Vegan laws

[Yuna]

If we were to make vegan laws like the jewish kosher laws, what would you add? I'll start.

no walking animals
no swimming animals
no creeping or crawling animals
no milk from animals
no eggs from animals

Can eat:
grains
beans
legumes
fruit
vegetables
nuts
seeds

[Yuna]

optional:
natural
organic

not recommended:
conventional

[Johnstuff]

If we were to make vegan laws like the jewish kosher laws, what would you add? I'll start.

no walking animals
no swimming animals
no creeping or crawling animals
no milk from animals
no eggs from animals

Can eat:
grains
beans
legumes
fruit
vegetables
nuts
seeds

So birds are ok then?

"no animal products" does me quite well

[harpy]

Hmm, interesting idea. I think you need a fairly wide description like:

avoids eating: anything made by, with or from an animal, or with its secretions
happy to eat: plants

The trouble with trying to list individual categories is that it's difficult to get a comprehensive list and then people will say "oh, honey IS ok then" :-/ I like to include "avoids" as that gets round the objection that picking plants involves hurting insects, and so on which we can't really control unfortunately - we just do our best.

[leedsveg]

If we're going to make it like Jewish kosher laws, we'll have to have some wacky rules like:

You cannot eat a beef tomato at the same meal as you drink soya milk.
Some strains of locust beans can be eaten, others cannot.
Wild mushrooms must be restrained before being ritually 'slaughtered'.
etc etc

lv

[harpy]

Heheh. Well I never eat any vegetables that have cloven hooves but don't chew the cud or vice versa so I think I'm already OK there.

I vaguely remember reading that vegan food is automatically kosher (if prepared in a 100% vegan kitchen presumably) - can that be true?

[leedsveg]

Heheh. Well I never eat any vegetables that have cloven hooves but don't chew the cud or vice versa so I think I'm already OK there.

I vaguely remember reading that vegan food is automatically kosher (if prepared in a 100% vegan kitchen presumably) - can that be true?

Hi harpy

This is what I've found out about vegan establishments:

A vegan restaurant would not have a hard time getting kosher certification. However, as long as there is no such certification one should not eat there [if intending to maintain kashrut].
There are many reasons why a strictly vegan establishment requires kosher certification. Here are a few of them:

1. It is possible for a minute quantity of animal products to be included in a vegan-certified food. According to the Vegan Society, an outfit which licenses vegan foods, "vegan products must, as far as is possible and practical, be entirely free from animal involvement." Furthermore they state, "Animal products are sometimes used in instances that are not immediately obvious."
2. All utensils used to prepare kosher food, as well as countertops, ovens, etc., must be kosher. Meaning, if they were previously used for non-kosher foods, they must be koshered before being used for kosher food preparation.
3. Wine and grape juice are not kosher unless they are certified kosher (see Wine and Grape Products). Even if the restaurant doesn't have a wine list, many dishes include wine or grape juice in their ingredients.
4. Certain foods must be cooked or baked by a Jew in order to be kosher

leedsveg

[harpy]

Interesting, thanks leedsveg.

I was mainly asking out of academic interest. However when I'm trying to persuade restaurants etc to make things vegan I sometimes point out that vegan food is acceptable to other groups as well, like the dairy-intolerant, and it would have been good to add kosher to the list. Doesn't sound as if I'd better though!

[Yuna]

no flying animals
no secretions from animals

Haha- thanks for all of the enlightening advice and witty replies.

[leedsveg]

And of course it's not just the food. Observant Jews would not wear a garment made out of a mix of cotton and wool. And all the laws to do with what constitutes 'work' that cannot be undertaken on the Sabbath such as switching a light on, or lighting a fire.

I'm just glad that Donald Watson in 1944 didn't write down down hundreds of "vegan rules" to be followed to the letter by "observant vegans", because sixty-six years later, we'd still be arguing just what the 'fine print' meant, "Ok this porkless pork-pie would seem to be vegan but on the other hand... blah blah blah".

My admiration to all those Jewish vegans out there who are observant and keep to strict kosher laws.

leedsveg

[leedsveg]

Hi Yuna

How do you feel about animals working for us, such horses pulling carts, or insects pollinating fruit trees?

Welcome to Vegan Forum by the way. Are you in NYC?

leedsveg

[Yuna]

Hi Leedsveg! Thank you. I'm close to NYC. I'm in Long Island.

I think animals working for us is slavery in general. Maybe some cases are true companion animals.

I think rules are good sometimes so I'm clear what's expected of me.

