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Thread: Genetically Modified Organisms (GMO)

  1. #251

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    Default GM food - yes or no?

    just wondering what the general vegan opinion is on GM crops?

    do you think its unnatural and should be avoided, or do you look forward to the day when we can buy fertilizer-free veg, grown at twice the yeild at half the price?

  2. #252
    frugivorous aubergine's Avatar
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    Default Re: GM food.. yes or no?

    Personally I think GM is a terrible idea.

    Have you read 'The Food Revolution' by John Robbins? It contains a lof of information on why we should be worried by GM.

  3. #253
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    Default Re: GM food.. yes or no?

    I don't think there is a general vegan view but on the other hand I don't think I've come across (m)any vegans who are in favour yet.

    I don't like the idea of something whose effects can't be predicted being let loose on the world in an irreversible way. Also some of the GM innovations involve using animal genes, e.g. fish gene in tomatoes, don't they?

  4. #254
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    Default Re: GM food.. yes or no?

    i don't like the idea of gm foodstuffs - but as harpy said, there is no general view - just form your own opinion based on what you read, hear and learn - whatever you decide, will be your opinion. don't worry about what others think.

  5. #255
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    Default Re: GM food.. yes or no?

    Avoid gm as much as poss - not so bad for an oldie like me, but I wonder what the effect in 20yrs time may be, for today's young people. Recall how tobacco was pushed as healthy, or asbestos as a great building material, then 20 yrs later came the evident effects.
    Eve

  6. #256

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    Default Re: GM food.. yes or no?

    hmmm.. good points. personally, im pro-GM.. i think GM crops are the only way we could ever grow enough to feed everyone, especially with the oncoming effects of global warming.. I do think it has to be treated very very carefully though, and it is... ive worked in labs, i know how much care and detail is put into the handling and developing of GM plants.

    some GMOs will use animal genes.. but one animal gene from a couple of cells, inserted into one Arabidopsis plant would be all that is needed to create endless seed stocks. And if GM can eliminate the use of animal-derived fertilizer, i think its a good option.


    Not many people are in favour of GM, but not many people know much about it either.. i dont know that much - just what ive picked up by working on plant genetics, but i will definately read that book, Aubergine.

  7. #257
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    Default Re: GM food.. yes or no?

    Don't f**k with my food please
    here comes the sun

  8. #258

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    Default Re: GM food.. yes or no?

    crop scientists have been F**king with food for ages, not by genetic manipulation but by genetic forcing.... 'natural' wheat for example is actually 6ft tall, you dont see any of that around!

  9. #259
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    Default Re: GM food.. yes or no?

    Transgenic foods are capable of massing with our bodies and the ecosystem in huge ways.

    Monsanto is in my opinion the most dangerous corporation on the planet.

  10. #260
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: GM food.. yes or no?

    I would be happier about GM research if it were driven by philanthropy rather than the profit motive. "Terminator technology", for example, is rather disturbing.

    It has been argued, too, that the problem of world hunger could be better addressed through improving food distribution than through GM technology. (ETA there is an Oxfam paper discussing this idea http://www.oxfam.org.uk/what_we_do/i...e/trade_gm.htm - EagainTA that the paper is rather old though)

  11. #261
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    Default Re: GM food.. yes or no?

    I think this is a really important issue of for vegans because of the focus on carbon footprint. "What If.." people ate less meat (hurrah) and ate locally grown animals in better conditions and slaughtered locally - how would that compare with importing the tonnes of pulses required to make soya products, lentils and beans etc for protein? If our climate is not conducive to growing these products, but could be made to be able to grow here if modified, then how would we respond to people who said that meat was a better carbon footprint option in this scenario?

    I never want to eat animal products again, and certainly not in my grains. How do they get teh cells to put in them? I'm sure they don't ask the animal to voluntarily give them as an act of charity, so surely some animals have suffered in simply making these animalveggies, not to mention all the forcefeeding of the final product to animals to make sure it's safe for humans (I climb trees in order to check travel conditions. Logical isn't it)

  12. #262
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    Default Re: GM food.. yes or no?

    It depends a lot on how they are modifying the crops as to how evil it is.

    Modifying crops to be pesticide resistant is bad, as that means that farmers will use more pesticides. The consumer (and the environment) is exposed to more toxins here.

    Modifying crops to grow more quickly and or have higher yields is bad if the crops have less nutrients. The consumer is ripped off here.

