Eating out in France

[redshoes]

I'm probably going to France next year to stay at the other half's parent's holiday place with several family members. I'm not a fully fledged vegan yet (I'm taking baby steps) but by then I should be. I will be the only one. Not even a vegetarian amongst them. I went to the same place earlier this year but with a lot less people. We mostly ate 'at home'/self catered which was great and I did it almost totally vegan but when eating out I tried to keep my meals as vegetarian as possible (eggs or cheese eggs or cheese eggs or....tummy ache. Sigh. Not to mention, boring.) and I had a keen eye on the menus to see what would be possible for a vegan. Umm, that would be nothing then. It doesn't help that wheat doesn't agree with me, which can narrow the choices further.

If it was down to me, I wouldn't eat out at all while there but this will be for a special occassion and I think we'll probably eat out at least a couple of times, perhaps more. It's only a small place in France, I know there is a vegetarian friendly restaurant somewhere in the area but I can tell you this for sure, it will not be an option. Dead cert. It's not down to me and I will have to go with the majority 'where's the best meat/traditional French restaurant?' point of view (forget couscous places or other non-French, they will not go for that while in France) Having experienced the place already, I know I'll be pretty screwed foodwise. I totally hate causing fuss or sticking out and I know that French chefs and waiters tend to get offended and sniffy if you want to change things anyway, let alone have something vegan! Plus I have very little in the way of French language skills. Anybody care to wave a magic wand? Or at least share any advice? All I can think of is if we at least don't eat out on the hoof and have a booking, then someone with better French than me might be able to get them to agree to make a vegan meal when making the booking. I can imagine though that most of the time we'll just be choosing somewhere to eat by looking around at dinner and lunch times.

[CoolCat]

I never needed it but there is a booklet called "The Vegan Passport" with a page in just about every language explaining what vegan is. I assume it would have a French page as well. Googling it it seems to retail for GBP 4.99 / USD 8.00. Seems a worthwhile investment. Learn how to say "I don't speak French very well but I have this" so you can say something when you stick that page in their faces Maybe learn "can you show this to the chef and ask if he can suggest something?" as well so they take the book itself to the kitchen and half of the message isn't lost in the communication between the front of house and the kitchen.

As for places to eat, do you have to follow the group, or could you two just do your own thing? Scout out places and then try those as a couple on a romantic date? Personally I would prefer not having to waste my holiday with a whole bunch of carnies/inlaws arround.

[Blueberries]

I know there are a few French people knocking about the forum with much better French than me, but I can give you enough vegan French to be understood.

Sample phrases:

'Je ne parle pas Francais très bien mais je suis vegetalienne'- I don't speak French very well but I am vegan

'Je ne peux pas manger des produits animaux'- I can't eat animal products

'Je ne mange pas de beurre, lait, crème, fromage, oeuf, viande, poisson ou poulet': I don't eat butter, milk, cream, cheese, eggs, meat, fish or chicken

'Je peux manger des légumes, des fruits, des haricots, des noix, des champignons, des herbes, des pâtes, du riz et des autres grains': I can eat vegetables, fruit, beans, nuts, mushrooms, herbs, pasta, rice and other grains

I know it might sound redundant to say 'milk and butter' instead of 'dairy' but it helps to as specific as possible, as sometimes chefs don't really think about what is and isn't an animal product!

Good luck with your trip, you never know you might find something unexpectedly great to eat, be positive!

[CoolCat]

Pasta can easily be with eggs/egg yolks. I would exclude it from the list.

[Blueberries]

Des pâtes secs sans oeufs ou les jaunes des ouefs: Dried pasta without egg or egg yolk

[redshoes]

Thanks both for your help. Very useful suggestions. Coolcat, I will definitely invest in The Vegan Passport. That sounds like it would be a great help. I'm not sure how long it would be for, long weekend or week. If the former, I don't think we could break away from the main group without it appearing rude. It would be a close family group and it's meant to be a rare opportunity to spend time together, away from all the peripheral family/friends. Even when I ate meat, I could never pack it away like they do. Small wonder one of them suffers from gout but apparently it's only 'alcohol related'....hmm. Apart from that, they're lovely people, honest!

Thanks so much for the phrases, Blueberries. They're going into my notebook. You're right, I should think positive and not as is my wont, fret more than a year in advance!

[harpy]

To be honest I haven't had much luck in French places (as opposed to "ethnic" places) in France - if I have to go to one I try to pick things off the menu that are more or less vegan - tomato salad is a good bet and chips can be too (I don't think they go in for cooking them in meat fat as much as people do here but I might be wrong). They sometimes have fruit too.

I have found ordering stuff like this works better than trying to get them to adapt things, which they often won't :-/ (I do speak reasonable French so it's not for want of communicating my request properly!). They don't seem to mind too much if you order a "peculiar" meal off the menu and if you're with a group they may hardly even notice that.

You can fill up before or after the meal on nuts and things.

[redshoes]

Yes, I think it will be tricky as it will definitely be traditional French restaurants we'll be eating in. Hopefully a party of eight will make them a little flexible for the vegan. I'll try to stick to things like salad and make sure it doesn't come with lardons or an egg etc. Shame they're not big on vegetables, even when I ate meat/fish and went to France I was always dismayed by the lack of veg on my plate. But then, I've always been big on vege's and not particulary a fan of meat. I'll definitely take some nuts and things with me. I took a lot of foody bits & pieces last time as we took our car and probably will this time around too.

[harpy]

Funny thing is French people are actually big on vegetables (to judge by my French relatives, and also the lovely stuff they sell in the markets etc). They just don't seem to want to give them to you, in restaurants anyway! I'm sure you'll be fine with a bit of planning.

