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Thread: new to here and question about family dynamics

  1. #1
    100% sure – I'm going vegan!
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    Default new to here and question about family dynamics

    Hello everyone, I'm new to this forum and have my first question!
    I went flexitarian 6 months ago and now found the confidence to try eating vegan.
    DH is still a meat-eater.
    Now, DH and I are fine with that arrangement, but what to do about 4.5 yr old DD and 1.5 yr old DS?
    Of course, I would like them to get the health benefits of a vegan or mostly vegan diet. I would also like to teach them to take responsibility for their consumption.
    Seems simple, but I actually have some hang-ups which I don't want to pass on to the kids. For example, last night I found it very difficult to watch the kids eating the (unhealthy) ice creams that DH had brought home while I had a (healthy) apple. It seemed to me that I was prioritizing my own health over theirs which I don't want to do. If the ice creams are not good enough for me then why do I let the kids eat them.
    I also believe very much in the environmental reasons for not consuming meat, but I find it hard to set limits on meat consumption with my kids and explain why I find it wrong to overconsume meat. It is like pointing a finger at all those around me who eat meat and saying that they are wrong and I am right.
    How do I help my kids cut down on animal products without causing any confusion or bad feelings for them?
    Thank you for taking the time to read this.

  2. #2
    Abe Froman Risker's Avatar
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    Default Re: new to here and question about family dynamics

    There are books for young children that explain veganism that might help, try here - http://www.amazon.com/Books-for-Vege.../RROJ5NCBW4DLU

    I don't know which if any are any good unfortunately though or if there are any in German if that's what you need.
    "I don't want to live on this planet any more" - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth

  3. #3
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: new to here and question about family dynamics

    Hi, and welcome!

    You know, veganism isn't only about what you eat... it's also about whether your choices in life support animal cruelty or not.

    Creating or maintaining a child's habit of using animal products has a more negative effect on humans/animals/the environment than just stopping to use animal products. And both from an ethical and health point of view, it's worth thinking of the long term effect of almost training a kid to get used to (and later, possibly even crave) something which isn't good for them/for the animals/environment. This may sound strange, but if I'd have to choose between not using animal products vs. making sure I didn't create habits of using animal products for my kids, I'd rather use animal products myself and make sure my kids got what I considered the right habits - and also the most healthy products.



    I also believe very much in the environmental reasons for not consuming meat, but I find it hard to set limits on meat consumption with my kids and explain why I find it wrong to overconsume meat.
    If you only think that 'overconsumption' of meat is bad, they'd get confused. And if you are not confused, I don't think they will be, other than a short period of wondering why they you gave them certain products 6 months ago and won't do it now. But it's very easy for a kid (much easier than for most adults) to understand that somone don't want to buy or use something if it means that animal has to suffer. For a child, this is a lot easier to understand than "healthier". But if a child is frustrated by an adult not letting them have something for health reasons, ask them if they would give something to a dog or cat of it was bad for it's health, and they'll accept that choice soon without much hassle too.

    It is like pointing a finger at all those around me who eat meat and saying that they are wrong and I am right.
    Any ethical choice in life, and/or communicating about it, could easily be seen as pointing a finger - but that can't IMHO be seen as a valid reason to keep doing something one feels is wrong. If you just do what you feel is right and avoid pointing fingers, it won't be difficult in the long run. If parents change thir behaviour/choices in terms of food or anything else, I think that being 'nice' about it not pointing fingers, + presenting the change as as something positive instead of choosing a more authoritarian approach is essential. This may be even more important of ony one of the parents change.


    How do I help my kids cut down on animal products without causing any confusion or bad feelings for them?
    IMO, you do it by using your freedom to act according to what you feel is right and wrong. This is what parents usually do a lot anyway, even when it includes making some unpopular statements and choices. But your kids may of course confused for a while about your change - because you made different decisions earlier.

    If you only want to 'try eating vegan', or only want to avoid animal products in food, you may both confuse others and have a hard time explaining your viewpoints, especially when the kids get older. And you can't expect your husband to understand or respect you fully if you still spend money on certain animal products, unless you're in the middle of a gradual change towards avoding all animal products (as much as practical and possible).


    I would also like to teach them to take responsibility for their consumption.
    And - that's only possible if you start by taking responsibility for their consumption, isn't it? from an ethical point of view. From an ethical point of view, feeding kids on something which may give them eg. health problems or even cancer later in life isn't really that different from letting them play in a street with dangerous traffic situations (except for the time aspect of it), unless if the health risks are minimal. If you are OK with the choices your make, things will probably simply sort themselves out.

    I find it hard to set limits on meat consumption with my kids
    If you give them meat one day, and not another, you're giving/maintaining the meat habit one day, and then try to fight it the next. That could be hard!