    On the other hand, creating GM crops that are able to effectively desalinate soil, or that can reverse desertification, or help hold topsoil together to prevent mudslides. With careful testing and use, these would be a great help.

    The difference is basically that you can use GM crops to generate increased revenue, or you can use them to really try and help solve massive problems.

    The big myth is that GM crops will feed the starving billions. They won't. There is already enough food to feed everyone in the world (for the moment at least). It's a question of getting food to those that need it.

    Of course, as bio-fuel demand rises, and meat consumption in the developing world increases, there will be a food shortage - but it won't be one that Round-Up Ready crops will be able to fix.
    "Danger" could be my middle name … but it's "John"

  13. #263
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    Default Re: GM food.. yes or no?

    Quote Pob View Post
    The difference is basically that you can use GM crops to generate increased revenue, or you can use them to really try and help solve massive problems.

    The big myth is that GM crops will feed the starving billions. They won't. There is already enough food to feed everyone in the world (for the moment at least). It's a question of getting food to those that need it.

    Of course, as bio-fuel demand rises, and meat consumption in the developing world increases, there will be a food shortage - but it won't be one that Round-Up Ready crops will be able to fix.
    Wow Pob you know your GM stuff as well as how to make lovely pastry
    Yes, I'd missed out the biofuel one, another potentially enormous pressure that, like feeding the starving, is about distribution and use, not quantity produced.

    The key point for me though is your point on how they are to be used. For me it often feels very simple - if you have social enterprise, it has to balance social/ethical/environment aims with profit. With profit driven companies, they balance profit with profit. Seeing as GM biotech companies are not about to go all fluffy on us, I am cynical enough to believe that whatever they say about world peace and poverty, they'll go for profit every time and stuff the starving (or not as the case may be)

  14. #264
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    Default Re: GM food.. yes or no?

    Quote Greenspecs
    Seeing as GM biotech companies are not about to go all fluffy on us, I am cynical enough to believe that whatever they say about world peace and poverty, they'll go for profit every time and stuff the starving (or not as the case may be)
    Bingo. Monsanto et al aren't about to save the world. They're already creating seeds that don't propagate themselves so farmers in India have to buy Monsanto GM seeds and pesticides off of them for all eternity, especially as the Monsanto GM seeds can live in the pesticides but normal plants cannot.
    GM is not about to save the world, it's about to give GM companies massive profits and continue the status quo of screwing over the poor for as long as possible to stay as wealthy as possible.
    If a GM crop that, as Pob mentioned, could grow in poor soil or resist drought was created, and was designed to help rather than restrict the poor then I'm all for it. But the likelihood of that is so slim it's laughable.

  15. #265
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    Default Re: GM food.. yes or no?

    Please, everyone RUN out and get this movie. Here is a trailer. It's called The Future of Food. It will enlighten you and scare the crap out of you at the same time! My husband brought it home and we watched it - scary stuff. GM foods are really dangerous.

  16. #266
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    Default Re: GM food.. yes or no?

    Oh forgot to add that all of this big business is really f***ing with farmers. Farmers are in a bad, bad way.

  17. #267
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    Default Re: GM food.. yes or no?

    I personally would be wary of GM foods, but some GM crops can be really useful. eg. using GM crops to produce insulin and other essential medicines.

    I don't think GM is inherently bad, it's just misused.

    Also, I googled for GM plants for reversing desertification. They do exist! The Chinese have been using them. That's the other option I guess - make them in a country with a weak stance on intellectual property

    I haven't read up on that yet, though, so it might all have gone horribly wrong and we're about to get attacked by 20 foot tall walking plants that can cross deserts and oceans
    "Danger" could be my middle name … but it's "John"

  18. #268
    Creative Raven HappyVegan's Avatar
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    Default Re: GM food.. yes or no?

    Quote button View Post
    Please, everyone RUN out and get this movie. Here is a trailer. It's called The Future of Food. It will enlighten you and scare the crap out of you at the same time! My husband brought it home and we watched it - scary stuff. GM foods are really dangerous.
    Is there anything overly graphic in the film Button? Like slaughterhouse footage or anything? It sounds like a wonderful film and I would love to watch it but I can't handle anything too graphic .

  19. #269
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    Default Re: GM food.. yes or no?

    Nope, nothing too graphic at all. It is kind of depressing though.

