Vegans and carbs

[forester]

Howdy. I'm a new vegan as of 3 weeks ago and things have been okay so far, but I've noticed a lot of the cheap things I'm finding to add into my diet like: Noodles, rice, some whole wheat bread products, and even some low fat snacks. They all have an abundance of carbohydrates. How many carbs are really okay to eat being vegan. I know the difference between good and bad carbs. Complex carbs and the like. Be in mind though I am still very new to the vegan diet so I'm still doing a lot of research on things to eat and recipes to try out.

Oh and some background info might help. I am a 23 year old dude who is in athletic shape and I live with my folks who are slowly adjusting their diet to be a little more vegan, but not as much as myself.

I know since I'm still a pretty young guy my health isn't in question, but I turned to being vegan after watching a movie called, Forks over Knives, and also after doing a lot of research online. I know I could eat more fat and carbohydrates because I'm young and active, but I'd still like some guidelines from some experienced vegans like you fine folks


To state my question again, how much is too much carbohydrates. A lot of the cheaper vegan food I'm finding is just loaded with carbs so I'm kinda stressing on finding adequate foods to eat on a daily basis. (other than the usual raw foods like fruits, vegetables, and nuts)


I am still constantly doing research and looking through threads and other forums for information, but I would appreciate some advice if you feel so inclined. Thank you

[CoolCat]

I don't think there is such a thing as too much carbs
I love a big pile of potato mash, or a nice lasagne or other pasta dish. Noodles and rice are less my thing but bread is to die for.

[FaerieSuzy]

It shouldn't be something to worry about, as long as you're also eating enough fruit, veg, legumes etc! Nothing wrong with pasta or rice if it's loaded with nice fresh veggies delish!
If you're concerned about the nutritional value of carb foods, make sure you get as much of it wholemeal as poss (whole meal bread, pasta & brown rice) as it's better for you!

[Andy_T]

Depends on what you eat.

I agree that there are "good carbs" (those in whole, ripe, fresh fruit and vegetables) and "bad carbs" (processed, e.g. flour, sugar etc.). IMO, you should try to eat as many "good carbs" as possible, and in the form of unprocessed vegetables and fruits - then there's no "too much".

What I found a very helpful approach was Joel Fuhrmans "Nutrient density" concept - very simple actually. Divide the number of micronutrients (vitamines, enzymes, minerals etc. - remember that there are those nutrients that we know and those that we most probably do not know yet) of a certain food by the number of calories it has. He makes a scale starting with a score of 100 (very good) for raw leafy green vegetables going down to 0 (processes oils and fats, refined sugar). Look here: http://www.drfuhrman.com/library/article17.aspx

As long as you eat lots of foods that have a high nutrient density score (in short: whole vegetables and fruits, preferrably raw), you're on the right track.

Best regards,
Andy

[Glory]

I agree with Andy. I think that as long as you're eating lots of veg and fruit, the carbs matter much less. BUT, if you do choose carbs, try your best to choose good whole foods carbs. Consider making your own (preservative free) bread and rolls. It's not difficult at all and they are always available to you.

It's funny because I spend much less time worrying about what I'm going to eat now that I'm vegan. I very rarely choose anything that's processed or not a whole food. It's actually quite liberating!

[Andy_T]

To make one thing clear - carbs are good for you (if they are the right ones).

The results of the "China study" showed those to be the healthiest who got 80% of their energy from carbs, and a maximum of 10 % from protein and fat. That basically means eating lots of vegetables and fruits (which have about that ratio) and not adding any fat (e.g. oils) to your food.

Also check out Douglas Graham's great book "the 80/10/10 diet".
He also points out that sugar is not bad for you - unless it is not refined sugar, but the natural sugar from whole, fresh fruit. It's actually the fuel man is supposed to live on.

Best regards,
Andy

[forester]

Thanks everyone, I'm not stressing so much about the foods I'm finding now. I'm still new to this way of living and it takes a lot of planning, but every time I learn something more it gets a little easier and little less stressful. Thank you guys.

One more quick question if y'all can answer it. I was always told over the years that too much carbs (even good carbs) will eventually be stored as fat is not used. I'm not sure how much carbs I burn when I do my usual activities, but when I go to a wholesale store and find very cheap chinese noodles that have 84grams! of carbs in them... I definitely hesitate to jump on that cheap buy.

And I know the good carbs, the complex carbs, fill you up more and keep you full longer but that is a lot of dang carbs for one meal, phew.

