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Thread: side effects from stopping milk?

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    zazu's Avatar
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    Default side effects from stopping milk?

    My fiance has been a lacto-vegetarian his whole life, and the other day after watching "Forks Over Knives" with me, he decided he wanted to be vegan too, so he stopped drinking milk that day.

    However, instead of feeling good (which I thought would happen), he started getting side effects, like headaches, pain in his gums/teeth, lack of ability to focus/think properly, grumpiness, overall weakness, and inability to handle stress, so he had to go back to milk. He said this always happens when he stops drinking it, which is why he didn't try to go vegan before.

    It's really just actual milk that's the issue. Since I moved in, milk is pretty much the only non-vegan part of his diet, and since we cook together, all of our meals are vegan. But he drinks it every day with some chocolate vitamin powder that also contains dairy.

    I told him to either find a replacement for those vitamins or go off milk gradually, but he wouldn't listen. I tried to get him to try the powder in soy milk, but he refuses to drink soy milk. I think he would be more open almond milk, but it's not readily available around here.

    Has anyone else ever experienced negative side effects from stopping dairy?

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    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: side effects from stopping milk?? what to do?

    There is apparently some evidence that casein (a protein in milk) is addictive.

    http://www.vegsource.com/articles2/b..._seduction.htm

    This alleged addiction is most often mentioned in connection with cheese but I suppose you could get it with milk as well. If I was addicted to something I think I would want to get off it, but I suppose you can't make someone else do it if they don't really want to.

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    Default Re: side effects from stopping milk?? what to do?

    Thanks for the article. That's interesting how there's actually morphine in cow's milk, even if it's a little bit. I wonder if that could explain some of his symptoms, or if he just wasn't eating enough food, since he often takes milk in place of a meal.

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    Default Re: side effects from stopping milk?? what to do?

    Hi Zazu! I'm new to this forum and veganism, and what you describe sounds a lot like what I experienced after giving up meat and then dairy the following week. I felt amazingly better for about the first week or so but then started feeling ill, so I did some research to see if this was normal. I discovered a term called the "healing crisis", which described what was going on. It really helped reading symptoms and explanations as well as dozens of other people's experiences with it all over the internet. The gist of the healing crisis is that after you rapidly start a new healthy lifestyle/ detox toxins or a food allergy, your body suddenly becomes much healthier and then takes that opportunity to start expelling toxins from the rest of the body, since before it was too bogged down to do so. This detoxification could explain why your fiancee feels sick after giving up milk, aside from the addiction aspect.

    After a week or two of feeling amazing, I started to feel like I was coming down with a flu, feeling terribly weak and fatigued and achy, followed by the grand finale of an emotional upheaval-very erratic mood swings and crying spells. A few days later, I was on my way to feeling great again and the emotional hurt I experienced felt very distant. I know this is just my experience, but maybe it can provide some insight and hope for your and your fiancee! I won't say that the healing crisis is the definite answer here, but since I've just gone through this the past few weeks I wanted to share what I learned! It's definitely worth reading up on a little bit. If you want to talk about it more feel free to reach out.

    Best of luck!
    Katelyn

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    Default Re: side effects from stopping milk?? what to do?

    Thanks, Katelyn, that makes a lot of sense! I know someone who had a healing crisis when she first went on the raw food diet, and once she got past the flu-like symptoms, ended up feeling great, had tons of energy, and lost a lot of weight. Maybe that could be it. I told him to do it gradually but he just rushed into it, so maybe he'll be willing to try it more slowly and have better results (he works a lot so he can't spend much time being sick).

    Thanks and welcome to the forum!

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    Default Re: side effects from stopping milk?

    I'm another who can confirm the "pain of transition".
    When I went from - ahem - normal to ovo-lacto I had no problems.
    When I went from that to vegan, different matter altogether!
    For around a month I had terrible pain in my bones and felt that my teeth felt like they were softening, actually "bending" while I ate.
    I had the first "flu" I had had for over a decade and just felt like crap.
    I also got an extremely itchy scalp (which even now, 4 years later I can't seem to shift for some reason or another - the only downside I have found from going vegan, but I have a theory it's that I may no be getting enough fat in my diet, as I don't eat things like margerine going back before I even turned veggie).

