Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: The Guardian in 'Offensive, Idiotic Article' Shocker

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    18

    Default The Guardian in 'Offensive, Idiotic Article' Shocker

    Love animals? Kill and eat them!
    I doubt she'll think we should love our family quite as much...

    I'd thought The Guardian was a progressive outlet - but this just seems like a way for pseudo-leftists to justify their convenient, comfortable, banally evil, lifestyles.
    She doesn't even seem to realise that 'better' farm conditions, equals more land, more food, more water...which will further decimate the planet for the sake of a horrifying luxury.

    'To be vegetarian is to be a pacifist, avoiding the fight against animal cruelty. Eat meat from sustainable farms, and we will win'

    'I had a serious change of heart, and it happened when I realised my aversion to meat wasn't solving the animal welfare problem I was protesting about.

    My beef, after all, wasn't with beef. It was with how the cow got to my plate in the first place. One way to make sure the animals I ate lived a happy, respectable life was to raise them myself.

    I would learn to butcher a free-range chicken, raise a pig without antibiotics and rear lambs on green hillside pastures. I would come back to meat eating, and I would do it because of my love for animals.'

    'I'm sorry my vegetarian friends, but it's time to come back to the table. You can remain in the rabbit hole and keep eating your salad, but the only way out for good is to eat the rabbit.'


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...l-cruelty-meat
    Last edited by GrahamJ; Jan 20th, 2011 at 10:42 AM. Reason: Clarity.
    http://veganglais.blogspot.com/

    www.twitter.com/ichwillnichts

  2. #2
    whalespace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    bodicitta
    Posts
    456

    Default Re: The Guardian in 'Offensive, Idiotic Article' Shocker

    Could be a scavenger trying to start a fight... she admits to cutting up the chicken bodies, but only explicitly mentions the "rais[ing]" of the mammals. The author of the article claims to be raising the animals in a lovely environment, because she loves them. Having been vegetarian, she is presumably aware that she need not eat animals in order to provide them with a "lovely" environment.

    Perhaps the distress of the lady at the cruelty of the factory farms really was so great that she tried desperately to demonstrate how to treat 'farm' animals kindly... before saying "See! Like that...now beat it to death...and then I will reward you by eating the meat."
    Frankly the whole arrangement seems scarey, in an unhinged, bolt for the door kind of way. Hello Mummy, how are you so lovely when the world is so cruel?

    Mummy: "Because they pay me well, and then I eat your organs. Get in the lorry."
    Problematic is waking someone whom pretends to sleep.

  3. #3
    baffled harpy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    6,655

    Default Re: The Guardian in 'Offensive, Idiotic Article' Shocker

    It's b0ll0cks isn't it? Think they just publish these things every so often to generate a large mailbag, or more like a good number of comments/hits since I didn't see this in the print version of the paper (may have missed it though).

    ETA This farmer person wrote "plant-based diet avoids consuming animals but it certainly isn't getting cows out of feedlots. However, steak-eating consumers choosing to eat sustainably raised meat are". This assumes wrongly that the cows need to be either in the feedlots or on "sustainable" facilities like hers, whereas they don't have to be anywhere at all.

    This argument, if you can call it that, commits the fallacy more familiar as "but what would happen to all the farm animals if everyone went vegetarian?". If everyone went vegan then the question of reducing farm animal suffering wouldn't arise, there would be far fewer cows etc and the ones there were would be living out their natural existence (or as natural as possible given the fact that we have already destroyed their habitats )

  4. #4
    Divided by 0 MoonDance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    243

    Default Re: The Guardian in 'Offensive, Idiotic Article' Shocker

    I don't even live over there and it's made me pissed off .... actually more than pissed *keep it PG MoonDance :umm_ani*

    Seriously, why do people feel the need to do this? The hell is wrong with them?!
    I hate it when I'm studying and a velociraptor throws bananas on me.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    18

    Default Re: The Guardian in 'Offensive, Idiotic Article' Shocker

    Quote harpy View Post
    It's b0ll0cks isn't it? Think they just publish these things every so often to generate a large mailbag, or more like a good number of comments/hits since I didn't see this in the print version of the paper (may have missed it though).

