Why weren't you vegan before you became vegan?

[veganblue]

I always get the 'well what have we got these for' (pointing at teeth). I don't get that. Do we have teeth that look like they are supposed to be used for ripping up meat? can somebody tell me. Would like to have an answer to meat eaters when they use this excuse.

I usually ask gently, how they would approach a cow or sheep or any animal in the field and try to use those teeth to bring the animal down in the same way a tiger does...

Maybe your sabertoothed friend has not been out in the wild harvesting animals recently? They may find that a cow will flick off any attempts to open its hide with such implements, at the risk of life and limb of the assailant.

[Seaside]

Posted by veganblue:

I usually ask gently, how they would approach a cow or sheep or any animal in the field and try to use those teeth to bring the animal down in the same way a tiger does...

That's one of my favorite examples!

When I was taking field geology, we went on lots of field trips through the California hills. We climbed over lots of barbed-wire fences, and encountered lots of cattle. EVERYONE, (except me, too sappy to be scared of any animal!) was frightened of the beasts, and way more ready to run to the nearest fence than to test their teeth and fingernails against those hooves and horns!
They may look placid when you are driving by, but they can get pretty darn frisky when you approach on foot!

[Heather]

I've thought about this a lot since I became vegan (about six months ago). It seems to me that it's obvious that an intellingent and compassionate person would be a vegan, but it just isn't so black and white.

I was a veggie for about 25 years before becoming vegan but gave little thought to the suffering and slaughter of cows/hens to produce dairy/eggs. I bought free range and organic and my conscience was clear. Then I heard about how newly hatched chicks from laying hens are horrifically killed and immediately became a vegan. I still can't understand how I went all those years without thinking about something so obvious.

My family are all compassionate and intelligent people, most are veggies but some are total meat-eaters, but won't listen to my arguments. They prefer to bury their heads in the sand to breaking their habits.

I really despair sometimes about this dilemma.

[englishvegoboi]

If we look at humanity as a whole, it is a very depressing outlook. We are much like a virus of epidemic proportions. However, what keeps me going is the minority of people who are both compassionate and always striving to make the world a better place for all of human and non-human nature.

My brother is currently in Asia and he is paranoid about catching avian flu but he is also looking forward to tucking into some Peking duck. He doesn't under stand that he is contributing to the problem and if so, he doesn't care.

Oh well...next time I am in Sydney I'll take him to my favourite vegan restaurant (Peace Harmony on 29 King Street) and he can try the best mock chicken satay in the entire world!!!

[DoveInGreyClothing]

I'd say it was mainly conditioning and apathy. Most people I know eat meat but they are otherwise nice, compassionate and intelligent people. I kinda feel as if the whole world has gone mad and we're the only sane ones!

[DoveInGreyClothing]

I was a veggie for about 25 years before becoming vegan but gave little thought to the suffering and slaughter of cows/hens to produce dairy/eggs. I bought free range and organic and my conscience was clear. Then I heard about how newly hatched chicks from laying hens are horrifically killed and immediately became a vegan. I still can't understand how I went all those years without thinking about something so obvious. By the way, I chose to stop eating meat as a young child as soon as I realised that it was corpse, .

Ditto. I've been veggie since I was 12 and old enough to research the subject and realise I could live healthily without meat, but only went all the way as a new year's resolution at the end of last year. Jo Stepaniak's "Vegan Sourcebook" made my mind up after I hired it from the library.

[Zool]

Why not be vegan?

Meat tastes great! I don't crave it at all now because of how immoral & filthy it is and horrible for your health. The thought of the taste disgusts me now. But back in the day I can remember craving a burger pretty bad. Especially when I was vegan just for health reasons. Once trying to be healthy led to an awakening to all the cruelty that goes on, all the cravings went away.

It's also convenient. There's fast food places on every corner. Meat everywhere! To be vegan means having to go out of your way to find suitable food. People by nature are pretty lazy. I know I tend to be. I bet if there was a vegan restaurant right next to every McDonalds in the world, our numbers would mutiply by several hundred times immediately just because being vegan would be easier. Look at how much the whole "healthy angle" has benefitted Subway's sales the last few years. If only we could get the "lose weight effortlessly" word spread as quickly as the Atkins people did. I see the low carb crap everywhere I look.

