sbs-tv program

**eve** · Mar 26th, 2005, 06:36 AM

First, a word to Cal, and anyone else who gets really upset with programs and postings here dealing with animal cruelty. If you get upset, please go to another thread.

The 'The Australian' tv reviewer, Stephen Romel, urges everyone to watch sbs-tv on Thursday at 8.30pm to see 'Piggy'. In fact he says it is one thing to read about medieval horrors of modern farming, but seeing and hearing is another matter, and he said that 'Piggy' is essential viewing.

He points out that 100 million pigs worldwide are killed each year at 25 wks of age, though it pales in comparison with the 8.25 BILLion chickens slaughtered annually to become KFC nuggets etc. Romel asks surely it is not anthropomorphism to believe that animals deserve better? He goes into a bit of detail of what appears on screen, but I won't repeat that here.

**Imapeach** · Mar 27th, 2005, 04:59 AM

I for one will surely be watching this as i've been reading articles about it all week!

One Melbourne paper wrote a decent review on it, but concluded by mentioning that not all pig farms are so brutal and then recommended a quaint little "organic" piggery from which to buy ur pork from if the documentary upsets you. It pointed out that the animals at the organic piggery are raised as "happy" little pigs until the day they are killed by the hand that feeds them. Well, they didn't quite say it like that.....

There was a much better article in yesterday's Weekend Australian. Unfortunately I didn't get a copy of it

For some reason though it quoted George W.'s former speech writer as a legitimate source of information

**eve** · Mar 27th, 2005, 06:08 AM

The quote from Scully's book was excellent.

**Cal** · Mar 27th, 2005, 06:41 AM

I am here in the thread.

I do try to watch shows such as 'Piggy', even though I get upset, as I feel I should stay informed at all times.

I found Matthew Scully's book 'Dominion' to be a great read, though he is quite religious (and I'm not) and he was Bush's speech writer in the past.

**eve** · Mar 27th, 2005, 06:47 AM

Well it takes all sorts. Scully's book really is a good read, and as to his being religious, well it is obvious that we have a few religious nuts, oops, sorry, a few religious thinkers on this forum

. As to being Bush's speech writer, well I guess it's a living!

**Imapeach** · Mar 27th, 2005, 07:45 AM

I can't recall the exact quote of Scully's that was used in the article but it struck me as very similar to Bentham's

The question is not, "Can they reason?" nor, "Can they talk?" but rather, "Can they suffer?

And now i've just done some quick research on Scully... he seems to dismiss veganism and yet support vegetarianism from what i understand... is this right?

**Cal** · Mar 28th, 2005, 02:50 AM

Imapeach

I can't recall the exact quote of Scully's that was used in the article but it struck me as very similar to Bentham's

The question is not, "Can they reason?" nor, "Can they talk?" but rather, "Can they suffer?

And now i've just done some quick research on Scully... he seems to dismiss veganism and yet support vegetarianism from what i understand... is this right?

I found this on a website: Regarding the consumption of animal products and all other forms of animal exploitation, Scully, who is a vegan, similarly writes that “[w]hen substitute products are found, with each creature in turn, responsible dominion calls for a reprieve… What were once ‘necessary evils’ become just evils.”

This is the site Satya

**ricky** · Mar 28th, 2005, 08:58 AM

The Scully quote in The Weekend Australian refers to lives of animals being important. He simply says: "... the life given them is all they have. For them it is the world, and who is anyone to treat it lightly?".

**Imapeach** · Mar 28th, 2005, 09:25 AM

thankyou cal and ricky!

I do like that quote

**eve** · Apr 1st, 2005, 06:50 AM

Well I saw that program, and it made me feel sad at the lives of those pigs who never see the sun or the sky, are never able to root about in the earth, or see grass. Their living conditions are just awful. The ending was rather manipulative, giving 'piggy' a nice home. Why wasn't he one of the pigs who went down the chute to be slaughtered? I guess some film-makers must have a happy ending. But I didn't feel happy at all. I just wonder if the film had any impact on people who eat bacon for breakfast?

**Mystic** · Apr 1st, 2005, 08:53 AM

I saw this show too - It didn't affect me as bad as MYM - they should broadcast that. My omni boyfriend only saw the pig part of MYM and now he won't consume any pork products. He watched that show with me and we both thought that it was fantastic how they showed the cuts of meat - it makes you think about what (or who) you are actually eating and what you are supporting by doing so.

