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Thread: Question on veganism and judging others (or lack thereof)

  1. #1
    Greener
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    Default Question on veganism and judging others (or lack thereof)

    I'll start off by saying that I'm working on becoming vegan. I've given away my hot dogs and mac & cheese to fellow college students and I scour my local Grocery Outlet weekly for deals on Yves and Tofurkey. I gave up milk, eggs, and cheese last spring. The food isn't an issue for me. I've never been a meat-hungry kind of guy, and vegan alternatives to the rest (I swear by Daiya - I refuse to use anything else on bagel pizzas) suit me just fine.

    It's more mindset-type-things that I'm working on.

    I'm on board with the "lifestyle." I really have no good reason to NOT be vegan. And when you look at it, nobody really does (I mean, yeah, there are various health things), but if you sit someone down and explain about factory farms and hand them the literature and all, they won't be able to come up with any response better than "but I love bacon."

    Another part of being vegan says that if less meat/dairy/animal products are being purchased, then less will be produced, therefore saving animals. Economically wonderful. Which also means that this is not meant to be a 'secret' lifestyle. Others should listen and get on board.
    Yes, "every vote counts" and every vegan counts, so it's not like an entire massive community needs to be involved (although it would certainly help) to make just a fraction of a difference.

    But.

    If being vegan is such an obvious choice, and being vegan means that you're helping the planet more than most, how is it possible to not look down on others for not being vegan?
    Vegans are vegan for many reasons, but the top being that vegans are saving animals from harm (correct me if I'm wrong). Vegans more than recognize the issue; they're doing something about it. Therefore, people who recognize the issue but don't do anything about it are, what, terrible people? Cruel? Ignorant?

    If you have a friend or family member who, even after reading brochures and books and pamphlets and websites and watching videos, still orders that Red Robin burger every week, how is it possible to not lose respect for them? Or, conversely, if you maintain your same level of respect for them, how can you be a 'true' vegan?

    So finally, can I be vegan and still maintain the same level of respect for my omnivorous friends?


    (Thanks for reading, and thanks for your responses!)

  2. #2
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question on veganism and judging others (or lack thereof)

    So finally, can I be vegan and still maintain the same level of respect for my omnivorous friends?
    That's entirely up to you.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

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    ♥♥♥ Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question on veganism and judging others (or lack thereof)

    You can also pretend to be tolerant of them to their face. But inside your mind, you can be screaming obscenities at them for ordering that hamburger. As long as we act civil towards non-vegans, that's good enough. I don't think we truly have to be totally judgment free.
    Peace, love, and happiness.

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    Bearshark's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question on veganism and judging others (or lack thereof)

    Quote Tigerlily View Post
    You can also pretend to be tolerant of them to their face. But inside your mind, you can be screaming obscenities at them for ordering that hamburger. As long as we act civil towards non-vegans, that's good enough. I don't think we truly have to be totally judgment free.
    I agree, Tigerlily. I know that people who aren't vegans are still generally good people, so I try my best to think of them as potential-future-vegans. I;ve never met anyone who been fully presented with the information on animal products and not gone vegan (thankfully) but in that case, I think I'd act tolerant to their face and be angry and annoyed and disappointed inside, and try and ease them towards it with my yummy food etc.

    I've lost a huge amount of respect to a number of people I know for determinedly ignoring anything to do with animal products when I mention it, and get real argumentative with me, when I had previously thought they were open-minded. I know why they don't want to know, but that doesn't really help restore the loss of respect.

    I think it's up to the individual, if you are ok with respecting their ability to choose what they want to eat and be a part of because it is their choice to make then it doesn't make you not vegan (in my opinion), as long as you aren't actively condoning their choice.

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    Default Re: Question on veganism and judging others (or lack thereof)

    Quote Greener View Post
    So finally, can I be vegan and still maintain the same level of respect for my omnivorous friends?


    (Thanks for reading, and thanks for your responses!)
    No harm in trying! I personally find it quite difficult but I appreciate the parts of my friends that are totally unrelated to diet. I know some vegans I don't like for whatever reason, and these reasons aren't apparent with my meat eater friends...
    The greatest mistake is to do nothing because you can only do a little.

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    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question on veganism and judging others (or lack thereof)

    It's a slight difference between respecting a human and respecting his viewpoints.

