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Thread: Magnesium deficiency/supplementation

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    Abe Froman Risker's Avatar
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    Default Magnesium deficiency/supplementation

    I've been reading about the need for sufficient magnesium in the body lately and been wondering if it would be a good idea to take a supplement.

    Here's an excerpt from wikipedia on the symptoms of deficiency;

    Symptoms

    Symptoms of magnesium deficiency include: hyperexcitability, muscle weakness and fatigue.[1] Severe magnesium deficiency can cause hypocalcemia, low serum potassium levels (hypokalemia), retention of sodium, low circulating levels of PTH, neurological and muscular symptoms (tremor, muscle spasms, tetany), loss of appetite, nausea, vomiting, personality changes [2] and death from heart failure.[3] Magnesium plays an important role in carbohydrate metabolism and its deficiency may worsen insulin resistance, a condition that often precedes diabetes, or may be a consequence of insulin resistance.[4] Deficiency can cause irregular heart beats.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesi...%28medicine%29

    The EC RDA of magnesium citrate is 300mg. It seems to vary dependant on the source of the magnesium since some magnesium sources are less bioavailable such as the cheaper magnesium oxide. (Holland & Barrett magnesium oxide 250mg tablets only count as 67% of RDA whereas 300mg magnesium citrate counts as 100%)


    Sources of magnesium




    Food Magnesium Content
    (milligrams per 100g)
    Pumpkin seeds (roasted) 532
    Almonds 300
    Brazil nuts 225
    Sesame seeds 200
    Peanuts (roasted, salted) 183
    Walnuts 158
    Rice (whole grain brown) 110
    Wholemeal bread 85
    Spinach 80
    Cooked beans 40
    Broccoli 30
    Banana 29
    Potato (baked) 25
    White bread 20
    Cow's milk
    10
    Rice (white) 6
    Apple 4


    http://www.gvtc.co.uk/articles/article008.html

    Vegan sources of magnesium

    Now personally, I don't think I get nearly 300mg from natural sources. I can see that you could, but we don't, not least because the best sources are expensive and fattening.

  2. #2
    whalespace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magnesium Deficiency/Supplementation

    I'm repeating myself but I read a bit about calcium induced magnesium deficiency [which has also been linked with depression].

    Because calcium and magnesium have the same valency [they are both in group 2 of periodic table...having two electrons in their outer shell], they both 'bind' to similar substances. Calcium is more reactive and so displaces magnesium... or maybe does not 'let go' for magnesium.

    Put more simply, too much calcium can crowd out your magnesium... so less calcium could mean you need to put in less magnesium.

    I read a small study recently which seemed to indicate that people with lower [mineral] levels tended to absorb more of that mineral than others in the study [same diet] whom already had more in their 'blood system'.
    Problematic is waking someone whom pretends to sleep.

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    whalespace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magnesium Deficiency/Supplementation

    Further, I read that chlorophyll contains a porphyrin ring in which sits a magnesium atom.
    Magnesium deficient leaves go yellow [not an uncommon symptom mind you].

    For interest, though digression, there is a porphyrin ring in haemoglobin, in which sits an iron atom.

    ...though perhaps it was all a dream.

    Edit : No , see Chemical Structure at this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorophyll

    Chlorophyll is a
    chlorin pigment, which is structurally similar to and produced through the same metabolic pathway as other porphyrin pigments such as heme. At the center of the chlorin ring is a magnesium ion.

    Problematic is waking someone whom pretends to sleep.

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    Abe Froman Risker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magnesium Deficiency/Supplementation

    Quote whalespace View Post
    Further, I read that chlorophyll contains a porphyrin ring in which sits a magnesium atom.
    Magnesium deficient leaves go yellow [not an uncommon symptom mind you].
    That's actually what drew my attention to the whole thing, I've had to feed my plants epsom salts lately.

    Apparently you can supplement with epsom salts but as it's not one of the most effective sources of magnesium you have to take it to "bowel tolerance". Meaning you keep upping your dose it until it gives you diarrhoea then drop it back a bit. Can't say I fancy the idea.

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    whalespace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magnesium Deficiency/Supplementation

    I was thinking that green leafy vegetables would provide magnesium. I guess there might be ways of making that magnesium more absorbable. If citrate is absorbable then there is a recipe. Zinc citrate is also absorbable. There might be a problem with too much citric acid, because i think calcium citrate is not absorbable; therefore beware cramps. However, considering the high levels of calcium in green leafys, maybe the recipe will work nicely.

