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Thread: Healthy Diet Questions and Rant

  1. #1
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    Question Healthy Diet Questions and Rant

    Ok hello all

    why are there some meny pieces of contradictory evidence saying you can or cant get all protiens and vits etc req from a plant based diet (so basicaly you need to eat meat for some protiens) and so the argument swings both ways too with meat being so unhealthy for you

    and from other stuff ive read and learnt like how cows milk is harmful to you and so is soy milk esp certain brands fill it is bad sugars

    and ive also read about the health of soil directly relates to the health of the humans eating the fruit and veg from the soil,
    so poor soil qulity relates to poor nutrion and so missing or lacking in certain essetial vits and minerals from eating crops from poor soil,
    so with that in mind have we as humans forced our selves in to eating meat to obtain certain essential fatty acids and vits and minerals as animals can digest and use nutrition from things like grass and corn where as humans can not so by humans eating flesh of another creature means we are stealing nutrion from them as they can source it diffrently to us ?


    basicaly i want to be a Vegan i understand its going to be a long and hard road to get started but i will get there,
    but from what i can see because of ourselves and our self destuctive nature we no longer have a
    safe and healthy diet we can eat in almost any form?


    thank you letting me vent and rant and please reply with any oppinions
    either for against i dont mind,

    and most of all please tell me how to be a healthy vegan

    kind regards
    skasha

  2. #2
    Tabbycat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Healthy Diet Questions and Rant

    I think a lot of vegans drink Almond milk (which I'm allergic to) or rice milk (which I don't like) instead of soy milk. I personally like Silk even though it does have added sugar. I figure even with the added sugar it's a heck of lot better for me than drinking cows milk which is pumped full of hormones and heaven only knows what else.

    Well, if it is true about the soil quality affecting the nutrients you get from the plants you eat, it's not going to do you any good to try to get it from eating meat. What do you think they feed cows? Did you know 80% of the US's grain production goes to feed livestock?

    I've been Vegan for a couple weeks now. It's not hard at all really. Just grab a few cookbooks. Watch some videos on youtube if you aren't sure how to prepare something. And take a good vegan multi-vitamin.

    I'd also recommend you watch the documentary Forks Over Knives.

  3. #3

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    Default Re: Healthy Diet Questions and Rant

    In all honesty, I couldn't give a toss about health when it comes to veganism. My health isn't more important than animal welfare. Even if it's true and eating meat is more healthy, doesn't mean we have a right to kill animals because we believe their health is less imporant to ours.

    Even though I haven't made much effort with nutrition, I'm more healthy than when i was vegetarian when my calcium and b12 levels were low. I am perfectly healthy now. When I started to get ill thinking it was my vegan diet, I still didn't think of going back.

    I don't particularly like having to explain veganism in health terms, because that is kind of besides the point for me. Sure, it's had health benefits for me, but the main reason is animals.

    There are a lot of good vegan recipe sites, youtube videos, books. I think it took me a while to figure out what I liked, how to cook with seitan, making dairy alternatives. My diet is a lot more fun and varied since I began, when i had no idea what to eat. Just need to do a lot of research. Also, I found looking at vegan blogs to see their shopping lists helpful.
    Last edited by misosoup; Mar 10th, 2013 at 09:34 PM.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Healthy Diet Questions and Rant

    I am pro vegan and my posts dont seem to be posting!!!!!!
    Grrrrr

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    Quote Skasha View Post
    why are there some meny pieces of contradictory evidence saying you can or cant get all protiens and vits etc req from a plant based diet (so basicaly you need to eat meat for some protiens)
    Hi Skaska, human beings can synthesise some of our own amino acids, and then the rest we have to get from food. These are called essential amino acids and all of them are available from plants. So we don't need meat for protein. Some people might have trouble synthesising an amino acid for whatver reason but even then there are amino acid supplements that are of non-animal origin.
    Houmous atá ann!

  6. #6

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    Default Re: Healthy Diet Questions and Rant

    Hi Skasha,

    please understand that new members to the forum (especially those that are not vegan) are - for a time, as I understand - put on moderation.
    So your posts will only be visible once the moderator approves them.

    Please be patient with that, there were some occurrences of "trolling" in the past, and the maxim of the forum is to keep it a "friendly" place for vegans to interact without being trolled and bashed. Normally it is not an issue as the moderator approves of the posts quickly.

