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Thread: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board

  1. #1

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    Unhappy Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board

    I am vegan and my husband is not, not even slightly and is pissed off with me for making him have a meat free week due to eating veal on holiday!
    Anyway we are expecting our first little one, due in just under 7 weeks and have compramised and agreed that we will raise him vegetarian until he is old enough to choose which path he wants to go down.
    Anyway my husband said he understands the compramise and is on board BUT he really is not on board, we were talking the other day about HOW we will go about teaching him about animals and meat and he said that he will say things like 'The cow there, in the field is there to be eaten!'
    Obviously I had a go at him and said that is not how we will do it because that is not right, that we should say things like 'The cow there, in the field is there to live life but some people do choose to eat them'
    I bought a book 'Thats why we dont eat animals' and he said that he thinks the book is biast and that it focuses on 'the bad' points- obviously being vegan I disagree that there are any 'good points' but that is an argument for another day.
    I want my child to grow up with compassion for all living beings, not look at a cow and think 'yum, meat!'
    I asked my husband the other day, 'what is a cow to you?' and he said 'food' really bluntly.
    I think I am going to have a real struggle on my hands. Have any of you found a good book that is 'child friendly' when it comes to vegetarianism?

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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the Dad really is not on board...

    It took many years before my partner turned vegan. He only turned completely vegan about a year ago. We have a 3 1/2 year old and one on the way. When I met him he was big on eating meat, fish, cheese, etc. At the time it wasn't anything he ever put much thought into and the idea of eating vegan was a bit weird to him even though he did always have respect for my way of living. Most of his family thought I was a bit off my head, but mostly polite in my face, they always gave my partner extra meat, cheese or whatever non-vegan when we visited them because they assumed he would be very deprived. I didn't judge him on not being vegan since I grew up an omnivore myself, but I would never prepare or buy him anything non-vegan. Only when he asked me about it would I show him a little film or explain certain things to him about nutrients, cruelty to animals etc, I don't believe in changing someone. When I was pregnant with my daughter my partner was still an omnivore although we ate mostly vegan foods at home at the time and he was a bit upset at first when I said that no way was this child going to grow up being an omnivore. They can always change later if they want and this child is going to be healthy, if not much healthier. To set his mind at ease at his request I showed him some examples on how healthy vegan foods are for children and showed him studies that vegan children are not sickly, unhealthy or behind in their development. After our daughter was born he wanted to show a good example and be vegan as well, but he slipped up many times. Only in the last year did he decide to fully become vegan and now he's kicking himself for not doing it earlier. He changed completely and finds it completely sick the way animals are treated and used and it's not even healthy. Most of his family, mainly the male side, thinks he's gone completely nuts and are quite disrespectful to him about him being vegan now as well. The women on his side are eating more vegan foods and have changed their attitude somewhat.

    I don't have a book recommendation for you. I've been vegan for a long time now and only did a lot of book reading when I just turned vegan. There are lots of interesting websites on the internet everywhere, there are also lots of research links that I've read into after links have been posted on this forum, I often send them out to friends and family or post them on my Facebook page if anyone's interested in reading about it.
    I just wanted to give you my experience. I never expected my partner to change, but I'm happy that he did since our entire little family is now vegan. It's not impossible for people to change, but I think you'll get the best results if someone comes to things on their own. Some people take a long time to change and others never will. I've been with my daughter 24/7 since the start and I would never allow anything non-vegan to pass her lips, so I knew I would be in control there, so it's been pretty easy so far. I can understand how frustrating it is being so close with someone, but not having them on your side for something so close to your heart. I can only wish you good luck and I hope you'll find a way of working around your husband with this one.

  3. #3
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the Dad really is not on board...

    To be brutally honest, I think that finding a book is the least of your worries .

    How are you going to explain to your child why you decided to raise him or her vegetarian rather than vegan?
    .
    If you don't feel that you need to eat dairy and eggs then I'm wondering why you reached that particular compromise?.

    Also, it really sounds like your husband doesn't have any compassion for animals atall . I would have been concerned about having a family with somebody so entrenched in those views, but, assuming that you're madly in love and he's otherwise a great partner, I would still bet that he will give your child meat at some stage.

    So I really wouldn't worry about books, if I were you I'd be worrying about my marriage. Sorry if that sounds nasty, but you two seem to poles apart in your thinking! .

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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the Dad really is not on board...

    Just because they don't agree on something doesn't mean that their marriage is having issues, yes it can cause some issues in some relationships, but my boyfriend is very respectful to me. Now I do think that when the time comes we will have issues about raising kids, but really what parents don't? All parents have different views on certain things on raising their children, why should eating be any different. As long as everyone is respectful i'm sure you will be able to sway him to our side....

    Some people just honestly don't understand, and some people have a hard time listening because they feel guilty or they don't want to feel guilt.
    "i'm rejecting my reflection, cause i hate the way it judges me."

  5. #5
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the Dad really is not on board...

