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Thread: Forcing vegan views on others

  1. #1
    Bad Buddhist Clueless Git's Avatar
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    Default Forcing vegan views on others

    M'very good self and m'much beloved, the comfortably upholstered 'SlackAlice' (sometimes of this forum), were having a conversation earlier today.

    Alice ('Slack' to her freinds) is currently biting the bullet on banning meat from her house entirely and this old chest nut came up:

    "Is it wrong to force veganism on other people?"

    I see it kinda like this: The meat eater clearly sees no problem in forcing death upon others he views as lunch. The meat eater see's a huge problem with someone forcing the somewhat less extreme view that "this is lunch and that isn't" upon himself.

    Is a meat eater squealing (like the farmers prettiest pig?) about "it's wrong to force ones own view upon others" a blatant hypocracy of absolutely mind numbing proportions or am I missing something?

    Are we as vegans actualy showing respect to the meat eaters own morality if we, as they believe it is entirely and unchallengably right to do, force our views upon others (them in this case) also?
    All done in the best possible taste ...

  2. #2
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others ..

    Are we as vegans actualy showing respect to the meat eaters own morality if we, as they believe it is entirely and unchallengably right to do, force our views upon others (them in this case) also?
    In some cases, sharing your viewpoints on people only gives them bad conscience: they start to feel guilty and instead of changing their behavior, they start to 'dislike' whoever reminds them about their bad conscience.

    As for vegans banning meat from their homes, here's how I see it: if someone would try to convince a vegan to serve or have people eat meat in their own homes, they'd come pretty close to 'forcing' their non-vegan views on others. The fact that I don't want anyone to kill an animal or eat a dead animal in my home isn't about forcing my views onto other humans, it's about not allowing non-vegan humans to force their own ethics (or lack thereof) onto innocent animals in my home.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  3. #3
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others ..

    ^ agreed, Korn. I wouldn't think twice about it, my homes have been meat-free since I first left home in my teens. The only exception to that is non-human animals who eat meat - contrary to my wishes and without their comprehension of why and how it offends me.

  4. #4
    leedsveg
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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others ..

    Hi CS

    If veganism was just about a diet, then the lovely Slack could have been on dodgy ground. But as we know, veganism is a moral stance which includes amongst other things, trying to eat as cruelty free a diet as possible. Just as Slack could expect people not to bring lying and thieving into her house, because that would constitute immoral behaviour, so she can ask people not to bring meat, fish etc into her house because she thinks that (humans) using animals, fish etc for food is also immoral. Slack should be able to say what behaviour she will tolerate in her own house and if other people disagree with her interpretation of what is moral/immoral, they should either abide by her rules or go elsewhere.

    lv

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    veganina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others ..

    This is how i look at it: When my kids are trying to do something that i know will harm them, of course i will stop them. And when they are up to harming others or destroying common property, of course i will stop them. Nobody will argue this. Do i force my opinion on them? Yes. Is it wrong? No.
    So, is a meat eaters squealing... about "it's wrong to force ones own view upon others" a blatant hypocracy of absolutely mind numbing proportions? Yes, yes and yes.

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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others ..

    Hmmm. Is there no saying in English like 'He who owns the house, makes the rules?'

    To me, that would be common sense that - when you are invited to a vegans house - you will not get any carcasses there nor will you be looked upon friendly if you bring them yourselves.
    Would they go to a Muslims home and expece spareribs to be served?

    Best regards,
    Andy

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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others ..

    I don't force vegan views on anyone. The way I see it is that I would hate for meat eaters to do the same to me. It's obvious we all see the world differently (rightly or wrongly) and I feel that forcing my view on someone that doesn't think the same way as me is counter productive. It only serves to either alienate myself or push them away from my view point because no one like to be told how to live their life! Humans are funny creatures and much prefer to come to their own conclusions and make their own decisions. So I live by example in the hope that I quietly influence those around me. Of course if I am asked directly I am more than happy to talk about my veganism.

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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others ..

