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Thread: Vitamin B12 from soaking plant (daikon) seeds?

  1. #1
    treaclemine
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    Default Vitamin B12 from soaking plant (daikon) seeds?

    (I can't find this anywhere else yet). Not sure what this means but:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15182932

    Incorporation of a high level of vitamin B12 into a vegetable, kaiware daikon (Japanese radish sprout), by the absorption from its seeds.
    Sato K, Kudo Y, Muramatsu K.

    Department of Human Life Sciences Education, Graduate School of Education, Hiroshima University, 1-1-1 Kagamiyama, Higashi-Hiroshima 739-8524, Japan. ksato@hiroshima-u.ac.jp

    High level of vitamin B(12) was incorporated into kaiware daikon (Japanese radish sprout) by soaking its seeds in B(12) solutions. Vitamin B(12) amount incorporated into kaiware daikon increased up to 1.5 microg/g wet sprout with the soaking time of seeds in 0-200 microg/ml B(12) solution. Vitamin B(12) could be extracted more from the sample heated for a short time than from that of control without heat treatment.

  2. #2
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vitamin B12 from soaking plant seeds?

    Hi,
    This study from 2004 may not represent anything we didn't already know, but seems to confirm that (some?) seeds are capable of absorbing B12 if exposed to water/soil that contains B12. The text said that the levels increased to up to 1.5 microgram/g. That's 150 mcg/100g, which is very high, but the abstract doesn't say what the levels increased from, or what kind of B12 we are talking about.

    If there's no info about the bioavalibility of the B12 mentioned in this study, we don't know how valuable these facts are. We should expect some people to assume that the B12 found is useless/inactive/analogues because we don't know that are useful.

    Due to the soil depletion issues discussed elsewhere (eg here: B12 in soil - and soil depletion of nutrients), it's pretty safe to assume that the general B12 levels in soil aren't what they used to be, so supplementing soil/water with B12 may possibly be a good 'workaround' for not living a thousand years ago... maybe better than supplementing humans and animals (the animals meat eaters eat are as we know often highly "fortified" with nutrients) with B12.

    Since B12 in it's natural form is such a fragile vitamin, the best idea (for people low in B12) *could* be to take supplements directly instead of consuming something that has been fortified, but more studies would be needed to verify that.

    Then again, maybe adding B12 to the soil/water/seeds could result in a more stable/reliable way of getting B12 into humans - at least it's closer to emulating how our planet actually "behaved" before chlorinated water, nitrous oxide from cars and so forth were part of our lifestyle. We have all reasons to believe that the soil was much richer in cobalt/B12 back then.

    We also ate mainly fresh, and only organic plants in the past. Fresh and organic is important when it comes to B12 levels, and since we don't run around in the woods anymore - collecting plants, seeds, roots and nuts (or killing animals that have been living on a fresh/organic diet), supplementing soil/water with B12 could possibly be actually a useful solution: many nutrients are more efficiently absorbed from food than from supplements.

    There are at least some people out there who seem to think that supplementing seeds with B12 is a good solution, because they have patented the idea.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  3. #3
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vitamin B12 from soaking plant (daikon) seeds?

    B12 is often lost in conjunction with heating, and dried vegetables are normally heated. Still: according to this article, dried, shredded daikon radish ('kiriboshi daikon') contains B12.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  4. #4
    chico's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vitamin B12 from soaking plant (daikon) seeds?

    I'm usually puzzled with what "contains B12" means.

    Does this mean the molecules of "B12" have been clearly identified as either cyanocobalamin, hydroxycobalamin, adenosylcobalamin, glutathionylcobalamin or methylcobalamin? If so, using which method?

    Or is the sentence "contains B12" just saying that

    "according to the current flaky, biaised, unreliable methods that consist in trying to detect vitamin B12 analogues (both active and inactive) the result was positive".

    Does this really mean there is any active B12 at all?

    I'm sorry I have no time for reading yet another foggy report on vitamin B12 that is usually based on semantic imprecisions on what vitamin B12 actually means, if anyone can make me a brief summary I would ever be so happy. :smile:

  5. #5
    leedsveg
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    Default Re: Vitamin B12 from soaking plant (daikon) seeds?

