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Thread: grand national

  1. #1
    Daffodil's Avatar
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    Default grand national

    what does everyone think of it?

  2. #2

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    Default Re: grand national

    it's a disgraceful festival of enslavement and death.

    4 dead already and it's barely 2 days old.

  3. #3

    Default Re: grand national

    I hate it. No animals should be used for human entertainment or financial greed. Around 420 horses are raced to death every year, 40 have died at the Aintree meeting in the last decade, and still people go watch this hideous 'sport'.
    ~WE MUST NOT REFUSE WITH OUR EYES WHAT THEY MUST ENDURE WITH THEIR BODIES.~

  4. #4
    leedsveg
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    Default Re: grand national

    Not sport.

    lv

  5. #5
    karen_87's Avatar
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    Default Re: grand national

    Its awful, the horses are forced into racing when they would rather be free and running wild. Its such a waste of a beautiful life.

  6. #6
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: grand national

    I'm baffled that people who say they like animals will watch horse-racing, especially these dangerous races where horses keep getting killed.

    It seems to me a lot of the same people would be horrified at the idea of watching a bull-fight or hare coursing but what's the odds really?

    http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/CAMPAIGNS/horse/

  7. #7
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    Default Re: grand national

    Thats the problem though, 'animal people' don't make the connection between a fluffy panda and a KFC meal or a horse race.

    Animal Aids short film is very well put together by the way

  8. #8
    cobweb
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    Default Re: grand national

    I really don't think that horse racing is anything like dog-fighting/badger-baiting/hare coursing, etc.............
    The object of horse racing is anything but the injury or death of any animal or human involved! - and many of the horses do enjoy it.

    HOWEVER, i agree of course that it is shameless exploitation of animals and it unfortunately does lead to injuries, death, and destruction.

    As Karen said, most people can't seem to make the relevant connections though.

    I used to work in jump racing and i really did love the horses in my care (stable lads usually have 3 horses that they ride/groom/muck out/take racing, believe it or not the horses are usually well cared for). I gave it up when one that i was particularly attached to died after a bad fall. It's gut-wrenching .

    Humans are really weird .

    Got to say also - i don't bring my points up because i think racing is defensible, just trying to show a little bit of another perspective - i was a vegetarian 'animal lover' when i worked with racehorses. Obviously i didn't get the connection back then either .

  9. #9
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: grand national

    Sorry, I forgot you'd worked in jump racing CW so I wasn't having a go. I didn't use to make that connection either - I went to the races once myself, with people from work, when I worked in an office.

    Yes I suppose the fact that the deaths are accidental does make it seem different from when the death is the object of the exercise, but the net result is similar isn't it? The fact that the animals are often well cared for beforehand is certainly something (although they aren't always, according to Animal Aid) but of course it doesn't justify riding them in that reckless way. I have read bullfighting bulls and horses are also well cared for before the event and that doesn't justify bullfighting either.

    I am not as anti horse riding in general as some people here are but I don't think there is anything to be said for these dangerous races, or some of the practices apparently associated with them.

  10. #10
    BlackCats
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    Default Re: grand national

    Quote harpy View Post
    I'm baffled that people who say they like animals will watch horse-racing, especially these dangerous races where horses keep getting killed.
    I put a bet on the Grand National a few times while I was vegetarian even though I remember arguing with someone against greyhound racing.

  11. #11
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: grand national

    Yes, I oughtn't to be baffled really considering I went myself I suppose it's like being vegan in general, when you make the connection it's hard to un-make it again.

  12. #12
    cobweb
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    Quote harpy View Post
    Sorry, I forgot you'd worked in jump racing CW so I wasn't having a go. I didn't use to make that connection either - I went to the races once myself, with people from work, when I worked in an office.

    Yes I suppose the fact that the deaths are accidental does make it seem different from when the death is the object of the exercise, but the net result is similar isn't it? The fact that the animals are often well cared for beforehand is certainly something (although they aren't always, according to Animal Aid) but of course it doesn't justify riding them in that reckless way. I have read bullfighting bulls and horses are also well cared for before the event and that doesn't justify bullfighting either.

    I am not as anti horse riding in general as some people here are but I don't think there is anything to be said for these dangerous races, or some of the practices apparently associated with them.


    It's ok, Harpy, i didn't think you were having a dig at me atall .
    I just like people to get a clearer picture of things that they might otherwise have only read about from 'one side'.

    Sadly i feel that wherever animals are 'used' by humans there will always be elements of cruelty - even where the majority of people involved are not cruel, e.g with pet 'ownership'. I don't feel that just because an animal is well looked after it makes the 'use' of that animal ok, but sometimes i get a bit annoyed at assumptions made. I have (unfortunately) seen more shocking things at animal shelters where i've worked than i EVER did in the racing yards where i worked . In fact in one year at a certain charity, i can say, without a doubt, i saw much, much more death, suffering, and ignorance than i did in several years of horse racing . I feel quite angry, remembering it all actually. And i'm talking about the staff not the people dumping their animals there.

  13. #13
    cobweb
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    Quote harpy View Post
    Yes, I oughtn't to be baffled really considering I went myself I suppose it's like being vegan in general, when you make the connection it's hard to un-make it again.

    yep, it's a bit like a dot-to-dot picture i always think :smile:.
    Definitely took a while for me to join up the dots, personally, but once done they can't be undone.

  14. #14

    Default Re: grand national

    Animals die. Enough said.

