Joints: any way through diet and supplements to improve?

[Bjorn]

Hi,
Not long I'm vegan and I was wondering if some food or supplements would help to improve the joints (and back) pain, -or on the contrary the avoidance of some foods

I'm 27 and this has been an increasing issue for the last two years...

Doctors prescribe me Diclofenac and Paracetamol, which prove not very effective
I used to take supplements but didn't see any real change, the matter just steadily slowly worsen...+ those are not vegan so I've stopped taken them when I switched...

A friend of mine told me diairy avoidance and poss. gluten avoidance might help (but then i'm already "free from" diairy and didn't notice a change so far...)

Anyone can help?

Many thanks and sorry if this duplicates with other threads...

[Argonaut]

• Glucosamine Hydrochloride (Holland & Barrett own brand or Higher Nature should be easy enough to find).
• Omega Oils 3.6.9 (Vertese brand, again easy to find).

[Bjorn]

Thanks very much Argonaut, I will look into those vegan versions,
That's the kind of supplements I used to take as non vegan (in non vegan versions) and I didn't notice much difference unfortunately... Do they really work?
Should may be start a pain/food intake/med intake notebook to spot any correlation as nothing jumped really to my attention as now...

[Robinwomb]

Have you ever tried an elimination diet? The food/pain diary sounds like a good plan. Be sure to also include other chemicals you use in your environment (dishwashing liquid, soaps, shampoo etc). You never know. I had to do this when I had hives for a month many years ago. My body went crazy with hives, shingles, acute bouts of gastroenteritis, and eventually horrid abdominal pain that turned out to be endometriosis. I also have hypothyroidism. All are autoimmune types of disorders and all involve hormones and joint pains. My situation is a bit different in that I had a total hysterectomy and loss of both ovaries at 33 years of age in 2005 for the endometriosis. After that, with surgical menopause, I felt like I aged ninety years and I had horrid joint and muscle pain (but even before then I had some joint pains due to wildly fluctuating hormones from the active endometriosis). I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia in 2006. But I didnt feel this fit, even though upon examination I had all the tender points. I was put on an anti candida diet and was down to eating fresh vegetables only but obviously it didnt help much and I became severely underweight (and it triggered anorexia to control my body when I lost my sense of self but that's another story). For me, getting my thyroid hormones regulated and the proper hormone replacement back in me so I could function helped a great deal (it took years of experimentation though and really it's impossible to replicate what my ovaries did so naturally). But only when I started an exercise program did it do wonders. It seems counterintuitive when you are in so much pain. I used to be active but from 2005 to 2007 I could barely function. I had to step down from a phyiscal job and go part time at another job. I went through a pain management program and was put on an exercise regiman. I pushed through the pain and became stronger and it made a world of difference. The hormones released from vigorous exercise do something to help regulate your pain signals (and for me it helped regulate hormones too) and I imagine the muscle you build helps cushion those painful joints. My body just functions better with regular good old vigorous exercise and lots of stretching too. I have not had the tender points in a very long time.

I went through all the allergy tests, even had an endoscopy where they stuck a tube with a camera down my throat and into my stomach and intestinal area to look for the signs of Celiac disease (also had the blood tests) and they took a biopsy and sent it to the path lab. All tests were negative except the high level yeast in my stool but that was more than likely from major hormone imbalance due to losing my ovaries overnight than a systemic problem. My Mom has Celiac disease so they were concerned there but I have no signs at all. I do however have unexplained bouts of diarrhea and joint swelling in my fingers that comes on rapidly and then goes away within a day and it only happens very rarely (once a month or so). Still havent figured that out but I started school last year and have been under enormous stress.