[jhodgski]

Conditioning. Since birth for some reason, I don't know how this conditioning evolved over the years. From day one it is taught it is fine and good and normal to kill and eat other animals, and their reproductive secretions. For us to go against this such an ingrained in our heads since baby-dom belief makes vegans not "normal", I can't believe it, I feel like I'm living in the Twilight Zone when people are so baffled on why I don't eat animals or their secretions..

There are obviously a number of factors, but this is the main one I was thinking of - although on a larger scale.

My thought is that it seems to be general human nature to follow suit, so if it's normal in a certain nation or culture to consume animals, milk and eggs, etc. then that's what most of those people will do without too much thought (especially when the cultural practices are enforced by certain religions).

But hopefully veganism can still keep steadily growing, so it becomes a more apparent choice for people, with more of the world's caring people choosing to go that way.

I don't know how many of the world's population are vegan by choice, but if we were all born into a primarily vegan world, I'm pretty sure the corresponding number of meat-eaters would be much less.

So hopefully, the way veganism proceeds will be like a snowball effect. And, with all the logic and compassion on it's side, maybe that will be what happens.

Cheers,
James

[kokopelli]

I agree jhodgski.
I believe veganism will grow exponentially.

My kids are life vegans, and sometimes I worry that if they fall in love with meat-eaters, I may end up with carnivorous grandchildren, which would be very upsetting.

But so far, they seem to be doing a pretty good job of educating their friends and encouraging them to give up meat. It helps when sceptical people can see that you can live your whole life without animal products and be perfectly healthy.

And even my brother's Daily Mirror has been encouraging readers to switch from eating traditional full English breakfasts, burgers, etc, to a reduced meat diet, rich in fresh fruit and veg, for the sake of their health.

[foxytina_69]

how old are your children kokopelli?

[kokopelli]

Hi Foxytina

My sons are 19 and 17 and my daughter's 12.

[effulgent]

Why was I not vegan for a long time before I became vegan? Because Ben & Jerry's is SOOOOO GOOOD! I have yet to taste any Soy/Rice "ice cream" that comes even a little bit close to how good Ben & Jerry's tastes. I've tried Soy Delicious (a bunch of different flavors), Soy Dream, Rice Dream and Tofutti so far. My husband was eating Brownie Batter ice cream yesterday next to me on the couch, and it took all of my willpower to not just steal it and take a great big bite.

So I made me a blueberry/banana smoothie with soy milk and apple juice and a little bit of agave syrup to sweeten it up a bit. And it was good. But I still miss ice cream.

I don't have a problem going out of my way to eat the stuff that's "Ok" for me to eat as a vegan, but I do miss a few non-vegan things, ice cream being the biggest one. I really like Almond Milk, so I'm going to try to make some vegan almond ice cream at home at some point this summer. I have a nifty ice cream maker that I haven't used in a while.

[Shisha Fiend]

I was not vegan for thirteen years because I didn't know the cows and chickens suffered in the dairy and egg industries. You know, I ate free reange eggs and I thought it was okay. Plus I didn't know vegan existed. It just didn't occur to me that that was a possibility.

Anyway then I bought this book about all different sorts of animal cruelty and found otu the whole deal with eggs, milk, wool, and everything else. And I told my mum I wanted to go vegan and she said it was unhealthy and that I had to wait till I was 16 at which point I could do what I liked as she was no longer responsible. So I persuaded her that I could at least give up eggs, and I gave up eggs, wool, and all other sorts of animal products- till I turned 16 and then I gave up dairy too, and became a vegan.

So the initial reason was ignorance, and then parental pressure not to.

[Robin]

Well, I'm not as of yet and that's pretty much a combination of doubtful parents and my own general laziness. Since I'm in the middle of it I often get the feeling that it's difficult to get started at it in a way that isn't remedied by theoretical knowledge.

