When to speak up and when to keep quiet

[LaChicaVegetariana]

When is the "right" time to speak up for yourself when meat eaters say ignorant, frustrating things, and when is it better to let it slide? Although it's hard to fight the urge to just start yelling (and whip out the facts) when someone says something without thinking, that's not always taken lightly...especially when an omni gets defense at the very mention of the word "soymilk." Any advice on good timing for vegan discussion?

[Korn]

I guess I mainly talk with people about veganism if they take the initiative and seem interested. But....: 'urge to just start yelling' seems like pretty good indicator of a *not* good time to try to promote your viewpoints about anything to anyone.

[Clueless Git]

When is the "right" time to speak up for yourself when meat eaters say ignorant, frustrating things, and when is it better to let it slide?

'Lo Lachica

The third option is to 'switch the table', as it were.

Not much (if anything at all) that omnis say, either to 'attack' veg*ism or to defend carnism, cannot be parralled with something that the meat eater his/her self will find reprehensible or gross.

M'personal favourite (apologies to those who have heard it 1,001 times before) works something like this:

1. Explain to omni that I am only vegan as a protest against not being allowed to be a cannibal.

2. Confirm that we cannibals agree with whatever it was they said and apply it as justification for the cannibal cause.

Upshot, 99 times out of 100, is that the omni will take up swords against his/her own argument. Nothing works though; Humans can/could be 'bred for purpose'; cannibalism could be confined to eating only people of lesser intelligence than our own (what's the point of evolving to the top of the human food chain if you can't eat less evolved human's 'meat'?) ; cannibalism of 'excess' humans (the homeless/unemployed/minimum wagers?) is far kinder than letting them starve to death on the streets; 'human-stock' raised on animal meat would be a far better source of B12 and Iron than chickens fed on corn could ever be? etc, etc, etc


Should add that there probably is a time just to shut up but, quite frankly, I never know when that is.

[Robinwomb]

Usually, if someone is being obnoxious and defensive/offensive I don't bother because they won't hear me anyway, unless it is a personal insult towards me then I will defend myself. If they ask questions in a polite or genuinely concerned or interested way then I share. The only time I lost my cool was with my husband a few times. He's gotten better at not making snide comments but it's taken a LOOOT of patience on my part. Then again, it took a while for my comments about his style of eating to stop too.

[harpy]

Timing is quite important - I think if the conversation goes off in a meat-based direction it is good to "out" yourself as a vegan early on, as it's a bit embarrassing if the conversation goes on for a while before you mention it. That happened to me recently, I thought I would let it go but then I couldn't

Apart from that, I tend to keep my discussions factual and explain my reasons for being vegan etc rather than directly attacking the other person. People, or at any rate the sort of people I come across, take more notice that way.

[BellaTanie]

Apart from that, I tend to keep my discussions factual and explain my reasons for being vegan etc rather than directly attacking the other person. People, or at any rate the sort of people I come across, take more notice that way.

I also try to keep things quite factual instead of attacking the person. It is tough sometimes though, some people can just be extremely ignorant. Most people I meet just think I am extremely weird for being vegan and just leave it at that.....they are not interested in why. If I do explain why they don't seem to care and just go about their business. Something I still don't quite understand.

[Nathan John Pryke]

I would say that it's not when to speak up but how. Human beings in general are quite selfish in nature, I have got more response while talking about health benefits like weight loss or spot reduction then animal welfare. People put animal cruelty out of their minds but care about their figures and how people perceive them.

[BellaTanie]

Nathan what u r saying is very sad but very true. And sometimes even when u focus on things that can benefit their health or the way they look they still don't want to change.

[Clueless Git]

I would say that it's not when to speak up but how. Human beings in general are quite selfish in nature, I have got more response while talking about health benefits like weight loss or spot reduction then animal welfare. People put animal cruelty out of their minds but care about their figures and how people perceive them.

Unfortunately it is easy for vegans to put how omni's percieve them a wee bit too far up their priority list, sometimes, I think.

