Huge zero grazing dairy proposal - UK

[VeganMonkey]

Read about this in the Guardian and thought I would post in case anyone wants to register their objections to the application. The scale is frightening - 8000 cows producing 430,000 pints of milk daily...

http://www.viva.org.uk/

[Mollfie]

I've been debating this on several forums and talking about it all day.

Apprently animal welfare isn't a good enough reason to object. It's ridiculous.

[harpy]

I'll object, on environmental grounds if that's what's needed as there seem to be plenty. The Guardian article suggests objections have to be in by today though

[Linxie]

Have any of you read the press release on Nocton Dairies website? http://noctondairies.co.uk/ I actually laughed out loud at the answers to Qs 18 & 19. They are so ridiculous its hard to believe they are serious! Since when is sending a cow to the slaughterhouse retaining its dignity!? And thanks goodness the calves are sold for veal and not shot, I was worried there for a minute!!

[Kevin2]

Q3 Why so many?
A3 By having more cows, we can create economies of scale that will benefit the well-being of the cows. For instance, there will be 24 hour veterinary cover and facilities for veterinary training on-site. Secondly Lincolnshire is not a traditional dairying area so many of the specialist jobs, such as hoof trimming, which are easily filled by contractors in say Devon or Lancashire will have to be filled in-house. The scale will allow us to have the best cared for cows in the country producing milk with the lowest carbon footprint.

I'm not in the UK, but having looked at the site this Q&A particularly interested me. I wonder how often "economies of scale" have actually improved conditions for the animal in question. It seems to me that the factory aspect of farming is much more a cause than an antidote for the suffering of animals.

Q24 Will the cows be given growth hormones?
A24 No. The use of growth hormones (rBST) is illegal in the European Union. We appreciate the scale of this dairy farm is unprecedented in the UK but if we don’t care for our cows in a sustainable, sympathetic fashion then they won’t ‘look after us’ by producing milk.

Oh I wish this was the case! The fact is, cows will produce milk under conditions of extreme cruelty and manipulation - and often to a larger degree than they would if they were treated more humanely.

Q7 Will it smell?
A7 Dairies, even of this size, do not have an unpleasant smell. The smell associated with cattle farming is usually from stored slurry. All of the slurry from these cows will be taken straight to the digester where it will be processed into odour-free solid and liquid portions. The solid portion is a valuable organic fertilizer and the liquid portion we will be able to irrigate onto growing crops using the network of existing pipes, also reducing the need for fresh water abstraction.

Is this credible? If I'm reading it correctly it's claiming that there will be no runoff of filth/excrement/pollution in general.

[VeganMonkey]

Arggh! Their pathetic excuses for their behaviour make me so angry!! Of course, the whole thing is just an exercise in animal welfare, not about maximum profit at all...

[kokopelli]

Apparently in Wales the idea of keeping cows indoors is also being contemplated as a possible way to reduce greenhouse gases, because cows produce 500 litres of methane per day, equivalent to 10 tonnes carbon dioxide per year and the idea is to collect the methane and use it as an energy source.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/8551901.stm

[helen105281]

There are reports on facebook that the planners meeting scheduled for Monday has been cancelled. Not sure if that's good or not.

[fiamma]

Here in Italy the majority of animals are kept indoors. In the region of Emilia Romagna (where cities such as Bologna, Modena, Parma, Ferrara and Rimini are), there are more pigs than people. Only you don't see them, you can only smell them.

[Est]

I've objected.

[whalespace]

I've heard a few articles about this on Radio 4's "Farming Today" programme.
Welfare issues are not taken into account during the granting of planning permission, but an R.S.P.C.A. spokesperson suggested that welfare issues should be addressed before the granting of permission....presumably to prevent problems which require R.S.P.C.A. intervention later.

Last week I heard an interview with the big boss of "Midland Pig Producers", on Needwood House farm [4000 sows]. While he was explaining the need for cutting off the piglets' tails, and snapping out their teeth [while his assistant was doing the deeds], the interviewer asked him a few questions about one of his other projects....an intensive indoor dairy farm, I thought it was this Lincolnshire farm.