  15. #15

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    Default Re: grand national

    but - we're vegans,not vegetarians.

    therefore - animals are used for human gain or pleasure. Enough said.

  16. #16

    Default Re: grand national

    ^ But so are pets.

    I have no problem with people having pets aslong as they are properly cared for, just as I have no issue if someone wanted a pet horse. Just as I have no problem with seeing eye dogs or hearing dogs, aslong as they're properly cared for and loved. I do object to horses being ridden and/or raced. I greatly object to any living thing being forced to take part in something that could, and often does, injure and kill them all in the name of 'fun' or for our benefit. Aslong as the animals are not harmed and are not killed, I don't mind. But feel free to enlighten me, I'm always interested in other views.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: grand national

    Surely the bottom line is that the horses have no choice in the way their lives are run, they're forced into racing and training to be something that they're not. Even if they're taken care of well, they're still forced into something that they cannot object to, which is very wrong. Lets say a horse could communicate with her about what they wanted, Im sure given the option they would say free me into the countryside and let me roam freely.

  18. #18
    cobweb
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    Default Re: grand national

    Quote karen_87 View Post
    Surely the bottom line is that the horses have no choice in the way their lives are run, they're forced into racing and training to be something that they're not. Even if they're taken care of well, they're still forced into something that they cannot object to, which is very wrong. Lets say a horse could communicate with her about what they wanted, Im sure given the option they would say free me into the countryside and let me roam freely.

    .................again, just like 'pets'

    and, unfortunately, that's not even the reality for most wild horses/ponies either
    http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sou...3sF7iehkjw6LfA

  19. #19
    cobweb
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    Default Re: grand national

    http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sou...T15z_wESY0aFWw


    ^ just for the record, the most fuss is made about racing, but Dressage and Show Jumping are just as bad, in fact i have heard many horrific show jumping tales - so many, i would venture to guess that cruelty is pretty commonplace amongst trainers .

  20. #20
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    Default Re: grand national

    The side topic of pets is a difficult subject. If the animal is treated well and given all that they need physically and emotionally then thats a good thing, but in fairness the pet would likely be happier in its natural environment.

  21. #21
    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
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    Default Re: grand national

    I don't like the idea of having 'pets'...............but I disagree that 'the pet would likely be happier in it's natural environment'. I look after a feral cat and her 6 kittens (although grown up now) they are NOT pets. If left to their natural environment she would have to put up with humans in the neighbourhood who do not like cats and would go to any lengths to get 'rid' of them.

    My sister has a colony of feral cats living near her...............the local yobs trap them and use them as bait to train their 'fighting' dogs. I don't think any animal would be happy in that situation.

    Until the whole world is vegan and share our values it is a sad fact that a lot of 'pets' are acutally better off than if they were out there in the wild so to speak.
    I like Sandra, she keeps making me giggle. Daft little lady - Frosty

  22. #22
    cobweb
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    Default Re: grand national

    The trouble is that there is no such thing as a 'natural environment' for many animals, including most (if not all) of the 'domesticated' animals. Racehorses, for one example, have been selectively bred over generations and are quite 'high maintenance'. I'm not atall sure how they would survive 'in the wild' so to speak.

    It's such a complex discussion really, which is why i wanted to present a slightly different view, from someone with experience of racing. It's really not that i'm trying to say that racing is ok, more that it's wrong to single out any one set of people as 'bad'. The question about use/exploitation of animals goes way beyond horse racing.

  23. #23

    Default Re: grand national

    Quote karen_87 View Post
    The side topic of pets is a difficult subject. If the animal is treated well and given all that they need physically and emotionally then thats a good thing, but in fairness the pet would likely be happier in its natural environment.
    I agree with that, which is why I adopt pets from rescue centers. Most domesticated animals no longer have natural enviroments though, which is very sad.

    I don't like horse riding at all. It makes me sad that I used to ride horses and even more sad that my sister has worked with race horses, owns a horse and does dressage with it. However it threw her off the other day and she's broken her ankle and is now selling it. I feel bad for the horse.

  24. #24
    cobweb
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    Default Re: grand national

    To be honest i have really conflicting and confusing feelings about horse riding. It's something that was a massive part of 'me' for years. I never felt like the horses i rode objected to being ridden, but then i also think that's not really the point, is it?. So i don't ride atall anymore, but i do miss that horse-human interaction sometimes.

  25. #25

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    Default Re: grand national

    This thread is really interesting, I've just become vegan this week, and I work at a riding school and ride horses all the time. It is a huge part of my life and I love it, but it is sad that the horses cant live more naturally, and I can think of ways I would change how they are kept if only I was in charge hehe! I think riding schools that are well run are important because they teach the kids about how to act around animals, to respect them and be responsible towards them.
    As for horse-racing, I researched the industry for a project I did at school last year and I was shocked- the amount of animals that are destroyed, raced to death, pumped full of drugs... its very sad.
    oh, and my dog was a rescue dog, had her for 7 years now, she is so happy and healthy with us, before she had been a stray who had run away from her abusive owner. I would never buy a dog though.
    xxx
    We ourselves feel that what we are doing is just a drop in the ocean. But the ocean would be less because of that missing drop.

  26. #26

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    Default Re: grand national

    What do I think?

    Sickening really. Horses continue to be injured and killed, yet so many people don't make the connection, as someone said above.

    Thank God I'm in Italy and haven't been bombarded with it all; the only reason I was actually reminded of it was by listening to the BBC on broadband..

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