    Regarding healthy eating / veganism - I am not an expert, so I would like to suggest that you look up the words of some
    Some good books I would suggest are Dr. Joel Fuhrman's "Eat to live" (NOT vegan, but he suggests eating mostly plant-based food for health reasons) and Dr. Colin T- Campbell's "The China Study".

    Also, the ADA (American Dietitians Association) has a position paper on vegan and vegetarian diets, check it out here: http://www.eatright.org/about/content.aspx?id=8357
    Finally, a word of advice - although there are very many who like to eat animal products and use all kinds of arguments to endorse it, there is really no medical evidence that animal products are needed at all to lead a healthy lifestyle. Quite the contrary, by eating only plant-based food (while maintaining a varied diet) it is normally possible to avoid many of typical "Western" diseases of affluence like cardiovascular diseases, diabetes, obesity and even cancer.

    Best regards,
    Andy

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote misosoup View Post
    In all honesty, I couldn't give a toss about health when it comes to veganism. My health isn't more important than animal welfare.
    Misosoup, I absolutely understand how you feel.
    As a matter of fact, I also used to say "I did not go vegan for my own health, but for that of the animals".

    However, be aware that your statement might be construed as meaning "This nutty person will go to every end to protect some animals, even if her own health is affected". So far, so good. However, the next idea that some people have is that vegans will even put their children's health below the beliefs that animals should not be harmed. Like, e.g., the public view of Jehovah's witnesses happily letting their ill children die befor accepting treatment in a hospital. And that (like the other) is simply not true. It is absolutely possible to be a healthy and sane vegan, and to have healthy and sane vegan children (many forum members here are proof). So be aware that your statement could be seen to validate the belief (held by some) that vegans are a bunch of nutty extremists, which we are not.

    Best regards,
    Andy

  7. #7
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Healthy Diet Questions and Rant

    Quote Andy_T View Post
    Hi Skasha,

    please understand that new members to the forum (especially those that are not vegan) are - for a time, as I understand - put on moderation.
    What Andy says is correct - it's forum for vegans. If we should let people who are on a fast or slow transition towards being vegans post here, many of these threads would have been dominated by people who aren't vegans, including some who don't know exactly what vegan means. Some of them would start to ask questions like "but what's wrong with eating fish - or organic meat?" etc.

    The idea behind letting not-yet-vegans have an account here is that this way, they can subscribe to threads and ask questions. Whenever they use the Contact US link at the bottom of the page to send a message saying that they are vegans, they'll get a new account type.

    Also - i has been years ago since any question form a not-yet-vegan member has come up which hasn't already been answered. So the area for newbie and nob-vegan questions have been closed.

    and i know it is simple and so easy to be a vegan
    but its no good eating a lettace and a cucmber a day and expect to recive all my nurtion req
    This question, from one of your non-approved posts have been addressed in many threads already. No vegans eat a lettuce a day and a cucumber a day, Skasha.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

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    Default Re: Healthy Diet Questions and Rant

    Quote Korn View Post
    No vegans eat a lettuce a day and a cucumber a day, Skasha.
    Well, I sometimes do. Among other things, of course

    Best regards,
    Andy

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Healthy Diet Questions and Rant

    Hi Skasha - I wouldn't worry too much about the health aspect of being a vegan. Lots of us have been at it for ages and done OK. I have been vegan myself for almost 20 years, and some forum members have for much longer I believe. I once met a lady in her 90s who had been vegan for over 50 years, as well as her son who was a lifetime vegan.

    You could always try it and see how you feel. I think the best bet when you start is to make sure you eat a wide variety of unprocessed foods and make sure your vitamin B12 and D bases are covered.

    As well as what's already been suggested you might want to look on the Vegan Society website. They have quite a bit of nutritional guidance (including about the protein thing which I think you'll find isn't really an issue), and also a mentoring scheme for new vegans if you think that might be helpful.
    Last edited by harpy; Mar 11th, 2013 at 11:18 AM.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Healthy Diet Questions and Rant

    Quote misosoup View Post
    In all honesty, I couldn't give a toss about health when it comes to veganism. My health isn't more important than animal welfare. Even if it's true and eating meat is more healthy, doesn't mean we have a right to kill animals because we believe their health is less imporant to ours.
    Whilst you may see it that way, your health should be a concern, you are the voice of the animals, and if you are a sickly vegan who doesnt eat well and have a balanced diet you will fuel that argument that humans are always ill when meat is removed from the diet, a healthy vegan does much more for the cause than the sickly, pale vegans people usually associate with our diet.

