Eating outside of the home

[nycveg]

Hi all! New to the forum. Vegetarian for many years, recently my husband and I decided to become vegan after a trip to Woodstock Farm Animal Sanctuary! We're working on the transition now.

I thought for a lot of years I wouldn't be able to give up eating dairy and cheese, but so far I'm totally happy with the alternatives. I love my Daiya and Parmazano! I'm slowly learning vegan baking without eggs. Our home is now totally vegan and we're fine with it.

Our problem so far has been when we go out to eat with friends. When it's just the two of us, we head to a vegan restaurant-- no problem where we live in NYC! However, when we go out to eat with non-veg pals, we're having a tough time finding menu items and usually end up eating some dairy in the recipe. I feel like the answer would be to "eat a salad", however, I have Crohn's disease, which prevents me from eating uncooked vegetables, I just can't digest them and they make me sick. Kinda leaves me stuck on what to eat.

So, really looking for suggestions on where and what to eat with non-veg friends when we go out. I really appreciate the social gathering, and we don't want to be the weirdoes who only eat the side order of french fries.

Thanks so much for the advice!

[harpy]

Hello - welcome. Wouldn't your friends be interested to try the vegan restaurants with you? It's no hardship given the choice you have there!

If they wouldn't, then "ethnic" restaurants (Indian, Chinese, Lebanese...) often seem to offer a better choice for vegans than typical western restaurants do. Maybe you could do some research and see which ones in your locality have the best vegan options?

Other restaurants can sometimes produce something vegan with a bit of notice so you could try phoning ahead if you know where you're going, and explaining what you'd like. If you let them understand that you are coming with a group and can influence the whole group's choice of restaurant they can be quite accommodating

[nycveg]

I definitely have friends who would shun a vegan restaurant, and I don't want to eliminate spending time with them. And while I know how important veganism is, I don't want to be that person seen as a picky eater no one wants to go out to eat with!

So far thai, Japanese and Indian restaurants have had some good choices, although I went to a south indian place recently and things were cooked in a lot of butter. I tried asking the waiter and he was confused so I just kind of gave up and gambled on the chickpeas.

[Korn]

Hi nycvegan, and welcome!

I've been asking for vegan food in non-vegan cafes and restaurants for years, both in US, UK, continental Europe and Asia. It has become much easier the last few years, to the degree that's it's not really a problem at all on 99% of the places I visit. One reason for this is probably that vegetarianism and veganism is a lot more common than it used to be - but also widespread knowledge about allergies; waiters are used to, nowadays, to get requests from people who avoid all kinds of stuff (gluten, nuts, dairy etc).

The best places to get vegan food is IMHO places which serve Thai, Indian, Mexican or Lebanese food, but in you can actually go to pretty much any Italian or other restaurant and ask for a variation of one of their meals. I spoke to a chef about this once - he said that the most interesting part of his work was when someone requested a meal which wasn't on the menu, because then he could improvise a little and break his daily routines.

Just before I saw your question, I came across this litte video clip - a small excerpt of an interview woth the planet's probably most famous ex-vegan - Steve Jobs. I apologize if the 'feel' of the interview is a bit overkill, given the simplicty of your question (he talks about changing the world), but IMHO those 2 minutes have some important relevance to the qustion about getting vegan food in non-vegan places - because the only way to make it even easier to get vegan food everywhere, is to keep asking for it. If most vegans would only eat at home or settle with a salad in non-vegan restaurants, nothing will change - the waiters and cafe owners may just ignore the fact that there are literally millions of vegans (and hundreds of millions of people who avoid meat) on this planet.

Cafe and restaurant owners want to serve food and survive. AFAIK, none of them have a philosophy about avoding veggie meals, so if there are no vegan or vegetarian options on the menu, it's only because not enough people have been asking for such food.... so such a little thing as asking for something without animal ingredients in actually will have impact if enough people just keep doing it!

Trust me - with only one exception (in many years), I've never had to eat 'side orders', anywhere. All good places take pride in deliviering something for their customers - if it's not too much work, and making a vegan meal isn't a lot of work for a chef - especially if you suggest something simple they can make in a few minutes.

[nycveg]

That video was really helpful. To be honest, I've kind of been struggling with being "that person", the weird picky eater, when we go out. My husband and I were just discussing how we feel like vegetarianism is pretty widely accepted and all of our friends can accomodate that, but that veganism is kind of the next step up that no one knows what to do with. One example is this catered dinner I recently went to. The options were chicken, beef or fish (ew), but they had a number of side items I would have previously (as a non-vegan vegetarian) been able to combine into something decent, along with some dessert. None of those options were vegan though, so I was the weird one who didn't eat anything, and people asked me about it all night. I just replied "I ate already" to everyone, even though I hadn't and I was starving! It's these kinds of situations I feel like I'm bumping up against. I don't want to be the weird non-eater!

[Ladygold]

I use times like this as a form of activism. I don't like having a conversation with the wait staff about what is vegan or not when I am going to a place that is 90% for meat eaters because having the conversation at the table annoys me and is not always reliable. I email or call the restaurant ahead of time and ask them. Then its up to them to go through the menu to find vegan friendly items for me (since they have the chefs help) then they get back to me with options and sometimes a whole new meal that the chef will make for me. Many chefs have been excited to try something vegan and have said thanks for the opportunity.

So I am able to eat AND make it known that vegan options are wanted.

I do think being vegan is much different then being a picky eater though…we are making a choice to live in a way that is not widely accepted and I do use humor and compassion when I can but in the end I am deciding to eat this way.

U have gone to a half dozen catered events since becoming vegan and only had one time so far the food was not great. Do you tell them ahead of time you are vegan?