Managing Director Martin Barker goes over a few of the smell issues at this link:
http://www.mppfoston.com/

Smell is a major issue for slurry producing farms. My town is several miles from fields where pig slurry is spread; the smell covers half of the town sometimes. I think there are time limits about such smells, emanating from environmental health legislation.

The biodigesters will almost certainly stop the smells, reduce methane release [methane is 'worse' than CO2], and solve energy issues. The same should have been done with human waste years ago.

The Boss pigman also talked about how they had designed the intensive dairy farm with "animal welfare groups" to make the cows' lives as comfortable as possible.

[whalespace]

There are reports on facebook that the planners meeting scheduled for Monday has been cancelled. Not sure if that's good or not.

A "planning meeting" was cancelled. A consultation meeting for local residents.

This BBC "i" player link for Monday 15th March, gives related information ... skip to eight minutes forty seconds with the slider to hear the words "vegan" and "extreme". 08:40

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...ay_15_03_2010/

Sounds like "consultations" with local residents might be arranged on an individual basis .

[harpy]

Thanks whalespace. How democratic. You're not entitled to have an opinion unless you're a local resident, apparently.

The local resident that they interviewed mentioned that she didn't like the idea of cows as part of a factory either so evidently you don't have to be a vegan extremist to object to that. Would be interested to see the televised CIWF debate if they have one.

[harpy]

I just had an e-mail from the council to say the application has been amended, though not apparently in any radical way. I suppose that means we need to object again - haven't got time to look at the moment though.

[Vivien]

It says they will have a full time vet. Is ONE vet between 8,100 cows really viable?

[Mr Flibble]

Plans have now been put on hold, due to technical issues:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...airies-farming

[Johnstuff]

So glad it has been stopped for now.

"As dairy farmers, we have no doubt dairies like ours represent an economically viable, environmentally sustainable and ethically imperative future for the British dairy industry. We know this by going back to first principles – we will simply do whatever is best for the cows."

^ What BS!!!

[karen_87]

So glad it has been stopped for now.

"As dairy farmers, we have no doubt dairies like ours represent an economically viable, environmentally sustainable and ethically imperative future for the British dairy industry. We know this by going back to first principles – we will simply do whatever is best for the cows."

^ What BS!!!

Agreed, the farmers dont care about their cows! So glad this has been halted, I hope it is indefinately eventually

[Tish]

Hello, I know this is an older thread but was hearing about this on the news again today and it seems the company applying to run the 'mega-dairy' are still trying to push it through. It's so sad and people on the radio were debating it- there were some arguing against it in terms of animal welfare but quite a few just talking about how 'good' it is economically. It was on the jeremy vine show- http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...ornish_floods/ -first half hour or so of the programme.

I think the worry is that this is a real test case and if it does get approved then it will open the doors for more applications like this. I hope people will see the issues surrounding animal welfare and not be sold on issues of economics. I was just thinking as well that farmed animals would be hidden indoors and everything would be away from the public eye- a bit like slaughterhouses?

[Holly78]

I had a feeling that this wouldn't go away easily. :-( Hopefully people will be persuaded that it is a bad idea on the basis of the noise, pollution and simple lack of space even if they don't care about animal welfare. Why doesn't the government realise that dairy farming is simply not a profitable industry (despite being heavily subsidised) and the very fact they are having to resort to these measures to make money should tell them something - contrast the growing industry of soya/rice etc milk - and it is so much better for you too. Grrrrr!!!!