I still get joint pains but usually this happens when something causes my thyroid hormone to go out of balance and I need a prescription adjustment (consuming too much soy for example or not eating enough or excessive stress). Have you ever had your thyroid levels checked? TSH, free T4, free T3, etc? You'd be amazed at all the symptoms even a mild thyoid problem can cause, including joint pain, and its often overlooked. A person can develop thyroid problems at any time in life (especially with all the toxins in our environment nowadays...even studies on frogs and seagulls and fish in the area where I live have been found to have thyroid problems). It sounds like, with the prescriptions you have been given, your doctor has been working with you for some time to figure this out. I wish you the best with it. I'm willing to bet eating a strict whole foods plant diet with little processed food will help if your problem is some type of intolerance or allergy. If nothing else it certainly helps the body function better when it doesnt have to process weird things like food dyes and unpronoucable ingredients. Good luck with everything!

[Argonaut]

Do they really work?

When I used to run I found that taking Glucosamine Hydrochloride helped a bit, so I should have started taking it at an earlier date. To what degree it may have helped to regenerate my cartilage I don't know. Taking Omega oils is really a preventative thing, in lieu of not taking fish oils. If you are experiencing joint and back pain, then unless it is the result of a sports injury, it sounds a bit more serious than supplements could alleviate.

[Bjorn]

Thanks
Ok so a bit a waste of money in my case to use supplements, I assume... (I used to find as non vegan those not very expensive so was worth a try, but then if they are dear as vegan alternatives...)
If I'll take some again, I will stick to a diary to spot any change on the long course... Will look rather in the glucosamine than the omega then (I came to glucosamine thanks to the oldest dog, and it seemed to work quite well on him...)

The only thing that did help at some point was the copper I'm wearing since last summer...The condition improved quite nicely for a while, but has gone down lately (it seems partially weather related, my family is quite convinced the joints problem is due to me living in NI with nice damp and cold/mild weather throughout the year... almost 4 years I'm here now)

Thanks Robinwomb for your input as well...
I try to stay as active as I can, I've tried light bodybuilding at home but I injured my shoulder (end 2010) and since then any attemps to light exercises end up in really weird joint sensations (creek, crack, sandy, etc) and I just stick now to the daily brisk walk for a good hour with the dog (more over the weekend) and the stretching and physiotherapy...

I will try the diary then and an elimination program (how long do you need to eliminate a type of food to get a response? or does it work the opposite way around you start with almost nothing and add one by one food types?)

I'm seeing this doctor actually quite recently her previous colleagues didn't really bother to push investigations to try to understand where it comes from... (well back problems are very old between scoliosis, cyphosis and some sciatica but not the joints issue) she asked for a blood test to check something about rhumatoïd arthritis... and it came back negativ. So she referred me to physio, and think it's all related to my back problems, and leaves it to them to sort. Apart from prescribing anti inflammatories and pain killers she can't help me more at her level (she says).

Thanks for having taken the time to respond

[Ontheverge]

When I went vegan, I had an increase in pain in my partially healed ruptured achilles tendon. I went to my physiotherapist and told him about it and the first thing he asked was, "has there been a major dietary change lately?"! I told him yes, that I've been vegan for the past few weeks. He said dairy (which is a non-issue for vegans) and grains have been linked to inflammation and auto-immune diseases. He asked if I'd had an increase in grains in my diet, and I said I had. He recommended going back to my pre-vegan grain level (which was almost non-existent due to grains putting weight on me when I was an omni) until my body had time to adjust. I cut back the grains and within a week, the pain was gone.

So, you could try lowering your grain intake for a few weeks and see if that helps. My stiff ankle (that I broke a year ago) got better with the decrease in grains, as well. Worth a shot!

[Bjorn]

Thanks!!
I'm eating as much or less grains (and obviously no dairy ) since I'm vegan than when I was not...
I've been lately better, jointswise, and mainly eating raw fruits and veggies, so possible it's the gluten/grain but I'm eating so many different things usually (and get bored when I try not to) that it's hard to get a grip on what's the issue...
But I also stopped seeing the physio and to be honest I often felt far worse for a week after each session but in another place than where I initially was sore... (physio shifting the problem a bit further and tada! you're ok you're not sore anymore where you were initially)
I'm trying to replace any gluten product with gluten free for a start.
will try harder

Did you notice a difference when eating gluten free grains? I heard from a few friends that it's the gluten contained in grains which's causing inflammation?