    Sometimes, when I wonder how people can keep stuffing themselves with all the animal products they do, I usually remind myself that I come from the same background. Also, seeing how easy it is to influence people (kids in particular), I can't help but thinking that people have no focus on lifestyle, ethics etc for a reason: their past.

    That reason isn't a valid reason to keep doing it, but it's a valid explanation of why they do what they do.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  7. #7
    Greener
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    Default Re: Question on veganism and judging others (or lack thereof)

    Thank you everyone for your responses!
    I've been mulling this over since, and have had similar discussions with classmates, and I feel a lot better about it.
    And I just found a recipe for vegan peppermint bark, so I think I'm set.

    Any other words of wisdom (in terms of mindstates/conversations/philosophy) for a new vegan?

  8. #8
    nattiejeanne
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    Default Re: Question on veganism and judging others (or lack thereof)

    Being vegan is not "such an obvious choice" in a culture where meat is treated like a staple food at every meal and fruits/vegetables an afterthought. A lot of omnivores may be appalled by what goes on in factory farms and then see it as a necessary evil. It's served at every meal and they tell us it's a good source of protein, so it must be good for you.

    A girl who inspired me to go vegan is one of the most gentle, non-judgmental human beings on earth who adheres to her beliefs without militantly pushing them upon other people. There was a time when I moved away and hadn't seen her in about 2 years. She came to visit me one day for lunch/hanging out and I suggested this burger joint. She politely asked me if they offered vegan alternatives and I apologized profusely for forgetting she was vegan. She laughed it off, told me it was not a problem and was actually glad I forgot because it meant that she didn't come off as one of those vegans. To me, it just comes down to the Golden Rule - we don't like omnivores ridiculing us and telling us to eat "real" food, so we should in turn respect their choices and agree to disagree.

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    Default Re: Question on veganism and judging others (or lack thereof)

    Omnivores are people too! Lol
    Consider the way you were before you became vegan - few (if any) of us were born vegan.
    We were all ignorant before we were enlightened.

  10. #10
    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question on veganism and judging others (or lack thereof)

    I agree that as vegans we shouldn't 'militantly' push our beliefs onto others but I could never 'respect' their non-vegan choices. There is a difference between their choices and ours..........their choices lead to the death and suffering of millions of animals, whereas our choices don't.
    I as a vegan don't rant and rave to non vegans, that is not the right way to go about it, but they understand that I could never 'respect' what they do.
    I like Sandra, she keeps making me giggle. Daft little lady - Frosty

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    Rocket Queen
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    Default Re: Question on veganism and judging others (or lack thereof)

    I don't respect people who eat meat half as much as I will respect a vegan-by-choice. Same as I do not respect people who beat their partners up , people who abuse children, or people who bully.
    The greatest mistake is to do nothing because you can only do a little.

  12. #12
    Rocket Queen
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    Default Re: Question on veganism and judging others (or lack thereof)

    Respect, in my opinion, is given when earned. Not by default.
    The greatest mistake is to do nothing because you can only do a little.

  13. #13
    nattiejeanne
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    Default Re: Question on veganism and judging others (or lack thereof)

    Perhaps "respect" isn't the right word to use. I admit, I do have a slightly lower level of respect for certain people whose actions are inconsistent with claims of concern for the animals/planet. I just don't think it's fair to look at otherwise benevolent omnivores with such contempt and compare them to killers/abusers when the culture tells us over and over that we "need" meat and dairy for our health. Before going vegan, I saw all of those horrendous videos of factory farms and wanted to do something about it, but at the time, I wasn't aware of a way to omit those foods in a healthy way. Especially as a women, I was concerned about preventing osteoporosis and getting the calcium I needed. I hated the fact that I was indirectly contributing and thought free-range meat was the way to go, but couldn't afford to shop at the yuppie stores every week. (Still can't. :P) It's okay to feel proud of consuming only cruelty-free products, and I would even say that it's okay to feel a little better than your omnivore friends because of it, but understand that you're only better than them in this one area. There are so many other facets of life not encompassed by veganism; your omni friends most likely have a leg up on you somewhere else, so acting like you're totally above them and treating them like murderers is not only uncool, but it ultimately hurts our cause.