    ETA This farmer person wrote "plant-based diet avoids consuming animals but it certainly isn't getting cows out of feedlots. However, steak-eating consumers choosing to eat sustainably raised meat are". This assumes wrongly that the cows need to be either in the feedlots or on "sustainable" facilities like hers, whereas they don't have to be anywhere at all.

    This argument, if you can call it that, commits the fallacy more familiar as "but what would happen to all the farm animals if everyone went vegetarian?". If everyone went vegan then the question of reducing farm animal suffering wouldn't arise, there would be far fewer cows etc and the ones there were would be living out their natural existence (or as natural as possible given the fact that we have already destroyed their habitats )
    There was this garbage in there the other day:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...e&type=article

    It's just offensive, ignorant crap - and it's meant to be this liberal, progressive newspaper. I'll certainly never buy it - let alone use the website; The Sun pisses me off less!

    I wonder if this stupid woman, if living at the time, would have stopped opposing slavery - and criticised abolitionists: 'You're not loving black people! Keep them as slaves - yes! - but use a softer whip.'.
    Dolt.
    http://veganglais.blogspot.com/

    www.twitter.com/ichwillnichts

  6. #6
    Bad Buddhist Clueless Git's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Milton Keynes
    Posts
    1,089

    Default Re: The Guardian in 'Offensive, Idiotic Article' Shocker

    Obviously I completely agree that the woman is a total twonk but I have to point something out just to be awkward ...

    If people only ate meat from sustainable farms then there would be so little meat actualy produced that all but the very wealthiest would be forced to be 90% veg*an anyway.
    All done in the best possible taste ...

  7. #7
    baffled harpy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    6,655

    Default Re: The Guardian in 'Offensive, Idiotic Article' Shocker

    Quote Cupid Stunt View Post
    If people only ate meat from sustainable farms then there would be so little meat actualy produced that all but the very wealthiest would be forced to be 90% veg*an anyway.
    Agreed, but what's needed is for meateaters, not vegetarians, to switch to "sustainable" meat, surely.

    Must admit I do still love the Guardian even though they sometimes publish cr@p. Am wondering, if I write a thinly disguised puff for my business will they put it on "Comment is Free", and if not why not?

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    18

    Default Re: The Guardian in 'Offensive, Idiotic Article' Shocker

    Quote harpy View Post
    Am wondering, if I write a thinly disguised puff for my business will they put it on "Comment is Free", and if not why not?
    Haha.
    I think reading Private Eye will put you off reading any of the newspapers...
    http://veganglais.blogspot.com/

    www.twitter.com/ichwillnichts

  9. #9
    baffled harpy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    6,655

    Default Re: The Guardian in 'Offensive, Idiotic Article' Shocker

    I do, and it hasn't I would spend all day and all night reading newspapers if I could, and sometimes it seems as if I do!

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    18

    Default Re: The Guardian in 'Offensive, Idiotic Article' Shocker

    Quote harpy View Post
    I do, and it hasn't I would spend all day and all night reading newspapers if I could, and sometimes it seems as if I do!
    Hahaha. Glutton for punishment...

    Is Rusbridger the one who abuses his staff...? It's so hard to keep track of which editor's in whose pocket, and has been calling people names...
    http://veganglais.blogspot.com/

    www.twitter.com/ichwillnichts

  11. #11
    Not real name!
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Wakefield
    Posts
    256

    Default Re: The Guardian in 'Offensive, Idiotic Article' Shocker

    Isn't the role of the media to present as balanced a set of opinions as possible? Sure the Guardian is left-leaning but that doesn't mean that every single piece has to promote the same ideals.