    Reducing meat in a non-vegan household is about 'healtier', not about 'vegan' - and is similar like reducing kids' sugar intake or ask a 17-year old child to smoke less. Maybe the situation you need to sort out the most is is about which way you communicate your husband about this, because you can't expect him to all of a sudden make the same choices as you do, or stop giving his kids food he is OK with giving them. If you's tell your husband that you can't 'let him' buy ice cream to your kids, he's probably just going dislike you for saying that!

    But you have the freedom to make the choices you want to make as long as they don't harm others, and if you feel OK about making different choice than you used to make, others will probably accept these changes. My semi-blind guess is that you need to be sure about wheter your really want to go vegan or not.

    And if it's only a health thing, you still need to find out if you are OK with using/buying some animal products. If you buy leather shoes, you can't really criticize your husband for buying dairy ice cream for your kids - not from a vegan perspective. You could do it from a health perspective - but it still wouldn't make sense to do it so you occasionally give them unhealthy vegan stuff (there's lots of sugary, vegan junk food out there).

    I give my 11 year old vegan ice cream occasionally, but I don't see limited use of eating things like that as something which causes health problems. On the contrary, I think kids will feel more at ease with whatever dietary choices their parents make on behalf of them if they include some sweets and goodies now and then.

    They may not have any problems at all with not using animal products as such, or with being 'different', but if others eat ice cream or chocolate, they may want it too, and like it. Plus - if I want to enjoy the occasional non-healthy snack, can I exect my kids to always avoid them? I don't think so.

    Sugar isn't unhealthy in limited small quantities, but whether we use dairy milk or meat, this isn't about health 'risk' for the animals: killing an animal is always part of that reality - even milk production. And since habits sometimes die hard, I think that the question you asked, with a slight modification is 100% relevant: "Since dairy ice creams cause animal suffering are not good enough for us , then why should we let the kids eat them?"

    Buy only you can answer your own question. If you occasionally buy meat for your kids dinner, can you really *not* let your husband, who isn't a vegan, buy dairy ice dream for dessert? ;-]
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  4. #4

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    Default Re: new to here and question about family dynamics

    Hello Heather, great that you are going vegan!

    One thing - if you want your kids to go vegan as well, better do it earlier than later. Once their meat-eating habits are fortified, it will be very hard to get them to abandon animal products. Make sure that your husband supports it. Not many things that are worse if you "forbid" your kids to eat animal products while your husband is munching on a big steak or other horrible animal product.

    Expect lots of antagonism from everybody else - kindergarden, school, relatives, everybody's grandmother will volunteer their (unfounded) beliefs that animal products are required for healthy living - be sure to check out the ADA position on vegetarian diets (google or search on this site, unfortunately I do not have much time right now).

    Best regards and welcome to the forum!
    Andy

    BTW, where in Germany are you based? There are some awesome regional vegan groups that might help you with much-needed support...

  5. #5
    100% sure – I'm going vegan!
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    Default Re: new to here and question about family dynamics

    Korn, thank you for your honest and detailed reply! This really gives me a lot to think about-- and discuss with DH. Surprisingly he is supporting me more than I expected and like you said if I do what I gotta do with confidence, maybe even he will go along with it! That's why I really need a period of time to do this alone before breaking the news to DD. And I need to plan everything out carefully and make sure DH is in agreement. The last thing I want is the kids getting caught inbetween me and DH fighting and behaving inconsistently. I have a feeling your suggestion for stocking up on vegan ice cream might be a good place to start, so I am going to keep on experimenting with vegan dishes and "imitation" products as dd really enjoys meat and dairy. Perhaps as a first step we can start eating vegan at home, when DH is not home at least, without anyone even noticing! Then I am thinking of some books like Risker mentioned, to help explain to DD why we are making the changes--next of course a visit to the dr to see what supplements we need and win the drs approval, which I have a feeling will be the key to getting the kindergarten to agree to vegan lunches.
    And thank you for mentioning the non-food aspects of being vegan, it seems I have a lot of research to do. I apologize if the idea of "overconsumption of meat" was even a bit offensive to a long-time vegan, I probably don't think quite the same as the people on this site yet but I am moving in that direction. IMO just because I can't get my family to go 100% overnight doesn't mean I shouldn't go ahead and try as much as I can! Just for the record, it is DH and the kindergarten that offer the kids meat, I have offered them dairy and eggs up until just a few days ago like I said and only offered meat on nights DH requested it during the last 6 months. I think I am ready now to stop offering. Thank you so much again for all your good advice.

    Andy T, I am in Düsseldorf, if you know anyone here, especially English speaking, I would love to get in touch! I'm really curious specifically about how things are going to work with the kindergarten, as they seem so set in their ways.

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