    ^ that is true, missb, but it's just what I've personally found.........there are so many issues that parents have to agree on, and I think if one partner is vegan and the other literally sees a cow and thinks 'food', then that's a pretty wide river to be bridged straight away, before all the other child related stress stuff begins. My husband isn't vegan but doesn't eat meat or dairy. He finds veganism a bit 'extreme' and that has caused problems here and there, so I am sympathetic, just can't imagine having such a wide gulf between views when it comes to such a huge issue. It may be 'just food', but it's ethics aswell, isn't it, and it's a DAILY issue. Also I don't understand how raising a baby as vegetarian is a good compromise?.

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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the Dad really is not on board...

    True....I mean it does cause issues in my relationship sometimes, and it is super frustrating....but it is what it is, i love my boyfriend and we have been together a long time so... we make it work...but he also doesn't refer to cows as food...though he does eat it from time to time... He never teases me about it, and he is very sensitive to me.

    I kind of understand the compromise thing, its hard enough to raise a kid, I mean if you don't have a good support system to raise a child vegan that would be really hard too.... and there are a lot more convinience and kid foods that are vegetarian and not vegan...I understand what she is talking about but i can't really explain why or give a good enough response to that...
    "i'm rejecting my reflection, cause i hate the way it judges me."

  7. #7
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the Dad really is not on board...

    I do sort of get what you're saying........I raised my son as a veggie and even went veggie myself (from vegan) when I was pregnant, as a compromise. Now, when I look back, I feel angry that I was pressured into doing that. My son made the choice to go vegan when he was 7, but now he wonders why he wasn't raised as one, and what can I say?. If people keep doing what I did, what does that say about veganism?. That we aren't really confident about it as a good choice for our kids?.

    I hope I haven't offended you with what I said, Rachel-Louise, I do understand that people can be great in many ways and still not get veganism, but I would be outraged if ANYONE told me, in seriousness, that they saw any animal as 'food'. Maybe you are a lot more tolerant than me x.

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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the Dad really is not on board...

    Good point cobby.
    "i'm rejecting my reflection, cause i hate the way it judges me."

  9. #9
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the Dad really is not on board...

    Quote missbettie View Post
    Good point cobby.
    Hope I didn't offend you, either, Missb, I think I reacted partly because of my own guilt about the compromises I made when in the same situation

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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the Dad really is not on board...

    oh no of course not! i mean, i don't really have kids, i just get frustrated when people give up on relationships, i mean yes, there are certain ones that we should get out of, but IMO most people barely try anymore, relationships are a lot of work.
    "i'm rejecting my reflection, cause i hate the way it judges me."

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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the Dad really is not on board...

    I do agree with that I don't see this as having to be a relationship breaker. I've been in this situation myself. I think it's ok to be in a relationship where someone has completely opposite views, some relationships just work fine like that eventhough it can be frustrating sometimes. If I couldn't accept others being non-vegan I would never have started a relationship with my partner or have non-vegan friends, I would have made a lot of different decisions in my life.

    I don't feel vegetarian is a good compromise though. You're still supporting the same unhealthy and exploitative industry. And a child can always opt into being an omnivore later on in life, he or she won't be deprived until then.

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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board...

    Thankyou to all of you for your replies and advice.

    Cobweb, in all honesty I did feel that your post was quite nasty, however you are completly entitled to your opinion and I am not looking for an argument so will leave it at that.
    Our marriage has been 'trying' the past couple of months due to the fact that I came off my meds for MH illness due to being pregnant and I had a major relapse back in March and had to restart my medication, my husband stayed home from work for 2 months to be my sole carer, I was a mess, the worst I have ever been, I could not go to the toilet without him with me, he had to cook for me and put me to bed, he was my rock and stayed by me through what so far has been the hardest time of our marriage, so I do think our marriage is strong, or else we would not have made it through that.
    The fact that if given the chance he would raise our boy as a meat eater and given the chance I would raise him vegan, the only 'fair' compramise is to raise him vegetarian.
    He will eat mostly vegan anyway because I will be the one with him all the time and I will be talking to him about compassion towards animals before he can understand anyway and he will be taken to farms and animal sanctuaries all the time in the hope he will grow up with respect for every living being and not want to eat them, but that has to be his choice when he is old enough to understand the process for the meat to end up on the plate.
    If he chooses to become vegan then obvioulsy I will be thrilled but if he does decide he wants to try or be a meat eater then that is his choice and I will respect that- yes I will probably have a few private tears but he is going to be brought up to make his own choice not be swayed by either of us.

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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board...

    very lovely RL. <3 Relationships are hard work! but hard with anyone you're with....it seems like you have a good mindset and your husband seems like a great guy. I think you guys will be able to work it out... unfortunately as I don't have children I'm not sure I will be able to give you good advice, but my thinking is, i'll be the one cooking anyways when I have kids, and everyone eats what I serve them so I don't think that meat will be a big issue unless my kids are with their grandparents.
    "i'm rejecting my reflection, cause i hate the way it judges me."

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    cobweb
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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board...