    But, after around a month the bones got better. The teeth got better.
    Still the itchy scalp though....

    From my understanding though the bones/teeth thing is something to do with your body "adjusting" because it's used to getting calcium from dairy, and now has to adapt to getting it from plants.
    Not sure of the science, or if it is actually true - maybe someone else can explain it better?

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    Default Re: side effects from stopping milk?

    I didn't have any problems stopping milk, but as you have said Zazu, if he is experiencing side effects its best for him to do it gradually.
    I was wondering if it could be withdrawal symptoms from the cocktail of chemicals and medicine in milk:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...lass-milk.html

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    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: side effects from stopping milk?

    Quote VampireJack View Post
    Still the itchy scalp though....
    If you haven't already, you might want to try adding a source of omega 3 oils to what you eat as they are supposed to be good for various bits of you including skin and hair and to help with itchniness. (Sorry I haven't got a good link for this to hand but there is a bit about it if you Google "omega 3 itchy skin".)

    I put hemp or rapeseed oil on my toast etc (linseed/flax oil is even better from the omega 3 point of view but doesn't taste as nice).

    I don't think milk is a source of omega 3 (unless it's added to it of course) but it might still help.

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    Default Re: side effects from stopping milk?

    Quote harpy View Post
    If you haven't already, you might want to try adding a source of omega 3 oils to what you eat as they are supposed to be good for various bits of you including skin and hair and to help with itchniness. (Sorry I haven't got a good link for this to hand but there is a bit about it if you Google "omega 3 itchy skin".)

    I put hemp or rapeseed oil on my toast etc (linseed/flax oil is even better from the omega 3 point of view but doesn't taste as nice).

    I don't think milk is a source of omega 3 (unless it's added to it of course) but it might still help.
    I think it is my own fault to be honest, that I don't get enough "fat" in my diet.
    Long before I even considered going veg*n I had already cut out things like salt and margarine from my diet, and deep down I know I "should" make sure I have some margarine I find it difficult as it makes food taste greasy. Even something as simple as a chip bun with margarine on it. Urgh.
    I do "try" and remember to have a glass of juice with flax in it daily, with a handful of sunflower seeds but I keep forgetting. Must be the lack of omegas that is stopping the electrical pulse that control memory jumping across!
    I also have several different oils that I "could" be taking a spoonful of daily, but I keep forgetting to do that too!

    As I said, I know the itchy scalp in "probably" my own fault but it's bloody annoying!


    What also makes it worse is that I suffer from (possibly, not been 100% confirmed yet) Crohn's Disease, which due to the nature of it stops me eating a hearty breakfast in the morning (if I do eat - I can't go anywhere.....) and I often only eat once a day. Which is a pain in the ass.
    It also makes it difficult assimilating the nutrients in my diet - which makes the vegan thing even more tricky. But, no-one ever said that it was gonna be easy.....You have a belief system and you can't just "give up" on it when you hit an obstacle.

    Gotta go now - heads itching!

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    Default Re: side effects from stopping milk?

    @vampireJack, for that itchy head, try washing your hair with bicarb of soda (put a tablespoon in water and swish round, pour on and massage in to hair and scalp) and rinsing with a solution of 50:50 apple cider vinegar and water, leave a minute like you would conditioner then rinse (it doesnt smell when rinsed, honest)
    "when the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace" Jimi Hendrix

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    Bad Buddhist Clueless Git's Avatar
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    Default Re: side effects from stopping milk?

    Have you tried adding Advocados and nuts to your diet Jack?

