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Thread: Is soya bad for men?

  1. #1

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    Default Is soya bad for men?

    Hi guys,

    I have around a litre of soya milk everyday and recently got told by some cow's milk drinker that soya is bad for males. Does anyone know anymore about this?

    Will

  2. #2
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    Hello. There are a few threads about the health implications of soya already if you look at this section of the forum. My (non-expert) feeling is that moderate amounts are likely to be OK - not sure what I'd call moderate but a litre a day of anything seems quite a lot!

    I think the concern is the hormone-like effect of a type of chemical called phytoestrogen. There is some information about the pros and cons of that here: http://e.hormone.tulane.edu/learning...estrogens.html

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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    I typed 'dangers of soy' in google and got 262.000 results. I typed 'benefits of soy' and got 302.000 results. ('Dangers of milk' got 11.000.000 results!) So who should we believe? The sites and studies showing the dangers of soy might be sponsored by the dairy industry and those about the benefits by the soy industry.
    I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Soy has some good points and some bad points. I do think however that a litre of soymilk a day is a bit too much. I think it is a good idea to try to replace some of the soy milk by for example rice, oat or nut milk (you can make these yourself if you want).

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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    Thanks guys,

    Im keen for Almond milk too

  5. #5

    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    My boyfriend loves soy milk, tofu etc. His mum tells him it's bad for him, his view is that asian men, and others, has been consuming soy for years and they all seem perfectly fine. Aslong as you don't have too much you'll be fine. Same with anything really.

    Why do you drink a litre a day? Drink something else.

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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    I have loads of soya, in tea, coffee, cereal, hot chotolate and I love soya burgers n tofu too!

    If there was a risk I would think pregnant women and young babies/children would be most at risk?

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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    I think the risk is supposedly to male fertility. I think all tests done so far have been inconclusive. My boyfriend first found out about this yesterday, he's into bodybuilding and takes protein shakes, I suggested he use pea or soya protein instead of whey. He then came back with a couple of articles about the dangers of soy, I was like "been there, read it" and showed him other articles that refute soya dangers and that point out the benefits, and pointed out the Asia/ population despite consumption of soya, plus I got him some body building articles about soya protein being positive. It ended with him saying oh well who cares and only god knows, and he has decided to stick with whey because he knows it works .

    Despite my skepticism about so called soya dangers, until there's any conclusive evidence I'd still not recommend very large quantities of soya for men in particular and err on the side of caution.

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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    People obviously think a Litre is a lot. It is less than 2 pints.. A carton from the supermarket is a litre. Its well easy to drink this amount in a day. 1 latte, 2 cups of tea, 1 bowl of cereal and a glass of soya all easily adds to a litre. I am currently at work with a litre carton of Oatly I bought from Sainsbury's in Camden! Added vitamins and Calcium.. Its nice but doesnt beat So Good Soya!

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    The only people I've know who had issue with over consumption of soy, were bodybuilders. As tofu, and soymilk and the like have lots of protein they seem to be a goo source for bulking up.

    One kid in particular ate about 6-10 pounds of tofu a day, eventually his hormones got visibly wacky. I'll spare you the details.

    But yeah. I'd imagine you'd be fine. Not that my opinion is worth all that much.

  10. #10
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    It just sounds a lot - we only get through about 0.5 litre a week - but I can't see any studies that indicate what (if any) level might be problematic. There are a couple of studies referenced on the Wikipedia article about phytoestrogens which you could check out, but it sounds as if (as I've heard before) soy extracts in fast food are likely to be more of a problem than relatively unprocessed products like soy milk.

    If you've been consuming it at that level for a while you might have noticed yourself if it was having dramatic effects on your hormones, and you haven't mentioned any

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    Jeez it takes me the best part of a week to get through a litre.

    Weren't some of the more pervasive 'soya is bad for you' arguments made by those with a vested interest in dairy? I'm sure I saw something recently in the Guardian Online.

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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    Quote Glen Lambert View Post
    Jeez it takes me the best part of a week to get through a litre.

    Weren't some of the more pervasive 'soya is bad for you' arguments made by those with a vested interest in dairy? I'm sure I saw something recently in the Guardian Online.
    Wouldn't suprise me in the slightest! The hormones, anti-biotics, fat and cholesterol in cow's milk would be much worse I bet!