Chaffes m'britches, that does; All but the rarest few if, say, they came face to face with an unashamed kiddy-fiddler, would not care a damn about how such a 'monster' would perceive them at all.

Most likely the exact opposite, in fact. Definitely a no holds barred, say it as it is, let the b'stard have both barrels, exchange of views that would be?

That out of (1) yapping along with the pack (in defense of the kiddy fiddlers prey) and (2) yapping against the pack (in defense of the pack's prey); One takes far more balls than the other is kinda hard to ignore.

[Nathan John Pryke]

Unfortunately it is easy for vegans to put how omni's percieve them a wee bit too far up their priority list, sometimes, I think. Chaffes m'britches, that does; All but the rarest few if, say, they came face to face with an unashamed kiddy-fiddler, would not care a damn about how such a 'monster' would perceive them at all. Most likely the exact opposite, in fact. Definitely a no holds barred, say it as it is, let the b'stard have both barrels, exchange of views that would be? That out of (1) yapping along with the pack (in defense of the kiddy fiddlers prey) and (2) yapping against the pack (in defense of the pack's prey); One takes far more balls than the other is kinda hard to ignore.

Yeah you're right, that last sentence was stereotyping omnivores, but that was said from my personal experience. I'm not apart of the brave group defending the pedophile nor the victim. I'm just the guy sitting on his sofa in his bathrobe watching the story unravel on the news.

[maiapleiades79]

I have kept quiet for too long. From now on, I am not going to feel like I have to defend being vegan. When someone asks me, "Why are you vegan?" I am going to turn the tables and ask them, "Why arent you?" Granted I have no idea how this will play out in real life since I havent done it yet, but I am tired of feeling like I should keep quiet about my veganism in order to avoid making the flesh eaters uncomfortable. I like to think of this: vegans are EXTREME? Yes, we are....we are extremely against a world built upon extreme cruelty, extreme violence, extreme selfishness, extreme apathy. WE are the ones advocating PEACE and the right to life for all living creatures, and yet we feel badly for expressing our passion for living a vegan lifestyle? NO MORE!

[Clueless Git]

I have kept quiet for too long. From now on, I am not going to feel like I have to defend being vegan. When someone asks me, "Why are you vegan?" I am going to turn the tables and ask them, "Why arent you?" Granted I have no idea how this will play out in real life since I havent done it yet ..

I have played that one out many times. My starting 'preposition' is that (once all the BS has been parsed away) then only two reasons for NOT being vegan can possibly exist. Those are:

1. Ignorance (of the facts - can be innocence of the facts, initialy)

2. Selfishness (don't give a flying rats-todger about the facts - only care about .. ME!)

Which will frequently manifest as;

3. Intentional ignorance born of the need not to admit to being #2.

My reason for being vegan then simply being stated as that I choose to be vegan as the only actual choices that exist are;

1. Be a vegan.

2. Be an intentionaly ignorant 4rse.

[BellaTanie]

Cupid one can only play the ignorance card for so long. I was EXTREMELY ignorant.....but decided to start doing some research on my own. Once confronted by the facts one cannot go back.....vegan is the only choice there is, unless you are not a good person, right? Something I have a lot of trouble with bc a lot of people I love just don't want to become educated on this, so in my opinion that makes them no longer innocent. So how do I become ok with them being the way they are? This is where I am stuck. I am trying so hard not to press my views on anyone else, but this isn't really an opinion about something trivial. One of the main arguments people give me is the animal knows no different, it doesn't understand what is happening. IGNORANCE.

[Clueless Git]

Cupid one can only play the ignorance card for so long. I was EXTREMELY ignorant.....but decided to start doing some research on my own. Once confronted by the facts one cannot go back.....vegan is the only choice there is, unless you are not a good person, right? Something I have a lot of trouble with bc a lot of people I love just don't want to become educated on this, so in my opinion that makes them no longer innocent. So how do I become ok with them being the way they are? This is where I am stuck. I am trying so hard not to press my views on anyone else, but this isn't really an opinion about something trivial. One of the main arguments people give me is the animal knows no different, it doesn't understand what is happening. IGNORANCE.