    Nuts and seeds are some of nature’s ideal foods for humans and the best way for us to get our healthy fats. They can satiate true hunger better than oils because they are rich in critical nutrients and fibers and have one-quarter the calories of an equal amount of oil. They should be part of your healthy eating-style. Many people perceive raw nuts as high-fat, high-calorie foods that should be avoided or consumed in only token amounts. The important role of raw nuts and seeds in the American diet has been almost completely ignored by nutritional advisers, and their absence is a huge flaw in American cuisine. The results of recent research have changed this perception completely. Today, more and more researchers are finally aware that it is not fat in general that is the villain, but saturated fat, trans fat, and fats consumed in a processed form. Fats from avocado, raw nuts, and seeds are rich in antioxidants and phytochemicals that not only offer unique health benefits, but also maintain the freshness of the food, preventing rancidity of the fat within.

    http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives...to-health.html
    All done in the best possible taste ...

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    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: side effects from stopping milk?

    Quote VampireJack View Post
    Long before I even considered going veg*n I had already cut out things like salt and margarine from my diet, and deep down I know I "should" make sure I have some margarine I find it difficult as it makes food taste greasy. Even something as simple as a chip bun with margarine on it. Urgh.
    I don't think there's any "should" about it - I can't see that margarine has much going for it and I have never been keen on it either. The only time I use it is in baking cakes etc (and I only do that about once every five years )

    Maybe you could find a more palatable way to take the seeds - sprinkle on salad or something? Walnuts are meant to be good as well if you like those any better.

    Sorry to hear about the health problems, hope things get a bit easier once you have a diagnosis.

  13. #13

    Default Re: side effects from stopping milk?

    Hi Jack

    I have problems with my digestive system too which have been diagnosed as IBS but my symptoms mirror the symptons of my workmates Crohn's Disease. I get the impression that IBS is the label attached to any digestive complaint the medical profession cant be bothered to investigate further!

    Previous to turning Vegan my symptoms were quite severe and causing me a lot pf problems-especially in the mornings ). The GP threw some medication at it but nothing made much difference.

    When I changed to a Vegan diet I had several glorious years where I was virtually symptom free and also lost two stone..I thought all my Christmases had come at once!

    Unfortunately over the last six months or so the symptoms are back, I really do not understand why but have put it down to stress which I know is tied in strongly with IBS?

    When I discussed it with the GP I was told that a Vegan diet is the worst of all diets for such conditions as it involves consumption of food that the body finds hard to break down. It all seemed to make no sense to me espeically as my conditon had actually been worse on an omin diet ???? !!!!

    I am now in a position where I dare not risk eating on a work day morning for fear of being camped out in the toilet and having to explain myself!!!

  14. #14
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: side effects from stopping milk?

    That sounds rotten, Eileen. Can you have a go at getting referred to a specialist, or have you already tried that?

    Sounds as if GP may not be that clued-up on the dietary aspect of it - what are the foods that vegans eat that other people don't? (I suppose you've seen the advice here http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Irritab...Treatment.aspx which suggests it might be good to adjust the ratio of soluble:insoluble fibre.)

    I remember reading that sometimes people get diagnosed as having IBS when they actually have an infection. (A friend thought this might have happened to her as she got it after a trip somewhere exotic and nothing she did seemed to help but then it just went away.) So that might be worth investigating if you're not sure why it has come back? Stress does have an impact on digestive processes as well in my experience but yours sounds a bit dramatic unless the stress level went up suddenly six months ago :/

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    zazu's Avatar
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    Default Re: side effects from stopping milk?

    Quote VampireJack View Post
    I'm another who can confirm the "pain of transition".
    When I went from - ahem - normal to ovo-lacto I had no problems.
    When I went from that to vegan, different matter altogether!
    For around a month I had terrible pain in my bones and felt that my teeth felt like they were softening, actually "bending" while I ate.
    I had the first "flu" I had had for over a decade and just felt like crap.
    I also got an extremely itchy scalp (which even now, 4 years later I can't seem to shift for some reason or another - the only downside I have found from going vegan, but I have a theory it's that I may no be getting enough fat in my diet, as I don't eat things like margerine going back before I even turned veggie).

    But, after around a month the bones got better. The teeth got better.
    Still the itchy scalp though....