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    Default Re: Soya milk for men


  14. #14

    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    It takes me aaaages to get through a litre of soy milk. It usually goes off before I finish it T__T;

  15. #15
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    I agree that a lot of anti-soya material seems to emanate from the meat and dairy industries (mainly in the U.S. I think). However that doesn't mean that large amounts of soya couldn't have undesirable side effects - the fact that there is some evidence that soya is beneficial in menopause suggests to me that it could have some quasi-hormonal properties that might affect people who aren't menopausal women differently, if you see what I mean.

    Still, as we don't know what constitutes a large amount that's not terribly helpful Probably as long as you have a varied diet with lots of different unprocessed veg and so on you're on the right lines.

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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    A lot of anything is probably bad for you.

  17. #17
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    We get through about 10 litres of soya milk a week between 3 of us in our house! . Plus a load of tofu, soy sausages, yoghurts, etc. The only thing I'm vaguely concerned about is that my son's Thyroid function is a bit low, apparently, and I have read links between high Soya consumption and Hypothyroidism. I still think that it has to better than dairy products which are full of artificial hormones .

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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    I am starting to make some more variation in my foods concerning soy. There are oat,rice and other 'milks' available ( I made my own oat-milk today but it needs a bit of tweaking).
    You can also make yoghurt of those other 'milks' just search how to make yoghurt yourself but substitute the milk for a grain or nut milk and the yoghurt for soy-(or other non dairy)yoghurt.
    Seitan and falafel can be made too (or you can buy them at stores)
    I don't think soy is poison or something but variation is a good thing and better safe then sound.

  19. #19
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    Yeah I LOVE seitan, I must have a go at making it myself.

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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    Quote cobweb View Post
    We get through about 10 litres of soya milk a week between 3 of us in our house! . Plus a load of tofu, soy sausages, yoghurts, etc. The only thing I'm vaguely concerned about is that my son's Thyroid function is a bit low, apparently, and I have read links between high Soya consumption and Hypothyroidism. I still think that it has to better than dairy products which are full of artificial hormones .
    Yeah I have a low thyroid function and am on 200 thyroxine a day.... Maybe there is a link here !

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    I've made some almond milk which was pretty good. Couldn't quite get all the little bits of almond out, but it wasn't so bad. Then I mixed a vegan chocolate syrup in with it Someone told me to mix a banana in with it too. Gives it a little more flavour, and a thicker texture. I couldn't notice much of a difference between the taste of chocolate milk, and the taste of almond chocolate milk It's just a hassle to try and make...

  22. #22
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    There is some evidence that soya consumption may affect thyroid function if you don't get enough iodine, according to this review article

    http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs...hy.2006.16.249

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    Whatever happened to water! Water is much better for you, Woolley. Personally I think that you drink far too much soy milk. My flatmates don't even have that much moo milk!

    Being a guy too, I drink one litre of soy milk in around 2-3 days but I also drink fresh orange juice with lunch/dinner (to help non-haem iron absortion) and anywhere from 4 to 6 litres of water per day. There is so much other drinks you could have. Diversify! After all, that is the secret to success on a vegan 'diet'.
    "The unexamined life is not worth living" Socrates

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    According to dietitians in Canada, the recommended serving for "milk and alternatives (soy milk)" is at 2 cups/500ml for adults 19-50. So, yes you are drinking more soy milk than recommended. (http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/fn-an/food-gu...besoin-eng.php)

    So if you're drinking a litre a day + soy in other forms (tofu, faux meats, soy cheese, additives in foods, etc), you could possibly be consuming too much soy. I'd vary it up a bit.
    Peace, love, and happiness.

  25. #25
    Hemlock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    Corum doesn't drink it as he doesn't want man boobs!!! I drink loads as it's good for the menopause. I think that tells you something :-o
    Silent but deadly :p

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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    Quote nn View Post
    Whatever happened to water! Water is much better for you, Woolley. Personally I think that you drink far too much soy milk. My flatmates don't even have that much moo milk!

    Being a guy too, I drink one litre of soy milk in around 2-3 days but I also drink fresh orange juice with lunch/dinner (to help non-haem iron absortion) and anywhere from 4 to 6 litres of water per day. There is so much other drinks you could have. Diversify! After all, that is the secret to success on a vegan 'diet'.
    Yeah cheers for the concern mate, I do drink a load of other stuff as well.. I never said Soya milk is my only source of liquid intake.. I drink around 4 pints of water a day as well. Well I do not want man boobs so I am sticking to oatmilk now.

    Cheers for all your opinions guys.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    So how much of that litre of soya milk is water? Serious question.