  20. #270
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    Default Re: GM food - yes or no?

    Thank you! I kind of thought from the preview that it would be safe but wanted to double check just to make sure. I can't handle depressing, I just can't handle seeing animals being tortured. Thanks for getting back to me so quickly. I'm going to start looking for it now .

  21. #271
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    Default Re: GM food.. yes or no?

    Quote Pob View Post
    I haven't read up on that yet, though, so it might all have gone horribly wrong and we're about to get attacked by 20 foot tall walking plants that can cross deserts and oceans
    Ha Ha! John Wyndham (is that right?) was not far wrong then.

    I agree with you and AMF that provided things are used to help then I feel able to support them - I guess there may be a long road ahead though in e-mailing, petition signing etc to try to influence the more pernicious activities like the post about having to buy seeds and pesticides FOR EVER from these companies

  22. #272
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    Default Re: GM food - yes or no?

    I just found The Future of Food by Deborah Garcia on Google Video. Here's the link.
    Please check it out!!

    Oh and HappyVegan - no problem!

  23. #273
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    Default Re: GM food - yes or no?

    I just finished watching it and it's an amazing yet frightening film. I wish I could find a way to make everyone (at least in the US) watch it. I don't think the average person has any idea how dangerous this is or how far it's come already.

  24. #274
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    Default Re: GM food - yes or no?

    Thanks Pob for giving examples.
    Mutation is not uncommon, and the world abounds with organisms which hinder humankind.
    I think genetic modification of plants is a fantastic idea. A vat full of algae exuding essential fatty acids, prostaglandins, vitamins, proteins, and all manna of replacement molecules ranks with the tokamak on my list of things to provide for.
    Let us separate making what we need in a cruelty free and non polluting way from
    that to which power abusing humans subject their victims.
    Sure we need to consider the consequences of encouraging destructive organisms [like weeds, diseases, pestilence, demons, and cats ] but we do that anyway.
    Problematic is waking someone whom pretends to sleep.

  25. #275
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Genetically Modified Organisms (GMO)

    Donald Watson (one of the founders of The Vegan Society) on GMO:

    Q: What are your views on genetically modified organisms?
    A: As the old saying has it, if a thing seems too good to be true, it probably is too good to be true, and I'm sure this is a classic example, quite apart from the irreversible genetic nature of what is our basic food supply in the future.

  26. #276

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    Default Re: Vegan Society GM Policy?

    Quote Roxy View Post
    Monsanto are pure evil. I base this on everything that I have read about them.
    Kind of late but, amen to that

  27. #277
    Jon Cousins
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    Default Re: Vegan Society GM Policy?

    Hi,
    It has been a long time since anyone posted onto this thread. I am still boycotting the Vegan Society because of their GMO policy as it stood in 2003.
    My question is has the Vegan Society changed it GMO Policy or is it still pro GMOs if they do not contain animal genes?
    I believe this is disgraceful. GMOs are a Vegan Issue even if they are purely constructed from different plants and bacteria.
    The animals that are fed GMO bt maze have no say in the matter, just as animals experimented on in labs. But because bt maze is made from corn and bacteria genes that is alright is it? NOT IN MY UNDERSTANDING OF VEGAN
    Why is no one interested in this????

  28. #278
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    Default Re: Vegan Society GM Policy?

    How are you boycotting the vegan society? Just by not being a member or not buying any products with their logo?
    "I don't want to live on this planet any more" - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth

  29. #279
    Jon Cousins
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    Default Re: Vegan Society GM Policy?

    I had been a member and supporter of the UK Vegan Society for many years, but in 2003 - when I worked out that the wording of the Society's GMO policy was pro GMOs created using plant and bacteria genes - I contacted Rick Savage direct and asked him why the Society would endorse products that contained GMOs. The reply I got - which was that the Society considered GMOs produced without animal genes to be a suitable part of a Vegan diet - gave me no other option but to resign my membership.

    How can we be ethical about food and the society that is supposed to represent us is pro Bio-tech companies like Monsanto? It would be like endorsing Huntingdon Life Sciences ... If you don't think so take a look at Monsanto's track record of human and animal and environmental welfare.
    Aren't Vegans supposed to be concerned about "People, Animals and the Environment" ?

