I'm finding it really hard to exist knowing i'm surrounded by idiots

[glosoli]

It is easy to be ignorant. It is so impossibly hard to be a happy person when you're aware of all the sick mistreatment of animals going on constantly.
People who don't care how it gets to their plate, are everywhere. People who buy puppies from mills.
Abuse animals. Wear them.
Are fine with them being chained and milked until they die.
Having their young taken from them and killed or eaten.

Why is this world so fucking sick?
Please, just. Remind me how beautiful the world is.
I'm so miserable.

I'm so horrible to have ever taken part in this. To have consumed any of it in my lifetime.
I hate that I was a part of this for one minute. Eating them, taking their milk.

I hate that as a vegan, I have to explain myself. I hate that i'm the weird one.
They're the weird ones.

[Clueless Git]

Here, have one of these ...

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

[prudence]

Glosoli, I love you so much and everyone else on this site as fellow vegan's, brothers and sisters. I get so overwhelmed at the state of the world and wish I wasn't as conscious as I am, the suffering of animals is so hard to deal with and I feel for these sentient beings which are being mutilated and killed for the world's addiction to consumerism. The world is sick, but you are standing for truth, keep going strong on your vegan path!

[vegmonkey]

Hey, just think: the fact that you're surrounded by idiots is why it's important that you exist. You don't have to explain yourself. Just give the world the middle finger, figuratively that is, and be yourself. Personally, I cut all my hair off to assert that I'm of a different species than these women who care about how their hair looks more than they care if their way of life is based upon mass suffering. It felt pretty good. Do something like that, maybe you'll feel better?

EDIT: Oh, and read this! http://www.theatlantic.com/health/ar...-happy/266805/
Meaningful lives bring us more satisfaction than so-called "happy" lives... be strong, the animals are counting on you!

[Shadewood]

I know.. the world is a very messed up place. The atrocities we commit on a minutely basis for the sake of power, gluttony and vanity are disgusting. I just "try" not to think about it too much, as horrible as it sounds. If I do, I'll just sink in to a pit of cynicism and misanthropy, and that doesn't accomplish much.. There are, PLENTY of ways you can make a difference, and change this miserable rock for the better. Killing yourself would deny SO many future possibilities to change the world. For all you know, you may well be the ultimate beacon of change could start a social revolution. Perhaps that's being overly optimistic, but there is so much good you are doing the world, simply by existing.

You just might not realise it. Even the most insignificant thing, like say, cooking an amazing tasting curry for an omnivore friend or family member [you must have some, even if it's hard..] might make them realise that this curry tastes so orgasmic that they have no idea why they ever ate meat for so long. That one meal YOU cooked for that person may well lead the omnivore who, after eating curry reads about vegetarianism and health benefits, watches a slaughterhouse video, and vows to never eat meat again. And who knows, that person may well become vegan eventually. All because you existed. This is just a tiny example, but even that small example could potentially lead to a MASSIVE change in somebody's life, and save countless innocent animals in the process.

That to me, is a wonderful sentiment, and just thinking about it gives me one of many reasons to exist in this world.

[Peabrain]

Aah, the serenity prayer... Take it from me, that's a good one, it gets more effective the more you use it.

As you may have seen from some of my recent sharing, I also went through this very intensely, but what helped me come out of it, was;

a) Knowing that good people can do bad things (more on this later);
b) Your positive message, just as Shadewood said, of even being a vegan, let alone anything else you might do, is helping (I promise, it is helping even when you might think it isn't);
c) By stepping out of consuming products of the meat/animal lab testing industries, you're saving animals, and that is one very great thing, but in addition you are adding to the demand for NON animal derived products (this will show up and as money has a lot of power it is already working, the cruelty-free industry is growing by the hour);
d) Pampering yourself with cruelty free bubble baths and/or taking enjoyment out of eating delicious food without the guilt really helps. You are confirming in doing these things that YOU deserve to be happy, and proud (you could have still chosen not to become vegan/turn a blind eye, and in my estimation facing up to things like this is very brave). Allow the peaceful joy of knowing the good you're doing to show, that will make your choices even more attractive to the as yet, non-vegan world.
e) It sounds a bit callous at first, but as Shadewood also said; try not to think about it too much. You can't possibly help every being on this Earth, so concentrating (as the serenity prayer says) on things you can't change just wastes the energy you could use to help where you can. Do what you can; sign petitions, volunteer at an animal shelter (when babykins is older), whatever you can do, will make you feel more empowered...

