Drinking milk from free-range goats etc?

[adam.rurka]

As a vegan, do you care if someone drinks milk from free-range goats, eats free range eggs, etc? Like how someone may live in rural Italy or Greece?

EDIT: I should probably make clear that I'm not talking about so called free range eggs from the grocery store, but legit eggs that a chicken you have grazing your farm lays, or milk that your single goat that grazes your farm produces.

[CoolCat]

Yes.

That one line scenario already raises so many questions. Like where are the offspring of those goats? And why aren't they getting the milk? Mamals don't give milk for the hell of it, they lactate when they need to feed their offspring. And what about the roosters in this story. Half of the eggs that hatch are males, are they all allowed to roam the fields? Or where are they? Assuming all the chickens hatched on site since the dawn of men that is. If they were just bought all the shit that are breeders comes in to the picture as well. And that brings us to the property status of animals. And what happens to chickens when they no longer lay eggs? And why can't they just have their eggs? Even in rural Italy or Greece people can easily survive without the need for them. And what is free range in rural Italy and Greece anyway? How free are they? ...

Now I feel like a sandwich, too bad there isn't a monkey arround to make me one...

[Blueberries]

Yes.

That one line scenario already raises so many questions. Like where are the offspring of those goats? And why aren't they getting the milk? Mamals don't give milk for the hell of it, they lactate when they need to feed their offspring. And what about the roosters in this story. Half of the eggs that hatch are males, are they all allowed to roam the fields? Or where are they? Assuming all the chickens hatched on site since the dawn of men that is. If they were just bought all the shit that are breeders comes in to the picture as well. And that brings us to the property status of animals. And what happens to chickens when they no longer lay eggs? And why can't they just have their eggs? Even in rural Italy or Greece people can easily survive without the need for them. And what is free range in rural Italy and Greece anyway? How free are they? ...

Now I feel like a sandwich, too bad there isn't a monkey arround to make me one...

*presses the 'like' button*

[adam.rurka]

Hmm. This is all very interesting to me. Since I'm only at the stage of food vegan.

[Mary]

I too have debated this around in my head! My dream (as in daydream) has always been to have a farm out in the country, producing food only for my family and friends. Would I have a cow? Would I have chickens?

Here are some points that I consider:

-I don't feel the need to EAT any animal products. I feel like I'd be healthier without.
- If I did have animals on the farm, I would think of them as companion animals. IE they live out their life, I take care of them
- so no milk! I don't think I'd want to be breeding cows that will need pasture.
- no eggs! Again with the feeling healthier without.
- BUT animals help with fertilizing
- also love having animals around.

What do you guys think?

[CoolCat]

Hmm. This is all very interesting to me. Since I'm only at the stage of food vegan.

There's no nice way to say this, and I'm saying it with the best intentions... but there is no such thing as a "food vegan" or a "dietary vegan". You are following a vegan diet but being vegan is so much broader than just diet or food. Vegans don't use or consume non-human animals or their secretions. That includes diet, clothing, pets, entertainment, zoo's, ...

Read about ethical veganism and abolition vs. welfare and make the switch to ethical veganism today !

[CoolCat]

(original post truncated to keep only the points)

-I don't feel the need to EAT any animal products. I feel like I'd be healthier without.
- If I did have animals on the farm, I would think of them as companion animals. IE they live out their life, I take care of them
- so no milk! I don't think I'd want to be breeding cows that will need pasture.
- no eggs! Again with the feeling healthier without.
- also love having animals around.

There are plenty of animals in need of a home in our society. Sounds like you want to run an animal sanctuary where animals in need find a home without there is anything expected from them. There is nothing wrong with caring for animals like this. As long as you don't buy them. You can't rescue animals by creating demand.

- BUT animals help with fertilizing

There is too much animal shit! And you don't need animal shit to grown crops. The problem is that we take every single bit of a plant and deplete the soil. For example we eat the grains, and the animals eat the hay. So there isn't plant matter left to compost on the field. Another problem is that we keep using the same land, and keep growing the same crops. If you would leave a plot of land for a few years and let grasses grow. You could then plow it and those grasses would release their nutrients back in to the ground. I'm no expert at any of this, google for "vegan gardening" to find people that know much more about this than me.

[Mary]

There is too much animal shit! And you don't need animal shit to grown crops.

Lol I know. Just one of my half-made up excuses to have animals around in my daydreams
;-)

Also

The problem is that we take every single bit of a plant and deplete the soil

Uh..my daydream also includes the composting toilet...so...yea...what goes out of the soil goes back in. hehehe

[CoolCat]

...
Uh..my daydream also includes the composting toilet...so...yea...what goes out of the soil goes back in. hehehe

You should be careful with using human compost. It can have traces of meds and all sorts of stuff. Personally I wouldn't grow crops with it. You could grow flowers or something and use those as air freshener in the house or something. (yes your shit smells of flowers then ) Personally I think I would have one of them constructed wetlands for sewage treatment. Yes in my daydream I live on a farm too, but I don't really have to work in it. Things seem to magically grow itself and I only need to harvest when I really feel like it, the other times it's magic again. I guess I won the lottery and have staff or something

[MomOf2Gremlins]

Yes.

That one line scenario already raises so many questions. Like where are the offspring of those goats? And why aren't they getting the milk? Mamals don't give milk for the hell of it, they lactate when they need to feed their offspring. And what about the roosters in this story. Half of the eggs that hatch are males, are they all allowed to roam the fields? Or where are they? Assuming all the chickens hatched on site since the dawn of men that is. If they were just bought all the shit that are breeders comes in to the picture as well. And that brings us to the property status of animals. And what happens to chickens when they no longer lay eggs? And why can't they just have their eggs? Even in rural Italy or Greece people can easily survive without the need for them. And what is free range in rural Italy and Greece anyway? How free are they? ...

Now I feel like a sandwich, too bad there isn't a monkey arround to make me one...

ITA!!!
And currently living in Sicily, Italy (which pretty much 3rd world country where we are located) I can tell you they do *not* care much for animals here, let alone take proper care of them!
We have a sheep farm really close by and the shepherds are daily walking their sheep from one point the another.. It pains me seeing them as many limp or have some other injuries it seems and the guy just shoo's them on!.. Once a female sheep was giving birth while walking and just shoo'ed by the man again..
Or they carry dead lambs still bloody in their hands..
Obviously, the sheep are their livelihood.. but honestly, I doubt there's much caring involved!.. (Don't even get me started on the many stray animals and no shelters or if there are shelters, in horrible conditions!..)

[TheHRchannel]

I don't see how milk is any good because it's freaking nasty!

[amethyst]

My daydream includes a lot of land, wildflowers and herbs growing all around, and a big garden to live off of. What my southern grandmother calls her winter garden. She grows enough food to live off of all winter long, by preserving and freezing everything as it comes in. Living in the midwest, that is necessary, since we cannot enjoy a garden all year long. No animals required or needed. Just my own personal little daydream.