More laws/rules:

No cooking or eating with utensils nonvegan food has touched until it has been veganized (washed etc.)
No cooking in animal fat.
No insects.
No slithering animals
No wearing clothes or shoes made from animal products, unless hand me down. (Thanks to Leedsveg for that idea.)

[rrqu]

What's your problem with walking animals? The leash is there for their protection, dogs love chasing cars haha. My dog LOVES to go for walks.

[leedsveg]

Another Vegan Law:

ColesLaw (but only if made with vegan mayo)

lv

[Yuna]

Another Vegan Law:

ColesLaw (but only if made with vegan mayo)

lv

Haha!

[Yuna]

What's your problem with walking animals? The leash is there for their protection, dogs love chasing cars haha. My dog LOVES to go for walks.

I'm not fully decided on pets. Unless you're saving it from starvation, I wouldn't want to be chained all of the time or kept in the house all of the time.

[Stillwater]

Apparently a Jewish Pharisee Rabbi, some 2,000 years ago, was asked whether he could explain the entire Torah while standing on one leg. He lifted a leg, and said something to effect of "Do not do to others what you would not want them to do to you. That is the heart of the Torah - everything else is just commentary", then put his leg back down.

I like that. I also like to think of veganism that way too: a single principle that guides your life, rather than a massive set of laws to keep track of.

[imblissful]

This is a good thread. I like it. My rule would simply be: No animal products unless absolutely unavoidable.
For instance: I bought a new vehicle in 2005 and it had a leather stearing wheel, having it removed would be expensive and time consuming, so I show it off. My son has asked me several times to buy a cover for it to hide it. My response: "An animal gave it's life to be on my stearing wheel, I will honor it by not covering it up. I am not ashamed of my stearing wheel, I am ashamed that a designer thought that this particular model needed to have an animal sacrificed for it's looks."

[Foodinsite]

If we were to make vegan laws like the jewish kosher laws, what would you add? I'll start.

no walking animals
no swimming animals
no creeping or crawling animals...

How's about quite simply: "NAP" ...No Animal Products"

[Stillwater]

How's about quite simply: "NAP" ...No Animal Products"

I like the short acronym. Though that leaves out products tested on animals, cruel circuses, bull-fighting, and chocolate made with slave child labour.

What about just "Ahimsa" (non-harm)?

[Yuna]

I like the short acronym. Though that leaves out products tested on animals, cruel circuses, bull-fighting, and chocolate made with slave child labour.

What about just "Ahimsa" (non-harm)?

Thank you.

[MCMLXXXVI]

-

[emzy1985]

* Avoid all animal products and those tested on animals
* Educate others (in whatever this form takes for you - cooking amazing food, being the picture of health, demos etc etc)
* Adopt shelter animals
* Get as many tattoos as possible.... oh no wait!

[Andy_T]

Interesting question ... what about insects (bees) for pollinating plants?

I was under the impression that without bees (domestic ones nowadays that the wild ones have been pushed back) no fruits would be pollinated, so we would not have any crops and starvation would be the result (which is also one reason why recent problems with bees have potentially grave consequences).

So does anybody have a more enlightened view on this issue?

Best regards,
Andy

[nn]

Good thoughts, Andy.

Because of the completely irresponsible behavior of beekeepers in the last 50 years, there is a monopoly on pollination (which is increasing).

Yes, honeybees do pollinate crops but not as much as the Honey Industry (http://www.honey.com/nhb/industry/) would have you believe.
Honeybees only pollinate as much as 22% of all plants and they are not exactly efficient at it as they mingle with a variety of plants which doesn't ensure the pollen is transferred to the right plant.
There are better pollinators than the honeybee, just as the name implies, its main goal in its life is to make honey (for winter, its young and the Queen, rather than for our consumption, of course!). Although the increasing presence of the honeybees is actually harming the other pollinators, such as other insects, birds and native pollinators. These honeybees take a majority of the nectar which creates competition and is damaging to the other pollinators survival.

So this combination of nectar domination, use of insecticides, mono cropping (yes, Monsanto, that's you!) and habitat destruction (e.g. through raising other animals for human consumption) is creating fierce competition under which other pollinators have no chance to survive.

The beekeepers ('honeystealers' is what I suggest they be renamed) claim they are the solution for pollination, but if you've been reading, you'll know this is just not true. As in all animal agriculture, including the Honey Industry, making more money is the prime goal, nothing else.

Check out this website for more information - http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm

[nn]

As far as vegan laws go, I wonder who would enforce the laws? Our conscience should of course, but for the rogues of society will we see the rise of the Vegan Police (Scott Pilgrim anyone?)