    Quote Korn View Post
    No vegans eat a lettuce a day and a cucumber a day, Skasha.
    i purposely eat a romaine lettuce everyday with dinner, sometimes I'll eat 2 sorts of lettuce, it's full of good stuff
    "when the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace" Jimi Hendrix

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    Default Re: Healthy Diet Questions and Rant

    Quote tickled onion View Post
    Whilst you may see it that way, your health should be a concern, you are the voice of the animals, and if you are a sickly vegan who doesnt eat well and have a balanced diet you will fuel that argument that humans are always ill when meat is removed from the diet, a healthy vegan does much more for the cause than the sickly, pale vegans people usually associate with our diet.



    i purposely eat a romaine lettuce everyday with dinner, sometimes I'll eat 2 sorts of lettuce, it's full of good stuff
    I'm very bad about not eating as much lettuce as I should. Sometimes I go days without eating it. Shocking, I know.

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    Default Re: Healthy Diet Questions and Rant

    Lol yeah, fair enough. Let me rephrase what I meant.
    When I was turning vegan the only thing on my mind was animal welfare. Obviously I did a lot of reading on nutrition and how to get my vitamins. But my health was still second priority compared to the suffering of animals. Dunno if that sounds less extreme than what I originally (was having a bad day when I wrote is so sounded more snappy than I intended).
    It's just that I don't like having to prove or show that I am making more of an effort to eat healthily, because of the hassle I've had from friends and family about how unhealthy veganism is. People cannot get their head around that I get my b12 from nutritional yeast, when all I could be doing is eating an egg or steak.
    I've had a lot of health problems lately that people were dying to pin on veganism so I've got quite fed up of having to defend my diet and my beliefs. So this is quite a sore topic for me. Also, my family won't admit to their friends that I am vegan for animal reasons, only for health reasons.

    I am actually healthier than when I was vegan. When I was veggie my calcium and b12 was low, now all my vitamin levels are fine. I look much healthier and have taken more of an interest in nutrition, and looking for ways to heal myself using natural methods. So I am way more responsible for myself than when I was just veggie.

    I think as well, people tend to assume that a vegan diet is healthy i.e boring. And I've had to defend that as well, that I actually have a more varied diet and tried more foods since turning vegan, and I've enjoyed it. Even the process of hunting for vegan cheese was kind of fun.
    Last edited by misosoup; Mar 11th, 2013 at 07:59 PM.

  13. #13
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Healthy Diet Questions and Rant

    Quote tickled onion View Post

    i purposely eat a romaine lettuce everyday with dinner, sometimes I'll eat 2 sorts of lettuce, it's full of good stuff
    Most people should probably eat more lettuce and other leafy green stuff, I was thinking of the idea of only eating lettuce and cucumbers every day... That would have been way too boring for me.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  14. #14
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    Quote Korn View Post
    Most people should probably eat more lettuce and other leafy green stuff, I was thinking of the idea of only eating lettuce and cucumbers every day... That would have been way too boring for me.
    liberally doused in pesto, i could eat that everyday if it wasnt for the fat content! Is usually a different fruity dressing everyday, never gets boring
    "when the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace" Jimi Hendrix

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    Quote tickled onion View Post
    liberally doused in pesto...
    You had me at pesto
    Houmous atá ann!

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Healthy Diet Questions and Rant

    Just went in to see my doctor for my wellness visit. He said the Vegan diet is the healthiest diet you can follow. I'm so happy my doctor I've been seeing for years is supportive of my new lifestyle.

    Also went ahead and asked for a food allergy blood test to see if I'm really allergic to all the things I've been told to avoid since childhood. I should find out in about a week.

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    Default Re: Healthy Diet Questions and Rant

    Yay, tabbycat. That's great he's supportive and is cool with veganism.

    A lot of people change to a vegan diet for health reasons. Did you know Mike Tyson is vegan?? Also it's recommended for a lot of joint conditions.

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    Default Re: Healthy Diet Questions and Rant

    Quote Skasha View Post
    Ok hello all

    why are there some meny pieces of contradictory evidence saying you can or cant get all protiens and vits etc req from a plant based diet (so basicaly you need to eat meat for some protiens) and so the argument swings both ways too with meat being so unhealthy for you
    Regarding the contrary information in terms of vitamins, minerals and proteins required for a healthy diet, it's from a lot of sources but generally most reviews done on these things are funded for and done by doctors mostly in the pay of meat/dairy producers. That's not to say that there are not vegan papers that are not biased either, but comparatively you're looking at something similar to the tobacco companies in the early 90s (google Jeffery Wigand).

    It is almost entirely false regarding to the claims that any vegan/vegetarian that is informed and knowledgeable enough will have a deficit of any major vitamin, mineral or macro nutrient.

    and from other stuff ive read and learnt like how cows milk is harmful to you and so is soy milk esp certain brands fill it is bad sugars
    This is good, I assume by this you mean correlation between milk intake and osteoporosis, change of pH levels in the body, milk containing various anti-biotic substances that lower resistance and so on so on. Regarding soy/any non-dairy milk, it is quite possible to make your own nut milks that you are aware of exactly what goes into it, perhaps look into that.


    and ive also read about the health of soil directly relates to the health of the humans eating the fruit and veg from the soil,
    so poor soil qulity relates to poor nutrion and so missing or lacking in certain essetial vits and minerals from eating crops from poor soil,
    so with that in mind have we as humans forced our selves in to eating meat to obtain certain essential fatty acids and vits and minerals as animals can digest and use nutrition from things like grass and corn where as humans can not so by humans eating flesh of another creature means we are stealing nutrion from them as they can source it diffrently to us ?
    Someone answered the nutritional part, however just a bit about the other effects it has if you're interested. The entire process that gets the meat onto someones plate, aside from nutrition is also part of the problem that causes monoculture and destruction of crop land. Considering the second largest anthropocentric carbon emissions comes from the agricultural sector, which is around 13% of all human emissions (not including transportation percentages which, I believe totals at something around 18% combined). That out of 12 billion bushel of maize in USA (96 million gallons) 5,250 million bu. (42,000 million ga.) is animal feed, the total human consumption of maize in all it's forms is 327 million bu. (2616 million ga.). And that's just one crop and only in the USA. On top of this little example you have things such as:

    1. Degredation of land due to high demand. As you pointed out above, factory farming is one of the leading causes of this.
    2. Deforestation for more areas to plant crops. "Damn, our intensive farming has diminished yields. We should probably go do it over there instead."
    2.1 Farming is a cause of deforestation, which destroys valuable sub-ecosystems, which inherently causes the deaths of those animals living there. An example of this is Haast's Eagle. Humans hunted the Haast's eagles primary source of food, the Moa which was a large flightless bird and these were hunted to extinction, in turn making the Haast's eagle extinct by loss of natural pray. This is just a simple, non-farming related example of one species. Deforestation affects much more species of animals. Species extinction due to animal-livestock related deforestation is actually a problem.
    3. Pollution of the atmosphere via manure and fertilizer
    4. Loss of biodiversity, decrease in genetic diversity

    There are more, but yeah.. you get the general picture I suppose. (I could go on about this for a long time, so I will cut it short for everyones sake!)

    basicaly i want to be a Vegan i understand its going to be a long and hard road to get started but i will get there,
    but from what i can see because of ourselves and our self destuctive nature we no longer have a
    safe and healthy diet we can eat in almost any form?

    and most of all please tell me how to be a healthy vegan
    I don't think, comparitively before everything was overfarmed an industrialised there is anything close to that level of health. But there are varying degrees of health and veganism is definitely close to one of the healithest forms of living for the human body. Being a healthy vegan is the easiest thing in the world. You have fruits, you have vegetables, you have a bunch of grains and spices. Eat fruits and vegetables as much as you damn please, preferablly bio/organic. Stay fit and active. Nutrition is a large part of health, but so is actually moving your body, as it was designed to move. Don't take in too much refined sugars, don't take in a huge amounts of fats, but don't be scared of fats either, there are healthy fats you need and some vitamins are only fat soluable. Read up a bit, keep going and you will get there.

    kind regards
    skasha
    Kind regards back to you!

    Sorry for the wall of text!

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