Back to point a); at first being awakened to all the wickedness against the animal kingdom is bad enough, but when you realise that you were part of it, it becomes even harder, then harder still you realise people who you love are part of it too. The wicked acts themselves are one thing, and then the perceived wickedness of the people taking part is another thing enitrely... This can make the world seem a very scary/threatening place to be...

However, if you cast your mind back, you will remember your non-vegan self and although yes, you did things you wish you hadn't; you were not a bad or evil person. You did good things throughout your life... There are people who are bad through and through, but most people are like you; good underneath but they make choices that are deeply unethical, and they don't see the realities (either out of innocence and stupidity or fear and selfishness they are not "enlightened" yet)... If you can show them a positive message about how to change their lives for the better; good food, your good health (this'll take a bit of time to show as you need to learn about good nutrition and they need to see that you didn't keel over and die from plant-based food overload), a good attitude, a joyful and non-judgemental demeanour (this is HARD - I find myself judging people still, but I just remind myself of point 'a'), and of course information (usually better offered in small amounts) on why you have made this choice - they all help.

Aside from my (never leaving the tradition of being rather verbose) post so far, I'm sending you hugs and loving thoughts. x

[Andy_T]

Glosoli,

I agree 100% with everything you say!
Keeping your sanity is important, but it canbe a challenge now or then.

Best regards,
Andy

[Korn]

It is easy to be ignorant.

Does a reminder about non-vegans totally being capable of doing some really great stuff/non-vegans sometimes being irrational, rude or selfish help? Maybe not?

[tickled onion]

you have to try and forgive people their ignorance, it's what has been indoctrinated into them since they were able to soak up information, the best advert is happy, healthy, smiley vegans, it really sends out a message when you have shiny hair, and sparkly eyes and are full of life that your way of living is easy, healthy, wholesome and morally satisfying.

[harpy]

Poor old glosoli. As I'm sure you realise, a lot of people go through a stage of feeling like this when they go vegan - and the feeling may come back every so often later. Suppose, to look on the bright side, that feeling helps us stay vegan.

Venting in places like this makes it easier to be that shiny "positive role model" the rest of the time. (Not that I have ever been all that shiny personally )

Hope you're feeling a bit better now?

[Clueless Git]

you have to try and forgive people their ignorance, it's what has been indoctrinated into them since they were able to soak up information ..

Aye, we were them.

Those of us who were never them owe that purely to the luck of being born to vegan parents and nothing more.

[Clueless Git]

e) It sounds a bit callous at first, but as Shadewood also said; try not to think about it too much.

Not thinking about it too much sounds a bit callous at second and third to me.

Probably not thinking at all is better than thinking wrongly though.

My opinion (potted version) on thinking about it rightly:

People are the ultimate victims of meat. It prevents them from ever experiencing 'great compassion' and it perverts 'right view'. Without those things a human is no better (no worse either) than an animal. That is a tragic waste of the 'most fortunate incarnation', thechance to live a human life and experience ones human mind to it's full.

The human victim is the apex victim-turned-victimiser though. Everytime a human victim is 'fixed' his/her personal victim/victimiser vortex closes itself down and one more potential 'fixer' enters the chain.

Warrants a lot of thought, imho, but with how to employ human mind to change human mind(s) being the key.

[Peabrain]

you have to try and forgive people their ignorance, it's what has been indoctrinated into them since they were able to soak up information, the best advert is happy, healthy, smiley vegans, it really sends out a message when you have shiny hair, and sparkly eyes and are full of life that your way of living is easy, healthy, wholesome and morally satisfying.

Tickled has a wonderful way of saying what I wish I could without the very (very) large numbers of words. LOL...

- - - Updated - - -

Not thinking about it too much sounds a bit callous at second and third to me...

I didn't mean don't ever question, theorise, or discuss it, of course we need to think about it... But I'm talking about limiting how much, and the kind of thinking that causes one to suffer so much that it incapacitates them; prevents them from feeling an inner peace and joy; stops them from doing anything positive; through the damaging effects of pessimism, hate, grief or fear.