    Bio-tech companies will destroy our Vegan lifestyle if unchallenged by Vegans and the groups representing us - both formally through groups like the Vegan Society and personally by our direct action. Bio-tech companies are not concerned where they get their genetic material and what they put it into: Q. When is a potato not a potato? A. When it’s partly a scorpion ...

    I no longer use the Vegan symbol as an indicator of what to buy. My diet is 90% fresh UK Soil Association Organic Vegetables from local producers, and a small quantity of UK Cert. Soil Association canned fruit and vegetables.
    As the Vegan Society tend to endorse processed foods, I don't generally buy items they endorse.

    My boycott is therefore a membership one, as this is the only way an individual like me can have an impact on them. So long as they support GMOs, I can not support them.

    Hope this answers your question.

  30. #280
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegan Society GM Policy?

    The reply I got - which was that the Society considered GMOs produced without animal genes to be a suitable part of a Vegan diet - gave me no other option but to resign my membership.
    Are you sure they said this... or could it be that they meant that GMO food as such isn't necessarily non-vegan? Are they really pro GMO, or are they only trying to be neutral?

  31. #281
    Jon Cousins
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    Default Re: Vegan Society GM Policy?

    I'm not sure what the current UK Vegan Society GMO Policy is. Can anyone advise?

    Yes I did ask Rick Savage if their GMO policy ment that the Vegan Society would endorse plant/bacteria based GMO products, and although he didn't like it, he had to admit they would.

    I don't feel endorsing GMOs is a neutral position. Do you?

  32. #282
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegan Society GM Policy?

    I wouldn't endorse GMOs - the question is if the UK VS actually are endorsing GMOs, or if they say that GMO/non-GMA isn't a vegan/non-vegan topic.

  33. #283
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    Default Re: Vegan Society GM Policy?

    I don't like to consume artificial food coloring (although I do on occasion) simply because I question whether it is healthy or not. But I want the vegan society to tell me if the artificial coloring (and foods) I'm eating are derived from animals and nothing more. I don't want to know if they think it's good for my health or not. Similarly, I don't want anyone's selective politics to enter into whether a food is "vegan" or not.

    Was it made in a country with human rights violations? Doesn't matter. Does the food cause cancer? Doesn't matter. Does the company that makes it use environmentally friendly light bulbs to light the factory? Doesn't matter. Does the company waste fresh water? Immaterial. How does the company stand on equal opportunity employment? abortion? gun control? the death penalty? None of these things have anything to do with whether the food they produce is vegan or not.

    As for "but they tested their food on animals, that makes it not vegan", wouldn't the same be true for most new foods and medicines invented in the past almost century or so? The example of car safety belts mentioned earlier is a perfect example. I can't use safety belts, contact lenses, etc because they were tested in a manner I wouldn't approve of? Sure I wish they used some other non-animal tests but I also wish the company that makes my vegan tofu didn't feed their employees hamburgers for lunch. Should I consider the tofu not vegan? The early space industry sent dogs and monkeys up into space before humans and they met a terrible fate. Should vegans boycott all industries and products born out of the space industry? Velcro? GPS? satellite weather maps? satellite TV? Internet and telephone satellite communication?

    There may be dozens of reasons why one should boycott a company, but keep the definition of "vegan" distinct. The Vegan Society insists GMO foods can only be made from plant and bacteria DNA samples, not animal, to be "allowed". Saying they "endorse" GMOs would be reading into things, IMHO.

  34. #284
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    Default Re: Vegan Society GM Policy?

    Well said Mahk.

    It would appear that Jon has an unhealthy obsession with the Vegan Society!

    Jon :

    "I only buy soil association organic, local fruit and veg form small scale suppliers - as a vegan this seems to be my only option."

    From the Soil Association website :

    Farmers cannot use meat, blood, bone, hoof and horn meals on the land, but they can add it to compost for use in pots to grow plants from seeds. However this can only be used on farms where there are no cattle or sheep.

    Farmers can also use the waste wool left after shearing sheep, but only if this will not come into direct contact with the crop, and lime from sugar production.

    In compost for growing seeds, in glasshouses or for plants that live for more than one growing season, farmers can use fishmeal as a fertiliser.

    http://www.soilassociation.org/web/s...8a80257149004c
    b42b?OpenDocument

    So as the Soil Association allows the usage of meat, blood, bone, hoof and horn meals, waste wool and fishmeal to be used in conjunction with their 'organic symbol' - are you now going to boycott the Soil Association marked produce too?