    This is an argument I've had over my wedding day - which will be an all vegan day (tyvm) - for a guest list of 68 omnis, and me and my vegan fiance...
    I don't think it's "forcing veganism" on them, as a)they will be vegan for one meal, not the rest of their lives... and b) which i find more important - vegan's don't eat anything that omni's do not eat. I'm not giving them somethign they have morals against or don't eat. But to be giving them meat would go strongly against what I feel is right...
    As for your own home, it's your home!! If it's wrong for a vegan to live in a vegan household then blow me down!

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    Back-Space's Avatar
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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others ..

    Quote VeganBride View Post
    This is an argument I've had over my wedding day - which will be an all vegan day (tyvm) - for a guest list of 68 omnis, and me and my vegan fiance...
    I don't think it's "forcing veganism" on them, as a)they will be vegan for one meal, not the rest of their lives... and b) which i find more important - vegan's don't eat anything that omni's do not eat. I'm not giving them somethign they have morals against or don't eat. But to be giving them meat would go strongly against what I feel is right...
    As for your own home, it's your home!! If it's wrong for a vegan to live in a vegan household then blow me down!
    Wow, you've got that many people eating vegan at your wedding? They must have a lot of respect for you I have difficulties trying to convince people to have a vegan meal, even if I'm offering to cook it for them....

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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others ..

    We had about that many people at our civil partnership in Sept. And they loved the food, and said it was totally not what they had expected! It felt good (Yes, it was a totally vegan day!)
    "You're right, Jackie. The Fonz could beat up Bruce Lee."

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    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others ..

    No way is giving people at a party etc a vegan meal "forcing veganism" on them! They don't have to come if they don't want to and it would be quite rude to complain IMO.

    Back-Space, have you been vegan long? Perhaps your friends haven't got used to the idea yet?

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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others ..

    Quote pusskins View Post
    We had about that many people at our civil partnership in Sept. And they loved the food, and said it was totally not what they had expected! It felt good (Yes, it was a totally vegan day!)
    Congratulations, on the partnership and the vegan meals I think I've contributed to one of my friends families becoming almost vegetarian. That's the best I've got They still eat dairy products and have meat on occasion, but whenever I go over, they point out what they're eating is vegetarian Still no luck with my family, but I've got plenty of time


    Quote harpy View Post
    No way is giving people at a party etc a vegan meal "forcing veganism" on them! They don't have to come if they don't want to and it would be quite rude to complain IMO.

    Back-Space, have you been vegan long? Perhaps your friends haven't got used to the idea yet?
    About 7 months or so... My friends are alright with it. They're upset that we never eat at restaurants anymore, but.... I think my parents are the biggest problem. They seem to take it as an insult

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    Bad Buddhist Clueless Git's Avatar
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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others ..

    Quote Andy_T View Post
    Hmmm. Is there no saying in English like 'He who owns the house, makes the rules?'
    Two, that I can think of, Andy ..

    1. An Englishmans home is his castle .. (although planning permission to add turrets, drawbridges and moats to most homes in the UK usualy get refused)

    2. He who pays the piper calls the tune ..
    All done in the best possible taste ...

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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others ..

    Congratulations Pusskins I'm really happy it went down so well for you both, a lot of people don't know about our wedding being all vegan at the mo (well, that is - we haven't told them ourselves, I just gather everyone would expect as much, with both me and my VeganGroom being vegan, and it being "our big day"..) - at the same time, it's a free three course meal with free wine/champagne and free cake after, so those who want to complain can be shown the door really! Is that too harsh :S I can never tell if it's me being selfish for not letting people ruin the day, or others being selfish for ruining it. maybe both?

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    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others ..

    While we're talking about forcing views on others...:
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  16. #16
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others ..

    Quote VeganBride View Post
    Congratulations Pusskins I'm really happy it went down so well for you both, a lot of people don't know about our wedding being all vegan at the mo (well, that is - we haven't told them ourselves, I just gather everyone would expect as much, with both me and my VeganGroom being vegan, and it being "our big day"..) - at the same time, it's a free three course meal with free wine/champagne and free cake after, so those who want to complain can be shown the door really! Is that too harsh :S I can never tell if it's me being selfish for not letting people ruin the day, or others being selfish for ruining it. maybe both?