    From my understanding though the bones/teeth thing is something to do with your body "adjusting" because it's used to getting calcium from dairy, and now has to adapt to getting it from plants.
    Not sure of the science, or if it is actually true - maybe someone else can explain it better?
    That's good to hear that your bones/teeth got better, though that scalp problem doesn't sound good- hopefully some of what others have suggested will work- have you tried a natural hair oil (the kind you leave on for a half hour or overnight and then wash out)?? Something like coconut and sesame with calming essential oils (like lavender, geranium, or rose)? I don't know if that would help, I've never heard of itchy scalp before, but if nothing else works, it might be worth a try.

    Quote Firestorm View Post
    I didn't have any problems stopping milk, but as you have said Zazu, if he is experiencing side effects its best for him to do it gradually.
    I was wondering if it could be withdrawal symptoms from the cocktail of chemicals and medicine in milk:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...lass-milk.html
    That's awful- last month I read another similar article about milk in India (where we are now). It was about milk in New Delhi, and said it can be up to something like 60% paint and other chemicals (if not that high, it was still pretty bad, I don't remember for sure).

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    Thumbs up Re: side effects from stopping milk?

    Quote Eileen Dover View Post
    Hi Jack

    I have problems with my digestive system too which have been diagnosed as IBS but my symptoms mirror the symptons of my workmates Crohn's Disease. I get the impression that IBS is the label attached to any digestive complaint the medical profession cant be bothered to investigate further!

    Previous to turning Vegan my symptoms were quite severe and causing me a lot pf problems-especially in the mornings ). The GP threw some medication at it but nothing made much difference.

    When I changed to a Vegan diet I had several glorious years where I was virtually symptom free and also lost two stone..I thought all my Christmases had come at once!

    Unfortunately over the last six months or so the symptoms are back, I really do not understand why but have put it down to stress which I know is tied in strongly with IBS?

    When I discussed it with the GP I was told that a Vegan diet is the worst of all diets for such conditions as it involves consumption of food that the body finds hard to break down. It all seemed to make no sense to me espeically as my conditon had actually been worse on an omin diet ???? !!!!

    I am now in a position where I dare not risk eating on a work day morning for fear of being camped out in the toilet and having to explain myself!!!

    I know all about that. As I stated, if I have to go out I cannot eat a thing as if I'm caught short, not very nice.....

    I was an ovo-lacto vegetarian for quite some time before turning vegan, and at first removing dairy from my diet was a Godsend! I thought that perhaps I was on the road to recovery, unfortunately it didn't last.
    Seems that if for some reason you get an intolerance to one thing it can lead to others. Now I seem to have problems with soy, gluten, dairy, tomatoes/potatoes, peanuts, rice milk, coconut milk and other things.
    It seems I discover "one" thing to remove from my diet then the next thing pops up. Quite disheartening as you can imagine.
    Personally I believe my condition was caused by the acne drug Roaccutane, which can lead to serious problems after only one prescription.
    I had it on three seperate occasions.

    The worse thing about bowel disorders is that it's a catch 22.
    Depression makes them worse. The illness makes you depressed.


    In regards to another couple of questions from others :

    Avacados - to be honest, I try to eat them, but can never quite time them correctly. They are either not ripe enough or have gone brown and icky long before I get to them. Although I do use the flesh on my skin from time to time to aid in being beautiful.

    Nuts/Seeds - I eat plenty of them in my diet (usually I'll chuck them into a vindaloo or something along those lines) or make my own nut butters.

    Bicarb Of Soda for washing hair. I'll try that one, cheers!
    (fingers crossed, this damn itching is driving me crazy!).
    To be honest, the itch scalp "could" be down to gluten intolerance - I'm waiting on an appointment at the hospital with a dietitian to check me out.


    Anyway, thanks for all your replies,
    and remember STAY VEGAN!

  17. #17

    Default Re: side effects from stopping milk?

    Quote VampireJack View Post
    Seems that if for some reason you get an intolerance to one thing it can lead to others. Now I seem to have problems with soy, gluten, dairy, tomatoes/potatoes, peanuts, rice milk, coconut milk and other things.
    It seems I discover "one" thing to remove from my diet then the next thing pops up. Quite disheartening as you can imagine.