    I don't drink soya milk because I can get much more soya into my body with a spoon.
    Problematic is waking someone whom pretends to sleep.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    It says 6% soya on my carton. So I would say at least 90% is water and somewhere around 60g of soya in the litre.
    "Danger" could be my middle name but it's "John"

  29. #29

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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    Well I drink soya milk because I like it, not because im trying to get a load of soya in my body!

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    60 grammes doesn't sound so bad.

    I wonder how much of the "effecting" substances in soya can be denatured by cooking.

    I've got a photo of me from when I was the fittest I have ever been, when I was eating about 150 grammes of soy protein isolate at least every other day. I shan't post it because the previous picture I posted was minimally clothed, but man boobs were not a problem.

    I am not ignoring the data, and now I eat mostly sprouted lentils [hope they are ok].
    I still think the 'milk' drinking thing might be a bit of a hangover... and 'soya water' makes me fart... along with most of the rest of my diet.

    PS I just read some fright about carrageenan, but I didn't follow it up because I don't drink it.
    Problematic is waking someone whom pretends to sleep.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    Quote cobweb View Post
    We get through about 10 litres of soya milk a week between 3 of us in our house! . Plus a load of tofu, soy sausages, yoghurts, etc. The only thing I'm vaguely concerned about is that my son's Thyroid function is a bit low, apparently, and I have read links between high Soya consumption and Hypothyroidism. I still think that it has to better than dairy products which are full of artificial hormones .
    I try to take kelp tablets for iodine as vegan food isn't fortified with it. I believe iodine is added to animal feedstuff which of course wouldn't effect us.

    Woolley, I don't think you use too much soya milk. My family would use quite a lot of it too. I think a lot of these 'findings' are to be taken with a pinch of salt................I don't like soya milk but have been told my B12 is low and soya milk is fortified with B12. So, I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. Doctors would have us believe 'everything' is bad for us, to be honest I've stopped listening to them.
    I like Sandra, she keeps making me giggle. Daft little lady - Frosty

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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    Im with you on that one Sandra x

  33. #33
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    Default Soy/Estrogen and Men

    My Family and I (hubby and daughter) have been vegan for a little over a year. In that time My husband and I have both lost weight, but recently, I assume from over eating during the holidays, he has gained a few pounds back. We have both also noticed that his chest (that is to say, his breasts) have grown noticeably. This isn't uncommon in his family as they are all obese, and all the men have enlarged breasts. But my husband has always had a muscular physique, so the small weight gain from the holiday indulgences shouldn't have this effect on him.

    He wondered allowed last night if it might be the result of his increased intake of soy since becoming vegan.

    He read an article in Men's Health about a man who developed enlarged breasts in his 50's and a whole other slew of health issues. They eventually "linked" these problems to his soy consumption. He discovered he was lactose intolerant and switched to soy milk drinking about 3 quarts a day. The doctor told him it was because of the estrogen in soy.

    This seems like an isolated incident to me. That his experience was unique perhaps because of his age, and the great quantities he was consuming, and maybe because he was predisposed in some other way.

    I know there are other vegan men out there, and they can't all have this issue. He really doesn't eat that much soy. Despite being vegan, he still doesn't eat a well balanced diet. He doesn't eat tofu, and tempeh only on occasion, he doesn't drink soy milk, only in the things I use it in for cooking, he doesn't eat any soy yogurt or icecream. And we don't buy many boxed or prepared foods, a lot of which contain soy as a filler.

    We will look into it further, because it is an issue that needs to be addressed, whether soy/estrogen is the root of it or not, but I was just curious if anyone has any experience or knowledge that might be helpful in this situation.
    Last edited by Korn; Jan 8th, 2011 at 09:22 AM. Reason: This was the first post in a similar thread

  34. #34

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    Default Re: Soy/Estrogen and Men

    Does your husband workout? I drink soy milk and eat tofu products and definately don't have man-boobs. I do exercise daily to keep everything firmed up. Just an FYI, i am 53.

  35. #35
    Bad Buddhist Clueless Git's Avatar
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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    Hmmmm ...

    My son (16, vegetarian but not vegan) has just taken to body building. He is using one of those protein shake drinks mixed with soy milk in quite large quantities for qabout a week now.

    I noticed that as well as th soy milk the mix itself has 'high isoflavine soy isolates' (i think thats what it said) very high on the ingredient list.

    With that on top of whatever soy products we use anyway his total soy intake must be pretty high right now.

