Veganism in Europe

[TheClassyVegan]

OK so here is the situation:
I am a 15 year old American Vegan (for the animal cruelty, not just to be"natural" or anything) and I might be traveling to live with some friends of the family in Europe next summer.
I have some questions...
(I appologize if these sound silly, I am sort of a new Vegan.)
1. Regarding the food industry in Europe, is it just as inhumane and cruel there as it is in America?
2. I barely know these people I may be staying with. Do you think I should refuse their hard-work and their meat and animal-product filled meals and demand they buy me animal-free shampoos and such? Or should I be thankful, kind, respectful, and considerate and just eat what they make me and use what they buy me? (Basically, should I be a jerk and stand up for what I believe in, or should I give up everything I stand for in order to be a humble, grateful guest?)


Thank you SO much,
TheClassyVegan

[Korn]

"Do you think I should refuse their hard-work and their meat and animal-product filled meals and demand they buy me animal-free shampoos and such? Or should I be thankful, kind, respectful, and considerate and just eat what they make me and use what they buy me? (Basically, should I be a jerk and stand up for what I believe in, or should I give up everything I stand for in order to be a humble, grateful guest?"


Hi,

by looking at the way you have been wording your question, it certainly looks as if you have made up your mind already.

My answer would be that I wouldn't voluntarily put myself in a situation where I either had to eat meat or be a jerk/not thankful/unkind/not respectful/inconsiderate. Such a situation would definitely be on my list of what *not* to do next summer. I'm not going to do something disrespectful/unkind against animals (kill/eat them) just to appear as a kind and respectful person towards someone else - someone I don't even know... (not that I would have killed an animal to please a human even if I knew that person...).

I'm sure you are against violence against children. If you look after someone's kids - someone who they insist that your shall beat them if they are disobedient -would you wonder if it would be disrespectful not to follow these parents instructions? Probably not. Humans are in many ways different from most other animals, but neither of us like to suffer. So the question ,IMHIm is alot about *who* you want to respect. The abused or the abusers?

It's also about how important an action is. How important is it to be kind with someone who eats meat vs. avoiding to contributing to killing and harming other living beings? And I'm not only talking about how important such actions may be for eg. you, but how important they would be for eg. the animals (or children etc) which are suffering.

[harpy]

Hi, if you're not going until next summer I think you've got plenty of time to arrange things with them so it shouldn't inconvenience them.

For example, you could offer to buy and prepare your own meals if necessary (if you don't know how you've got time to learn ). Toiletries and stuff you can probably take with you.

Yes you may end up compromising a bit (e.g. it's difficult to insist someone else buys vegan washing up liquid etc) but I think if you explain that you are a vegan for ethical reasons the family ought to do their best to ensure that you don't have to go against your beliefs.

I wouldn't think in terms of "demanding" and "refusing" but in terms of "negotiating" and "offering", i.e. make it easy for them to help you to be vegan. Good luck.

[leedsveg]

Hi TCV

I think there's a lot of cruelty in both America and Europe.

Harpy's posting more or less says what I would say. The main thing is that you contact the family well in advance, so that your concerns about food, can (hopefully) be sorted out. Your normal toiletries, you can of course take with you.

Leedsveg

[Andy_T]

Hello CV, first of all welcome to the forum!

I think you should stand up for your beliefs without being a jerk about it!

Did you already tell your hosts that you are vegan? If not, you might take the time to tell them and ask them whether this will be a problem (along the lines already suggested that you can/will cook for yourself - or simply eat the side orders only - and get your own toiletries). If they are die-hard omnis who can't accept that, then it might be an idea to review the idea of going to Europe / of going to that particular family.

Which country are you going to? There are some where it is easier to be vegan than others, if you let us know where you're going and what you plan to do, we might be able to help you there (there are lots of Europeans from all walks of life on the forum).

And yes - animal industry in Europe is as bad as in the US. OK, you could say that if the US scores 100% on an animal cruelty scale, Europe might possibly be between 85% and 100 % of that scale, depending on where you go, but that is not a value to aim for. You should go for 0 % animal cruelty.

Best regards,
Andy

[TheClassyVegan]

Thank all of you! You guys give great advice! I like this forum a lot since where I live "Vegetarian" is not even HEARD of!... Yes, I think I will contact them. I will probably be staying in either Scottland, Ireland, or Germany. We still have not decided yet...