I can't remember what exactly was said but I remember AndyT giving a very helpful analogy about the mind protecting us from pain. Sometimes we need to be able to "switch" some stuff off (even if only temporarily) or "turn down the volume" so that we can concentrate on doing good, and feeling good.

[Peabrain]

Anyway, glosoli, I think I may have overlooked one thing you asked (you didn't specifically ask to be told how to feel better either so please take what you want and leave the rest if I've spouted too much stuff that isn't helpful)... You asked us to remind you of the beauty in the world...

Here's some humans helping out some bear cubs... http://youtu.be/9EAq4ffOaRE

...and a happy horse (Casper) playing at his animal sanctuary home...



...and here's some inspiration from one of the brainiest veggies of all time...



We all are here for you (and anyone else who goes through this)...

[tickled onion]

@peabrain,

Sometimes i can say things in much fewer words.... usually to those who are more fool than ignorant.

[Peabrain]

LOL... I bet you can! Any beginning with "f" perchance?

[glosoli]

Thank you all so much for letting me vent and sharing some wisdom with me. You have helped greatly! I'll try not to overwhelm myself in the future, but it is hard. If you're wondering what broke the straw on the camels back, I witnessed the first 20 minutes or so of "Earthlings". The images keep popping into my brain and it's hard to enjoy the simple pleasures when I know so many creatures out there do not get to gallop free and nurture their young. A dog being thrown into a garbage truck that crushes garbage? REALLY? Puppies being separated from their mothers, quivering and hungry-dying.....Pigs boiled alive.... KOSHER killing???? I didn't think it was possible but it seems WORSE.

@VegMonkey, in regards to shaving my head to separate myself from the sheeple. I have some dreadlocks going on these days. It's somewhat of warning that if you come too close, I have a soap box and I will stand on it and promote my cause.

@Peabrain, great photos! We have an Einstein poster in our living room that says "Imagination is more important than knowledge" in this case it sure comes in handy. Is Casper from the Woodstock Animal Sanctuary? If you're not aware of it, there are some t'-shirts you can buy (or you can donate to them) and all the proceeds go to supplying shelter and food for the little guys.

@Harpy, I do feel better thank you. It's good to know I have somewhere to vent. I'm pretty sure the majority of those on my facebook are probably going insane with all the posts I make. I vented there last night as well, and my rant was shared and I got some positive feedback which I really needed.

It's all about the animals. If I had the $ I'd have a huge animal sanctuary.

- - - Updated - - -

Thank you all so much for letting me vent and sharing some wisdom with me. You have helped greatly! I'll try not to overwhelm myself in the future, but it is hard. If you're wondering what broke the straw on the camels back, I witnessed the first 20 minutes or so of "Earthlings". The images keep popping into my brain and it's hard to enjoy the simple pleasures when I know so many creatures out there do not get to gallop free and nurture their young. A dog being thrown into a garbage truck that crushes garbage? REALLY? Puppies being separated from their mothers, quivering and hungry-dying.....Pigs boiled alive.... KOSHER killing???? I didn't think it was possible but it seems WORSE.

@VegMonkey, in regards to shaving my head to separate myself from the sheeple. I have some dreadlocks going on these days. It's somewhat of warning that if you come too close, I have a soap box and I will stand on it and promote my cause.

@Peabrain, great photos! We have an Einstein poster in our living room that says "Imagination is more important than knowledge" in this case it sure comes in handy. Is Casper from the Woodstock Animal Sanctuary? If you're not aware of it, there are some t'-shirts you can buy (or you can donate to them) and all the proceeds go to supplying shelter and food for the little guys.

@Harpy, I do feel better thank you. It's good to know I have somewhere to vent. I'm pretty sure the majority of those on my facebook are probably going insane with all the posts I make. I vented there last night as well, and my rant was shared and I got some positive feedback which I really needed.

It's all about the animals. If I had the $ I'd have a huge animal sanctuary.

[harpy]

Glad you're feeling better Re Earthlings, I can't handle those sorts of films so if I need to find something out I tend to read articles etc instead. I know some people think it's a cop-out not to watch but if it floors you I think it's better to avoid them.

[Peabrain]

Agreed harpy.

@glosoli - Casper's from here http://hillside.org.uk (warning possible pictures of upset here and there)... But Imma go look at Woodstock too.