Jeez! You really have snapped wide awake and found yourself all alone surrounded by the madmen in the asylum, haven't you?

I can tell you one coping mechanism I find very usefull, if that's any help? It's gonna be a bit of a convoluted ramble though ...

There is a saying, by Gandhi, that "happiness is when what you think, what you say and what you do are all in harmony". There is also a theme in buddhism that the only way to true happiness (bliss) for self is rooted in the desire for others to be happy.

Putting the two together, albeit very simplisticly; When we see, in ourself or in others, disharmony twix thought and word and action it should, if we wish to be happy ourselves, trigger only a desire to restore that harmony.

One 'trick' here is to lead a person to recognise a disharmony in themselves. To put them in conflict with themself, which is where the conflict in disharmonious people originates from anyway? Idealy to become a 'benign facilitator' in the resolving of other peoples internal conflicts, as it were.

M'personal experience is that seeing things in the light of "I am not in conflict with this person. This person is simply exploring his/her own inner conflicts through me" helps greatly with maintaining a compassionate attitude (and remaining less overwhelmed by the disharmonious chaos around us) where a compassionate attitude may seem to be totaly undeserved.

Time restraints prevent me from typing the entire anthology of 'The World according to some totaly Cupid Stunt' right now ..

I hope something in there makes just a tiny bit of sense?

[Andy_T]

Once confronted by the facts one cannot go back.....vegan is the only choice there is, unless you are not a good person, right?

Well said, Tanya!

[BellaTanie]

There is a saying, by Gandhi, that "happiness is when what you think, what you say and what you do are all in harmony". There is also a theme in buddhism that the only way to true happiness (bliss) for self is rooted in the desire for others to be happy.

Putting the two together, albeit very simplisticly; When we see, in ourself or in others, disharmony twix thought and word and action it should, if we wish to be happy ourselves, trigger only a desire to restore that harmony.

I have never heard anything from Buddhism before, how absolutely beautiful. It is so very true, and I am going to remember this.

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M'personal experience is that seeing things in the light of "I am not in conflict with this person. This person is simply exploring his/her own inner conflicts through me" helps greatly with maintaining a compassionate attitude (and remaining less overwhelmed by the disharmonious chaos around us) where a compassionate attitude may seem to be totaly undeserved.

I am going to seriously repeat this to myself.....a lot lol. Thank you so much Cupid, once again you're wisdom is amazing.

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Thanks Andy (:

[Clueless Git]

I have never heard anything from Buddhism before, how absolutely beautiful. It is so very true, and I am going to remember this.

Never heard anything from Buddhism before???

You will have done many times Tanya but just not have been aware of its origin. Buddhism, if you ignore the religious clap-trap that has attached to it, is simply a complete science of the human condition. In relation to the conditions of mind that lead to happiness and those that lead to suffering, that is.

Even the new science of Cognitive Behaviour Therapy (CBT) is pretty much a rehash/refinding of Buddhism's 'Four Noble Truths'. The fundamental 'truth' of each being that "if you live you will experience suffering" and both leading on to "now that we have established that, here's how to cope with it".

Wandering further off topic still: If you've ever heard anything from New Testament (NT) Christianity which is irrefutably right and true that will be found in buddhism (buddha precedes Christ by some 500 years) also.

Anyways, a link for you, the one I read that first triggered my own interest in buddhism. It describes the 'Four Immeasurable Hearts' (FiH); The four states of mind that, if mastered, lead to true and permananent happiness.

http://www.viewonbuddhism.org/immeas...rejoicing.html


(Flipping back to the NT thing; The FiH's of buddhism also happen to be an exact match of the revised qualities of the Christian God as set out by Jesus)

Thank you so much Cupid, once again you're wisdom is amazing.

My love of flattery is amazing. DEFINITELY!

"Please don't feed the Ego" ~Dilbert

[BellaTanie]

Tomorrow morning I will check out the link, ty (:

[BellaTanie]

The link is very interesting! I love religion soooo I am enjoying it. There is a ton of information on it, thinking I will be on it for quite a while lol