    I'm sorry if I upset you. The fact is, though, that any way you bring up your son, you are going to affect him and sway his choices, it's unavoidable. By giving your son cow milk you are making a statement that you think this is acceptable, aren't you?.
    Again, sorry if I upset you, though you did post here looking for people's thoughts I guess?. I gave my views because I feel crappy about making 'compromises' that involved going against my strong beliefs, but you have to do what is right for your own family.
    I'm guessing you won't be able to feed your son yourself if you're on meds?. That must tough for you.

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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board...

    Missbettie- Thankyou for your sweet post! He has his moments like all men lol, but most of the time he is a gem!
    Cobweb- No hard feelings, dont worry! I can see where you are coming from and I do agree in a way, but I guess being veggie is not as 'cruel' as being a meat eater so that is where I have had to compramise, I am not happy about feeding him dairy and will avoid it where I can but I have had to come to the agreement due to the circumstances.
    Nope, I cant breast feed due to meds, which is hard but I did not really have any alternative as if I did not restart my meds I probably would not be here now, so I guess that was a sacrifice I had to make for our little one in a way.

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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the Dad really is not on board...

    Quote cobweb View Post
    I do sort of get what you're saying........I raised my son as a veggie and even went veggie myself (from vegan) when I was pregnant, as a compromise. Now, when I look back, I feel angry that I was pressured into doing that. My son made the choice to go vegan when he was 7, but now he wonders why he wasn't raised as one, and what can I say?. If people keep doing what I did, what does that say about veganism?. That we aren't really confident about it as a good choice for our kids?.

    I hope I haven't offended you with what I said, Rachel-Louise, I do understand that people can be great in many ways and still not get veganism, but I would be outraged if ANYONE told me, in seriousness, that they saw any animal as 'food'. Maybe you are a lot more tolerant than me x.
    I would have to agree with you here about going veggie. To me that seems a really weird compromise and I just can't see it working. Would this mean that with you Rachel-louise your husband would be going veggie as well? Or would you compromise going veggie or only your child going veggie? I think vegetarianism is really unhealthy and the products used for veggies come from the same source as the meat does, so I don't see going veggie as a good thing. I'm sure there must be loads written about this topic in this forum in other threads. I can certainly understand what Cobweb is saying about looking back and being unhappy with having made this choice in the past.

    And Rachel-Louise, it must be really tough getting of meds because of pregnancy. I'm pregnant again right now and I know how trying it can be in certain ways just purely on its own. It sounds like you've been through a really tough time. And your husband sounds sweet looking after you. I think that would be a trying time in everyone's marriage. My first pregnancy was really difficult because of entirely different reasons, I had some complications during pregnancy. I think if you get through this it can make your relationship better and stronger. It certainly brought me and my partner closer to eachother. Anyway, good luck with the rest of your pregnancy, I hope the rest will be easier than what you've experienced before.

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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board...

    I'm a vegan with an omni wife albeit I was veggie when our kids were born. The kids started out omni then we agreed to change them to veggie around the time I went vegan - it's a compromise . . . I feed them vegan whenever I can but it's been a struggle to even convince people that them going veggie is the right thing to do. At the outset family members would sneakily feed them meat when I wasnt around and we even got threatened by a family member that she would report us to the police and social services unless my wife left me and took the kids because we are 'witholding meat' from them.

    Relationships and raising a family isnt easy at the best of times and this issue seems to open up a world of shit for some reason. The one thing I regret is dithering around too much when the kids were first born - I should have raised the possibility of them being veggie from day 1 but didn't for various reasons . . . with this in mind I would really recommend getting the issue agreed as soon as possible so there are no arguments later and also so there is a consistent message communicated to family and friends who may have warped opinions or who may be involved in helping raise the children.

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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the Dad really is not on board...

    Quote cobweb View Post
    If people keep doing what I did, what does that say about veganism?. That we aren't really confident about it as a good choice for our kids?
    That is a very good point Cobweb.

    Hi Rachel-Louise, I really hope you can work things out for the best...........not only for you but your baby too. Have you told your husband how hurtful some of his comments are to you? Does he fully understand how you feel? I think if he really knew how much those kind of comments hurt you he would not want to say them again either to you or your child, would he?
    I think as you will be the one with your child the most it would be quite easy to raise him as a vegan and healthier too. For the first 6 months almost all a baby eats is milk anyway so you would only have to give him soya formula instead of cow's milk. After that it is very easy to make vegan meals for him, my children loved it when I gave them carrot and parsnip mashed up with some potato, followed by pureed fruit for dessert. I mean those shop bought baby meals are just the same sort of thing only they cost a small fortune!
    I really don't understand the attitudes of some meat eaters, Lurker said someone was going to report him to the police for 'witholding meat' from his children. When do you ever hear of vegans threatening to report parents for witholding vegetables from their children?
    I know it's hard for you and your husband to come to an amicable compromise over this but I really hope for your child's sake you are able to. All the very best.
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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board...