[leedsveg]

Don't think the 'new' government is all that bothered about animals. Headline news in last Saturday's Independent was that the government is ditching all the animal welfare reforms that Labour had going through. Am I surprised? Noooooooo!

lv

[Tish]

Yes, it's really sad that this issue has come back. It seems that:

"The farmers resubmitting the scheme said they had listened to animal welfare and environmental concerns.
They said they had scaled back the plans to 3,770 cows." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-11782153

This is from their original proposal of 8,100 cows. It doesn't sound like they've really 'listened' at all and are merely looking at any way to get this approved. I feel also that the articles I've seen on this so far are featuring those who propose the mega-dairy and biased in that they just report the company's reassurances without any challenges to their statements.

[Clueless Git]

Don't think the 'new' government is all that bothered about animals. Headline news in last Saturday's Independent was that the government is ditching all the animal welfare reforms that Labour had going through. Am I surprised? Noooooooo!

lv

'Lo LV, all

Just a thought ...

Animal welfare is diametricaly opposed, ultimately, to the interests of the land owning classes.

Math involved being, loosely, something like this: A population on a heavily animal inclusive diet requires roughly 8-10 times the amount of land to be used for crop growing than is needed to feed the same sized population of vegans.

Reducing the food animal population (which increasing animal welfare standards would inevitably acheive) reduces the demand for animal feed. That in turn reduces the amount of land needed to grow feed. That in turn reduces revenue for those who hoard huge amounts of land.

For that reason the more a government (lobby, whatever ...) represents the interests of the land owning classes the more highly it will be opposed to animal welfare reforms.



Someone, somewhere in the world, may also find this interesting ...

The land owning classes also have a secondary vested interest in making sure that as much land as possible is 'needed' for agricultural purposes. That being that the amount of land 'needed' for agricultural purposes directly affects the value of any non agricultural land they own.

Like if the land owners can justify that 80% of a countries land surface is 'needed' for agricultural purposes then all housing, industry etc .. has to bid against themselves/each other for the remaining 20%. That makes the 20% remaining land very expensive indeed.

The economic model in use there is actualy quite frightening. It works along the lines of making the absolute minimum amount of land available for human use so as the human population (more accurately the part of it that is not born owning land) have to work like slaves in order to afford the rabbit hutch sized houses in which most of us have to live. At the same time making sure that the hutch-dwellers eat as much meat as possible guarantees maximum revenue from the land that is being artificialy withheld from human use.

Basicaly this is a massive exploitation (arguably a deliberate wage/rent/mortgage enslavement?) of those humans born not owning sufficient land to house and feed themselves upon.

This bit makes me laugh, mind: It is the idiocy of those who buy into the lie of the 'neccesity' of huge dairy herds (etc) that ensures that they will spend their entire lifetimes working like dogs in cramped and overcrowded conditions being financialy 'milked' for every last drop that the land owners can squeeze out of them.

It's kinda like that those who think it is oh-so clever to milk animals to death are actualy creating the exact conditions by which they are 'milked' to death themselves.

[Tish]

That is very interesting Cupid Stunt-well put . It's just sad that these folk proposing the dairy don't think there's greater meaning in life than exploitation and profit.

[veganvoo]

Just under 4000 cows, kept indoors 90% of their lives, fed a high protien unnatural diet and kept in small pens while churning out massive ammounts of milk. SICK!

http://www.independent.co.uk/money/s...s-2138921.html

I heard about this dairy on the Jeremy Vine show last week, radio 2. Should still be available online.

Again the east of england has been chosen to accomodate another vile battery farm with proably more on the way. Living in Norfolk is great but chicken/pig/duck/geese and game farming is a thorn in its backside.

[Clueless Git]

T'is a sad sad thing indeed ...

Line in the article that caught my attention was this one ...

Who is to blame for all this? Step forward the supermarkets and, ultimately, the public.

With the indisputable truth that the whole stinking-rotten cycle is driven, ultimately, by the buyer I'm minded of the saying that goes along the lines of "All that is needed for evil to prevail is that good men (good women too, possibly ..??? ) do nothing".

Kinda like the buyers are the work colleagues, family, freinds ... even the sexual partners of most us 'good' people here?

I'm thinking that the very least we 'good' people can do, as we go about our daily lives, is simply NOT to keep our mouths shut.