    Have you got a liquidiser?
    Care with numbers.

    Another opportunity for me to sing the praises of black treacle [I would push molasses but I can't afford it]:
    100g of black stuff yields:
    Magnesium = 130mg;
    Calcium = 500mg;
    Iron = 14mg;
    Iodine = 100mg....

    With less sugar than an immense apple.
    Problematic is waking someone whom pretends to sleep.

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    Abe Froman Risker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magnesium deficiency/supplementation

    ^ I don't think I could eat 230g of treacle a day and it would be expensive.

    I've bought some magnesium citrate tablets now, they're huge and you need 3 of them a day (100mg each). It says on the bottle to take them with meals but I've read elsewhere you should take them on an empty stomach with some water... Not sure what to do now.

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    Default Re: Magnesium deficiency/supplementation

    Thanks for bringing this up - definitely something that needs some researching into.
    I think that there are a lot more sources of magnesium than the list above shows. This site: http://www.healthaliciousness.com/ar...-magnesium.php, lists dried herbs, cocoa powder and cooked soya beans (maybe that includes soya milk) as being good sources as well as those listed.

    This website: http://www.healthalternatives2000.co...ion-chart.html also lists more sources including soya milk:
    Magnesium is needed for bone, protein, making new cells, activating B vitamins, relaxing nerves and muscles, clotting blood, and in energy production.
    Insulin secretion and function also requires magnesium. Magnesium also assists in the absorption of calcium, vitamin C and potassium.
    Deficiency may result in fatigue, nervousness, insomnia, heart problems, high blood pressure, osteoporosis, muscle weakness and cramps.
    Fruits:
    Avocado
    Banana
    Blackberries
    Blackcurrants
    Breadfruit
    Cherimoya
    Dates
    Guava
    Kiwi
    Loganberries
    Mulberries
    Passion Fruit
    Pomegranate
    Prickly Pear
    Raspberries
    Watermelon
    Vegetables:
    Amaranth leaves
    Artichoke
    Butternut squash
    French Beans
    Lima Beans
    Okra
    Peas
    Spirulina
    Swiss Chard
    Nuts:
    Almonds
    Amaranth
    Brazil Nuts
    Buckwheat
    Cashews
    Oats
    Peanuts
    Pine Nuts/Pignolias
    Pumpkin Seeds
    Quinoa
    Rye
    Wheat - Durum
    Wheat - Hard Red
    Wheat - Hard White
    Meat and Proteins:
    Beef
    Cheddar Cheese
    Caviar
    Cod
    Herring
    Perch
    Pollock
    Salmon
    Sardines
    Tuna
    Goat Milk
    Soy Beans
    Soy Milk
    Lowfat Yogurt
    Most legumes are a good source of Magnesium but these are the highest.
    Adzuki Beans
    Black Beans
    Black Eye Peas
    Edamame
    Navy Beans
    Pinto Beans
    Soy Beans
    White Beans
    Winged Beans


    This site: http://healing.about.com/od/dietandf...esiumfacts.htm also claims that we get some magnesium through water.

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    Abe Froman Risker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magnesium deficiency/supplementation

    Quote Firestorm View Post
    Thanks for bringing this up - definitely something that needs some researching into.
    I think that there are a lot more sources of magnesium than the list above shows. This site: http://www.healthaliciousness.com/ar...-magnesium.php, lists dried herbs, cocoa powder and cooked soya beans (maybe that includes soya milk) as being good sources as well as those listed.
    If you look at the second link below the table I posted there's a much more detailed list, still, it doesn't seem easy to get 300mg a day.

    Quote Firestorm View Post
    This site: http://healing.about.com/od/dietandf...esiumfacts.htm also claims that we get some magnesium through water.
    I read that too on another site and I went to our water suppliers website to see what was in our water. Despite being a hard water area there was no magnesium listed. Not sure if that means that it wasn't tested for or that there just wasn't any.

    EDIT: Apparently it's not checked for.

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    Default Re: Magnesium deficiency/supplementation

    Quote Risker View Post
    If you look at the second link below the table I posted there's a much more detailed list, still, it doesn't seem easy to get 300mg a day.
    Oops - didn't see that link.