[FaerieSuzy]

Maybe try reading 'The China Study', which Andy mentioned. It explains how the Chinese they studied ate more calories (mainly in carbs) than the average American (who ate a higher ratio of protein, mostly animal derived) in their diet. The Chinese maintained a healthy body weight, while those on a Western diet struggled to, and many were overweight. The book explains how eating more carbs from the right sources (eg: not white bread, white pasta etc) but more from fresh fruit, veg and fibrous sources is used more effectively in the body, to heat the body, supporting physical activity etc, thus meaning it won't be stored as fat in the same way processed and fatty foods will!

An average Chinese person, living on a largely plant based diet, was eating around 2,500 calories a day, mainly from fruit, veg and carbs, carbs, carbs, yet the average Chinese person on the study was also not overweight.

Hope that settles your mind a wee bit?

[forester]

Thanks Suzy, it does settle my mind a bit. Although I forget what was in the ingredients of those really cheap Chinese noodles with all those carbs. I doubt they were made from any kind of whole grain though

Oh well. This is all good to know though.

[amethyst]

forester, I try to eat mostly whole grains, but I do luv, luv, luv me some Asian noodles. On the days when I eat them, I try to also eat a very large salad or some steamed veggies alongside them. It makes me feel better about getting some nutrition in while eating some of my favorite comfort food.

I have Cambodian friends, practically family, and they eat a lot of these noodles. I have been introduced to so many yummy ones at their fave Asian store, and now I still eat them. Just not everyday.

I hang out in the thread called "Poor vegan, cheap living". If cost is the main reason you are choosing these (your quote: "really cheap Chinese noodles" ), you might get some good alternative choices in that thread.

[forester]

Thanks Amethyst. I do peruse around in that particular thread a bunch .

I do kinda doubt I'll find a cheap alternative to the cheap noodles I was talking about. If I recall it was like five packages of these noodles went for like $7. And each package was 16oz I believe. Really awesome deal but like I said I really doubt they are whole grain lol.

So, off to more research and looking around.

[Andy_T]

Forester, just to be sure, most Chinese that I know (my wife is from Taiwan, so I do know quite a few) do NOT eat whole-grain noodles or rice. However, they do eat lots of vegetables with their noodles and rice, which might make all the difference.

Try to eat fresh, whole fruits and vegetables and not too much of the processed stuff.

Best regards,
Andy

[forester]

I understand Andy and I appreciate the info.

I am still learning, but for now I'm just trying to avoid most processed things, bad carbs, etc and focus on the things I know are good for me. Basically at the moment I'm mostly eating raw fruits and vegetables. I do have a bunch of recipe books coming in a week or so though that I bought from amazon, which should be awesome

[amethyst]

Andy, my Cambodian friends eat mostly white rice (jasmine) and packaged ramen, udon, and soba noodles with lots of veggies. They walk everywhere they can. They are very healthy. I think it's the total package of eating lots of produce and exercising.

I tend to stick to whole grains most of the time, but do enjoy those noodles with the packaged seasoning as an occasional treat. Yum! lol

[Maître]

Sorry to go slightly off topic, but what really constitudes a 'bad carb' and are they really bad? I was always under the impression that 'bad' or 'unhealthy' currently actually refers to 'bad for weight management' since meat/dairy eaters are so prone to weight problems already so it's the biggest concern they have regarding food.

I know there's difference in nutrient density, but assuming you're getting everything you need from nutrient rich sources such as legumes, is topping off your daily energy requirements with 'bad carbs' really that bad? I understand the whole digestion time difference and glycemic index, but again that seems mostly linked to weight management - or is there some other benefit to low glycemic index foods other than feeling 'full' longer?

Again, I apologise for slightly derailing from the main topic, but if someone has more information regarding this it could be useful for the OP also since young athletic vegan males often have trouble 'eating enough calories' without resorting to such 'bad' carbs or excess fat.

[masurabi]

Our bodies run off carbs, so eat all you want!! The only time our bodies run of protein and fat is when our body in ketosis(which you do not want), and you aren't eating any carbohydrates, our bodies can't run on 50% protein and 50% carbs, it's either burning carbs or burning fat/protein. Protein and fat are used to form the body not to fuel the body. If you eat to much carbs your body will store them as fat, but unless you are eating more calories than your body is burning, this doesn't happen. Try to get most of your carbs from fruit though, not grains, fruits are easier to digest and there for give you more energy and humans are definitely more evolved to eat fruit over processed grains, think about how we give livestock grains to fatten them up because grains are so calorically dense... But when you do eat grains try to always have them be whole. Hope this helps!!!