    Where would we be if our convictions weren't challenged or if we only read stuff written for us, the already converted.

    I read the Guardian. I have no objection to that article being there. I do, however, object to her reasoning and think she is trying to justify her own actions rather than promote them.

    Maybe vegans should not buy any newspaper that features, for example, animal based recipes. I don't think that be sensible but some of you might.

  12. #12
    baffled harpy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    6,655

    Default Re: The Guardian in 'Offensive, Idiotic Article' Shocker

    Quote Glen Lambert View Post
    Isn't the role of the media to present as balanced a set of opinions as possible? Sure the Guardian is left-leaning but that doesn't mean that every single piece has to promote that same ideals.
    Quite, I don't expect to agree with everything I read, otherwise I would just read the contents of my own brain

    I think they should do a bit more QA on some of these CiF contributions though because the standard of the arguments, and/or the presentation of them, can be fairly low. Although, as I say, the ones that are easiest to fault may generate the healthiest response from readers (this one has certainly attracted a lot of comments) which may be the object of the exercise.

  13. #13
    Bad Buddhist Clueless Git's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Milton Keynes
    Posts
    1,089

    Default Re: The Guardian in 'Offensive, Idiotic Article' Shocker

    Quote harpy View Post
    Agreed, but what's needed is for meateaters, not vegetarians, to switch to "sustainable" meat, surely.

    Must admit I do still love the Guardian even though they sometimes publish cr@p. Am wondering, if I write a thinly disguised puff for my business will they put it on "Comment is Free", and if not why not?
    Good point Harpy!

    Mebbe Ms Twonk has realised that meat eaters arent going to switch, as they would then be virtual vegetarians, so switching vegetarians over to being meat eaters is her only viable target market.
    All done in the best possible taste ...

  14. #14
    Bad Buddhist Clueless Git's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Milton Keynes
    Posts
    1,089

    Default Re: The Guardian in 'Offensive, Idiotic Article' Shocker

    Thinking about it ..

    Ms Twonk completely ommited the very simple fact that the only reason that unsubstainable meat ever came to exist is due to an otherwise entirely sustainable demand.
    All done in the best possible taste ...

  15. #15

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Petaling Jaya, Malaysia
    Posts
    772

    Default Re: The Guardian in 'Offensive, Idiotic Article' Shocker

    The good old 'welfare vs. abolition' approach all over. While it might have some logic at the surface, that logic is seriously flawed IMO.

    Of course, there are diehard meat-eaters who are not going to turn vegetarian. So what are 'we' going to do about these?

    My point is that they are not going to search out 'humanely produced' meat. Rather, they will continue to do what they are doing and feel a little more smug because now they can claim 'Oh, I only eat meat maybe once or twice a week, and only from sustainable sources, y'know, organic, even though it costs a bit more' ... considering how often I have heard this sentence, I am always utterly surprised to still see the factory-farm-produced crap lining the aisles of supermarkets, if obviously nobody would ever consider buying it :-(

    Best regards,
    Andy

  16. #16
    Bad Buddhist Clueless Git's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Milton Keynes
    Posts
    1,089

    Default Re: The Guardian in 'Offensive, Idiotic Article' Shocker

    'Lo Andy

    That post of yours made me think too ...

    May not be so much so now, but; When countries like Korea and China were poorer, nearly all their meat would have been raised by subsistence (i.e. sustainable) farmers. There was not enough actual livestock produced to meet the 'die hards' demand and, I would imagine, that is why they turned to eating non-farmed animals like cats and dogs.

    If I got that right then it is fair evidence that where there is insufficient farmed meat to meet demand that animal abuse is increased and not reduced?
    All done in the best possible taste ...

  17. #17

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    18

    Default Re: The Guardian in 'Offensive, Idiotic Article' Shocker

    Quote Glen Lambert View Post
    Isn't the role of the media to present as balanced a set of opinions as possible? Sure the Guardian is left-leaning but that doesn't mean that every single piece has to promote the same ideals.