I'm sure you know the feeling, where do I start? Where do I find soymilk? how do you make tasty meals with tempeh and tofu? etc etc. The only way to get into it seems like, well, get into it!

And I think that's what daunts a lot of people, plus peer pressure, foodculture, culture in general, fear of being the weirdo, fear of being ridiculed (sissy! treehugger!!!) and a bunch of other stuff.

[katie]

one word: cheese. i still miss it too!

[sylkan]

Ignorance

Because they care more about their own whimsical pleasure or conforming to others' expectations, than about innocents' suffering and lives.

They can't be bothered

They're addicted to the chemicals in the flesh or bodily fluids of animals

They're semi- or fully sociopathic

They don;t respect themselves, the world or animals' lives

They're unwilling to remove themselves from being part of the generic flock by being WEIRD (ie vegan)

There are bound to be others, but those seem to be the most obvious ones

What are your thoughts ?

I would say these all seem the same types of reasons I encounter. It seems to me that it is pretty selfish to say I know this hurts someone but I'm gonna do it anyway because I like it.

[kokopelli]

one word: cheese. i still miss it too!

have a look at the picture of cheese mites I posted on this thread, katie, you won't miss cheese after seeing them!

http://veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3616

[Robin]

ugh....I just had cheese on my veggieburger...I'll never respond to baits like that just after eating again O_o


...or maybe I should o_ó

[katie]

thanks kokopelli, that helps! soycheese is looking a whole lot more appetising

[Evilfluffbunny]

I was veggie from the age of 8, but before I knew about veal and the shocking treatment of chickens I thought that vegans were a bit extreme to be honest. I wasn't negative about them, I just couldn't see the point in it. I started eating free range eggs and not using milk (although I'd eat products with milk in), but I was riddled with guilt, especially after I learned that even free range chickens are usually de-beaked.

I wanted to go vegan but I thought I couldn't because I wasn't keen on vegetables and I thought that was pretty much all I could eat (I know, I know - stupid of me)! Finally, when I was 20 I decided I'd try it for a week and see how it went and thankfully I never looked back! It's been over 5 years now

I felt better on every level and wished I'd done it sooner. My Mum went vegan about a year after I did.

[PolluxStar]

I wish I had been Vegan I'm 19

I don't miss anything , besides some selected italian foods.. and probably something else..

[Robin]

All you people who's been veggie since like you reached a hobbit to his kneecaps just amaze me. I certainly didn't have that sort of inutive awareness by then.

Kinda sounds a bit like homosexuals, you know like some has known as far back as they remembered, kinda interesting.

[kokopelli]

I felt better on every level and wished I'd done it sooner. My Mum went vegan about a year after I did.

That's brilliant, Evilfluffbunny!

I wish my mum would go vegan, but I don't think she ever will, unless she comes to live with us.

[Evilfluffbunny]

That's the funny thing, my Mum had already been vegetarian since she was 17, but she didn't want to force it on me when I was born. I remember having chicken one day and asking her what it was and how it got there and everything and she did tell me it was a bird, but she also said it died of old age so it's ok to eat it! I had to learn the truth for myself after joining a junior RSPCA club and getting books from the school library.

My Mum turned veggie simply because she loves animals, but she didn't know anything really about farming methods and slaughterhouses etc. She grudgingly turned vegan after I told her about veal and the chicken industry. My Dad eats meat but keeps saying he'll turn veggie, he's been saying that for several years though so I don't think it'll ever happen!

[Mozbee]

All you people who's been veggie since like you reached a hobbit to his kneecaps just amaze me. I certainly didn't have that sort of inutive awareness by then.

Kinda sounds a bit like homosexuals, you know like some has known as far back as they remembered, kinda interesting.

I suppose it was pretty instinctive. To me once I knew where meat came from or rather what it really is - eating it seemed as cruel as eating a rabbit, guinea-pig, squirrel, parrot, piglet, hedgehog, frog, elephant, the list goes on & on &...