I asked this question because my family and I go on road trips a lot and the rest of my family is EXTREMELY unsupportive of my decision to be a Vegan. In fact, they try very hard to trip me up and make me change. I want to know, what should I do if I go somewhere out of the country (or even just away from home) on short notice with people who dispprove of my decision? Or if they just do't have anything Vegan for me. Like, last summer my family took a roadtrip to California. When we got there the people we were staying with were surprised with the fact that I was a Vegan (I did not have time to tell them before we left) and so they went out of their way to go grocery shopping for me in the middle of the night and the meal they had already prepared for me went to waste. I felt SO guilty. I don't want anything like that to happen again.

By the way Andy, "

but that is not a value to aim for. You should go for 0 % animal cruelty

" I agree completely! I was just curious if it was just us, or if we were worse. Since, Europeans seem so much healthier, but maybe that is just a stereo-type.

[Blueberries]

I will probably be staying in either Scotland, Ireland, or Germany. We still have not decided yet....

Firstly, Europe is a huge continent with many different nationalities, cultures and languages, so please don't lump it all together, it's kind of offensive

Europeans seem so much healthier, but maybe that is just a stereo-type.

I understand that you're concerned simply because you'll be going to somewhere you don't know but Scotland, Ireland (where I'm from) and Germany are all pretty progressive, developed countries with vegan communities. You'll be able to get vegan toiletries for yourself no problem. If you explain to your host family that you're a vegan I'm sure they'll understand, send them information and simple recipe ideas. Once you've decided where you're going check online for local vegan societies and meet-up groups. Good luck, and I hope you enjoy your travels

[TheClassyVegan]

I am truly very sorry if I offended you or anyone else. I did not mean to "lump" anyone together. I appologize for my ignorant speech. In America our teachers are always comparing us to Europe and Asia, saying we are failures and need to catch up. They never say which countries in Europe though.
And great, I am glad! It is practically impossible to get Vegan toilettries here unless you order them on the internet and they are very expensive. Also where I live, in Kentucky, Veganism is not only unacceptable, but down-right offensive and basically a "sin against nature". I was just afraid that in a whole other country it might be worse.

[leedsveg]

Firstly, Europe is a huge continent with many different nationalities, cultures and languages, so please don't lump it all together, it's kind of offensive

Offensive? Seriously?

Leedsveg

[Andy_T]

I asked this question because my family and I go on road trips a lot and the rest of my family is EXTREMELY unsupportive of my decision to be a Vegan. In fact, they try very hard to trip me up and make me change. I want to know, what should I do if I go somewhere out of the country (or even just away from home) on short notice with people who dispprove of my decision? Or if they just do't have anything Vegan for me. Like, last summer my family took a roadtrip to California. When we got there the people we were staying with were surprised with the fact that I was a Vegan (I did not have time to tell them before we left) and so they went out of their way to go grocery shopping for me in the middle of the night and the meal they had already prepared for me went to waste. I felt SO guilty. I don't want anything like that to happen again.

Hi CV, well, it seems you learned a lesson from that - and that should be tell them in advance.

The other lesson, of course, is that total strangers might go out of their way to help you, while your own family tries what they can to sabotage you. In that respect, I hope that your trip to Europe turns out better than living with your family...

Best regards,
Andy

[Andy_T]

Offensive? Seriously?

Leedsveg

My guess is that Blueberry was referring to being lumped together with the Brits.
Who wouldn't be offended

(Ducks and runs)

Best regards,
Andy

[harpy]

*blows raspberry at Andy to promote European unity*

[leedsveg]

*blows raspberry at Andy to promote European unity*

He's never forgiven the Euopean Union for joining the United Kingdom in 1973.

Lv

[Blueberries]

I am truly very sorry if I offended you or anyone else. I did not mean to "lump" anyone together. I appologize for my ignorant speech.

No worries TCV, apology accepted

My guess is that Blueberry was referring to being lumped together with the Brits.
Who wouldn't be offended (Ducks and runs)

Haha, I've nothing against Brits, I just don't like it when Europe is lumped together as one cultural entity. I study languages and cultural studies at university, so cultural stereotyping is a pet peeve of mine.

[leedsveg]

No criticism of anybody intended but can I respectfully suggest that we try to "cut a little bit of slack" for younger forum members when they post? Looking back to when I was 15 (50 years ago -gulp-) and more sensitive to criticism, I would have wanted people to have done the same for me.