    That's not harsh, that's completely and utterly sensible in my opinion!. I like that you aren't making an issue of it, just serve vegan food without telling them, because it's just normal food!.

  17. #17
    cobweb
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    Oh my God, Korn, that's amazing! .

  18. #18
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others ..

    Yes. But ads for highly addictive, sugary foods and drinks today aren't really much better. They're not as 'verbal' as the one above, but they spend millions on trying to make kids/young people feel that eating/drinking this or that is something people their age just do. There isn't a text saying 'for a lifetime of guaranteed happiness', but there's eg. stuff like this:

    And the ads/pressure towards drinking Cole or eating meat is based on the same subtle, between-the-lines hints about needing certain products unless one wants to feel like an outsider etc.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  19. #19
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others ..

    ^ yes you're totally correct. My son, who actually doesn't drink Colas atall, has a free Pepsi desktop background which is called something like 'Happy Land', and loves that Christmas Coke advert we get on the telly every year. That's what is all boils down to isn't, whether to be 'normal' and part of the whole sick system, or step off the conveyor belt and think for yourself. The big companies are so damn good at what they do.

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    Back-Space's Avatar
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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others ..

    Does anyone else feel like a coke?

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others ..

    whoa that old ad for coke + babies is soooo bad!!!

    but with that being said i'm out to get a frozen coke, it's too hot
    http://youandmesydney.blogspot.com/

  22. #22
    Back-Space's Avatar
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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others ..

    That ad with the baby is edited right? Seems a little fake to me, but then I've seen some pretty weird ads from back then...

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    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others ..

    Quote Back-Space View Post
    That ad with the baby is edited right? Seems a little fake to me, but then I've seen some pretty weird ads from back then...
    http://www.naturalnews.com/030528_soda_infants.html

    More:
    http://www.naturalnews.com/index-Badvertising.html
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  24. #24
    Back-Space's Avatar
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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others ..

    Omg.... Laboratory tests prove that your baby will have a better chance of fitting in. People bought that crap? That's insane

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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others ..

    I do things like the second coke ad at work all the time. We have to think of ways to basically tick people into buying things, by making them want it without them knowing. Slogans work, but colors work best with them. It's actually kind of fun, but sad in a way.

    I wouldn't force my views on anyone. If people wonder why I'm vegan I tell them. I go into detail if they don't seem to understand. With eating at my house, I have my food and the rest of the family has theirs. I've thought about the fact that I am the one that pays for their meat, I really could just refuse to buy it. I'd be pissed if someone refused to buy me vegan foods. I've made the decision I'm only going to allow my kids meat a couple of times a week. Fought with my wife about it and that was the outcome, which is better than everyday like she does. Some progress is better than none I guess.

    I dont think forcing works anyway. My brother in law wondered what it was all about. I showed him the meet your meat video, plus some other vids on turkeys. He could barely watch as it grossed him out, but after it was over he got right up and grabbed a piece of my wifes leftover turkey. It barely affected him long enough for the video to finish.

  26. #26
    Kimberlily1983
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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others ..

    Oh, wow, that Coke ad is insane! Hard to believe... No doubt we'll look back someday on the sort of things that are very commonplace today, though, and think, how could this be?

    There's an ad that bothers me, for ritalin I believe. I've looked for a copy of it online, but can't find it. I was going to post it here. But anyway, it's got this cute redheaded boy, maybe 8 years old or so, bit older? And it's basically saying something to the effect of: "Does your child have problems sitting still, doing his homework, etc.? Ritalin may be the answer." I know this is a controversial one, but my opinion on the matter is that, even if ADHD is a legitimate problem - not convinced on this one - I don't think what the pharmaceutical industry thinks is a solution is the answer. I think the answer is more likely to lie in feeding children healthy diets, getting rid of pollution, giving them physical activity as an outlet for pent-up energy, etc. Better education system, better teachers.

  27. #27
    Kimberlily1983
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    Oops, forgot to actually reply to the main topic of this thread.

    Some of you have possibly seen my other comments on this subject, and know where I stand: I'm all for openly admitting and discussing with meat-eaters that we (some of us / I) don't think veganism is a matter of "personal choice", but rather is a moral imperative, a duty that we all have. To ignore that duty is to do wrong.