[Heather]

EvilFluffbunny you did better than me! I was 9 when I became a total ovo-lacto veggie, but it took me virtually 20years to take the vegan route.

I became an ovo-lacto veggie when I was 7 - my aunt became one and when she explained why, I converted too. I had asked questions about where meat came from before this, but was always given evasive answers by my parents. I sadly didn't become a vegan until 27 years later (about 6 months ago).

I brought my child up as an omni but now really regret this. I believed that she should eat 'normally' until she chose to do otherwise (I know this is a load of cr*p now, btw). My excuse is that I was very young when I had her and that I would definitely do things a lot differently now. Luckily, she converted to vegetarianism a couple of years ago without pressure from me, and is thinking of becoming vegan but doesn't have the willpower at the moment. She is very much against animal testing and constantly argues with her friends in school about this, so I must have done something right!!

I've also helped convert my mother and sister to vegetarianism, and I'm working on converting them to veganism - I think I'll go and polish my halo now!

[kriz]

All you people who's been veggie since like you reached a hobbit to his kneecaps just amaze me. I certainly didn't have that sort of inutive awareness by then.

Kinda sounds a bit like homosexuals, you know like some has known as far back as they remembered, kinda interesting.

Interesting comparsion you made there, Robin. I've never heard that one before... but, yeah, it's kind of like that - I didn't want meat since the age of 4. Nobody could convince me otherwise, unless they tried to mask the meat and downright trick me into eating it, which was NOT an easy task! My parents tried in the beginning, but then it became a habit for me to double check everything. So when they finally realized how serious I was, they stopped their "tricks" on me. I SCANNED all the labels as soon as I knew how to read.... Oh, Poor my parents, what a fuzzy kid I was!

[Korn]

where do I start?

Anywhere.

[Robin]

Ah yes, that's my problem, I just can't seem to make up my mind

[DianeVegan]

If it seems too daunting, you can take it in steps. I was about a month into eliminating foods that I could no longer eat for environmental/ethical reasons before I realized that I was on my way to becoming a vegan. I don't think you have to change everything in one day. It's more important that you are making the change to veganism.

[Robin]

Yeah I'm on my way, little by little. We're in the middle of moving so I'm a little scatterbrained for the moment

[jhodgski]

To answer the original question, I wasn't vegan because I thought veganism was an uneccesarily extreme thing that only odd people must do.

It was only after several weeks at work where I was bored and had nothing to do, I was running out of things to surf the internet for when, just out of intrigue, I thought I'd look up veganism and why vegans actually existed.

Before that, I'd probably ranked veganism on a par with line dancing or something like that, but within a week or two I was vegan. End of story!

[WalkingWest]

I'm brand spankin new compared to most here it seems...
Fleshless for about year and a half now: Lacto-ovo for the first couple of months, Vegan for the rest.

It started for me when my girlfriend and I broke up, and I moved out (after 11 years together ) I dove into the computer looking for answers about life. Couple months, hundreds of documentaries, audiobooks, videos of protests, books later.... I got the picture about the world out there, that I had NO idea existed. Veganism was the final step.
Now I'm back with my girlfriend... I shared what I learned (she was already at "that level" before), she became Vegan, and here we are....
a couple of crazy Animals!

Why wasn't I Vegan before I was Vegan?
I was blind.

[sylkan]

[QUOTE=Heather]I brought my child up as an omni but now really regret this. I believed that she should eat 'normally' until she chose to do otherwise (I know this is a load of cr*p now, btw). My excuse is that I was very young when I had her and that I would definitely do things a lot differently now. Luckily, she converted to vegetarianism a couple of years ago without pressure from me, and is thinking of becoming vegan but doesn't have the willpower at the moment. She is very much against animal testing and constantly argues with her friends in school about this, so I must have done something right!! QUOTE]

I did the same thing with my daughter. I just wanted her to be able to choose. Now she loves meat and I feel helpless to do anything about it. I just have to wait. She is fully aware of why I am going vegan, and she hates the idea of eating animals, but she is full into the "me, me, and me" stage of life at nine years old. She can't quite give up something that she enjoys even though she knows that it's wrong. It doesn't help that her father eats meat and has no intention of stopping. He often says that he would like to, but claims that it isn't possible for him (a load of crap as far as I'm concerned!).