[redshoes]

I know, it's funny isn't it? Maybe it's a case of the meat's the star on your plate at a restaurant. I love going to markets in France and buying lots of fruit and veg. Very nice. I think even the selection of fruit and veg in their supermarkets is superior to what we get here. Less over packaging too. Maybe we should move...

[Elli]

Hi,
I'm french but I never eat at 'traditionnal' restaurant because most of the times, people will want to get into a debate about veganism with you if you ask for a vegan meal and if you just list all the ingredients you don't want without stating that you're vegan, they're very likely to make a mistake. But maybe they won't be so stubborn if they cannot argue with you because of the language barrier. lol
What you could do is ask for a plate composed with all the side dishes available (usually french fries, various vegetables and pastas) and that might work.
I also advise you to get stuff to eat from supermarkets or organic shops in case you're still hungry after the meal.

Bon voyage !

[Andy_T]

But make sure that they should not smother the side dishes or vegetables in butter, as they normally do....

I have had good experiences in France and bad, but in general I got the impression that a vegan is seen as something unnatural and un-French by the majority of French.

Best regards,
Andy

[Barry]

je suis vegetalienne'

That phrase has never worked for me in France. Seriously, I must have tried it about 50 times throughout my various trips to France. Never. Not once.

[Andy_T]

Of course not, with that beard on your face. You have to say "Je suis vegetalien."

j/k, it has worked for me - in the meaning that people understood what I wanted. Not so much in the meaning that they immediately were able to offer something from the menu...

Best regards,
Andy

[Barry]

Of course not, with that beard on your face.

??

[redshoes]

Thanks for all the advice, everyone. It's good to know what I might be up against! Forewarned and all that. I think I'm gonna to have to tough it out and keep some goodies back at the house for a midnight feast, just in case. The family members concerned are aware I've given up meat but don't yet know I'm working towards being a vegan. Closer to the time I will make them aware of the problems that will probably crop up. Maybe they will be more flexible about where we eat out.

[harpy]

"Vegetalienne" is the female version, Barry I haven't got far with it either though - vegetarian and macrobiotic restaurants in Paris understand it but no one else does IME.

[Elli]

"Végétalienne" is the feminine form.
But végétalien/ne means dietary vegan so I prefer to use the word vegan with a french pronounciation to imply that it is for ethical reasons.

Most people in France don't know what is veganism, they confuse pescetarianism with vegetarianism and ovo-lacto-vegetarianism with veganism. I usually say that I'm végétalienne/vegan here in restaurants only so that people get used to the word but then, I still explain everything (I don't eat meat, fish, poultry, dairy products including butter, eggs, honey...)
And I never eat at french restaurants (except for vegetarian ones but there aren't so many), I prefer lebanese, turkish, indian, chinese... lol

Yes of course, as Andy_T said, you should ask about the butter in the side dish but if it's french fries or ratatouille for example, you should be fine. Otherwise, you're indeed left with the green salad!

[Barry]

Brilliant. I wondered why that waiter tried to grab my bum.

[harpy]

Heheh.

Mind you a lot of British restaurants are still a bit vague about what veganism is as well so one shouldn't be too hard on the French!

That's interesting that "végétalien/ne" means "dietary vegan" Elli - I hadn't realised that.

[Elli]

Let's say that "végétalien/ne" can mean "vegan" as in someone who is vegan for animal rights but if you use the word vegan (sometimes written "végan/e"), it is for sure for ethical reasons toward animals and cannot be confused with a dietary choice.
If you say "je suis végétalien/ne", you might be asked the questions "is it for health? for the environment?" etc... but the word "vegan" is only used for animal rights. Of course, you can be "végétalien/ne" for animal rights too, but it's not limited to that and as "végétalien/ne" only refers to your diet so you can be "végétalien/ne" and still wear leather, fur, use cosmetics tested on animals etc... Not commonly seen of course, but it wouldn't be contradictory! lol

[harpy]

I see, thanks for explaining, Elli. Some people do (incorrectly) use "vegan" that way as well but I don't think we'd better get started on that one again

[maggielassie]

Vegetarian restaurants in France will almost always have vegan options, but you've got to look for the addresses of those places on the Net. I'm sure there are online veggie guides in English, but (since I'm bilingual) I tend to visit the French veg*n websites before I go there. I go to France once a year but I try to avoid eating out as much as I can. When my parents really want to go to a place somewhere, I avoid it if it's a BBQ or steak place. Otherwise, in terms of regular restaurants, I bring my own packed lunch if I have to...

Which area in France are you going to, Redshoes? I could recommend some places if they're near where you're going...

I'm glad I live in UK. Here it's a tiny bit less meat-centric than in France.

[Milady Froggy]

I'm French and many people there still don't understand what vegetarian means, let alone vegan !!!
But the vegan offer is getting better, especially in very big cities. There are more and more veggie places and organic shops, where you can get vegan things.

[TarekF]

There are always pomme frites! I remember when i was veggie and my dad was vegan, our family dragged us to a steakhouse in Beirut (a french steakhouse too) and while i managed to find a cheesy pasta, he ordered a gargantuan plate of fries. It was awesome, and ive followed his example when there several times. At least its got some substance to it and its not just a salad eh? And its something every restaurant will have (i think)

Hope this helps a bit

[Milady Froggy]

Absolutely Tarek ! Just check the oil they use is vegetal, as some places still use animal oil ... :-(

[yo-yo]

Definitely ask what the potatoes/chips are cooked in. I went to a French place to eat last year in Brighton and naively ordered chips, only to find out they were actually cooked in goose fat
I am going to France next year for my friend's wedding and she is having problems getting the caterers to understand what vegan is..
Vegan passport sounds like a good idea, wish I had thought of that for my recent trip to Spain!