    That said, you're talking about forcing people to eat only vegan in your home? Even if I did believe this was all just a matter of personal choice, I of course side with the others here: it's YOUR home, and you're allowed to make the rules. If people don't like it they don't have to visit. Hopefully, though, they will, and then they'll get to see how delicious vegan food is.

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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others ..

    Quote cobweb View Post
    That's not harsh, that's completely and utterly sensible in my opinion!. I like that you aren't making an issue of it, just serve vegan food without telling them, because it's just normal food!.
    aww thanks cobweb - very well put! I hate how people think vegans eat vegan food, and omnis eat omni food. the majority of the lot are crossovers anyway!

  29. #29
    cobweb
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    that's ok, VeganBride, I hope it all goes brilliantly well on the day x

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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others ..

    Quote Kimberlily1983 View Post
    There's an ad that bothers me, for ritalin I believe. I've looked for a copy of it online, but can't find it. I was going to post it here. But anyway, it's got this cute redheaded boy, maybe 8 years old or so, bit older? And it's basically saying something to the effect of: "Does your child have problems sitting still, doing his homework, etc.? Ritalin may be the answer." I know this is a controversial one, but my opinion on the matter is that, even if ADHD is a legitimate problem - not convinced on this one - I don't think what the pharmaceutical industry thinks is a solution is the answer. I think the answer is more likely to lie in feeding children healthy diets, getting rid of pollution, giving them physical activity as an outlet for pent-up energy, etc. Better education system, better teachers.
    My brother has ADHD, and I wish he kept taking his pills. He stopped on his own, and his life is so crazy now. He started breaking windows, running around the streets at night, and just acting all in all, ridiculous. When he was taking his pills, he was very calm, well mannered and thinks before he does things. I think if he never stopped he wouldn't have started acting so weird all the time, but he hated taking them. He said they made him feel like a zombie. That can't be good either. I know not everyone with adhd will end up doing bad things like him, but I have noticed the effects they have in a positive way. It's a lose, lose, situation.

  31. #31
    Kimberlily1983
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    Quote Dumile View Post
    My brother has ADHD, and I wish he kept taking his pills. He stopped on his own, and his life is so crazy now. He started breaking windows, running around the streets at night, and just acting all in all, ridiculous. When he was taking his pills, he was very calm, well mannered and thinks before he does things. I think if he never stopped he wouldn't have started acting so weird all the time, but he hated taking them. He said they made him feel like a zombie. That can't be good either. I know not everyone with adhd will end up doing bad things like him, but I have noticed the effects they have in a positive way. It's a lose, lose, situation.
    Well, I guess what I would wonder about is other factors such as what his home and school life are like, what his friends are like, what his diet is like, etc. If it can't be attributed to other things, maybe it is ADHD or some other real condition that needs to be treated with medication. I don't know...

    I guess what I primarily oppose is the mentality that all of these problems must be fixed with drugs, and that all of these problems are the individual's problem, as opposed to something wrong with the society, with expecting certain standards of conformity, etc. Of course, that doesn't mean that sometimes it's not the individual's problem: certainly in some cases it is. So the problem at least seems to be overdiagnosis, but maybe it's more than that. Again, I don't know...

    I only know in my own life I've been on drugs for anxiety and depression in the past, and I don't believe they helped me (and maybe further on down the years we'll find out they upped my risk of some kind of cancer, or whatever). I also know that in capitalist societies, the profit motive can be very corrupting: with regards to drug companies, there are definitive incentives to get things on the market before fully establishing safety or efficacy.

  32. #32
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    Well i can tell you that adhd is in a fact a real problem, and a medical problem. Ritalin really does help. It may be individual cases where there could be other things that help too. Sports and music usually help, but only while the person is doing that at that time. After they stop, then what? So I think Ritalin helps, but can cause other problems too. Like I said, he hated taking them because they slowed him down so much, and he felt zombie like. So that can't be positive mentally either. Either way, it's not as easy as just choosing a better diet.

    Anxiety and depression can be helped with a diet change, new friends, home life improvement, ect. ADHD, I'd have to say, needs more than that.