    I don't know about a book for a child, but what about Peter Cox's 'Why you don't need meat' for your husband?I know it's a little dated and I'm sure you've explained health benefits etc with him before but if the root of the problem is worrying about nutrition for your child (might or might not be!) this gives lots of plain facts and numbers about avoiding disease, the health risks meat can pose etc and might make him feel a little better about why you would like to raise a child vegan. This book particularly seems to be more scientific than emotionally driven and might allow him to mull over some health facts when not in the heat of an argument. My family friend's son wanted to give up meat when he was about 7 years old but his mum wouldn't allow it because she was scared it would stunt his growth and he would be malnourished, maybe if she hadn't been so misinformed she may have made a different decision. Hope this helps and I'll let you know if I hear of any child friendly books, though Watership Down can still do it for me! And Chicken Run the film might loosely put across a message that the chickens don't want to be eaten. Ok now I'm waffling.....
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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the Dad really is not on board...

    Quote sandra View Post
    I think as you will be the one with your child the most it would be quite easy to raise him as a vegan
    I was thinking this as well. On the assumption that you will be doing most of the feeding couldn't you just go ahead and feed the sprog vegan food, rather than having a big confrontation about it in advance?

    I also wonder whether your other half is saying some of these things about seeing cows as food etc because he is feeling under pressure and is sort of on the defensive? If you can stop discussing it for a while it may turn out that he is more on your wavelength than you think. A lot of people are like that: in fact if I feel people are telling me what to do it makes me want to go and do the exact opposite

    Hope it works out well for you.

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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board...

    Thankyou again for your advice everyone.
    I did want to go ahead and feed him a soy formula but we have been advised against it by health profesionals so obviously my husband has taken that fully on board and so we hae had to agree to disagree and will be feeding Aptimil. But when he is beeing weening I will be blending up mixes for him so I will be in 'control' over what he eats anyway and it will be mostly vegan.

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    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board...

    Quote Rachael-Louise View Post
    Thankyou again for your advice everyone.
    I did want to go ahead and feed him a soy formula but we have been advised against it by health profesionals
    Hope things go well for you.

    I love the way 'health professionals' advocate feeding cow's milk to babies as being 'healthy'...............when it's full of hormones and cholesterol, and then they wonder why even children these days are showing signs of cholesterol build up in their arteries.
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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board...

    Quote Rachael-Louise View Post
    Thankyou again for your advice everyone.
    I did want to go ahead and feed him a soy formula but we have been advised against it by health profesionals so obviously my husband has taken that fully on board and so we hae had to agree to disagree and will be feeding Aptimil. But when he is beeing weening I will be blending up mixes for him so I will be in 'control' over what he eats anyway and it will be mostly vegan.
    When my daughter was born we had some talk about baby formula as well since they wanted to supplement her with formula because of a few different reasons. I didn't have to supplement at all in the end, so I stopped looking into it. But we were given the same advice about soy formula, someone told me soy formula is mostly glucose and it doesn't stand up to other formulas, not so much talking about it being cows milk. I also don't think soy formula is 100% vegan.

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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board...

    If Soy formula wasn't appropriate surely it wouldn't be available on the market? Sounds like a 'health professional' who wants to 'stick to what you know' . .

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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board...

    Quote The Lurker View Post
    I'm a vegan with an omni wife albeit I was veggie when our kids were born. The kids started out omni then we agreed to change them to veggie around the time I went vegan - it's a compromise . . . I feed them vegan whenever I can but it's been a struggle to even convince people that them going veggie is the right thing to do. At the outset family members would sneakily feed them meat when I wasnt around and we even got threatened by a family member that she would report us to the police and social services unless my wife left me and took the kids because we are 'witholding meat' from them.

    Relationships and raising a family isnt easy at the best of times and this issue seems to open up a world of shit for some reason. The one thing I regret is dithering around too much when the kids were first born - I should have raised the possibility of them being veggie from day 1 but didn't for various reasons . . . with this in mind I would really recommend getting the issue agreed as soon as possible so there are no arguments later and also so there is a consistent message communicated to family and friends who may have warped opinions or who may be involved in helping raise the children.
    I completely agree with that it would be best to get this issue agreed on, you really don't want to have returning discussions about what your kid eats or drinks. And also on sending this message towards friends and family members so they know what to do.

    And that certain family member of you sounds vile! Such a shame that some people are so misinformed.

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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board...

    Quote The Lurker View Post
    If Soy formula wasn't appropriate surely it wouldn't be available on the market? Sounds like a 'health professional' who wants to 'stick to what you know' . .
    There is a lot of stuff on the market that isn't suitable for consumption. Just because it's available doesn't mean it's good for you.

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    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board...

    Quote khadagan View Post
    When my daughter was born we had some talk about baby formula as well since they wanted to supplement her with formula because of a few different reasons. I didn't have to supplement at all in the end, so I stopped looking into it. But we were given the same advice about soy formula, someone told me soy formula is mostly glucose and it doesn't stand up to other formulas, not so much talking about it being cows milk. I also don't think soy formula is 100% vegan.
    I'm sure there are vegan soy formula or other plant milk formulas out there. As Lurker said, why would they make a baby formula that was harmful to babies?
    As I said there are already a lot more harmful substances in cow's milk formula and they seem intent on pushing that down babies throats.
    It would be helpful to you if you could actually talk with someone who has brought their child up as a vegan from birth. I wonder if there is anyone on the forum who has done this?
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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board...