    If not, then why not? Surely the usage of all the above is against any usage of the term 'vegan' including your own 'expanded' term?

    Also, if not then you must understand my usage of the term 'unhealthy obsession' in my reply above.

    "The feeding of animals GMOs (from whatever origin); is it exploitation or cruelty?"

    Okay. Surely the feeding of anything to farm animals to make them achieve slaughter weight is both exploitation and cruelty? Are you now going to boycott anything fed to farmed animals (ie corn, wheat, soya, etc)?

    "Or does it become a separate issue from veganism if the Society suffers loss of revenue."

    Your unhealthy obsession is leading you to make deliberately misleading points about the vegan society. Have you noticed in the news they've removed their trademark from Ecover because of their policies? Surely this should be ample evidence that they don't put revenues above principles?

    In light of this, are you now going to withdraw your above remark ?

    "What next? endorsement of animal products that come from creatures which have died of natural causes? I could very easily argue for that one if my motivation was income... Seems a bit dodgy to me."

    As above, the withdrawal of the trademark from Ecover shows how wide of the mark these obsessed comments are.

    "NOT IN MY UNDERSTANDING OF VEGAN"

    Your understanding of vegan incorporates GMO which no other defintion of vegan seems to do. To foment a minority view and use this as a basis for obsession is not healthy.

    "which was that the Society considered GMOs produced without animal genes to be a suitable part of a Vegan diet"

    I doubt very much the phrase 'suitable part of' was used. As exampled above, you make insinuations which real world events (Ecover) prove completely untrue, I have no doubt you would choose to remember a phone conversation from years ago in a manner which was useful to you.

    "As the Vegan Society tend to endorse processed foods, I don't generally buy items they endorse."

    I think the term is 'register' as a vegan product, not 'endorse' or 'recommend' to vegans. Again, your bigotry and bias shows through.

    Some questions for you :

    You state you were a vegan society member. Did you ever attend an AGM to try get your views on GMOs adopted by the members as policy? If not, then why not if it is of such importance to you?

    You keep blaming the society as an entity for it's policies, yet the plain fact is that members attending AGMs formulate and vote on these policies, so the policy on GMO is that which was voted on and accepted by the members at the particular AGM.

    You state you were a member of the society at this time, did you attend the AGM?

  35. #285
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    Default Re: Vegan Society GM Policy?

    every seed is GMO now .. I cant say my sources..
    you cant get away from GM foods..

  36. #286
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    Default Re: Vegan Society GM Policy?

    I have been assured by someone who works for the Vegan Society that they have not registered any products containing GMOs and that it's very unlikely that they will as companies who produce foods containing GMOs don't fulfil the Vegan Society critera because they test on animals. In the extremely unlikely event that the Vegan Society did register something the product would be clearly labled so it could be avoided by those who disagree with GMOs.

    If anyone feels that strongly about the issue they should bring it up at the next AGM and propose that the current stance of registering products containing GMOs be overturned and you can't do that by not being a member The Vegan Society is a democratic organisation and does what the majority of it members who vote at AGMs want. If you want your views to be heard and you want a say in how the society is run you have to be a member to take part in the decision making process and then you can propose ideas and vote at AGMs. As far as I can see this is not the fault of the Vegan Society as all thay have done, is what they must do, and implement a proposal that the majority of voters wanted.

  37. #287
    Jon Cousins
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    Default Re: Vegan Society GM Policy?

    I am very happy that 'it is very unlikely' that the Vegan Society would register products containing GMOs.

    To me this is not as useful as 'WOULD NEVER', and I fully appreciate that many many Vegans disagree with me.

    No, I have never attended an AGM of the Vegan Society.

    Any concerns I have about the Soil Association are different to those around the Vegan Society's GMO policy, because the Soil Association are not promoting Veganism.

    I wonder what the Vegan Organic Network make of all this?

    My obsession comes from wanting to be able to eat. "All seed is GM" maybe truer than we would like to think.

    It is very upsetting.

  38. #288
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    Default Re: Vegan Society GM Policy?

    Quote Jon Cousins View Post
    To me this is not as useful as 'WOULD NEVER', and I fully appreciate that many many Vegans disagree with me.
    I don't think many, many vegans do disagree with you, Jon, but I think many probably don't put it at the top of their things-to-get-upset-about list. If you want the society to refuse to register products containing GMOs completely the best way to try to realise that is to re-join and put forward the proposal at an AGM. If you put a convincing case forward as to why it's an very important vegan issue you might find that many people agree with you and will vote accordingly.