  33. #33
    Kimberlily1983
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    Quote Dumile View Post
    Well i can tell you that adhd is in a fact a real problem, and a medical problem. Ritalin really does help. It may be individual cases where there could be other things that help too. Sports and music usually help, but only while the person is doing that at that time. After they stop, then what? So I think Ritalin helps, but can cause other problems too. Like I said, he hated taking them because they slowed him down so much, and he felt zombie like. So that can't be positive mentally either. Either way, it's not as easy as just choosing a better diet.

    Anxiety and depression can be helped with a diet change, new friends, home life improvement, ect. ADHD, I'd have to say, needs more than that.
    You might be right. It's difficult, as sometimes people who are diagnosed, and who believe that diagnosis themselves for a time, then come out and say they reject the labeling of their difference as a medical problem.

    Actually, I feel that way about my depression to an extent. I don't generally go into this, but I don't personally believe that my depression was at all a medical condition (which, like ADHD, is not to say that it isn't for some people). I may have been predisposed biologically, genetically, but I honestly believe that my depression has been the result largely of unmet needs and an unjust world. Initially it was being bullied, the second time it was losing my faith in God and coming to terms with myself as bisexual (and thinking God hated me, while I still believed in him). Through the years it's been anxiety problems and the resulting difficulties in my life, and it's been living in a world full of so much cruelty. And feeling powerless in the face of it. I think throughout time that it possibly took on a more neurological/chemical side (because years of being depressed of course changes your physiology), but I don't think it started off that way.

    All I know for sure is that it's something (ADHD) that is diagnosed in people who don't seem to have anything wrong with them. Anyone who takes the time to look into their situation finds that, actually, it's the home, school, etc. life that's doing it. And these people are being medicated in order to help them conform and adjust to a broken system. But you're right, we definitely shouldn't just assume based on this information that ADHD is not a real medical problem for some people.

  34. #34
    Bad Buddhist Clueless Git's Avatar
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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others

    Quote Kimberlily1983 View Post
    .. but I honestly believe that my depression has been the result largely of unmet needs and an unjust world.
    'Lo kimberlily

    I once chatted with a lady who's husband had been a professional counsellor and had jacked the job in: I asked "Why?".

    She told me that he had tired of signing off case after case after case with the words "The clients need is for constant posivitive affirmation"

    I asked "and WTF does that mean in English, puuuurleeze????"

    She said "it means, quite simply, that the clients only problem is that he, or she, does not feel loved".
    All done in the best possible taste ...

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    Quote Cupid Stunt View Post
    She told me that he had tired of signing off case after case after case with the words "The clients need is for constant posivitive affirmation"
    Sounds as if he wasn't really the man for the job, if he thought all his clients had the same problem!

  36. #36
    Bad Buddhist Clueless Git's Avatar
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    Quote harpy View Post
    Sounds as if he wasn't really the man for the job, if he thought all his clients had the same problem!
    I was told that most counselling cases get written off that way Harpy.

    Obviously I can't say that from a position of personal experience but it does tally with what I observe generaly in life.
    All done in the best possible taste ...

  37. #37
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others

    I saw a counsellor and found him quite helpful - the problem wasn't anything to do with feeling unloved or needing affirmation, but fortunately the counsellor listened to what the actual problem was and helped with it.

    I did see another one once that seemed inclined to pigeonhole all problems of whatever nature as being down to a loveless childhood (which I didn't actually have one of), so there may be something in what you say, that some counsellors tend to write off all cases as being the same

  38. #38
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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others

    I had a bizzare encounter with a councellor while I was a mature (as opposed to old) university student. I booked to see the resident councellor as I was having serious marital problems.

    I started to discuss my issues with my husband and he nodded but seemed somewhat distracted!

    He stopped me mid sentence and pronounced that all my problems arose from my feeling that my parents didnt love me. I fell silent to contemplate his words and think how to answer but by the time I had got my tongue in gear he had already started a rant about his own parents . He gave me his whole life story , alternating between shouting and being almost reduced to tears by his memories . Being me (bit of a soft touch ) I didnt distract him or get him back on track but tried to empathise. It was all acutely embarrassing and akward but thankfully broken by the fire alarm being sounded. So in a further bizzare twist we trailed out to the car park together .