**ricky** · Apr 2nd, 2005, 06:10 AM

The 'SaveBabe' campaign also referred to the sbs program, and they also say that many people have seen the eye-catching hard-hitting savebabe.com billboards which went up in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth during the past two weeks. These billboards which question whether customers 'Still feel like bacon?' on viewing the graphic photo showing the confinement endured by breeding sows, will be up for at least the next month. You can see the posters in their full 6 metre x 3 metre versions at :

Brisbane: 346 Sandgate Road, Albion and Wynnum Road, Wynnum
Sydney (railway stations) Platform 24 Central; Platform 4 Town Hall; Platform 5 Wynyard; Platform 1 Bondi Junction; Platform 4 Illawarra Hurstville Station; 618 New Canterbury Road, Hurlstone Park

Melbourne: Spencer Street, City; Russell Street, City; Elgin & Lygon Street, Carlton; 223 Queens Parade, Clifton Hills

Adelaide: North East Road, Walkerville; South Road, Hilton; Sir Donald Bradman Drive, Hilton;
76 Norwood Parade, Norwood; Cross Road, Edwardstown (funded by AL SA) Brighton Road, Seacliff (funded by AL SA)

Perth: 178 William Street, Northbridge; 292 James Street, Perth

More and more people are becoming aware and expressing concern about the lives endured by pigs in factory farms. It has again been reinforced that when consumers are informed they are horrified, both by the suffering of these animals and that they have been unwittingly supporting the practices of this industry by purchasing cruelly-produced products. This has shown us the importance of the savebabe.com campaign and in informing and empowering people to realise that they can make this world a kinder and more compassionate place for animals and all, simply through the choices that they make as individuals. The intensive pig industry believes that Australians don't prioritise the welfare of animals in this country to the extent where they will avoid products known to be cruelly produced.
Let's hope the www.savebabe.com campaign will help.

**adam antichrist** · Apr 9th, 2005, 05:24 AM

ricky

These billboards which question whether customers 'Still feel like bacon?' on viewing the graphic photo showing the confinement endured by breeding sows at :

Elgin & Lygon Street, Carlton

This is beautifully placed right at the beginning of the Carlton cafe strip

ricky

Let's hope the www.savebabe.com campaign will help.

I used to give money to animals australia, until last year they sent me a dvd with great footage of factory farmed pigs. Then at the end of it, it said "buy organic pork" (!!!!!)

Since AA promotes organic or free range pork, won't they just be harming any resteraunt that may have already taken their advice and ceased buying factory farmed pork?

As for the piggy show, the conditions in australia are different. My introduction to animal rights came through working in a piggery in 1997 (been vego since the minute I entered the place). We didn't castrate the piglets, and they were slaughtered at a younger age, upon reaching either 75 or 80 kilos (can't remember which).

Also the slaughtering technique in the doco is different, aussie pigs are gassed and not electrocuted. The extermination scenes in the doco were the most sterile I have ever seen. PETA footage shows a slaughterhouse where porkers hang from a leg bleeding to death and is more graphic and certainly more realistic.

Also the reason pigs are electrocuted or gassed first is because of the affect that trauma has on the meat (makes it discolour I think... can anyone confirm?). Sheep, cattle etc don't have this effect so they are merely stunned with a boltgun to the head (usually) but this often does little more than cause more serious injury. For example: ALNSW members visiting a slaughterhouse some years back witnessed the person stunning the sheep miss the temple completely and take out it's eye. It then had it's throat cut anyway.

I would like to see the same doco made for the life of a factory farmed chicken... far more disturbing I think.

katie · Apr 16th, 2005, 05:46 AM

Hi everyone! This forum is great - I can't believe it took me so long to find it! The SBS program was great - I'm glad that for once, some realistic footage was shown in Australia of factory farm conditions!!! I just wanted to respond to adam antichrists post ...

adam antichrist

I used to give money to animals australia, until last year they sent me a dvd with great footage of factory farmed pigs. Then at the end of it, it said "buy organic pork" (!!!!!)

Firstly, I have been a member of Animals Australia for a number of years. I too have received their CD-Rom (not DVD) in regards to the ‘savebabe.com’ campaign. In no way does it endorse ‘organic’ or ‘free range’ pork. It only says “please tell your supermarket that you will not purchase intensively farmed pork, ham or bacon products”. I’m not sure which one you’re talking about – because I e-mailed the AA office and they confirmed that they have only produced one intensive pig-related CD.

adam antichrist

As for the piggy show, the conditions in australia are different. My introduction to animal rights came through working in a piggery in 1997 (been vego since the minute I entered the place). We didn't castrate the piglets, and they were slaughtered at a younger age, upon reaching either 75 or 80 kilos (can't remember which).