PS. I LURRRVE your profile pic.

Sending rainbows, and sparkles, and flowers, and dewdrops to all who need a bit of niceness... xxx

[vb]

X

[harpy]

Sounds as if you got their attention anyway, Vicky! You never know, all that argufying may actually mean that they're thinking about what you said.

They shouldn't "drag" you into these conversations - if they pester you about being vegan it's borderline harassment I'd say. What happens if you just refuse to discuss it, or offer them a leaflet or something?

[tickled onion]

sometimes you have to smile sweetly and just let your healthy glow do the talking, a lot of us used to say the same things they did, and we all came through and got wise so it isn't all fruitless banter, some will learn and the rest will get bored of hounding you eventually

[vb]

X

[harpy]

This hasn't happened to me for a while but I sometimes say "ask me about it later" and then they usually don't unless they're really interested, as opposed to wanting to pick a quarrel. Then if you think it's combustible you can actually point them to a website or something, rather than repeating what you've already said for the 99999th time.

I saw one comment on Facebook about the horse thing (or similar) where one person said they wouldn't eat their pets but any other animal was OK. I.e. they would eat someone else's dog or horse but not their own. Not sure if anyone bothered to try and argue about that, I'm afraid I didn't

[vegmonkey]

Yeah, Earthlings was a huge bummer. I couldn't make it all the way through and I usually like movies like that (well, I liked food inc, fast food nation, forks over knives....stuff that was a little less intense, I guess). But it's good that movies like that exist.

Personally, I don't agree with the, "just stop thinking about it" idea. Awareness isn't the enemy. Everywhere I go, everything I do, I have mass suffering in the back of my mind... I'm casually browsing books at the library, and millions are living in pain... but don't let that be a source of depression. Let it empower you. By the grace of God or Allah or the Spaghetti Monster (whatever you want to call the force that brings all things, apples, animals, babies into somethingness from nothingness) YOU are one of the lucky ones. You are privileged, you are extremely lucky. That brings guilt, but we can't run from the guilt. We have to be responsible. It's our duty, it's the only way we can find meaning in life. So many people just want to live in ignorance, cut off from the real world and all the pain it holds... but that's just a dream, you are never that far from suffering. It's going on next door, down the street, the next state, the next country, under the sea... And it's tempting to think "what kind of sick God would create such a world?" but that's not constructive either. Point is, you are here, now. You have the burden of knowledge, and the responsibility to do something with it. Every moment is a chance to start a conversation, or to steer an existing conversation in the direction you want it to go. It's easy to sit and brood. It's harder to be ballsy and confident when so many people will respond negatively (just think to yourself, it's because of all the bad juju that's running through their veins, screwing with their delicate brain chemistry, turning them into closed-minded, unsympathetic sheep...when I look around at all the people around me making decisions that harm others, it's helpful to me to think "they are all puppets"... that makes it easier to not hate them, but to aim my anger and my passion for change at the corporations pulling the strings, the govt subsidies to cattle feed and high fructose corn syrup, the evil marketing practice of corporations to 'start em young'...)

Most important thing is, you're not alone. Even when you're physically alone, as in there's no other physical being in the same space as you, you aren't alone. There's lots of good people out there fighting the same fight. Most important thing is not to let the puppets get you down! Just be glad you figured out the joke, you aren't polluting your body with crap, you're working to lessen your cruelty-footprint. The world is like a huge, tangled knot. We might never get it all the way untied. But we can't be defeatists. We still have to pick at one knot at a time. That's the key to a fulfilling life.

[Peabrain]

Personally, I don't agree with the, "just stop thinking about it" idea.

Nobody actually said stop thinking about it (lol anyway that's virtually the surest way to be stuck thinking about nothing else), but just the extent in those ways you described...

But all that other stuff you said - fantastic! Empowerment and joy - even in a seemingly dark situation - is possible, and even vital.

[Shadewood]

Nobody actually said stop thinking about it (lol anyway that's virtually the surest way to be stuck thinking about nothing else), but just the extent in those ways you described...

But all that other stuff you said - fantastic! Empowerment and joy - even in a seemingly dark situation - is possible, and even vital.

