan. IE Simply Asia...a few different canned soups....and all the markets around here have what i call a "tofu section" its a small section where they keep the tofu and other veggie products like veganaise, and tofurky fake meats...soyrizo...and then in the frozen section of the markets they normally have boca products and amy's frozen products too.

[Mahk]

I have only lived in a few states, but am holding out for the possiblity that maybe there are other stores that do this as well in other areas of the country? Does Trader Joes?

I agree with Nick that Trader Joes is extremely inconsistent. They have lots of food that after reading the ingredients can't possibly be not vegan yet they don't label it as such (ex. their own hummus) and to add insult to injury both missbettie and shellymi2nv have reported food labeled as vegan there that contained honey and whey [and when brought to the attention of the management they didn't seem to care].

Edit to add: Missbettie already spoke up I see.

Wendy, good link. Thanks for that.

Boca warning! Always read the box. There are two different "Chick'n" patties, one has egg. When I called their toll free #877-966-8769 for clarification the CSR asked me to read the complete UPC number on the box. He said, "Yes, that's vegan." When I read him the ingredients which clearly included egg he was baffled and said he'd report it to others (yeah, right). I no longer can find the egg free ones or at least haven't seen them for months.

[missbettie]

^ ya that damn hummus. it drives me nuts. I really dislike Trader Joes, but i like most of the products they carry...its a love hate relationship...

[Mahk]

Yeah I feel the same whey.
---

re the Boca Chik'n looks like the "natural" variety is the one we have to avoid.

[missbettie]

I was under the impression that the only Boca product thats vegan is the plain burger that is labeled vegan? i dunno though

[veganwitch]

There is a Boca chix that is vegan but I don't think it says vegan on the box. There might be two different ones (which seems silly) b/c there was a time when it said there was whey in it. Idk, I'm confused. I don't buy them that often but when I do they are vegan.

[RubyDuby]

I always avoided Trader Joes because they didn't seem to have a very good selection and I had a Whole Foods down the road... all that false labeling would have pissed me off! Boca chicken and spicy chicken are available here. both vegan. I've never seen the homestyle.

Gardenburger used to have the best chicken grillers, riblets and herb cutlets but they switched them over to Morningstar labeling and now the Wegmans around here don't carry them. Very sad.

[missbettie]

huh. i've never seen the vegan chickin ones. I don't have a Whole Foods near me the closest one is about an hour away...but we are getting one in the next town over soon!!!

[Korn]

Sorry, I've read it before and your logic that equates not worrying about small amounts of animal compounds into "time of being vegan in years/months/days/hours/seconds" made no sense to me. Would it be OK for me to put cream in my coffee but only if I use a few drops?

I'm not talking about intentionally putting animal products in your food or coffee in that thread, Mahk. I'm talking about going so far in trying to be a perfect vegan that you end up exhausting yourself and give up.

With your many cases of misinterpreting what I write, I'm not really surprised that you turn my statements into looking as if they are about vegans putting animal products in their coffee.

[Mahk]

With your many cases of misinterpreting what I write, I'm not really surprised that you turn my statements into looking as if they are about vegans putting animal products in their coffee.

Did you notice the question mark and the confused emoticon [] I placed at the end of my sentence? That means it's a question asking for clarification since I am confused, and not "turning your statements into looking as if...."

Anyways, I see now your discussion in that thread was about a vegan consciously eating food with ingredients which included micrograms of animal product listed on the ingredients label:

Some vegans are 'obsessed' with labels and avoid micrograms because it's important for them, it feels right/it makes them feel better. Others find it exhausting, and would feel guilty if they claimed to be a vegan and consumed a few micrograms of animal products now and then. If avoiding every animal products on a microgram level feels right/good, great; and since every microgram helps, it helps animals too. If not, read on.
...

I bring this up because some vegans may find it exhausting to avoid those microscopic amounts of animal products in their daily lives, and some potential vegans may think that going vegan may be difficult since there sometimes are animal products in unexpected places. ....

But to the 'Semovs' out there: don't exhaust yourself and use those tiny, tiny amounts of something as an excuse to say that it's going to be hard to continue to be vegan.

A few drops of cream in a cup of coffee would be measured in milligrams, not micrograms, so I retract my original question entirely since it doesn't apply.