Castration is performed on many piglets in intensive (and other) piggeries. FYI, male piglets are castrated to eliminate what is known as ‘boar taint’. The hormones in a sexually mature pig cause the meat to taste undesirable, so this is why it’s done. It is generally not a necessary procedure if the pig is one day to become pork, as these animals are slaughtered before reaching puberty (thereby not producing the hormone). It is performed almost exclusively for pigs that are reared to one day become ‘bacon’ – this is because pigs that are used for bacon are older and are sexually mature at the time of slaughter.

adam antichrist

Also the slaughtering technique in the doco is different, aussie pigs are gassed and not electrocuted. )

Whilst it is fair to say that gassing is the main method of stunning in Australian slaughterhouses, electrocution is still used for this purpose in many abattoirs across the country.

adam antichrist

I would like to see the same doco made for the life of a factory farmed chicken... far more disturbing I think.

I don't know about far more disturbing.. all of it is highly unethical and distressing if you ask me! But check out COK (Compassion Over Killing)'s website: http://www.chickenindustry.com/cfi/documentary/
They've produced this amazing documentary, "45 days: the life and death of a broiler chicken". It's the best account of the *real* life of a broiler chick I am yet to see. I have a copy of it on CD-Rom if you'd like to borrow it.

Just wanted to clear that up a little! Looking forward to future discussions

**Imapeach** · Apr 16th, 2005, 06:15 AM

Thanks for that info, Katie, and welcome to the forums! Where in Aus are you?

I found the program very interesting, however, as eve said, I found the "happy" ending and narrative to be rather manipulative. I do hope it contributes to the Savebabe campaign in some regard though.

I watched the show with a friend and by the time the slaughterhouse scene came on, I was quietly crying. He asked me why I watched shows like this if they're only going to upset me. I couldn't explain that it wasn't the images, or the show itself, that upsets me - but rather the fact that there's so many people in the world who either do not know this goes on, or DO know and just don't care

**adam antichrist** · Apr 16th, 2005, 07:11 AM

katie

Firstly, I have been a member of Animals Australia for a number of years. I too have received their CD-Rom (not DVD) in regards to the ‘savebabe.com’ campaign. In no way does it endorse ‘organic’ or ‘free range’ pork. It only says “please tell your supermarket that you will not purchase intensively farmed pork, ham or bacon products”. I’m not sure which one you’re talking about – because I e-mailed the AA office and they confirmed that they have only produced one intensive pig-related CD.

Isn't that the same thing? Convince your supermarket to stock non factory farmed pork products? Admittedly I have misquoted the source, but that is because I threw the disc across the room in disgust after the first viewing and I don't think I have it anymore to check if my recollections are accurate! Although, buy organic pork is certainly the message I got out of it.

Also the AA CD doesn't go on to say that you are still supporting factory farmed piggeries if you eat lollies, soft serve icecream or even buy cricket bats; all of which often use pork by-products in the manufacturing process. If they say "go vegan" at the end of their videos there is no room for confusion.

**eve** · Apr 16th, 2005, 07:44 AM

I'm also a member of AnimalsAustralia, and not sure if they are all vegan. Certainly with Animal Lib Victoria, everyone there is a vegan and it is stated on their website. As to the suggestion about telling the supermarket we won't purchase intensively farmed pork (which is true) - suppose the manager then offers some organically farmed pork?

katie · Apr 17th, 2005, 02:59 PM

Me again - yep, all employees of Animals Australia are vegan (just a phone call or e-mail to them will confirm this...) from their past campaigns, they're not aiming at an 'everyone must go vegan' message - and personally, I don't see anything wrong with that. Every animal protection group works differently - and I trust that AA knows what they're talking about. All you need do is just see what they've achieved already (take the live export campaign for example..) Adam AC, do realise ofcourse that the 'buy organic pork' message is *your* interpretation... (and just my opinion here) but if I weren't a vegan - and aware of the injustice associated with *any* slaughter of animals for the pleasure of humans - i don't think I'd reach the same conclusion.
I think it depends on what works, and what doesn't. I agree with Ingrid Newkirk's philosophy - (which works - she has proven practically) - that 'you can't get from A to Z in one step - you go from A to B.. .and then B to C until you reach your objective". If someone's going to buy 'free range' or 'organic' products, then I believe that's one step closer to the abolishment of exploitation. At least people come to realise that animals *are* sentient creatures, and deserve a better life. The next step (I reckon) is then making them wonder... "why is it that it's ok that I eat this (sentient) pig, and at the same time, I would scream bloody murder if i saw someone eating a dog??" hmmm.... they're just my thoughts anyway - responses welcome!!