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Thread: B12, required for good health?

  1. #1
    Valentine's Avatar
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    Default B12, required for good health?

    Hi,
    I was vegetarian for 9 years and 4 years and a half I am vegan.
    I've never supplemented with vitamin B12.
    Is it mandatory to supplemented?
    Is not it a manipulation of pharmaceutical?
    I want your opinion, thank you.
    I'm sorry for my english translated of google...

  2. #2
    TarekF's Avatar
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    Default Re: B12, required for good health?

    Je pense que tout de vegans devrait prendre B12. Le foie peut re-synthesize (je ne sais pas le mot en francais) B12 pour 5-7 ans sans B12 supplémentation ainsi il dépend de la personne mais il est bon d'etre en sécurité avec B12 parce qu'il est un trés important vitamin. Je connais un vegan qui ne prendre jamais B12 et est en bonne santé et je connais des vegans qui tombent malades sans B12 supplémentation. Etre sur et prendre la vitamin.

    Désolé pour mon francais.

    English: "I think all vegans should take b12. The liver can re-synthesize B12 for up to 5-7 years so it depends on the person but its good to be safe when it comes to b12 since its very imortant. I know vegans who are fine without any supplementation and those who have fallen ill without it. Be safe and take the vitamin"

    Couldn't resist writing some french as i never get many chances to speak it anymore

  3. #3
    100% sure – I'm going vegan! Chrisanne's Avatar
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    Default Re: B12, required for good health?

    Please excuse me for slightly falling of the topic but how do they make artificial B12? Is the supplement a 100% vegan?
    I'm just very curious!

  4. #4
    DissolveEGO
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    Default Re: B12, required for good health?

    Avoid B12 in the form of: cyanocobalamin. I recommend supplementation (if needed) in the safe form of: methylcobalamin.

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    Default Re: B12, required for good health?

    Quote Chrisanne View Post
    Please excuse me for slightly falling of the topic but how do they make artificial B12? Is the supplement a 100% vegan?
    I'm just very curious!
    Its cultivated by bacteria, definitely vegan

  6. #6
    100% sure – I'm going vegan! Chrisanne's Avatar
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    Default Re: B12, required for good health?

    Quote TarekF View Post
    Its cultivated by bacteria, definitely vegan
    Ok, that's good to know! Thank you, TarekF.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: B12, required for good health?

    Quote DissolveEGO View Post
    Avoid B12 in the form of: cyanocobalamin. I recommend supplementation (if needed) in the safe form of: methylcobalamin.

    Why? The vegan society supplement contains cyanocobalamin. Surely they wouldn't sell something unsafe. I'm interested why you say this.

  8. #8
    DissolveEGO
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    Default Re: B12, required for good health?

    Quote gmc View Post
    Why? The vegan society supplement contains cyanocobalamin. Surely they wouldn't sell something unsafe. I'm interested why you say this.
    The first tip that I have for you is to question everything and everyone. Including the information that I present. It is a great lifestyle habit to research and cross-reference everything from multiple sources. You will learn a lot in the process, as well. Products, as well as with Presidents will tell you what they think you want to hear in order to sell their agenda. So, why would a company sell something unsafe...? Well, I would only be assuming their intent, yet it is clear to me that it comes down to two options; profits-over-people OR ignorance. Either way, they are in the wrong business. With that stated, I will give you a bit of information and a resource to which you can do further investigations:

    "Cyanocobalamin, in summary, is a low-grade, low-quality and slightly toxic (cyanide) form of vitamin B-12 that's used by all the cheap vitamin manufacturers. I recommend avoiding it completely. It won't kill you to take it, of course, but there's a better solution for B-12.

    The most commonly available form of vitamin B-12 on the market is the cheap synthetic form that's actually bound to a cyanide molecule (yes, cyanide, the poison). It's called cyanocobalamin, and you'll find it in all the cheap vitamins made by pharmaceutical companies and sold at grocery stores and big box stores.

    By taking low-quality cyanocobalamin, you're actually stealing methyl groups from your body and making it do more work at the biochemical level. This uses up substances such as glutathione that are often in short supply anyway, potentially worsening your overall health situation rather than helping it. This is one of the reasons why low-grade vitamins may actually be worse for your body than taking nothing at all!

    Cyanocobalamin is a cheap, synthetic chemical made in a laboratory. It's virtually impossible for you to find this form in nature. Low-end vitamin manufacturers use it because it can be bought in bulk and added to products with claims that they "contain vitamin B-12!" What they don't tell you is that the vitamin is bound to a toxic, poisonous cyanide molecule that must then be removed from your body by your liver. Cyanocobalamin is also up to 100 times cheaper than the higher quality methylcobalamin.

    If you have any vitamin B-12 supplements, check the ingredients label right now to see what form of vitamin B-12 they contain. If they contain cyanocobalamin, throw them out!

    The proper form of vitamin B-12 to supplement is called methylcobalamin. This is the form that exists in nature, and it is pre-methylated, meaning it's ready for your biochemistry to put to immediate use. Methylcobalamin has several key advantages over cyanocobalamin.

    The quotes and additional resources to this article can be found at the link below, created by Mike Adams, the Health Ranger, Editor of NaturalNews.com.