Leedsveg

[Blueberries]

I am one of the younger forum members! Anyway, I like to think that I respect the forum members and feel comfortable enough in your collective company to respectfully share my views. I respect TCV enough to treat him/her as an equal despite his/her age. Sorry if I caused any dispute, my apologies to anyone I offended by taking offence!

[leedsveg]

I am one of the younger forum members! Anyway, I like to think that I respect the forum members and feel comfortable enough in your collective company to respectfully share my views. I respect TCV enough to treat him/her as an equal despite his/her age. Sorry if I caused any dispute, my apologies to anyone I offended by taking offence!

Thanks and well said Bluberries.

Now my turn to apologise to you if my previous post came across as slightly censorius. I was just a bit anxious that TCV may have become upset, having made a comment in all innocence. I'm sure that when the holiday comes to pass, TCV will find us all as warm and as friendly as could be wished for, whether the journey passes through Ireland, the UK, or any other part of Europe.

Good wishes

Leedsveg

[TheClassyVegan]

I'm fine. I appreciate constructive critisism. I actually hate labeling and stereotyping too. I really did not mean to. Reading and writing in these forums has really opened my eyes to how similar all of us really are.

[leedsveg]

Hi TCV

I'm glad you're fine and I'm sure that anybody on the forum who has read all your postings can only think good of you.

It's great to travel, to meet other people and to see how they live. I really wish I'd travelled a bit lot further when I was young. But I can now see more of Leeds with my free "pensioner bus-pass" so it's not over yet!

Leedsveg

[harpy]

Bit of a digression, but I thought you could use those free bus passes to travel all over the country (as long as you're not in a hurry)?

[leedsveg]

You're right harpy. The nationwide (slow) travel is free with the bus pass, but not alas the accomodation en route. Mrs Leedsveg and I could get to the Yorkshire coast from Leeds (80 miles in about 3 hours) for free using our bus passes but we choose not to. The buses often set off full of free-loading pensioners, meaning that villagers along the way, perhaps only intending to go to the next village, can't get on. That can't be fair.

My 69 year old sister has just had a week's holiday in Weymouth travelling using National Express coaches and the return journey from Glasgow ie there and back, with pensioner discount, cost her a total of £8! Unfortunately the travel time each direction was 22 hours and involved 3 (or was it 4?) connections. She loves that kind of thing but I have a posterior that doesn't take kindly to (long) coach travel.


Leedsveg

[TheClassyVegan]

Hey, (This is off topic) I tried to post a new thread but it won't let me! It keeps saying my account has not been validated. Which obviously it has.
I sent an email to the address it gave me and haven't recieved a reply yet... What is going on?

[Korn]

Hi,
I'll look into this and respond as soon as I have time.
can you please paste a copy of the (whole) message saying that your account hasn't been validated? This helps me find out why you can't post new threads.
Exactly when did you send the message that hasn't been responded to? I received a message which was sent some minutes before the post above, but have you sent other messages?
As your user title suggests, you still have the kind of account which really new vegans or people who aren't vegans yet have, but there shouldn't be a problem with posting new threads in this area. But you seem to have a problem with your account, because it is validated, so let's sort out that ASAP.

[TheClassyVegan]

This is what the message says:

Dear TheClassyVegan, for some reason, you don't have permission to access this page (yet). But don't worry! This could be due to one of several reasons:

1. Your account may be awaiting activation.
2. Some info is only available for moderators .
3. In short periods, some sections are only fully available for paying subscribers.
4. Maybe you have not joined the so called 'Permission Group' that the subforum you tried to access belongs to? In order to join our User Groups, go to Settings, and look for Permission Groups. It's here: http://www.veganforum.com/forums/pro...editusergroups
5. If you told us in the registration process that you are not a vegan currently, you basically have read access to the forum. Please use the Contact Us link at the bottom of the main page if you have become a vegan since you registered, and we'll update your account for you.
6. If you are not a member, you may have tried to read a thread that has been moved to the part of this forum that's only available to registered users.
7. Your account type may for some other reason not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Please contacts us if you have any questions!
8. Still confused? If you think we can improve the content of this message, please send an email to webmaster (at) veganforum (dot) com. Thanks in advance!

And I asssure you, I AM a Vegan. Maybe it says I am not because I am new to this site. I cannot figure out how to change it. It won't let me edit my info or anything.