    Quote chico View Post
    I'm sorry I have no time for reading yet another foggy report on vitamin B12 that is usually based on semantic imprecisions on what vitamin B12 actually means, if anyone can make me a brief summary I would ever be so happy. :smile:
    Sorry chico but I think you'll be lucky to find someone to both read the report and give you a summary. You seem to have already made up your mind about the report, without actually taking the trouble to read it. So with respect, if you 'can't be bothered', why should anybody else?

    Good luck anyway

    lv

  6. #6
    chico's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vitamin B12 from soaking plant (daikon) seeds?

    You again mate? Still trolling around?

    It's been a while I haven't been around, still I see somethings haven't changed! If you aren't able to help me, fine, but how can you speak about others? Are you like a god or something?

  7. #7
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vitamin B12 from soaking plant (daikon) seeds?

    Quote chico View Post
    "according to the current flaky, biaised, unreliable methods that consist in trying to detect vitamin B12 analogues (both active and inactive) the result was positive".

    Does this really mean there is any active B12 at all?
    When reports claim that a certain animal product contains a certain number of micrograms B12 per 100g, it's normally not known how large a percentage of these B12 molecules that are active/bioavailable. And even if they all are, we don't know if they'll be really beneficial, because of the many "B12 killers" most people are exposed to.

    When the large study of B12 levels of humans performed by Tuft University claimed that 39% of the participants had low B12 levels, and 9% were B12 deficient, there was no info about the rate of active B12 vs. inactive B12 molecules in their blood. No MMA or homocysteine tests were made either.

    The same goes for B12 found in multivitamins, fortified food, plants and so on. One problem is that the amount of B12 we need is so small that it sometimes can be hard to detect via lab tests, another is that the tests are done through heating, a third issue is that the food isn't fresh when being tested. And again, most tests (of food and humans) don't include a bioavailability-rate. Most of these more or less "scientific info" are only scratching the surface.

    "Contains" normally is a very vague term, but it's probably safe to assume that the more B12 found in a given product or human that can be found, the more active B12 molecules on will find there as well.

    And by the way - if you disagree with someone, - please focus on opinions, not on the the person you disagree with... ;-)
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  8. #8
    leedsveg
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    Default Re: Vitamin B12 from soaking plant (daikon) seeds?

    Quote chico View Post
    You again mate? Still trolling around?

    It's been a while I haven't been around, still I see somethings haven't changed! If you aren't able to help me, fine, but how can you speak about others? Are you like a god or something?
    Hi chico

    Yes I'm still here like the proverbial bad penny. Hope you've been well since you were last on VF. Like everyone else, I'm not omniscient, however I just couldn't see anyone responding to your request because of the terms it was couched in. But it's a funny old world and as I said before, good luck.

    Good wishes

    leedsveg

    [I must have posted at the same time as Korn. Pleased he's been able to give you info. lv]
    Last edited by leedsveg; Nov 30th, 2009 at 11:50 AM. Reason: addition

  9. #9
    chico's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vitamin B12 from soaking plant (daikon) seeds?

    Hi Korn

    I have tried to reach you to discuss some B12 related issues back on another thread, but I have never heard from you

    Quote Korn View Post
    And by the way - if you disagree with someone, - please focus on opinions, not on the the person you disagree with... ;-)
    I would take that advice if it meant anything, but quite honestly I don't see your point.

    Quote leedsveg View Post
    Hi chico(...)
    Good wishes
    Thing is, you see, you seem to have a standard pattern of behaviour... first you come up as arrogant and confrontational and sarcastic and then when I react you are diplomatic and polite. This has happened a few times already, still it's bizarre.

  10. #10
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vitamin B12 from soaking plant (daikon) seeds?

    quite honestly I don't see your point.
    I can use an example from your message to Leedsveg: " first you come up as arrogant and confrontational and sarcastic and then when I react you are diplomatic and polite. This has happened a few times already, still it's bizarre."

    If you think someone here are sarcastic or has a bizarre behavior, please either report it or ignore it. From our FAQ: "6) Please treat each other (including members that in your opinion don't follow our guidelines) with respect. NB: If you disagree with someone, focus on viewpoints, not on persons. Should you be verbally attacked, please offer others the same understanding and kindness you would like to receive. Don't trigger/nourish personal conflicts - rather, report posts if you feel that you or someone else aren't treated with respect."


    ---


    I remember a question about something B12 related, but unfortunately I haven't been able to respond to it yet. Will try to do it soon!
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

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