    My friend who joined us in the car park as we lined up said 'oh I didnt know you were having councelling!' I am not sure wether I was receiving or giving!

  39. #39
    Kimberlily1983
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    Wow, what a strange experience, SlackAlice!

    Just to clarify, I was in no way unloved, Cupid. I did have issues with my parents, but just the normal teenage stuff. The trouble for me was being bullied at school, and having teachers who saw it and did nothing, or in some cases even exacerbated it a bit... Not right.

    So, yeah, as a teen it was the injustices I was facing personally that played a big part, and as I got older, it was more things that affected groups I was a part of (the queer community, for instance) and even more so, animal exploitation. The destruction of the Earth and the general evil of corporations played a role, too.

    I think the point of your story (Cupid) was that you think these might not be the only factors in my having become depressed, that perhaps there's a medical side to it I wasn't aware of? I wouldn't say it's impossible, but I don't believe it to be the case. Some of the doctors I've seen, on the other hand, assert with 100% certainty that it was medical from the beginning, and that I absolutely needed to be on medication, etc. Others have acknowledged that there's no basis for this kind of blanket statement and that while drugs can be beneficial, there are other things that can be done.

  40. #40
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others

    Different strokes for different folks or whatever the saying is.........some people find meds really helpful (a lifesaver) others find counselling good, for some it's lifestyle changes, we have to keep an open mind really and keep looking til we find our own answers. I'm personally none too amused to know that I seem to 'need' meds, but trial and error over MANY years have seemingly proved this to be correct. It's either take the meds or jump off the nearest tall building I'm afraid, I don't handle being part of the human race particularly well .

  41. #41
    Kimberlily1983
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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others

    I certainly wouldn't want to assume that meds never help anyone except through the placebo effect, but I do believe that the majority of people who claim they need meds and that their meds help are actually primarily or entirely benefiting from the placebo effect. Again,

  42. #42
    Kimberlily1983
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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others

    ... whoops, sent that by accident. Okay, to continue my post: Again, I would not want to claim that everyone who thinks they're being helped is just gullible, or anything like that. Many of these meds have real effects on mood; they generally flatten affect, and that can be a good thing if your lows are getting you very down, and are more pronounced than your highs (or if you don't have any highs). But I do think it's more often a mix of placebo effect and other lifestyle changes, rather than the actual effects of the drug, that's helping people.

  43. #43
    Bad Buddhist Clueless Git's Avatar
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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others

    Quote Kimberlily1983 View Post
    Just to clarify, I was in no way unloved, Cupid. I did have issues with my parents, but just the normal teenage stuff. The trouble for me was being bullied at school, and having teachers who saw it and did nothing, or in some cases even exacerbated it a bit... Not right.

    So, yeah, as a teen it was the injustices I was facing personally that played a big part, and as I got older, it was more things that affected groups I was a part of (the queer community, for instance) and even more so, animal exploitation. The destruction of the Earth and the general evil of corporations played a role, too.

    I think the point of your story (Cupid) was that you think these might not be the only factors in my having become depressed, that perhaps there's a medical side to it I wasn't aware of? I wouldn't say it's impossible, but I don't believe it to be the case. Some of the doctors I've seen, on the other hand, assert with 100% certainty that it was medical from the beginning, and that I absolutely needed to be on medication, etc. Others have acknowledged that there's no basis for this kind of blanket statement and that while drugs can be beneficial, there are other things that can be done.
    I was musing actualy Kimberlily.. back to a time when I didn't love myself at all.

    Happily that time has passed and my love for myself (as SlackAlice will ruefully confirm?) is the now the greatest love of all
    All done in the best possible taste ...

  44. #44
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others

    Quote Kimberlily1983 View Post
    Many of these meds have real effects on mood; they generally flatten affect

    Yep, that's exactly what my meds do for me, otherwise I'm on a continuum of rapidly cycling and very erratic moods which is utterly exhausting.