Exactly. I wasn't condoning "not" thinking about at all, [because then you might as well not even be vegan] just don't spend every waking moment of your life thinking about all the bad things, because that will eventually consume you, make you very depressed and wreck your life, and your life will be filled with too much negative energy to be productive. Perhaps I'll be more specific next time.


Also, yes I watched Earthlings.. I got through about 90 minutes [I paused many times to catch my breath] before I had to turn it off due to nearly vomiting. To be honest, I think even the first 25 minutes of it would make a lot of omnis question their ethics.

[Peabrain]

Yes, and sadly, I know that situation too well. At one point in the first month or so after I learned what I learned and became vegan (I went from omnivore to vegan instantly), I was having thoughts of wanting to die (very seriously), it got that bad. Thankfully, I had some previous experiences (I won't go into them now but they were very hard) and I just made myself reevaluate - I had to make my choice (or was it a choice? Maybe a transformation) MEAN something, you know? Much like vegmonkey has shared, but so much more succinctly than I.

[Shadewood]

Yes, and sadly, I know that situation too well. At one point in the first month or so after I learned what I learned and became vegan (I went from omnivore to vegan instantly), I was having thoughts of wanting to die (very seriously), it gotthat bad. Thankfully, I had some previous experiences (I won't go into them now but they were very hard) and I just made myself reevaluate - I had to make my choice (or was it a choice? Maybe a transformation) MEAN something, you know? Much like vegmonkey has shared, but so much more succinctly than I.

I've been in a similar situation, although not as bad as yours. I'm just really sorry you had to go through that, and if I was there at the time I would've given you a massive hug [and probably nearly make you faint from lack of oxygen]. I just hope that you had people you could fall back on for support during those dark times, I can't imagine going through something like that alone. But yeah, what matters is you pulled through okay, and with the gift of life and foreknowledge, you can make these amazing positive changes to yourself, and others around you.

[herbert]

Just reading your posts with alot of tears. Why can't we all get together to give each other lots of hugs?!.....

[Peabrain]

[and probably nearly make you faint from lack of oxygen]

LOL... *gasp gasp*

Sadly, at the time, I was so concerned about not "tarring" the vegan movement's name (i.e. turning non-vegans off because they would associate my mental/emotional pain with veganism), I didn't tell anybody. I sort of hinted at it with one person, but didn't share the true extent of it...

I wanted to get my own feelings really clear so that I could share a good message about it... So instead I researched everything intently, trying to understand all the various different sides, so that I would understand what I needed to show, and almost to de-sensitise myself to the horrid anti-vegan stuff, and it worked. I feel such a strong inner belief now, in myself, in veganism, in how to be and how to share, that I can quite happily let things go, like water off a duck's back.

I knew I'd be okay eventually; I've been through far worse, and too many times (sadly I have been bereaved many times so know grief very well), and I always come out the other side, so I knew the feelings would pass... But during that phase it was excruciating.

That's the thing though, if you let pain into your life you also let joy in (as long as you allow the processing of that pain properly of course)... My mum used to quote Khalil Gibran... "The deeper sorrow scores into your being, the greater the capacity for joy"... That's been very true in my experience.

@Herbert - I like the sound of hugs for everyone! Hugs are good! Especially free ones...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr3x_RRJdd4

[Andy_T]

It makes me happy to see that there are a lot of new and very active people here on the forum, be they new to the forum or even new to the vegan lifestyle
(Actually, I hate that word. "Lifestyle", to me, sounds more like something that glossy tabloids would write about, not the way of life that you find out to be true and sustainable).

Best regards,
Andy

[herbert]

LOL... *gasp gasp*

Sadly, at the time, I was so concerned about not "tarring" the vegan movement's name (i.e. turning non-vegans off because they would associate my mental/emotional pain with veganism), I didn't tell anybody. I sort of hinted at it with one person, but didn't share the true extent of it...

I wanted to get my own feelings really clear so that I could share a good message about it... So instead I researched everything intently, trying to understand all the various different sides, so that I would understand what I needed to show, and almost to de-sensitise myself to the horrid anti-vegan stuff, and it worked. I feel such a strong inner belief now, in myself, in veganism, in how to be and how to share, that I can quite happily let things go, like water off a duck's back.

I knew I'd be okay eventually; I've been through far worse, and too many times (sadly I have been bereaved many times so know grief very well), and I always come out the other side, so I knew the feelings would pass... But during that phase it was excruciating.