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    Default Re: Magnesium deficiency/supplementation

    United utilities does list magnesium in my area but its a max of 26mg per litre. Not a great amount really

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    Default Re: Magnesium deficiency/supplementation

    I reckon 26mg / litre is pretty good for 'free', and not toxic.

    If treacle is too expensive [54pence per 454 grammes at well known multinational], then I'm guessing spinach is prohibitive. Maybe beech, or birch leaves then.?.. could be more bitter than liquidised lawn grass. Lawn grass sounds nasty, but call it "wheatgrass" and suddenly 'vegan' stallholders are charging three quid a shot.

    I need some grass seed for a lawn patch... might manage to sprout some... wonder if I could soak them in something conducive? [again no "hmmm , thinking" smiley]
    So glad the liquidiser is not too energy hungry.
    Problematic is waking someone whom pretends to sleep.

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    Abe Froman Risker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magnesium deficiency/supplementation

    Quote whalespace View Post
    If treacle is too expensive [54pence per 454 grammes at well known multinational], then I'm guessing spinach is prohibitive. Maybe beech, or birch leaves then.?.. could be more bitter than liquidised lawn grass. Lawn grass sounds nasty, but call it "wheatgrass" and suddenly 'vegan' stallholders are charging three quid a shot.
    54p? Really? I kinda just assumed it would be expensive. Still, 230g of treacle a day... Not sure I could manage that.

    We do eat spinach, frequently, but 375g is rather a lot to eat a day and it is fairly expensive.

    I know it can be done without supplementation just that I don't think we do and I'd rather supplement than forcing a magnesium rich diet on myself rather than just a good varied diet.

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    jackie's Avatar
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    I get most of mine from spinach. 400G a day and that's all your magnesium. I add it to salads, soups, curries. It shrinks down to nothing when cooked and doesn't have that much flavour so it's like a hidden super food.high in calcium too.
    Recognize meat for what it really is: the antibiotic- and pesticide-laden corpse of a tortured animal. ~Ingrid Newkirk

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    Default Re: Magnesium deficiency/supplementation

    I thought the oxalate in spinach might interfere with magnesium absorption? http://journals.cambridge.org/downlo...d3eff3d6c22b2f

    Looking at the lists I tend to eat several of the things on a given day so I would have hoped it added up to 300mg but I haven't actually done the sums Strengthens my conviction that pumpkin seed butter is a good thing to have on one's toast - annoying that our H&B has stopped selling it though.

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    Quote harpy View Post
    I thought the oxalate in spinach might interfere with magnesium absorption? .
    Oh no, really? There's always a snag.....
    Recognize meat for what it really is: the antibiotic- and pesticide-laden corpse of a tortured animal. ~Ingrid Newkirk

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    Default Re: Magnesium deficiency/supplementation

    I expect you still absorb some...kale seems to be the way to go from that point of view, but it's not always so easy to find, is it?

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    Trouble with kale is can't really add it to salads. For me it's nicer cooked.
    Recognize meat for what it really is: the antibiotic- and pesticide-laden corpse of a tortured animal. ~Ingrid Newkirk

  18. #18
    Abe Froman Risker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magnesium deficiency/supplementation

    Bad news...

    When we boil, steam or broil food it removes the magnesium.
    http://asleepeasy.com/magnesium-sleep/

    Still, it says removes and not destroys so if it's in a soup etc. you should still get it I think, just if you use a cooking method like boiling or steaming where it can be transferred in to the cooking water seems to be the problem. But then you could drink the cooking water.

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    Default Re: Magnesium deficiency/supplementation

    I use supplements just about every day. I know there are potential snags but I like to be sure.

    Although boiling [etc.] damages vitamins, I think the heat could be beneficial in the case of minerals.

    Non sprouted seeds contain phytic acid [like oxalic acid], or inositol hexaphosphate too. So the pumpkin seed butter might result in some oxalates aswell.