[sylkan]

If I ever had children I'd have to bring them up vegetarian (atleast), as I would be able to stand having carcass segments in the house!

I do the cooking so there are no carcass segments in my house. She eats meat when her dad gets lunch meats, makes burgers, or the occasional roast or when we go to family for supper. still no carcass segments thank goodness.

[Seaside]

Posted by kriz:

Interesting comparsion you made there, Robin. I've never heard that one before... but, yeah, it's kind of like that - I didn't want meat since the age of 4.

The title of the thread kinda makes me laugh! It reminds me of the old "which came first, the chicken or the egg."

But seriously, I think we are ALL vegan at birth! None of us wasn't a vegan before we became "vegan", we are all just brainwashed by the society we are born in to believe animal products are food. They aren't, and it is only a matter of time for some to realize this truth. Children have natural instincts against meat that are subverted by parents who don't know any better, and the point in your life when you are able to reject this conditioning depends upon how successful the conditioning was.
My favorite example is an analogy of Harvey Diamond's, who says if you take a tiger cub and leave him alone in a room with an apple and a bunny, he will eat the bunny and play with the apple. If you do the same with a young human, he will eat the apple and play with the bunny.

[kokopelli]

I agree with you, Seaside...but I want to know whether something exciting will also happen if the persian pomegranate spirit appears on my computer screen?

[Seaside]

Posted by kokopelli:

but I want to know whether something exciting will also happen if the persian pomegranate spirit appears on my computer screen?

I hope so!

Posted by Mozbee:

Yes, I'm sure I was born to be vegan...afterall I'm a homo sapien! (Although it seems blood-types do have a bearing on things).

I think there is a thread on that blood-type diet. You might be interested!

[DoveInGreyClothing]

if you take a tiger cub and leave him alone in a room with an apple and a bunny, he will eat the bunny and play with the apple. If you do the same with a young human, he will eat the apple and play with the bunny.

Nice quote there, think I'll be using that on some of my signatures!

[sylkan]

But seriously, I think we are ALL vegan at birth! None of us wasn't a vegan before we became "vegan", we are all just brainwashed by the society we are born in to believe animal products are food. They aren't, and it is only a matter of time for some to realize this truth. Children have natural instincts against meat that are subverted by parents who don't know any better, and the point in your life when you are able to reject this conditioning depends upon how successful the conditioning was.

I actualy disagree. Some kids really do love meat at first taste. My daughter is one. She has always preferred meat to any other type of food from the first moment she had it, although I did introduce it late. I, on the other hand, hated it and would push it around my plate for hours. My brother was the same way.

As to blood types, well, in our case, my brother, my daughter and I are all type O so that rules "natural" taste out. I've read two books about blood type diets and I have real problems with it. It neglects the fact that if a type O person (who, according to the diet, should thrive on mostly meat, yuck!) has been raised a strict vegetarian or vegan switched even gradually to a meat diet then that person would become very ill. Much evidence shows that it depends on what you were raised on not on what your ancestors or fellow type O (A, B, AB) eat. Personally I was pretty insulted to read that I am "naturally" supposed to eat large amounts of meat and would likely shorten my life as a vegetarian. Give me a break!

[Hasha]

Lol, Sylkan! I'm also type O, and yet I never liked meat. If it hadn't been forced on me, I never would have eaten it in the first place! My father's also type O, and although he's omni, he isn't a big meat eater; same with my grandmother. My mother, however, is a big meat eater , but she's type A.

[sugarmouse]

An easy way to find this out (for vegans) is to try to remember why they weren't vegan before they switched. In my case it was ignorance.

me too!! ignorance of how easy it was to be..cos i was so passionate bout things..n non realisation of my beleifs of hoow it is wrong to eat animalss or their secretions.noiwit meks me feel sick to think of it!!

