In need of a little support.

[DancingVegan]

Hi all,

I've been lurking for a while, but I thought I'd post something, especially since I am feeling a bit down.

Due to personal circumstances, I had to move back in with my parents for a little while (luckily, I'm moving out in eight weeks). I went vegan back in November, and it's been tough dealing with my dad on the issue. He is an avid meat eater and takes every opportunity he gets to criticize my veganism and put it down. My parents do very little cooking- if it doesn't come out of a box or a can and can't be microwaved or prepared in under 10 minutes, they don't bother. I grew up on processed foods and the only veggies we ever ate were canned peas coated in so much melted butter that you couldn't even taste the peas anymore.

I buy all my own groceries since they have no interest in going vegan/vegetarian or even eating better foods. I've offered to buy all groceries and cook for them (since they are letting me live rent-free). They liked the idea, and my mom was even very enthusiastic about eating healthier and trying new things. I spent hours on the internet one day and found dozens of recipes that were similar to things they liked to eat; no exotic ingredients, no substitutions, mostly just veggies, grains, and seasonings. I handed them the pile and told them to pick out whatever they wanted and I'd buy everything and do all the cooking. My mom picked out several, but my dad looked through them and responded "there's only one that looks remotely good, but you should add meat to it." I only cooked two meals (and they were delicious meals- spinach enchiladas and veggie pot pies) before my dad had enough of "this depriving way of life with no real food- meat!" After that, they went back to "cooking" for themselves and I cook for myself.

At a holiday gathering, he and a buddy of his loudly criticized veganism, stating that it's a guarantee to be malnourished and that it's a "crazy lifestyle" that only "dumb, tree-hugging hippies who smoke too much crack" would do. (I don't mind being called a tree-hugger or a hippie, but it was clearly meant as an insult in this case.)

Here's the ironic thing- since going vegan, my health has improved tenfold. I've lost a lot of weight, I have more energy, I sleep better, I think clearer, my skin is fresher, and all sorts of things. I feel great and look better than I have in years. My dad, on the other had, has been packing on the pounds, has had to see several doctors for a variety of issues, and even lost not one but TWO friends to heart disease in the last six months. He's been eating a lot more animal products and always seems to make sure to eat in front of me and be over dramatic about how much he's enjoying his food. I've never tried to force my parents into eating or not eating anything- I even told them that if they saw a veggie recipe they really liked but didn't want it vegan, I'd make a non-vegan version for them (hoping to open them up to the idea of eating more plant-based foods and then hoping they would be inspired to transition into full plant-based diet).

Usually, I try not to let it get to me, and I've retorted all my dad's arguments to no avail. He refuses to listen to the pros of veganism, so I've stopped trying to retort altogether (it does nothing but frustrate me). The problem is, though, is that he sees my silence as an admission of being wrong, even going so far as to tell a relative that I know I'm wrong about veganism but am too stubborn to admit it.

How do you deal with someone like this when you have no choice but to live with them (even if it is only temporary)?

[Andy_T]

Dancingvegan, I absolutely feel with you.
All I can say is that you should enjoy the fact that you are feeling better and living a clean life now.

Regarding your father - well, it's the old adage that you can select your friends, but that you have your family.
I can only say ... ignore him where you can.

I would not bother too much that he takes your silence as submission or acceptance.
On the other hand, unfortunately you are a guest at their household, so you can not simply explain that you do not reply because it makes no sense ... that would most likely be considered rude.

Best regards,
Andy

[harpy]

Yes, I agree there's no point in arguing because he's obviously made up his mind he's not going to agree. Maybe he's in denial about the health aspect, which would be understandable in the circs. Even so, I suspect if you keep cooking nice food and eating it without comment he might eventually come around to the idea of trying it. If he has a go at you I would just make a joke of it or smile or whatever would defuse the situation best. You're in the right so you can afford to be magnanimous

The other thing to bear in mind is that ill-informed people often think you're going to get sick if you don't eat a "normal" diet so he may be genuinely worried about your health (ironically enough). That will probably go away once you've been at it for a while and he can see you're still OK.

[DancingVegan]

Thank you, both of you. It helps knowing I'm not alone in veganism, especially since it's something that's so important to me.

Thankfully, I'll be moving out in a month or so, which helps- then I won't have to deal with criticisms on a regular basis.

The good news is that my mom is starting to take interest in the food I'm making again. She's sampled a few things and loved them, so maybe if I influence her, she'll influence my dad. With his health problems, I'd love to see him make changes, but unfortunately he's just not at a point where he's ready to do that.

My health has been far from perfect, so I can understand that he would definitely be concerned about me, but he's seeing the positive benefits unfold before his eyes, so hopefully he'll come to see that the changes I've made are definitely for the better.

[Blueberries]

Hi DancingVegan, I hope you're doing okay. I understand how frustrating you situation must be.