    Quote khadagan View Post
    There is a lot of stuff on the market that isn't suitable for consumption. Just because it's available doesn't mean it's good for you.
    Yes, but we're talking about babies here. Surely, they should be more careful with what they consume?
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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board...

    Quote Rachael-Louise View Post
    I will be in 'control' over what he eats anyway and it will be mostly vegan.
    Good luck. If I were you I would read up as much as you can on infant nutrition and then you will be able to answer all those "but where is he getting his x from?" questions confidently. The Vegan Society can probably recommend books, or parents here can I expect.

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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board...

    Quote sandra View Post
    Yes, but we're talking about babies here. Surely, they should be more careful with what they consume?
    Is that really what you think? I would have to disagree with you here. People really don't care that much about what people eat or use unless you'll drop dead from it or makes you ill and it's clear that that particular product caused it. There are loads of food and skin products out there that are completely unsuitable for children or anyone for that matter, but some of them are marketed towards babies.
    Also, look at omni foods, I think they're unsuitable for eating, you might not become ill from it straight away, but they are still unhealthy and being sold everywhere and marketed like it's a healthy option. Have you seen the snacks that they market for toddlers, all the colourings and additives they add to those products, would you think but surely they would care what they put on the market for kids? There are companies out there that make all these products and their big bottom line is are they making plenty of profit, not if it's the best or healthiest possible product out there. Responsibility lies with the consumer. I'm always baffled about how much trust people put into companies, governments, etc and think that people actually are looking out for them.

  31. #31
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board...

    It's such a shame not to be able to breastfeed, that's what babies really need. You must have had a lot of trouble deciding to plan a pregnancy under those conditions, Rachel-Louise, you are braver than me!. And pregnancy is the easy bit, hope you'll have loads of support when you have a small child demanding your attention 24/7!.

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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board...

    Quote sandra View Post
    I'm sure there are vegan soy formula or other plant milk formulas out there. As Lurker said, why would they make a baby formula that was harmful to babies?
    As I said there are already a lot more harmful substances in cow's milk formula and they seem intent on pushing that down babies throats.
    It would be helpful to you if you could actually talk with someone who has brought their child up as a vegan from birth. I wonder if there is anyone on the forum who has done this?
    Well I haven't done much research into soy formulas or any other non-dairy formulas if they are available since I didn't need to, so what I know about this is very limited. And I don't know if soy formula is harmful, I doubt that babies will become very ill from it. I've only been told that it's mainly glucose and that for that reason it isn't suitable to give to babies in the long run, but could be a suitable short term option. But like I said I really don't know much about it. Should I need to know I would be doing my research and make what I think would be the best decision.
    And I've brought my daughter up vegan from birth, she never had anything non-vegan. She's 3 1/2 years now, so still very young still, but healthy and happy and not lacking any nutrients.

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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board...

    Quote harpy View Post
    Good luck. If I were you I would read up as much as you can on infant nutrition and then you will be able to answer all those "but where is he getting his x from?" questions confidently. The Vegan Society can probably recommend books, or parents here can I expect.
    I want to second that. I did lots of reading into vegan nutrition when I turned vegan. In my kitchen I have this huge chart hanging which explains in simple terms and drawings where to find your (vegan) sources of things like calcium, vitamins, etc etc. I love it, whenever we have someone over and asks me again where I get my X from I take them into the kitchen and let them look at the chart.

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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board...

    Quote khadagan View Post
    I want to second that. I did lots of reading into vegan nutrition when I turned vegan. In my kitchen I have this huge chart hanging which explains in simple terms and drawings where to find your (vegan) sources of things like calcium, vitamins, etc etc. I love it, whenever we have someone over and asks me again where I get my X from I take them into the kitchen and let them look at the chart.
    That's such a good idea! Did you make it yourself?
    Even the smallest person can change the course of the future

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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board...

    Quote FaerieSuzy View Post
    That's such a good idea! Did you make it yourself?
    No I didn't unfortunately . I bought it years ago at the vegan fayre for a few pounds in Bristol when I was living there at the time. I've seen the same chart in bigger wholefood stores a few times after this, you can still buy it or something similar, maybe the vegan society online would sell it as well, it's not a rare item. The chart is also a good reminder for myself sometimes when I wonder where to get certain vitamins from. It's not complete by far, but it gives you a general idea. A lot of omni's said they were really surprised about some where they could find certain sources from, somehow the little drawings on it and the way it's made makes it into something that leaves a deeper impression and is easier to read than just listening to me go on and on

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    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board...