[Tish]

Hello,
in case it is of any interest there is an early day motion coming up in parliament to register objection to the 'mega-dairy'. Here is a link to compassion in world farming which will show if your MP has signed it or not and enable you to email your MP-
http://www.ciwf.org.uk/dairy_edm

[Clueless Git]

Hello,
in case it is of any interest there is an early day motion coming up in parliament to register objection to the 'mega-dairy'. Here is a link to compassion in world farming which will show if your MP has signed it or not and enable you to email your MP-
http://www.ciwf.org.uk/dairy_edm

Nice one Tish!

I just emailed my MP. Decided it would be better not to edit the standard letter to say exactly what I think though ...

[Tish]

Decided it would be better not to edit the standard letter to say exactly what I think though ...

I know what you mean CS!

Hopefully enough MPs will sign it and the case against it will gain some momentum

[mutuality]

http://www.38degrees.org.uk/page/s/factoryfarm#petition

Petition hand-in date - 11th January.

Please consider adding your vote.

[Clueless Git]

Hmmm ...

My MP replied; Apparently he thinks that whatever part EDM's play in the democratic system is a waste of taxpayers money.

[mutuality]

Hmmmm....was he Mark Lancaster (Milton Keynes North) or Iain Stewart (MK South)?

Both are Tories.....hardly renown for standing up for animal rights.

Maybe, I'm the lucky one, Caroline Lucas (Brighton Pavilion) is a staunch defender of animal rights and will vote against this proposal

[rainbow]

I just saw this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12043359
It is obscene, and it made me cry. It is just horrific. I laughed out loud, an unhappy, ironic, mirthless laugh, at the line "At the end of the day although we're looking after animals and care passionately about them, this still is a business….".
I suppose that is the same kind of "caring passionately" that you get from wife-beaters and the like. If caring passionately for animals means raping them, murdering their children, imprisoning them, stealing their bodily fluids, torturing them by eg sticking tags through their ears, and any other manner of horrors, then I cannot even comprehend what their definition of an "unhappy" cow would be.
This is so obviously wrong. It's just plain wrong! How is it possible for others to see this and not be utterly appalled?

[harpy]

You can object to this proposal here http://viva.org.uk/campaigns/mega-dairy/object.html (where you write to the council)

and here http://www.ciwf.org.uk/cows_belong_i...s/take_action/ (where you write to your MP).

Some of us think that writing to one's MP may be more effective as local planners are only meant to take account of local objections, but why not do both?

By the way you may have already objected to the earlier version of this planning application but this is a new one so unfortunately earlier objections won't be taken into account by the council.

[rainbow]

Thanks harpy, that's useful to know. Am about to go away for the Xmas period so will try to remember to do this when I get back.

[greeny]

I have registered my objection on the planning website here:http://planningonline.n-kesteven.gov...=LC2TNQLL00U00. You have to register with the website first. But you can also send your objection to the email: planning@n-kesteven.gov.uk, or you can send a letter by post to here:
Mr N Feltham
Planning Officer
Planning Services
North Kesteven District Council
Kesteven Street
Sleaford
Lincolnshire NG34 7EF

Sample letter is given by VIVA herehttp://www.viva.org.uk/campaigns/meg....html#template

Please make sure to quote the planning application number 10/1397/FUL

We have until the 11 January to object. If this mega-dairy goes ahead it will open the floodgates for similar animal prisons across the UK. We have to act ASAP. Thanks everybody, pls help.

[Clueless Git]

Hmmmm....was he Mark Lancaster (Milton Keynes North) or Iain Stewart (MK South)?

Both are Tories.....hardly renown for standing up for animal rights.

Maybe, I'm the lucky one, Caroline Lucas (Brighton Pavilion) is a staunch defender of animal rights and will vote against this proposal

'Lo Mutuality

Yes matey, the 'Tory Boy' in question was Iain Stewart and I could kinda tell what a slime-ball he is as even a letter bearing his signature felt slippery to the touch.