When I first went vegan I was living at home with my parents, who often made very insensitive comments about my veganism and my food, which really hurt me. They have gotten better but if they make any comments about my food I just remind them that they told me as a child that it was rude to comment on other people's food- that usually puts an end to it!

Sometimes it really upsets me to think of how rude parents can be to their own children .

[Blueberries]

.

[Cacique]

In other regards, do you have a decent relationship with your dad? Or did you before going vegan? I was thinking perhaps you could talk him into doing something active with you, playing some sport or work out, something that'll get him active and running. Maybe play tennis? I would play it off as if you just want to do stuff with him.

I'm sure if he were to do something like this; tennis, basketball, (American) football or just any sport. I can't see him keeping up the crap if he can see you running around like a gazelle while he's heaving and panting.

The only other thing that I can think of (besides making similar comments about his diet) would be to just have a conversation with him and tell him how he's making you feel, and that even though you don't agree with his lifestyle and see how he's killing himself, that you don't talk crap about him/his diet.

Good luck and hope everything gets better soon.

[Little Plum]

Hi DancingVegan,

I just joined this forum today and your post was the first thing to catch my eye. I sympathise with you. I became vegan in January this year after 20 years of ping ponging between vegetarianism and pescatarianism, and my parents are scathing of it/me, too. I can't think of anything to add to the great replies you've already received but wanted to offer you my support.

Good luck

[friend]

Hi all,

I've been lurking for a while, but I thought I'd post something, especially since I am feeling a bit down.

Due to personal circumstances, I had to move back in with my parents for a little while (luckily, I'm moving out in eight weeks). I went vegan back in November, and it's been tough dealing with my dad on the issue. He is an avid meat eater and takes every opportunity he gets to criticize my veganism and put it down. My parents do very little cooking- if it doesn't come out of a box or a can and can't be microwaved or prepared in under 10 minutes, they don't bother. I grew up on processed foods and the only veggies we ever ate were canned peas coated in so much melted butter that you couldn't even taste the peas anymore.

I buy all my own groceries since they have no interest in going vegan/vegetarian or even eating better foods. I've offered to buy all groceries and cook for them (since they are letting me live rent-free). They liked the idea, and my mom was even very enthusiastic about eating healthier and trying new things. I spent hours on the internet one day and found dozens of recipes that were similar to things they liked to eat; no exotic ingredients, no substitutions, mostly just veggies, grains, and seasonings. I handed them the pile and told them to pick out whatever they wanted and I'd buy everything and do all the cooking. My mom picked out several, but my dad looked through them and responded "there's only one that looks remotely good, but you should add meat to it." I only cooked two meals (and they were delicious meals- spinach enchiladas and veggie pot pies) before my dad had enough of "this depriving way of life with no real food- meat!" After that, they went back to "cooking" for themselves and I cook for myself.

At a holiday gathering, he and a buddy of his loudly criticized veganism, stating that it's a guarantee to be malnourished and that it's a "crazy lifestyle" that only "dumb, tree-hugging hippies who smoke too much crack" would do. (I don't mind being called a tree-hugger or a hippie, but it was clearly meant as an insult in this case.)

Here's the ironic thing- since going vegan, my health has improved tenfold. I've lost a lot of weight, I have more energy, I sleep better, I think clearer, my skin is fresher, and all sorts of things. I feel great and look better than I have in years. My dad, on the other had, has been packing on the pounds, has had to see several doctors for a variety of issues, and even lost not one but TWO friends to heart disease in the last six months. He's been eating a lot more animal products and always seems to make sure to eat in front of me and be over dramatic about how much he's enjoying his food. I've never tried to force my parents into eating or not eating anything- I even told them that if they saw a veggie recipe they really liked but didn't want it vegan, I'd make a non-vegan version for them (hoping to open them up to the idea of eating more plant-based foods and then hoping they would be inspired to transition into full plant-based diet).

Usually, I try not to let it get to me, and I've retorted all my dad's arguments to no avail. He refuses to listen to the pros of veganism, so I've stopped trying to retort altogether (it does nothing but frustrate me). The problem is, though, is that he sees my silence as an admission of being wrong, even going so far as to tell a relative that I know I'm wrong about veganism but am too stubborn to admit it.

How do you deal with someone like this when you have no choice but to live with them (even if it is only temporary)?

Just leave, and I hope your father feels , later, that absence makes the heart grow fonder. His loss, not yours.

[veganpixxie]

hi little plum! Im in lymington! Whoop!!!