    LINK: http://www.naturalnews.com/032766_cy...amin_B-12.html

    In my opinion, Mike Adams is a highly-intelligent, proactive, reliable resource of powerfully enlightening information for optimum health, wellness, and beyond. You may want to consider exploring his intellectual archive. I hope this information helps you and answers your questions. PEACE.

  9. #9
    TarekF's Avatar
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    Default Re: B12, required for good health?

    Quote DissolveEGO View Post
    It is a great lifestyle habit to research and cross-reference everything from multiple sources.
    What sources are you presenting? Cause that article isn't citing (so probably isn't referencing) science, though i can trust the part that he links bbc. Its odd, i have always heard some of what you say in your post, i haven't found a paper which verifies it that i can access http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs...65527109180702 this seems to conclude something substantial about absorption but im not allowed to look at the results.

    I know that cyano has to be converted in the liver to methyl. So if your body has problems with that process then you need to take methyl or injections.

    For a resource with actual citations http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Vit...hProfessional/

    Btw, one thing we do know (cause its not clear based on evidence whether cyano or methyl is better) is that lower more frequent doses are absorbed better (as far as percentages go) and mono mega doses have decreased rates of absorption.

    Here is something about the effectiveness of cyanocobalamin vs hydroxycobalamin vs cyanocobalamin zinc-tannate
    "Patient Variation in Pernicious Anaemia, as Shown in a Clinical Trial of Cyanocobalamin, Hydroxocobalamin and Cyanocobalamin–Zinc Tannate" by G. R. Tudhope, H. T. Swan, G. H. Spray

    My opinion, go with what you can afford. I found a methylcobalamin dissolvable tab that i take ( all i do i nibble a bit off of it each day). I *think* methyl is better, but i don't presume to know for sure, and i doubt the cyanide is enough to do any harm to the body (i hope not cause i gobble up nutritional yeast).

    Not to play admin though, but the topic isn't about methyl vs cyano, its about whether B12 supplementation is needed, so we should probably make a new thread about this or find an old one.

  10. #10
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: B12, required for good health?

    Quote DissolveEGO View Post
    In my opinion, Mike Adams is a highly-intelligent, proactive, reliable resource of powerfully enlightening information for optimum health, wellness, and beyond.
    Wow - that sounds like an ad. :.) Mike Adams, an active promoter of use of animal products, is good at finding studies and news others may ignore, but keeps posting his very biased opinions without really discussing both sides of an argument, and puts in propaganda-ish stuff in addition to facts only to influence people who don't know better, mixed up with attacks on Barack Obama and posting clips on YouTube with himself rapping about health. He doesn't mention which arguments that have been used pro cyan-cobalamin and against methyl-cobalamin, and uses a cheap pseudo-argument ("cyanide, the poison") without mentioning that microscopic amounts of cyanide appears naturally in food (like eg spinach, lima beans and almonds).

    But The Vegan Society isn't much better - they only scratch the surface when it comes to informing about B12 - and like Mike Adams, don't inform about much, if anything at all, the discussion about the differences between cyancobalamin and methylcobalamin, and in general avoid mentioning lots of stiff which is highly relevant for vegans in terms of B12. And both Adams and The Vegan Society seem to refuse to acknowledge or inform about the plants which are claimed to be useful as B12 sources, even when taking that good old discussion about inactive B12 analogues which aren't bioavailable for humans into consideration.

    IMHO the only proper way to inform about this is to refer to the relevant studies about these topics, instead of posting a firm conclusion not backed up be scientific sources. I don't see neither Mike Adams or The Vegan Society as reliable sources for info about B12, and know that many don't.

    If you's ask 100 people with some experience in reading health related reports and studies, at last 95 of them would most likely say that Natural News and The Vegan Society) aren't someone which they consider good or reliable information sources. That's not an argument as such, but based on what I just explained, I agree with the reasons not to use these sites as sources for balanced info about B12.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  11. #11
    Valentine's Avatar
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    Default Re: B12, required for good health?

    It is very interesting to read.
    What brand of vitamin B12 that is buy vegan?
    There was? that? : http://www.unmondevegan.com/complements,fr,3,69.cfm
    Even in the U.S. I can order.
    In France we say that the reserves of B12 in the human body in a vegan runs about 3/4 years.

    Thank you for your advice.

  12. #12
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: B12, required for good health?

    In France we say that the reserves of B12 in the human body in a vegan runs about 3/4 years.
    There are many general theories about B12 'reserves', but some people have extremely high levels of B12 when they go vegan, others are B12 deficient or at least low levels of B12 before they go vegan. Plus - it all depends on various lifestyle habits, coffee/sugar/tobacco/alcohol consumption and a lot more, as discussed eg, here: http://www.veganforum.com/forums/sho...B12-deficiency

    I haven't heard of any B12 supplements containing animal products. And - if your B12 levels for some reason are (very) high, maybe the best idea would be to go a period without any B12 consumption...

    Not to play admin though, but the topic isn't about methyl vs cyano, its about whether B12 supplementation is needed, so we should probably make a new thread about this or find an old one.
    Thanks - I'm closing this thread now - please continue in other threads...

    Some existing discussions:
    Should I start taking B12 supplements?

    What brand B12 supplement do you use - if you use any?

    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

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