    I will keep an eye on that and report back immediately if he begins mincing around the house saying stuff like "Oooo, look at the dust in here!" and "shut that door!".

    And on a slightly different note ...

    I saw a graph once. It was in an article about the 'mysterious' and rapid dropping of the sperm count in human males over the past 50 years or so.

    The graph mapped the drop in sperm count against two other factors. Cow milk consumption per capita and the increasing use of hormones (estrogen, I think) being fed to the dairy herds to boost their production of milk.

    Obviously the increasing consumption of milk and the increasing use of femal hormones both went up together as that was simply increasing production in order to meet increasing demand.

    As regards the 'how many tadpoles in your todger' count .. As the line marking increased consumption of increasingly female hormone laced cows milk being consumed by males went up that the tadpole count went down.

    Methinks that the dairy industry knoweth full well what it doth and may be simply accusing its 'competitor' of the very crime (hormonaly effeminising males) that it knoweth full well it doth itself.
    All done in the best possible taste ...

  36. #36
    VagabondVegan
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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    Only thing I've read is about soya milk containing a vegetable hormone in many ways the same as estrogen which obviously fucks with the normal testosterone driven male body up and hormone imbalance leads to osteoporosis but there is also chemicals in soya that significantly reduce chances of getting osteoporosis so...I duno :P seems to even out from what I've heard

  37. #37
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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    The dairy industry loses money when you purchase soy milk instead of cows milk. They must be losing quite a bit, because it's popular enough to see in most grocery stores... If people believe everything they hear and start to purchase... almond milk instead, it wouldn't be too long before there would be "research" about the adverse health effects of that aswell. I keep my soy intake low because there is a plant based form of estrogen in it, but a cup of soy milk here or there and a few tofu burgers and sausages wont hurt me Not to the extent that real milk and meat would have.

  38. #38
    VagabondVegan
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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    To be honest I see getting plant estrogen as a bonus hehe :P

  39. #39
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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    The jury is still out on phytoestrogen's effect on men, but for every WPF dairy industry funded article saying soya is bad for health/ men there are plenty of articles saying the opposite:

    http://www.fertstert.org/article/S00...966-2/abstract
    http://www.clinsci.org/cs/100/0613/cs1000613.htm
    http://jn.nutrition.org/content/134/5/1220S.long
    http://www.ergo-log.com
    http://www.newscientist.com/blog/sho...m-and-men.html

    If you are worried about it, reduce your soya intake. Switch wholly or partially to oat, rice or almond milk, and keep an eye on the research to see if there are any more conclusive results.

  40. #40

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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    Hi,
    I haven't listen any thing about soya that if it is bad for sexuality for men...
    Do you have any proof or study to prove it...??

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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    I wouldn't be too afraid about that.
    Another plant that has a much higher pythoestrogen content then soy is ... hops. You all know what is made from hops ... right ... beer.

    So until you hear strong evidence that males should not drink beer in order to stay fertile, bring on the tofu...

    Best regards,
    Andy

  42. #42
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    Default Re: Soya milk for men

    I have done lots of research into this from the infant view, I wont go into all of the reasons as I dont want to go on about all of that on here but from the valid and balanced research I have found out the following. If a small child is going to be bought up on a vegan diet and for some reason is not able to continue with his or her mothers milk some vegan mothers have opted to go for a veggie diet / baby milk.

    The reason being, there are some scientific papers showing evidence of a risk with soy and infants, you can easily look these up yourself without me copy and pasting them all. I know from other parents who are vegan and from our own experiences this is a hard choice and line to take but there is a plus side, you know it is not forever and that your child will soon be on a vegan diet full time, which is in reality is far quicker than me or my partner went vegan. I was a veggie at 11 and a Vegan at 19 so if my child becomes vegan at 1 or 2 he is still light years ahead of either if us.

    The reasons why we had to move him onto a veggie baby milk will remain ours, but the we know from very strong scientific and balanced evidence we will are reducing the risk of a soy allergy and that is the last thing we want him to have when he will eventually be on a full time vegan diet with us.

    I think it is up to each person to read the facts and make a balanced and informed choice on what they feel comfy with. Sadly in the UK there is no vegan baby milk so the alternatives which are safe (despite what others have tried to convince me) are not there. The pythoestrogen in soy is one of a few things to consider when giving it to very young, science and medical evidence says not before 18 months unless left with no choice.

    For adults our risk is much lower regarding the pythoestrogen.
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