  39. #289
    Jon Cousins
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    Default Re: Vegan Society GM Policy?

    I have stated over the course of this Thread why I feel the UK Vegan Society should change its GMO Policy (perhaps it already has - what is the wording of the current policy?). If not, if anyone who is currently a member of the UK Vegan Society feels that this is a valid request, and would like to table it as an agenda item to the AGM - please feel free to use any part of my argument from any previous message.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Veganism is not a 'diet', it is a 'philosophy' / it is not just concerned about the exploitation of animals for 'food', it is concerned about the exploitation of animals for 'food, clothing or any other purpose' / it is not just about 'animals', it is about 'humans, animals and the environment.'
    http://www.vegansociety.com/html/dow...ssociation.pdf

  40. #290
    Mahk
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    Default Re: Vegan Society GM Policy?

    I would assume this Vegan Society page that I took this quote from is still the current policy:

    "In keeping with its vegan ethic, the Vegan Society is totally against the use of animal genes or animal substances in the development and production of GMOs.

    The Vegan Society believes that all foods that contain, may contain, or have involved GMOs should be clearly labeled.

    In addition any product must also meet the Society's Criteria for Vegan Food . Products carrying the Society's trademark can contain GMOs [emphasis mine], but must be clearly labeled and comply with the definition above."


    My interpretation from this is they believe GMOs are allowed only if they are not from animal genes or substances, but instead from plant and bacteria sources. Exactly as I think it should be, and I agree that GMO food should be clearly labeled as well but thats not a vegan issue. It's a side issue. I feel the same way about irradiated food. Vegan food is about whether animals were used or not, not if the food is good for you or the environment. Those are different issues.

  41. #291
    Willowherb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegan Society GM Policy?

    Quote Jon Cousins View Post
    I have stated over the course of this Thread why I feel the UK Vegan Society should change its GMO Policy (perhaps it already has - what is the wording of the current policy?). If not, if anyone who is currently a member of the UK Vegan Society feels that this is a valid request, and would like to table it as an agenda item to the AGM - please feel free to use any part of my argument from any previous message.

    You obviously feel very strongly about this issue but seem very reluctant to actually do anything about it yourself. You can only bring about change if you are actively involved and that means re-joining the society and bringing up the issue at an AGM yourself. Why wait for someone else to do it for you?

  42. #292
    Jon Cousins
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    Default Re: Vegan Society GM Policy?

    I'm not waiting. As stated in the first message on this thread, I would like to know what other Vegans think about the UK Vegan Society's GM Policy and whether it would be better worded thus:

    "Genetically Modified products or products containing Genetically Modified ingredients are not acceptable to the Vegan Society because the Society believes it is impossible to guarantee that such products are completely in accordance with the Society's vegan principles."

    Personally, I feel it was wrong to support a group that would put their logo on food containing GMOs - whatever their origin.

    I feel this as someone finding it harder to eat, because I am Vegan.

    This is a Vegan issue - There is no going back once there are animal genes mixed into plants, to quote Donald Watson: "the irreversible genetic nature of what is our basic food supply in the future." The same bio-tech companies that create animal/plant/bacteria GMOs create plant/bacteria GMOs. It is really that simple to me.

    I must say it feels strange to be challenged by other Vegans over this. To be accused of having 'unhealthy obsessions', or that things not directly related to 'animals' are things that do not matter.

  43. #293
    steven1222
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    Default Re: Vegan Society GM Policy?

    Quote Jon Cousins View Post
    or that things not directly related to 'animals' are things that do not matter.
    It is not that they do not matter. It is that they should not be integrated into a definition of 'vegan' or whether or not a product can be certified as vegan. You seem to see no difference there.

  44. #294
    Willowherb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegan Society GM Policy?

    Quote Jon Cousins
    This is a Vegan issue - There is no going back once there are animal genes mixed into plants, to quote Donald Watson: "the irreversible genetic nature of what is our basic food supply in the future." The same bio-tech companies that create animal/plant/bacteria GMOs create plant/bacteria GMOs. It is really that simple to me.