  14. #14
    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question on veganism and judging others (or lack thereof)

    Hi Nattiejeanne, no one is saying that we do or should treat non vegans like 'we are totally above them', nor do we or should we 'treat them like murderers' ...........I certainly don't do that. What I'm saying is that I can't 'respect' their being non vegan even when they know all the facts and I never will.
    I like Sandra, she keeps making me giggle. Daft little lady - Frosty

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    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question on veganism and judging others (or lack thereof)

    I agree, Sandra. I suppose I'd also say that I respect people's right to make their own decisions, but I can't respect the content of that particular decision. (I'm sure my omnivore friends feel the same way about some of my decisions, too!)

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    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question on veganism and judging others (or lack thereof)

    I agree Harpy!
    Although your omnivore friends might not respect some of your decisions they surely have to respect your decision to be vegan as it is the 'kinder' shall we say lifestyle as opposed to their lifestyle. Of course I, like you don't expect the decisions I take in life (other than that of being vegan) to be respected by omnivores or anyone for that matter.
    I like Sandra, she keeps making me giggle. Daft little lady - Frosty

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    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question on veganism and judging others (or lack thereof)

    Yes, I think they probably do respect my decision to be vegan, but not some of my other decisions. For example my very "green" friend that I always think of in this context probably thinks I could be greener, and no doubt I could (though I apparently score some points with her for being vegan and not having a car ).

  18. #18
    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question on veganism and judging others (or lack thereof)

    I'm not very green at all..........at least I don't think I am, although I'm a stickler for re-cycling!
    To be honest I only really care about the animals. I know that should include 'human' animals too, but my view is they are big enough to look after themselves......and should do!
    So, I don't expect any die hard save the planet people out there to respect my not so green lifestyle, but how could I respect their lifestyle if they aren't vegan. If everyone was vegan the whole planet would be in a far better state.
    I like Sandra, she keeps making me giggle. Daft little lady - Frosty

  19. #19
    pavotrouge
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    Default Re: Question on veganism and judging others (or lack thereof)

    Quote sandra View Post
    To be honest I only really care about the animals. I know that should include 'human' animals too, but my view is they are big enough to look after themselves......and should do!
    Sorry Sandra, but this applies only if they're not oppressed by their government, and have sufficient education and funds. More than 80% of all people in the world don't.

    So no, I don't judge others for not being vegan, because everybody chooses to focus on what seems most important and feasible to them to make the world a better place. It's only those that don't care at all I don't bother about.

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    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question on veganism and judging others (or lack thereof)

    Quote pavotrouge View Post
    Sorry Sandra, but this applies only if they're not oppressed by their government, and have sufficient education and funds. More than 80% of all people in the world don't.
    That's exactly what I mean Pavotrouge..........who are the government? The government are humans too...............humans treat their own kind badly. It's humans who need to change and start respecting other living beings whether they are human or not.
    When I said I only care about the animals it's in the respect that they are at the mercy of human beings, in a way that humans are not. Of course I care about oppressed people but at least they aren't getting slaughtered and eaten by the millions every day.
    Human beings, whether they are oppressed or not seem to put animals at the bottom of the scale.
    I like Sandra, she keeps making me giggle. Daft little lady - Frosty

  21. #21
    leedsveg
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    Default Re: Question on veganism and judging others (or lack thereof)

    Quote taliarose View Post
    Omnivores are people too! Lol
    Consider the way you were before you became vegan - few (if any) of us were born vegan.
    We were all ignorant before we were enlightened.
    I agree. Also it wasn't inevitable that I became a vegan, there were quite a few happenstances that came along that lead to my 'conversion'. If they had not come along in my life, then I may not be vegan now. As I feel this applies to other people too, then I am unable to judge them negatively for not being vegan.

    leedsveg

  22. #22
    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question on veganism and judging others (or lack thereof)

    I feel though, once someone knows the facts about veganism and still continues to abuse animals by eating meat etc they are in a different position to someone who is ignorant of the facts. Before I was vegetarian and vegan I didn't pay much attention to what goes on but once I knew, I couldn't continue living my life as I had been.
    I can't help but negatively view people who are fully aware of the cruelty but continue to do nothing.
    I like Sandra, she keeps making me giggle. Daft little lady - Frosty

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