    Quote khadagan View Post
    Is that really what you think? I would have to disagree with you here. People really don't care that much about what people eat or use unless you'll drop dead from it or makes you ill and it's clear that that particular product caused it. There are loads of food and skin products out there that are completely unsuitable for children or anyone for that matter, but some of them are marketed towards babies.
    Also, look at omni foods, I think they're unsuitable for eating, you might not become ill from it straight away, but they are still unhealthy and being sold everywhere and marketed like it's a healthy option. Have you seen the snacks that they market for toddlers, all the colourings and additives they add to those products, would you think but surely they would care what they put on the market for kids? There are companies out there that make all these products and their big bottom line is are they making plenty of profit, not if it's the best or healthiest possible product out there. Responsibility lies with the consumer. I'm always baffled about how much trust people put into companies, governments, etc and think that people actually are looking out for them.
    I am talking about food especially aimed at infants. They make those as 'healthy' as possible and do not put any salt or sugar etc into them. Of course the very fact that they put meat in them makes them unhealthy but the majority of the population don't see that.
    As far as soya forumulas for babies, I would think they would make those as healthy as possible too, wouldn't they?
    I totally agree with you about adults though and the unhealthy food aimed at them.
    I do think though that there must be a healthy vegan formula available or if there isn't maybe one of us vegan mothers could manufacture one.
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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board...

    Quote Rachael-Louise View Post
    ...
    Nope, I cant breast feed due to meds, which is hard but I did not really have any alternative as if I did not restart my meds I probably would not be here now, so I guess that was a sacrifice I had to make for our little one in a way.
    Not sure if you'd be interested in this, but there's a group called 'human milk 4 human babies', they have an international website and country-specific groups on facebook - here's the link to the UK one http://www.facebook.com/HM4HBUK?ref=ts

    T
    hey put people with spare milk in touch with people who can't breastfeed for whatever reason. I haven't looked at it in-depth yet, so I'm not sure how they deal with the health risks (such at the fact that diseases as well as immunities can be passed through breast milk), but it might be worth looking into?

    Also, when I was researching anti-depressant usage while breastfeeding (in case I get post natal depression. Obviously I hope not to, but I like to be prepared!) there seemed to be a lot of people saying that there are more benefits to breastfeeding even if you are on the meds, so if you did want to breastfeed you might be able to! (I'm not trying to pressure you to do that, I know it's an emotive subject and my friend's formula-fed daughter seems to be doing really well, I'm just not sure if you've checked with a GP that breastfeeding is incompatible with your meds or are just assuming?)
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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board...

    Quote twinkle View Post
    Not sure if you'd be interested in this, but there's a group called 'human milk 4 human babies', they have an international website and country-specific groups on facebook - here's the link to the UK one http://www.facebook.com/HM4HBUK?ref=ts

    T
    hey put people with spare milk in touch with people who can't breastfeed for whatever reason. I haven't looked at it in-depth yet, so I'm not sure how they deal with the health risks (such at the fact that diseases as well as immunities can be passed through breast milk), but it might be worth looking into?

    Also, when I was researching anti-depressant usage while breastfeeding (in case I get post natal depression. Obviously I hope not to, but I like to be prepared!) there seemed to be a lot of people saying that there are more benefits to breastfeeding even if you are on the meds, so if you did want to breastfeed you might be able to! (I'm not trying to pressure you to do that, I know it's an emotive subject and my friend's formula-fed daughter seems to be doing really well, I'm just not sure if you've checked with a GP that breastfeeding is incompatible with your meds or are just assuming?)
    Thankyou for the link, we had heard about that but to be honest we are against that idea. It is just a bit too weird for me.

    Unfortunatly the medication I am on is a no go for breast feeding, especially since as soon as little one pops out my doses are going to be serverly increased.

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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board...

    Quote twinkle View Post
    Not sure if you'd be interested in this, but there's a group called 'human milk 4 human babies', they have an international website and country-specific groups on facebook - here's the link to the UK one http://www.facebook.com/HM4HBUK?ref=ts

    T
    hey put people with spare milk in touch with people who can't breastfeed for whatever reason. I haven't looked at it in-depth yet, so I'm not sure how they deal with the health risks (such at the fact that diseases as well as immunities can be passed through breast milk), but it might be worth looking into?

    Also, when I was researching anti-depressant usage while breastfeeding (in case I get post natal depression. Obviously I hope not to, but I like to be prepared!) there seemed to be a lot of people saying that there are more benefits to breastfeeding even if you are on the meds, so if you did want to breastfeed you might be able to! (I'm not trying to pressure you to do that, I know it's an emotive subject and my friend's formula-fed daughter seems to be doing really well, I'm just not sure if you've checked with a GP that breastfeeding is incompatible with your meds or are just assuming?)
    I love it that there's that option to give your baby breastmilk, even when it's not your own. I used to know someone who did the same thing, she couldn't breastfeed herself and there was this milkbank that provided her with plenty. I think it's the best next option to your own breastmilk. I would definately go for this option myself before cow's milk formula or soy milk formula since it's by far healthier and better for baby.

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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board...