    Exactly! Thought I had sorted my problems out with the Vegan diet only to discover eventually it becomes intolerant of that too!

    I am looking at your list and wondering if there is anything in your list of intolerances that I have added to my diet in the last six months and if they are common intolerances? ...

    I have eaten a lot more tomatotes of late as I have been advised to do so( for another issue related to my vision) but have been told that they are lethal for IBS sufferers. Gluten is another one that I have been told about which is renowed for causing bloating ?

    I need to investigate my diet further and start ticking and eliminating ingredients ...... I may be gone some time

  18. #18

    Default Re: side effects from stopping milk?

    Quote harpy View Post
    That sounds rotten, Eileen. Can you have a go at getting referred to a specialist, or have you already tried that?

    Sounds as if GP may not be that clued-up on the dietary aspect of it - what are the foods that vegans eat that other people don't? (I suppose you've seen the advice here http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Irritab...Treatment.aspx which suggests it might be good to adjust the ratio of soluble:insoluble fibre.)

    I remember reading that sometimes people get diagnosed as having IBS when they actually have an infection. (A friend thought this might have happened to her as she got it after a trip somewhere exotic and nothing she did seemed to help but then it just went away.) So that might be worth investigating if you're not sure why it has come back? Stress does have an impact on digestive processes as well in my experience but yours sounds a bit dramatic unless the stress level went up suddenly six months ago :/
    I dont think GPs are clued up at all about Veganism harpy, and really have no idea what we eat! I went to the consultant last week and she asked me twice 'so..you dont eat cheese did you say?'

    Thank you for your advice..I am due to have surgery on fibroids which are also causing problems and may be having an impact so I will wait and see how the removal of them affects me. If nothing changes then I will investigate further.

  19. #19
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: side effects from stopping milk?

    It wasn't really advice Eileen as I know 0 about it - just don't like to think of GP fobbing you off with the idea that it's in some way caused by veganism instead of getting it investigated properly, but I'm sure you won't let them!

    There definitely seems to be a link between hormone stuff and digestion, in some people anyway, so fingers crossed that getting the fibroids sorted will help this. My innards have definitely calmed down a bit now I'm of a certain age

  20. #20
    Pea-utiful... Peabrain's Avatar
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    Default Re: side effects from stopping milk?

    I've been having problems since stopping dairy too... I'm completely convinced thogh, that it's much the same as withdrawal from a medication... My hormones have gone bananas (acne; very sore, ahem, "lady bumps" as it were; and massive anger fits/crying spells for no reason before menstruation)... I've had problems on and off over the years even when I was a non-vegan (although funnily enough one of the main other times was when I gave up cheese although I still drank milk)... But as I was a SERIOUS cheese eater, I'm sure that my body used to depending on the hormones in dairy (which although it's now illegal to add them in the UK, many dairy cows are pregnant when milked), so now they're gone, I'm having big probs.

    I assume that over time it'll improve, but in the meanwhile, I'm trying evening primrose oil (has worked very well for me in the past), and reflexology (to get my systems back into proper "balance")...

    As for IBS, I've had a better time since being vegan rather than a worse one; don't know how connected it is to dairy for me personally, but definitely in my family we tend to be very allergic and get digestive issues, so we tend to be careful about high fibre (whilst still trying to have low GI for good blood sugar levels), so we have "half and half" bread (a bit of white and a bit of wholemeal together), and eat nuts and humus etc for fats, protein etc, but not too "rough"...

    The only thing I think I have to be careful about at the moment is eating too much fruit (I have a serious sweet tooth!), but usually a variation of fruit/veg, nuts, legumes, and rice/pasta seems to be satiating my hunger whilst not "loading" me up too much IYKWIM! :P

    ETA - As of April 1st I can report the Evening Primrose Oil has helped a LOT. So it's worth a try!
    Last edited by Peabrain; Mar 31st, 2013 at 02:56 PM.

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