[LittleNellColumbia]

Ive just come back from staying at my dads....which tought me alot about ignorance. I kindly cooked him tea: satay vegies and rice......"whats this?" he says, "wheres my meat? wheres the meal?" As according to my dad, and an unfortunant amout of others in the world, a meal isnt a meal with out you "basic" staple: meat.

I explained to him my lifestyle, and my choices along with my reasons. "where do you get your iron?" "do you have an eating disorder" were among many of his stupid, ignorant questions and remarks.

He also thinks that humans are superior to other animals! Do ppl just forget that we are ALL animals? we are all living, breathing being with feeling and souls?

It also frusterates me wen im at scool, and this boy will look at me in disgusting and say " well, wot the hell DO you eat? I mean come on, wot else IS there?"

Some ppl are just ignorant. Thats the only explaination i can come up with for myself at this point in time. I just find it very sad.

[Lindsay]

but when you are 13, you haven’t got a clue about what to eat and you have everyone constantly making you feel bad for being veggie it is near impossible. That’s unless you are very outspoken which I was not and you have someone to turn to for support!

Hmm, that's odd. I'm a younger teenager and I think I have a very good idea of what to eat! I don't personally know any other vegans and my vegetarian friends look to me for advice, so I guess I must be very outspoken.

I wasn't vegan because I thought veganism was an uneccesarily extreme thing that only odd people must do.

Same for me, when I pictured veg*ns and AR activists, I always thought of the "crazy people" who would stand outside stores and scream and yell at passersby. My mom would always lock the car doors if we got stuck at a traffic light by protesters. I guess by that, I was taught to be afraid of those people, and that they weren't normal. I also thought of those "hippy" types, and that those were weird people who I had no business listening to anyway. I was never going to be "that type."

I think my parents still look at me like that sometimes.

[Zandi]

I wasn't vegan because I thought veganism was an uneccesarily extreme thing that only odd people must do.

I fall into this category too! I also didn't know enough about what it truly meant though, and had no idea how to go about making the transition. I felt more safe staying where I was than to do something so horribly wrong in my attempt!

[Hemlock]

I thought it would be impossible to find enough to eat and buy toiletries which at first it seemed it was. But after a few months I had it sussed and don't need to go out of my home town to get everything I need. And this is in Seaford which is only a very small seaside town with very basic shops.
Brighton is up the road for shoes, clothes and vegan places to eat out.
How times have changed

[foxytina_69]

i didnt know veganism excited, and knew nothing of vegetarianism. i was an avid, full on meat eater until i watched "meat your meet" and after that, i was vegan. :|

[powder]

Didn't know better. I try not to feel bad about not becoming more aware sooner, but sometimes I really wish I had at least been vegan since I was a teen.

[Zandi]

i was an avid, full on meat eater until i watched "meat your meet" and after that, i was vegan. :|

Good for you FoxyTina! When I began seeking out video clips to force myself to see what is happening....Meet Your Meat was one of the first I saw. <--- I looked like that for weeks after seeing it. Lol! I didn't touch meat again and often had nightmares of Alec Baldwin appearing and telling me: "The video you are about to watch...." Lol!!

Didn't know better. I try not to feel bad about not becoming more aware sooner...

It's ok, Powder! I think it happens when we are ready for the *right* reasons! I was a veggie in my teens because I wanted to lose weight and it was also a "trendy" thing to do. I had no idea on how to eat right and didn't really think much about the health portion of it...I liked animals and wanted to be pencil thin. It only lasted a year and I felt horrible. When I stopped eating animal products this time, it was with more information and much better reasons! I even saw a nutritionist and am on the right track now. I don't feel bad for when I ate meat because it is an evolution and it also gives me hope that today's meat eating friends and family of mine may also realize what they are doing and stop!

Someone recently asked me how long I have been vegan. I just answered, "Since I researched what happens to the animals before I eat them." We can't do better than that, so congratulate yourself for what you are doing today!

[Suedehead]

I was a blinkered veggie!