    Quote sandra View Post
    I am talking about food especially aimed at infants. They make those as 'healthy' as possible and do not put any salt or sugar etc into them. Of course the very fact that they put meat in them makes them unhealthy but the majority of the population don't see that.
    As far as soya forumulas for babies, I would think they would make those as healthy as possible too, wouldn't they?
    I totally agree with you about adults though and the unhealthy food aimed at them.
    I do think though that there must be a healthy vegan formula available or if there isn't maybe one of us vegan mothers could manufacture one.
    I don't think we feel the same way about this. Before any sort of product hits the market there are certain guidelines or conditions that need to be met. Often they're old, outdated, inadequate or even non-existent. Manufacturers will do whatever they need to do to get their product on their market, they will follow the guidelines etc, but just enough so they can market their product and make as much money as they can. That's how everything works. I'm not saying they make their products unhealthy, I just don't think that a lot of options that are considered safe are for that reason also healthy options. Also if it's meant for baby doesn't mean it's good for baby. Baby oil is a particularly bad product (not food I know, but you absorb into your body about 20% of what you put onto your skin). In the past there have been many products recalled like unsafe toys, teethers, etc because they were damaging and sometimes it takes a long time to find the link. I think you should always do your own research and use your common sense and don't follow manufacturers advice blindly assuming that since it is for baby it will be a great thing out there.

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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board...

    Oh yeah and they do put sugars and sweeteners in lots of food aimed at infants and other stuff that you might raise an eyebrow to. Often they use other descriptives to mask certain additives to foods as well so it doesn't put people off buying them and leaves people ignorant if they so wish.

  42. #42
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board

    I've been sitting on my hands trying not to ask this, but why would anyone be 'weirded out' by the thought of taking milk from another (consenting) human's breast, but not be weirded out by taking milk from a non-human mother's breast? (without the animal's knowledge or consent???)

  43. #43
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board

    You know, Rachel-Louise, you say that not being able to breastfeed your baby is a 'sacrifice' that you are making 'for your little one', but it seems to me like your little one is making quite a few sacrifices for you.

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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board

    Quote khadagan View Post
    Oh yeah and they do put sugars and sweeteners in lots of food aimed at infants and other stuff that you might raise an eyebrow to. Often they use other descriptives to mask certain additives to foods as well so it doesn't put people off buying them and leaves people ignorant if they so wish.
    I agree that they put unhealthy stuff in older childrens products but I'm talking about new borns and young infants.............they don't go out of their way to put unhealthy stuff in those products (except of course for the meat thing I've already mentioned) at least over here they don't. So, I can't see why they would have a soya milk formula high in glucose, of course I'm only going on products I've seen in my own country. We will have to agree to disagree on that one Khadagan!

    Quote cobweb View Post
    I've been sitting on my hands trying not to ask this, but why would anyone be 'weirded out' by the thought of taking milk from another (consenting) human's breast, but not be weirded out by taking milk from a non-human mother's breast? (without the animal's knowledge or consent???)
    Exactly, this baffles me too.
    It's the same as some people I know who will happily drink cow's milk and eat cheese but put on disgusted faces at the thought of eating goats milk or cheese. What's the difference? It's all milk from another living beings body, the only difference is, when it's taken from human beings it's with consent.
    I like Sandra, she keeps making me giggle. Daft little lady - Frosty

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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the Dad really is not on board...

    ^ It's the same with women breastfeeding in public. They often turn heads and some people are really outraged and upset by the "spectacle". But those same people have no problems watching non-human animals feed their offspring on farms, in zoo's or documentaries on TV, or even watching those non-human animals being milked by human animals. It's just speciesism.

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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board

    Quote cobweb View Post
    You know, Rachel-Louise, you say that not being able to breastfeed your baby is a 'sacrifice' that you are making 'for your little one', but it seems to me like your little one is making quite a few sacrifices for you.
    I am not going to argue this Cobweb, I know a lot of mothers who have chosen not to breastfeed and have used formula for their babies and they have grown up to be very happy and healthy babies so the fact that I am not actually able to breastfeed due to ill health and have chosen that the best path for our baby is formula after talking to many health professionals about it, is our choice and I am not going to be made to feel bad about this.
    The sacrifice in which I have had to make has actually kept me alive! So I would say that I have done the right thing as if I had not restarted my medication in the knoladge that I would not be able to breastfeed I would probably be dead now and that is no exageration.
    I want this baby so much which is why I had to make that sacrifice, touch wood baby is doing well and is due to be born in under 7 weeks now and I can not wait to meet him.

  47. #47
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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board

    I was thinking more about the sacrifices that a baby is forced into making when being born to a parent with very serious mental health problems actually. I'm glad you see no issues with this or the lack of breastfeeding, and I hope it all turns out well for you and your baby, and that you can sort out all your problems with your relationship (going on this thread and other posts you made last year). This thread reminds me of some previous debates about animals and pet ownership..........

  48. #48
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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board

    I think I will have to stop looking at this thread as there's something about this whole thing that makes me feel very uneasy, I feel concerned for the child, that's the truth . I would just never have planned a baby for myself, especially if I knew I had such serious problems that somebody would have to stay home with me and help me in and out of bed, to the bathroom, etc.... If you can get into that kind of state you have no business having children, that is my opinion and actually I don't care if people think that's nasty .

    It isn't ANY of my business, of course, it's nobody else's business - but you made it other people's business by asking about here in a public forum.