    Cool, I just found a table with phytic acid quantities . I like wikipedia :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytic_acid
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    Default Re: Magnesium deficiency/supplementation

    Quote whalespace View Post
    I reckon 26mg / litre is pretty good for 'free', and not toxic.
    Thats the maximum level, the minimum is 8, the average is 15 but its better than nothing

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    Default Re: Magnesium deficiency/supplementation

    Quote Risker View Post
    54p? Really? I kinda just assumed it would be expensive. Still, 230g of treacle a day... Not sure I could manage that.
    As low as 42 pence, as high as 75 pence in the same shop [tesco], within shortish time span .
    Of course we don't need to get all of our minerals from one single source.
    I think a value for dose per relevant bodyweight would also be useful.
    RDAs are a rough guide aren't they? I wonder if the non absorbability of many sources of dietary essentials has been factored into the RDA?
    Presumably the amount required to go into a body is calculated using the mass coming out of a body... and maybe blood assays . It is easy to assume that every avenue was investigated [though in the case of food, they probably were]. It must have been tricky though, because when you begin to withdraw certain minerals from the test subject, then you trigger the body's homeostatic mechanisms.
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    Abe Froman Risker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magnesium deficiency/supplementation

    Current public health recommendations for magnesium intake

    In 1997, the Institute of Medicine at the National Academy of Sciences created new recommendations for magnesium. They established the following Adequate Intake (AI) levels for infants up to one year old and the following Recommended Dietary Allowances (RDAs) for all people older than one year old:

    • 0-6 months: 30 milligrams
    • 6-12 months: 75 milligrams
    • 1-3 years: 80 milligrams
    • 4-8 years: 130 milligrams
    • 9-13 years: 240 milligrams
    • Males 14-18 years: 410 milligrams
    • Males 19-30 years: 400 milligrams
    • Males 31 years and older: 420 milligrams
    • Females 14-18 years: 360 milligrams
    • Females 19-30 years: 310 milligrams
    • Females 31 years and older: 320 milligrams
    • Pregnant women 18 years or younger: 400 milligrams
    • Pregnant women 19-30 years: 350 milligrams
    • Pregnant women 31-50 years: 360 milligrams
    • Lactating women 18 years or younger: 360 milligrams
    • Lactating women 19-30 years: 310 milligrams
    • lactating women, 31-50 years: 320 milligrams
    http://www.salugenecists.com/genpage...trient&dbid=75

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    Default Re: Magnesium deficiency/supplementation

    I can get almonds for about 60p per 100g if I buy them in bulk from the Asian food section of supermarkets. I might struggle to eat 100g, but 50g isn't too difficult to consume. I tend to soak them as part of overnight oats, or make almond butter, but have also ground them up and added to cake mixture.

    I think I probably get most of my magnesium from wholemeal bread and multivitamins though.
    "If you don't have a song to sing you're okay, you know how to get along humming" Waltz (better than fine) - Fiona Apple

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    Abe Froman Risker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magnesium deficiency/supplementation

    Multivitamins tend to use magnesium oxide which I've read has as low as 4% bioavailability.

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    Default Re: Magnesium deficiency/supplementation

    Yeah, scrap what I said about multivits, I checked after posting and the amount isn't very high at all. So here's another thing for me to worry about!
    "If you don't have a song to sing you're okay, you know how to get along humming" Waltz (better than fine) - Fiona Apple

  26. #26
    Abe Froman Risker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magnesium deficiency/supplementation

    Today I got a 400g bag of roasted, salted peanuts from Tesco for 96p

    Per 100g (24p)

    595 calories (bit much!)
    Protein 26.5g
    Carbohydrate 13.7g
    of which sugars 6.9g
    Fat 48.1g (that explains the calories)
    of which saturates 5.8g
    mono-unsaturates 36.6g
    polyunsaturates 3.3g
    Fibre 6.2g
    Sodium 0.3g
    Salt equivalent 0.8g (not too bad actually, I was expecting worse)
    Phosphorus 410mg (51% RDA)
    Magnesium 180mg (60% RDA)

    I think peanuts could be a good solution (for me anyway), just have to be watch the belly.

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    Default Re: Magnesium deficiency/supplementation

    Plus you get to eat loads of gorgeous peanuts everyday!

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Magnesium deficiency/supplementation

    You can rinse the salt off too.
    Problematic is waking someone whom pretends to sleep.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Magnesium deficiency/supplementation

    Quote whalespace View Post
    You can rinse the salt off too.


    You're funny.

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    Default Re: Magnesium deficiency/supplementation

    My aunt used to wash the salt of peanuts for my uncle (he had to reduce his salt intake). She came home one day and found him re-salting them!

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