I wouldn't have had much faith in the previous incumbent, Dr. Phylis Starkey, being much better mind ...

[Clueless Git]

I have registered my objection on the planning website here:http://planningonline.n-kesteven.gov...=LC2TNQLL00U00. You have to register with the website first. But you can also send your objection to the email: planning@n-kesteven.gov.uk, or you can send a letter by post to here:
Mr N Feltham
Planning Officer
Planning Services
North Kesteven District Council
Kesteven Street
Sleaford
Lincolnshire NG34 7EF

Sample letter is given by VIVA herehttp://www.viva.org.uk/campaigns/meg....html#template

Please make sure to quote the planning application number 10/1397/FUL

We have until the 11 January to object. If this mega-dairy goes ahead it will open the floodgates for similar animal prisons across the UK. We have to act ASAP. Thanks everybody, pls help.

Nice one Greeny

I have sent an email to them as well now.

[Tofukitty]

I just saw this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12043359
It is obscene, and it made me cry. It is just horrific. I laughed out loud, an unhappy, ironic, mirthless laugh, at the line "At the end of the day although we're looking after animals and care passionately about them, this still is a business….".
I suppose that is the same kind of "caring passionately" that you get from wife-beaters and the like. If caring passionately for animals means raping them, murdering their children, imprisoning them, stealing their bodily fluids, torturing them by eg sticking tags through their ears, and any other manner of horrors, then I cannot even comprehend what their definition of an "unhappy" cow would be.
This is so obviously wrong. It's just plain wrong! How is it possible for others to see this and not be utterly appalled?

My thoughts exactly. It's just sick.

[Tish]

Hello, was just wondering what the decision was on the 'mega-dairy' as the consultation period ended yesterday. It seems it'll not be decided till March. Here's hoping the petitions and local objections win through against this.

Here's a link to an article/news film on it from today- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-12162701

[veganvoo]

Thanks for the update Tish, now the waiting game. Are there any activists planning a visit if this gets the go ahead? I've never been involved in activism before but would be more than happy to start as this has tipped me over the edge!

[harpy]

This application has been withdrawn (though CIWF seems to think they have something else planned).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-12485392

Thanks to those of you who wrote to object.

[rainbow]

Thank goodness for that. Thanks for letting us know Harpy. If anything else is proposed, let's fight them all the way!

[veganvoo]

Great news! Of course, this does mean that another application is just around the corner for another site. I'll keep my ears open.

[mutuality]

This application has been withdrawn (though CIWF seems to think they have something else planned).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-12485392

Thanks to those of you who wrote to object.

From memory, I think I signed Viva's and 38 degrees. Interesting that Nocton Dairies said that they had withdrawn the application due to objections from The Environment Agency - they never seem to admit to defeat from people power and civil society! I'm wondering if they will go away, regroup and 'lick their wounds' and resurface and resubmit an application at some point in the future elsewhere.

[leedsveg]

From memory, I think I signed Viva's and 38 degrees. Interesting that Nocton Dairies said that they had withdrawn the application due to objections from The Environment Agency - they never seem to admit to defeat from people power and civil society! I'm wondering if they will go away, regroup and 'lick their wounds' and resurface and resubmit an application at some point in the future elsewhere.

Yup, I noticed that comment about the Environment Agency. So they're not bad losers then, haha?lol

Looking forward to them wasting even more money in the future.

Leedsveg

[mutuality]

Yup, I noticed that comment about the Environment Agency. So they're not bad losers then, haha?lol

Looking forward to them wasting even more money in the future.

Leedsveg

It just goes to show that online petitions do work and have a real impact and are the way forward in the future....hence the u-turn on the privatisation of the Forestry Commission. Two climbdowns in two days is a fantastic result, despite the fact that they were extremely unpopular proposals in the first place. Hats off to organisations like Viva, 38 Degrees and my own MP Caroline Lucas (a staunch defender of animal welfare and rights)