    We're obviously vegans here so I can't see anyone supporting the idea of yours to give your baby non-vegan 'food' items. You say that your husband is a very supportive partner so you'd probably be better off discussing your family business with him .

    Anyway, I'm not here to try and upset people, especially pregnant people who have enough to worry about, but I am feeling annoyed, because I think human beings can be extremely selfish when it comes to their desire for creating more humans, no matter what . So I will shove off now and focus on something else before I get painted as the Devil Incarnate.

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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board

    [QUOTE=sandra;687299]I agree that they put unhealthy stuff in older childrens products but I'm talking about new borns and young infants.............they don't go out of their way to put unhealthy stuff in those products (except of course for the meat thing I've already mentioned) at least over here they don't. So, I can't see why they would have a soya milk formula high in glucose, of course I'm only going on products I've seen in my own country. We will have to agree to disagree on that one Khadagan!

    That's fine! lol We don't have to agree The soy milk formula I was talking about was in the UK btw, I've been told that the basis is glucose. But again, I really have to add that I'm not an expert and havent done much research into it. I think I made my point about not just blindly trusting manufacturers, that's what I wanted to put across. And if I were to supplement my baby or give milk and it couldn't be my own breastmilk I would put all the research in and decide what I would think would be the best and healthiest option for my baby, I would prefer a vegan option by far, but obviously not if I would compromise my child's health.

    I would much prefer mother's milk from another mother over cow's milk formula btw and have absolutely no problems giving another mother's milk to my child if I couldn't give my own. Thank you Cobweb for bringing this up as well! Eventhough I read at the bottom of the thread that this discussion makes you feel uneasy. I think it's a very fair point and I completely agree with you! I think it's also a really interesting discussion. I understand the initial hesitation that someone might have, but it's the same hesitation I would have with any new product I would be using or certain food items that are normal to use in some countries, but not in others, it's just what you're used to. Only since recent have I been making water kefir and making my own yoghurt and such. I felt really weird drinking something with bacteria in it that I made myself and it felt a bit icky at first, but the facts are that it's very healthy and good for you and you just have to step over that first hurdle a couple of times. I think it might be the same with other mother's milk. There are so many beneficial things in mother's milk that will help your baby as he or she takes it, in the next few years and throughout his or her entire life. There are huge lists of benefits to be found on the internet. With cow's milk there are a lot of things that are missing, with any sort of formula for that reason because they can't synthesize all the wonderful things that can be found in breastmilk. So it's better for baby's health, long and short term, like Catwoman said it's taken with consent, you are not supporting animal cruelty and exploitation. I think just get over it if you can have access to breastmilk, everyone comes out better because of it.

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    Default Re: Raising a baby vegetarian when the dad really is not on board

    Quote cobweb View Post
    I think I will have to stop looking at this thread as there's something about this whole thing that makes me feel very uneasy, I feel concerned for the child, that's the truth . I would just never have planned a baby for myself, especially if I knew I had such serious problems that somebody would have to stay home with me and help me in and out of bed, to the bathroom, etc.... If you can get into that kind of state you have no business having children, that is my opinion and actually I don't care if people think that's nasty .

    It isn't ANY of my business, of course, it's nobody else's business - but you made it other people's business by asking about here in a public forum.

    We're obviously vegans here so I can't see anyone supporting the idea of yours to give your baby non-vegan 'food' items. You say that your husband is a very supportive partner so you'd probably be better off discussing your family business with him .

    Anyway, I'm not here to try and upset people, especially pregnant people who have enough to worry about, but I am feeling annoyed, because I think human beings can be extremely selfish when it comes to their desire for creating more humans, no matter what . So I will shove off now and focus on something else before I get painted as the Devil Incarnate.
    Cobweb I think in all honesty you have been extremely insensitive.
    When we planned to try for a baby I was in a much better frame of mind and had been for a while hence our decision to start a family, I had the breakdown due to coming off my meds for fear of what they may do to an unborn baby, that was a mistake as I clearly need them, so the breakdown probably would not have happened if I had continued on my medication from day one as was advised. A breakdown is something you can not control and if you have any understanding in regards to health then you would know that, it is just something that people with mental health illnesses are a bit more subseptiable to due to the lack of seretonium in their brains, however anyone can have a breakdown at any point in their lives!
    I am ready to be a mother and my husband is ready to be a father, we are ready to be parents. We know it is not going to be easy, it is not easy for anyone and yes it will be harder for us because I have mental health issues but that by no means makes me unfit to be a mother, I love this baby so much already and I know that I am going to love and cherish him forever!
    Our marriage does not need 'sorting out' just because we disagree on something it does not mean we are in trouble, I think you are very nieve if you think every married couple out there agree on everything- it just is not the case. Yes it is a big thing to not agree on but that is something we deal with.
    Now I came on this forum asking advice on what books I can buy to help explain vegetarianism to my child, not whether you think I am going to be a fit mother, so this will be the last post I post on this thread because I am in no fit state to be arguing, I do not want to upset my baby!!

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