  45. #45

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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others

    I never preach to others as it enhances the negative view of us that we are all preachy and annoying

    But if someone starts on me "they were made for us to eat, they're already dead anyway" blah blah blah... I say, I wouldn't preach to you, now YOU don't preach to me, and I might then go into details about why they're wrong, because if an ignorant person chose to challenge me, it's their fault for picking on a more knowledgeable person

  46. #46

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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others

    I do things like the second coke ad at work all the time. We have to think of ways to basically tick people into buying things, by making them want it without them knowing. Slogans work, but colors work best with them. It's actually kind of fun, but sad in a way.

    I wouldn't force my views on anyone.
    Is 'tricking people into buying things' kind of like forcing views on people? In our daily lives we all make compromises, and many of them in the workplace. In this case I feel it is perhaps a case of forcing a corporations views onto other people, only more sneakily so. It is unfortunate that many of us must make our livings in ways that contradict 'our views'. I am saying this without judging the person who posted this, as I have done things for money that I have not been comfortable with.

    Still, there is an accountability that we all have to own up to for contributing to the ongoing troubles in the world. We are forced or choose to participate in chains of events that include links to oppression. We find ways to justify our involvement. Just as a meat eater may justify eating an animal because he did not actually participate in the raising or slaughtering, and somehow comes to the belief that he is not accountable for those acts.

    We can not force views onto others without alienating them. But just as advertising sways people towards consuming products, our actions are what contribute to people changing their habits. If we practice truth in our speech and compassion in our actions we are the most likely to influence others. By keeping our homes and weddings sacred and free of animal exploitation we send a strong message. If we go to others homes and weddings and try to impose our views we have already done more damage than good.

    "Be the change that you want to see", is always the best place to start.

  47. #47
    FaerieSuzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others

    Well they don't see any problem with eating meat in front of me, in fact I should 'just get over it' so whenever I'm cooking, they have to 'get over it' and eat their greens !
    Even the smallest person can change the course of the future

  48. #48
    Bad Buddhist Clueless Git's Avatar
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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others

    Quote FaerieSuzy View Post
    Well they don't see any problem with eating meat in front of me, in fact I should 'just get over it' so whenever I'm cooking, they have to 'get over it' and eat their greens !
    'Lo Suzy

    Just in case it make anyone smile ..

    My parents used to do the 'just get over it thing ..' with me sometimes.

    Knowing that they find nudity 'uncomfortable' I politely enquired that if I were to strip off and eat my meal naked how would they respond if I simply said "now you get over that!"?
    All done in the best possible taste ...

  49. #49
    BlackBow
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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others

    With 8-10 ads being advertised for meat/cheese, meat eaters dehumanizing vegans, and meat eaters killing and
    torture other for their own beliefs we are not the ones forcing our views on others. The most we do is educate
    meat eaters about their life style with facts.

    I HATE being in a house that has meat/dairy/cheese in it. I over think things and sometimes when I open it
    I think of the suffering innocent beings went through just because of my parents. Also, I have to cook
    my food that they cook with so that's no fun. Can't wait till I'm grown and can open the fridge full of cruelty free
    food from whole foods after I come home from working as an animal nutritionist at an animal sanctuary
    (That's what I want to be when I grow up )

  50. #50
    Bad Buddhist Clueless Git's Avatar
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    Default Re: Forcing vegan views on others

    Quote BlackBow View Post
    I HATE being in a house that has meat/dairy/cheese in it ..

    Can't wait till I'm grown and can open the fridge full of cruelty free food ..
    Aye, I know what you mean there Blackbow.

    My children are 'from birth' vegetarians and I managed to get the house 95% vegan before they both, pretty much at the same time, experimented with leaving home.

    Obviously the house immediately went 100% vegan then.

    My daughter returned and tried to re-introduce eggs into the fridge and latterly my son, who has just taken up body building, tried re-introducing cows milk.

    All I'm going to say is this; The strength of my reaction took me by surprise, let alone how it took them.

    Guess I'd not actualy realised how 'nice' it is to have nothing in the fridge and cupboards that reminds me of the cruelty that goes on untill that 'sanctity' came under threat again.
    All done in the best possible taste ...

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