[Little Plum]

Hey veganpixxie! Yay! Great to meet you! x

[Astrid660]

I would say, either convince them to watch a good plant based diet documentary like forks over knives to help understand your views... Or else just stay positive and know that eventually they might come around and change their minds. I have found that by talking positively about being a vegan, my mom has eventually decided she wants to eat more like me! Sadly my dad is a die hard meat eater and his weight/health are suffering because of it. But, because I convinced my mom, he's had no choice but to eat a few meat free meals. Even if you think they are scorning you, the proof is in the pudding. you look and feel better. Eventually they will (hopefully) realize this and look up to you for guidance on improving their own health and well being. until then, stay strong!

[vegmonkey]

Don't try to change your parents. It's hard to watch people we love make decisions we know are bad for them, but you need to recognize that you are powerless here. Lead by example. Focus on what you DO have control over--what YOU eat--and don't worry about getting others to see things the way you do. If your happiness is dependent on convincing other people you're right, you'll never be happy, there will always be someone who disagrees with you and belittles you.

Look, health isn't just a physical thing. A healthy person doesn't need to tear others down to feel good about him or herself. Just be thankful your brain isn't so clogged with diseased animal flesh that you've taken to making fun of your daughter's efforts to be a healthier, kinder citizen of the planet.

The great thing about being right is that you can fall asleep at night at peace with reality. Your dad's failing health is surely something he knows he should be doing more to address, and he must feel, however deep down, at least somewhat guilty about his failure to do so thus far. His attitude REEKS of jealousy. You're making the positive changes he knows he ought to be making, but he's having will-power issues. Of course he's going to try and tear you down.

My parents treat me the same way, to a lesser degree. They aren't outright rude but will share snide chuckles with others if I make a comment about veganism, organics, it's always a wink to some other adult who's around as if to say, "oh, that vegmonkey and her silly belief that what you eat matters!" I don't live with them, so I don't have to watch them make bad decisions anymore, but I've given up trying to get them to change. My friendly emails of articles about health usually just got dismissive responses. I'm so confident in my diet, though, that I don't care if other people don't agree with me anymore. When you stumble on something great, your instinct is to share it, but sometimes people just need to be allowed to make the discovery on their own. I see how it could be really draining to sit across the dinner table from someone who is making a scene of enjoying his ribs or wings or whatever, but really, that behavior speaks for itself. Don't take the bait, just keep living your life and bettering yourself and laugh off reactions like his. Haters gonna hate, it's that simple.

[Asphixa]

Hi DancingVegan,

Honestly, the only advice I feel I can give is to grow indifferent to the attempts at causing a reaction. At the end of the day there are just people who will disagree with you based on principle, based on their beliefs or based on the fact that they grew up a certain way and are not open to adaption or change in any faculty. It's not just your parents that are in this situation, there are a huge number of people who live the same way. It's more of a comfort bubble than anything else.

If you want to prove a point, do it in a positive, constructive manner and don't get drawn into petty arguments that are counter-productive in general, especially when there is no room for healthy debate on either side. If your father believes that you must eat meat to live a healthy life, let him believe so. But that doesn't stop you from becoming fit, on a plant based diet and living as optimally as possible to prove differently, does it?

And if you do ever want to show your father any evidence, at least one he may believe over something he has to take time out to consider, such as evidence that a plant based diet can be just as efficient as a omnivorous diet without the drawbacks, find a few pictures of Ed Bauer, vegan athlete and bodybuilder, Mac Danzig vegan MMA athlete, Mike Mahlervegan athlete and fitness instructor or Patrik Baboumian vegan power lifter, print them and next time him and his friend are debating loudly that only crack addicted tree hugging hippies are vegans and that they're malnourished, perhaps he might like to compare health notes with any of the above?

Good luck!

[Spud Addict]

So sorry you're having such a rough time with your parents, DV.

Would it maybe help things with your Dad if you were to sit him down and tell him you love him and that you worry about his health; you know he doesn't think much of your diet but you've felt so much healthier since adopting it, regardless of the reasons. If he likes sport or anything like that, maybe point out X sports star or Y athlete that thrive on a vegan diet for health reasons?

I think what Astrid said made a really good point... her Mum found the new meals great and so her Dad was forced to eat healthier for a few meals a week. If your Mum is enjoying your food, that's a great start!

[Tabbycat]

Parents can be difficult to deal with. My mom is very supportive while my dad doesn't understand at all. I think some men can be very stubborn about diet. Especially in the US where eating meat and potatoes is some kind of masculinity thing.

That said, it took my mom years to convince my dad to cut sugar out of his diet (although they are sadly using artificial sweeteners) and to cut out the majority of the snack foods he was eating. The result is he's lost some weight and feels better. She's also been trying for years to get him to quit smoking and to give up fried foods. But he's stubborn and hasn't budged on smoking. I think she might be winning the war on fried foods, though.

Whenever my dad says anything about my not eating meat, I just tell him that it means there's more for him to eat. And he seems pretty happy with that answer. If your dad is like mine, he doesn't want to hear about your reasons for going vegan. I stick to my guns and smile and nod and say "I'll think about it" and leave it at that.