That's the thing though, if you let pain into your life you also let joy in (as long as you allow the processing of that pain properly of course)... My mum used to quote Khalil Gibran... "The deeper sorrow scores into your being, the greater the capacity for joy"... That's been very true in my experience.

@Herbert - I like the sound of hugs for everyone! Hugs are good! Especially free ones...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr3x_RRJdd4

Oh, the power of hugs.... awesome!

[Clueless Git]

... but to aim my anger and my passion for change at the corporations pulling the strings ...

Just because I like your 'stuff' so much, vegmonkey ..

As a supplier of 'dubious' goods (I have a vending machine business and all people want to buy from vending machines is salty, sugary, fatty crap) I will share this with you:

Basicaly I am the supply end of a supply and demand chain. One which, quite frequently, comes under pressure from those who would like to see healthy/ier foods in my vending machines.

Waste of time. What I supply is driven by demand NOT demand driven by what I supply.

Same upshot every single time: Mucho enthusiasm over taking on the 'faceless' corporation(s). Half heartedness at best once it is realised that what actualy needs to be 'taken' on are the actual faces they see, work with, live with and sleep with even, every single day.

Change the customer and the supplier either changes with them or goes bust. It worketh not at all the other way round.

[Peabrain]

Actually, I hate that word. "Lifestyle", to me, sounds more like something that glossy tabloids would write about...

Yes, I say lifestyle often whilst simultaneously thinking "gosh I hope they know what I mean when I say lifestyle, life choice!"... LOL...

[tickled onion]

It makes me happy to see that there are a lot of new and very active people here on the forum, be they new to the forum or even new to the vegan lifestyle
(Actually, I hate that word. "Lifestyle", to me, sounds more like something that glossy tabloids would write about, not the way of life that you find out to be true and sustainable).

Best regards,
Andy

I use the word lifestyle to make the point vegan isn't a diet, but a whole way of living, a lifestyle in a much truer sense of the word than anything a tabloid tries flogging

[harpy]

"Lifestyle" actually started out as a perfectly respectable term in social sciences so we can use it with a clear conscience

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifestyle_(sociology)

It does seem to have been appropriated by magazines about one's house though. (Well not my house, obviously.)

[Peabrain]

Lifestyles of the ignoramus'... LMAO

[vegmonkey]

Change the customer and the supplier either changes with them or goes bust. It worketh not at all the other way round.

I think the real answer is somewhere in the middle. On one hand, if consumers demand healthier products, suppliers will have to oblige. On the other hand, a lot of suppliers are hard at work ensuring that consumers continue to demand unhealthy products, whether through marketing or by including addictive ingredients in their products--or, of course, by enlisting the help of the good ol' government-for-hire to plant in people's minds the idea that they "need" 3 glasses of milk a day, that they "need" excessive protein, etc.

Sure, it's the consumer's responsibility to be informed, but the people who are working tirelessly to keep consumers in the dark can't be absolved of blame, either.

[Peabrain]

I think the real answer is somewhere in the middle. On one hand, if consumers demand healthier products, suppliers will have to oblige. On the other hand, a lot of suppliers are hard at work ensuring that consumers continue to demand unhealthy products, whether through marketing or by including addictive ingredients in their products--or, of course, by enlisting the help of the good ol' government-for-hire to plant in people's minds the idea that they "need" 3 glasses of milk a day, that they "need" excessive protein, etc.

Sure, it's the consumer's responsibility to be informed, but the people who are working tirelessly to keep consumers in the dark can't be absolved of blame, either.

Yup.

[Clueless Git]

Sure, it's the consumer's responsibility to be informed ..

Then the consumer is to blame because, as we all know very well, that is a responsibility that meat consumers will go to the very ends of the Earth to avoid.

.. but the people who are working tirelessly to keep consumers in the dark can't be absolved of blame, either.

Indeed not, but it is only because the consumers want to be kept in the dark that their mushroom farming tactics work.

A demand for misinformation must be met by a supply of misinformation. That is simply how an open market supply and demand chain works.

In all fairness to the supply end of the chain the consumer has them well and truly cuffed and stuffed on that one. Fail to supply what the consumer demands and the supplier is removed from the chain as their consumers move to a supplier who will.

Having said all that; The reluctance to recognise that our own freinds, family and work mates are the problem that need to be addressed is fully understood.

[Peabrain]

I can see what you mean, I only found out about dairy when a logical thought lead to logical enquiry (I researched it off my own bat after musing one day on my own motherhood and comparing it to cows and their babies). If it weren't for that thought in the first place, and the willingness to find out the truth, I still may not have become vegan when I did... What a shame that would have been!

[Mary]

**hugs**

We've all had those moments, I imagine.
Hard to remember that less than 2 years ago I was just like THEM!

[VeganRake]

Just read this for the first time and don't quite have time at the minute to read all responses so please forgive me if I repeat what others have said.

For a start, we all make mistakes but there comes a time when we should realise they're mistakes and do something about them. I ate meat up until I was 16 in 1987 and then saw a picture of a slaughtered cow and stopped that very day. Then 3.5 years later I stopped eating fish....then in 1999 became vegan, realising that the dairy industry was the meat industry. Instead of feeling guilty about not having become vegan before, I felt elated and enlightened. Look forward, not backwards but try to live in the present. Everyone on earth has regrets but as long as we learn from them and try not to repeat them, we will feel better about ourselves. There's not a lot you can do about other people, except politely and respectfully discuss your veganism with them (if they ask or start to argue, like many do!). You'll find their arguments are an attempt to justify things to themselves, out of guilt. There is simply no valid argument against veganism - all we're doing is opting out of the sick side of life. I think what upsets me more than anything is the fact that as humans, we're conditioned to accept the meat and dairy industries as 'normal' and so acceptable. I always suggest to people that they consider milk - something mammals get from their mother in the first few months of life. That's normal and natural. How on earth can it be natural to continue through life to drink milk - and not even mother's milk but other species' milk. People often agree before heading off to make a cup of tea(!). I just feel privileged that I'm enlightened and committed enough to act on my principles and be vegan. We can't control what others think and do and neither should we. The world will always be full of nasty, vile people but let's focus on the millions of lovely people, many of whom aren't vegan (although I wish they would be!). In short, don't focus on the crap in life as you'll never eradicate it. Be a good person and be proud.

[Peabrain]

Wonderfully said Vegan Rake, especially about looking forwards rather than at our past.

[VeganRake]

Thanks very much, Peabrain. Love the avatar by the way!
VR

[LeafyLux]

I've been feeling so lost these days. Including- riding the train and seeing all of the trash strewn about the marshlands knowing how it's poisoning the land and how the animals are drinking that water and walking through it. I feel like standing up from my seat and screaming at the whole car, "How can you continue your gaze out this window with a smile on your face??" As well as when I'm following friends around at the mall and we pass the food court, I wanna throw everyone's plate on the ground. I know it's extreme, and only in a dreamland without consequences would I ever do something so irrational. But it's so hard to rationalize or make any sound logic of this world. I feel trapped. I want a magical vegan wand! I wanna wave it around and make everything better. How can people be this way? Even my beloved- I don't know how much more of the Onmiverse I can take!

[harpy]

Poor LeafyLux, think we all have times like that but please try not to feel too despondent - just because you can't change everything at once it doesn't mean you can't change things.

Obviously you're already helping by being vegan. Maybe it would help with the lost feeing if you could find another thing you can do to make a change - support a vegan campaigning organisation, write some letters, cook some vegan food for friends, help clear up some of the trash...? (Just examples, obviously I don't know what you're already doing or have time for.)

[Peabrain]

Hugs LeafyLux...

I second what Harpy said. All of us feel like this at times. I've been up and down myself lately... It's hard not to feel despondent, but the initial feeling is not in your control; the subsequent feelings and/or actions are though, and that's when you can choose to harness your pain and turn it into good.

In the meantime, have some more hugs. xxx

[MisterMonkey]

when I'm following friends around at the mall and we pass the food court, I wanna throw everyone's plate on the ground. I know it's extreme, and only in a dreamland without consequences would I ever do something so irrational.

Well, that's just it... I don't think that's extreme at all. I think the desire to smash everyone's plates in the food court is an entirely appropriate emotional response to the mass indifference that you can see in front of you. The important thing is to not act on it. We all fantasise about saying and doing things that we know we can't, sometimes because there are laws against them.

You are allowed your fantasies, so go for it, indulge yourself.