LG

[harpy]

I agree with LG that being vegan is nothing like being a picky eater and you're not asking for anything unreasonable.

I have to say though that wait staff can sometimes be unhelpful even when you've phoned ahead and arranged it with the management, so you have to be assertive.

I was in a local omnivorous restaurant at lunch time (one run by a well-known TV chef here, incidentally). I'd been before and had something vegan, had phoned ahead this time and been told it was fine, and even so the wait person made me explain what "vegan" meant, and then rolled her eyes and said "I'll see what I can do" which made me get v assertive (though I managed to stay polite, I think). Even the omnivorous friend I was with thought it was pathetic. It was fine after that though.


Having said all that, keeping an emergency snack in your handbag may help you keep your cool if a place is unhelpful and you don't want to make a scene

[nycveg]

This calling ahead thing seems like a really good idea. I admit I have anxiety around everyone staring at me while I'm like, "Yes, but is there egg in the batter?" and the waitress staring at me blankly.

[Ladygold]

This calling ahead thing seems like a really good idea. I admit I have anxiety around everyone staring at me while I'm like, "Yes, but is there egg in the batter?" and the waitress staring at me blankly.

I also really like emailing because I keep a file on my computer with all the replies because it gives me something to refer to when the restaurant is brought up again. I would caution that like looking at labels you should double check every once in a while because things change.

@harpy: I have had the eye roll myself and enjoy saying "I have emailed so and so and was told it was not a issue can you check with them please" I smile as much as possible and try to seem happy to wait.

I used to work in retaurants and have strict rules on being nice to anyone that handles my food

LG

[harpy]

Yes, definitely a good idea to be nice to anyone that's going to come into contact with your food before it reaches you I left a fairly large Christmas tip so perhaps she will remember what a vegan is for next time...

[Korn]

This calling ahead thing seems like a really good idea. I admit I have anxiety around everyone staring at me while I'm like, "Yes, but is there egg in the batter?" and the waitress staring at me blankly.

Waiters are very used to questions about all kinds of ingredients these days. Don't worry! I agree that it's not at all weird to ask about ingredients. With more than 50% of the world population having either milk allergy or lactose intolerance, I guess New York waiters are used to a lot of questions!

On another note, it's kind of strange/weird that not all restaurants already have such options on the menu yet – (lacto-)vegetarian restaurants in particular, because they would get more customers if they wouldn't put eggs, honey, cheese, cream etc. in all their dishes. I have yet to hear a lacto-vegetarian claim that we actually need eggs or dairy products, so the lack of vegan options in veggie restaurants, which was quite common around 15-20 years ago, always was a mystery to me.

[Blueberries]

I was in a pizza restaurant over the weekend with my friends, I did the usual thing of asking if the pizza dough had milk in it and the waitress told me that they get the dough in from a factory and that it doesn't have ingredients on the packaging so they couldn't tell me what it contained (!?). Asking waiters about ingredients is a bit of a mixed bag, sometimes they know, sometimes they don't know or care.

[leedsveg]

I was in a pizza restaurant over the weekend with my friends, I did the usual thing of asking if the pizza dough had milk in it and the waitress told me that they get the dough in from a factory and that it doesn't have ingredients on the packaging so they couldn't tell me what it contained (!?). Asking waiters about ingredients is a bit of a mixed bag, sometimes they know, sometimes they don't know or care.

Not very good for anybody who is lactose intolerant is it?

Leedsveg

[Ladygold]

Not very good for anybody who is lactose intolerant is it?

Leedsveg

Good point, Since I am vegan and also loactose intolerant I have had the most annoying ass conversations with people. I get the whole...well its a choice la la la so I fight that then at the end I add I am also lactose intolerant so If I eat that I have a tendency to get very ill like 75% percent of the population.

Grrrr Hearing i'm vegan should be enough

LG

[Blueberries]

Not very good for anybody who is lactose intolerant is it?

Exactly, its just really bad form for a restaurant. It won't be getting my support until it cops on a bit...

[leedsveg]

I was in a pizza restaurant over the weekend with my friends, I did the usual thing of asking if the pizza dough had milk in it and the waitress told me that they get the dough in from a factory and that it doesn't have ingredients on the packaging so they couldn't tell me what it contained (!?).

I could imagine somebody asking the waitress if the pizza base had milk in it because they (the customer) was lactose intolerant and the waitress saying "Do you mind trying it and if and when you fall ill, we'll know the answer to your question!"

Truly, what a rubbish system where they only know the ingredients they are using when people with allergies have a (possibly severe) reaction after eating the food. I think they should have an ambulence ouside on permanent standby, just in case somebody with a nut allergy comes in.

[Mymblesdaughter]

I went to a Zizzi restaurant a couple of years ago with a group of meat eaters veggies and vegans that I worked with. When we asked what the vegans could eat the waitress went and asked the chef. There were a few things on the menu that looked vegan, like some pasta dishes. When the waitress came back she said the salad and chips are the only thing that are vegan. She was obviously pretty annoyed as she said she was pretty sure some of the other things were ok but it sounded like the chef was just being awkward. Well there was a group of about twenty or thirty of us and that meant we just went to pizza express the next time we went out, so their loss.

[Blueberries]

I went to a Zizzi restaurant a couple of years ago... When we asked what the vegans could eat the waitress went and asked the chef. There were a few things on the menu that looked vegan, like some pasta dishes. When the waitress came back she said the salad and chips are the only thing that are vegan...

I was in London recently and went to Zizzi, I asked the waiter if there was milk in the pizza bases and after going off to ask he said no, so I got a pretty good mushroom cheese-less pizza. Maybe the chef didn't realise what 'vegan' was, and thought we couldn't eat bread/pasta.