    Where would we be if our convictions weren't challenged or if we only read stuff written for us, the already converted.

    I read the Guardian. I have no objection to that article being there. I do, however, object to her reasoning and think she is trying to justify her own actions rather than promote them.

    Maybe vegans should not buy any newspaper that features, for example, animal based recipes. I don't think that be sensible but some of you might.
    In theory, and in a free society, perhaps that is.
    In practice - when left to individuals...? And then there's the question 'Is this a free society'?

    If this garbage was eloquent - well-written, and backed with something to corroborate it - I wouldn't mind it so much. However, it's not.
    And would you/others tolerate it if they published a piece by Nick Griffin?
    - Would The Guardian publish him? - Or even Richard Littlejohn?

    But, y'know: in defence of speciesism is ok with these dullards; in defence of racism - or even xenophobia - is not.

    And there's the question of whether this woman's advertisement was published due to cronyism, rather than detached journalistic behaviour; anyone familiar with how these organisations operate will be somewhat sceptical.

    I'm pretty sure The Guardian never publishes anything contrary to its ideals - this included. The received wisdom is that it never challenges anyone, and 'preaches to the choir'.
    http://veganglais.blogspot.com/

    www.twitter.com/ichwillnichts

  18. #18

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Petaling Jaya, Malaysia
    Posts
    772

    Default Re: The Guardian in 'Offensive, Idiotic Article' Shocker

    Quote Cupid Stunt View Post
    'Lo Andy There was not enough actual livestock produced to meet the 'die hards' demand and, I would imagine, that is why they turned to eating non-farmed animals like cats and dogs.
    Au contraire, I'd say. Dogs are well farmed for consumption in Korea (and earlier also in China, as the original form of the letter 'to cook' is constructed by writing the letter 'dog' above the letter 'fire').

    But, at least in China cats are normally not eaten in quantity, as there is a superstition that a cat has nine lives, so if you kill a cat, it will come back to you in its other lives to exact revenge on you. If you kill a cat on the road with your car, you have to go to the temple and do penance to pacify its spirit, or so my Chinese wife tells me. So good luck for the cats.

    I guess there were not so many die-hard meat eaters ... meat was more an item of reverence that was not consumed for economic reasons, and - just like Herbert Hoover promised 'a chicken in every pot' as image of the future during the recession years this is now seen as one of the great advances of modern civilization that meat is now achievable for the wide masses.

    Unfortunately they do not know what it is doing to their health and do not care what it is doing to the animals. I used to have great respect for the billions of buddhists in Asia who refrained from eating meat until I heard that for the majority of them this was not so much an ethical, but more a financial consideration.

    But I fully agree with you - what was there, was subsistence farming, but most likely not much nicer than what we have now in factory farms....

    Best regards,
    Andy

  19. #19

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Petaling Jaya, Malaysia
    Posts
    772

    Default Re: The Guardian in 'Offensive, Idiotic Article' Shocker

    Quote Glen Lambert View Post
    Isn't the role of the media to present as balanced a set of opinions as possible?
    I'm afraid, if they gave a balanced set of the opinions of the 95 % of the population that choose to consume corpses and the 5 % who do not, we might actually get less coverage of the vegan point of view...

    Best regards,
    Andy

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 34
    Last Post: Sep 2nd, 2010, 05:49 PM
  2. Stupid Guardian Article
    By Hemlock in forum News
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: Apr 29th, 2008, 08:53 AM
  3. Replies: 5
    Last Post: Feb 9th, 2008, 10:11 AM
  4. Interesting segment from Guardian article on Tesco
    By The_Lincoln_Imp in forum Projects, companies & links
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: Oct 8th, 2005, 01:18 AM
  5. Offensive Warburtons ad
    By gibby in forum UK
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: May 8th, 2005, 01:44 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •