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Thread: "Holistic Management"

  1. #1
    Trisolo's Avatar
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    Default "Holistic Management"

    Have people seen this recent TED talk by Allan Savory?

    http://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savor...te_change.html

    I find his solution deeply disturbing, and the practice seems to replicating around the globe...

    warmly,
    tri

  2. #2
    Consistency's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Holistic Management"

    If you understood the science, you would see how it is the only logical solution to ending climate change, ie. global warming.

    More animals migrating would equate to more grass seeds spreading around the globe with the animal poop which would equate to a lot more grass and other plants. Plants are made of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen, such as, amino acids, fatty acids, carbohydrates, vitamins and organic minerals. More carbon in plants/roots/soil equates to less carbon in the air as carbon dioxide and eventually less climate change.

    I doubt Mr. Savory eats meat cause he is stick thin.

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    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Holistic Management"

    If you understood the science, you would see how it is the only logical solution to ending climate change, ie. global warming.
    Hi - what does "it" refer to in that sentence?
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

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    Draíochta Blueberries's Avatar
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    Quote Consistency View Post
    I doubt Mr. Savory eats meat cause he is stick thin.
    Wow that's a very sweeping statement. Despite what health food vegan advocates might lead you to believe there are fat vegans and thin meat-eaters. Body shape and size is based on a myriad of factors and not all meat-eaters are overweight and ill.
    Houmous atá ann!

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    Default Re: "Holistic Management"

    Quote Korn View Post
    Hi - what does "it" refer to in that sentence?
    Holistic Management

    http://www.savoryinstitute.com/holistic-management/

    More in depth videos:

    Allan Savory - Reversing Global Warming while Meeting Human Needs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEAFTsFH_x4

    Allan Savory: Q&A Session - Reversing Global Warming while Meeting Human Needs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxPNPXbVtfI

    What I like about holistic management is the removal of disconnect between the kill of an animal and the meat in the supermarket.

    Quote Blueberries View Post
    Wow that's a very sweeping statement. Despite what health food vegan advocates might lead you to believe there are fat vegans and thin meat-eaters. Body shape and size is based on a myriad of factors and not all meat-eaters are overweight and ill.
    You're correct however I wasn't judging him solely on his very thin frame. He is alive at his age and by the way he speaks, with conscience and maturity. Its very unlikely he eats animal products if any at all and my vegan radar went off.

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    Trisolo's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Holistic Management"

    Consistency wrote: "What I like about holistic management is the removal of disconnect between the kill of an animal and the meat in the supermarket."
    ---------------

    I bolded the key words in your sentence.... how is this view reconciled with a vegan outlook?

    Beyond his "solution" being extreme Specieism and totally non-vegan, it is not supported by conclusive data other than the anecdotal.

    The destruction of the ecosystem caused by the over-grazing of livestock is to be corrected by Über-grazing? Please. Turning vast areas of the biosphere in to a gigantic feedlot sounds like good sense to you?

    Remember, this is the man responsible for murdering 40,000 elephants and many thousands of hippos in his first attempt at a "solution".

    If he is not a "meat-eater", (i personally don't care what he eats) why would he also advocate his solution as a way to end world hunger by making much more cheap meat available?

    Veganism is the the best hope for the world... and this approach is utterly anti-vegan-ism.

  7. #7
    Consistency's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Holistic Management"

    What I mean't to say is that if the killing of animals was open for the general public to see; less people would eat meat in the first place. The killing of animals is hidden from the general public; hence more people eat meat because they don't make the connection of a piece of meat coming from an animal. Would you rather keep seeing the animals locked up in warehouses or out on grasslands to eat grass?

    The destruction of the ecosystem caused by the over-grazing of livestock is to be corrected by over-grazing? Please. Turning vast areas of the biosphere in to a gigantic feedlot sounds like good sense to you?
    Can you watch the ted talk at the 9 minute mark.

    Ruminants are meant to keep the soils alive with their dung, heavy weight & hoofs breaking up the soil and then naturally migrate to prevent over-grazing. It makes perfectly good sense minus the fence's.

    We need the ruminants to revert the desertification that the human race has done on this planet.

    Remember, this is the man responsible for murdering 40,000 elephants and many thousands of hippos in his first attempt at a "solution".
    I agree that it was a very unwise thing to do because it was based on unwise research by others but he isn't the same type of man he was when he was young.

    If he is not a "meat-eater", (i personally don't care what he eats) why would he also advocate his solution as a way to end world hunger by making much more cheap meat available?
    His solution is to turn deserts into healthy soils despite the fact that animal products will feed humans.

    I would rather see nature thrive with animals than see nature dying because animals are locked up. I am not worried because people will eventually eat a 100% plant based diet.

    I would rather loose this battle and eventually win the war.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: "Holistic Management"

    In "One Straw Revolution", the author (I forget his Japanese name) was one of the first organic enthusiast. He took a clay hardened agricultural plot and turned it into deep topsoil over a 25 year period with no tilling or cultivation. Just a conscious planting/rotating of grains and soil management program that returned all chaff to the soil. No animals were used but chickens and ducks were allowed to roam for insect control and their droppings. He was basically a vegetarian macrobiotic fellow, but he wasn't against the idea of sustainable hunting or fishing if necessary. Sustainable meaning the bare minimum. He was strongly committed to growing his sustainability. Fruits, vegetables, and grains take less and give more to the land in all instances than animals. It takes very careful organic management, and it can be a bit labor intensive. "One Straw Revolution" is a great read, but it is hard to come by, and I loaned my copy out to someone. He had a very interesting approach to organic orchard planning. He didn't use formal vegetable plots, but broadcast seeds randomly. I disagree with the person who made a decision that doomed 40,000 elephants. Is his new land management another mistake he would take to his grave? If all the humid areas of the world were put to proper organic vegetarian use, then there would be an overabundance of food for the people of desert areas also. Livestock (funny name for one living towards slaughter) probably have a place, but a small place. They probably shouldn't be used anywhere edible vegetation can be used.

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