    I must say it feels strange to be challenged by other Vegans over this. To be accused of having 'unhealthy obsessions', or that things not directly related to 'animals' are things that do not matter.
    I hope you don't think I was challenging you over the issue of GMOs, Jon, as it's a very important issue and does matter. All I was trying to point out is I thought that the Vegan Society had been put into a difficult position by some of it's members (it was a member who made the proposal and members who voted yes to it) and it would be a good idea if it was you who brought up the issue again at an AGM, but if you feel you can't re-join the society again, that's that. I did think the 'unhealthy obsession' comment directed at you was unnecessary.

  45. #295
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    Default Re: Vegan Society GM Policy?

    "Any concerns I have about the Soil Association are different to those around the Vegan Society's GMO policy, because the Soil Association are not promoting Veganism.

    I wonder what the Vegan Organic Network make of all this?

    My obsession comes from wanting to be able to eat." - from Jon's post of 20/8 above.

    This is very interesting. I bought "Growing Green" by Hall & Tolhurst, published by the VON. The Stockfree-Organic Standard by the Soil Association is very rigorous and challenging; I certainly have had to do some thinking. My conclusion so far has been to "think global and act local" and to try to bring the few square metres of my garden up to the Standard. It's very far from enough to feed me all year, but it does make a good contribution for a few weeks of the year. Using raised beds with close spacing and weeding by hand, the yields are higher (per square metre) than they would be for a commercial grower.

  46. #296

    Default Re: What is wrong with GMO's?

    Quote veganblue View Post
    I think this is an issue that is of interest to at least a few and maybe worth reviving. Some starter topics;

    What is it about a GMO that you wouldn't want to eat it?
    The risk that it will do some harm to me or my children.
    Are there any circumstances where GM is worthwhile?
    Yes.
    Would you consider wearing a product that was made from GMO's - for example a plant the instead of producing just cellulose, produced silkworm silk fibres?
    Yes, as long as doesn't involve continuing suffering of silkworms. (for example to make seeds of that plant, silkworms will need to be killed permanently)
    What is your opinion on flu vaccines developed via GM technology?
    Would you eat a GM fruit if it contained B12?
    Positive, as long as continuing suffering of other animals is not involved to create it.
    Remember, the technology is currently well within the reach of science now.
    I know

  47. #297
    DavidT's Avatar
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    Default Re: Genetically Modified Organisms (GMO)

    American doctors call for GMO ban

    "GM foods pose a serious health risk in the areas of toxicology, allergy and immune function, reproductive health, and metabolic, physiologic and genetic health."
    This is, unfortunately, based upon animal studies of the effect of GMOs.

    We're a dangerous species.

  48. #298
    DavidT's Avatar
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    Default Re: Genetically Modified Organisms (GMO)

    Please support this action against pro-GMO people being placed in charge of food safety in America if you can.

    http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o...aign_KEY=27042
    "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

  49. #299
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    Default and who said chickens were stupid?

    From the South African Sunday Independent:

    Chickens refusing to eat the maize they had been fed has led to the discovery that their feed had been genetically modified to include a well-known weed and insect killer. Strilli Oppenheimer was recently approached by Dawid Klopper, the head gardener at the family estate, Brenthurst, informing her that her indigenous African chickens were refusing to eat the mealies in the chicken feed bought from a large supplier. Concerned that the birds may be ingesting genetically modified maize, she instructed Klopper to have the maize tested.

    The chickens' diet was immediately changed to include organic vegetables, Oppenheimer stopped consuming the home-grown eggs and the maize was sent to the GMO testing facility at the University of the Free State for analysis. The results confirmed Oppenheimer's initial suspicion - the maize had been genetically engineered to produce proteins that are toxic to certain insects and weeds.

    "It contained BT1 which makes the maize insect resistant, as well as Roundup which makes it weed resistant. This is the first report we have had of chickens not eating GM feed," said a GM expert.

    While small quantities of BT1 and Roundup weed killer were found in the seeds, the concern remained with the cumulative effect of GM feed, not only on the chickens, but also on the eggs they produced for the family.

    "This is of serious concern. Do you know that 96 percent of soya-based foods are genetically modified and that maize in South Africa is contaminated," asked Oppenheimer, pointing out that research by well-known scientist Dr Arpad Pusztai had shown that rats fed on GM potatoes suffered from a weakened immune system and stunted growth of their internal organs, including the liver, kidneys and brain.

    Pusztai was fired by the Rowett Research Institute in the UK in 1998 after his research into the human nutritional consequences of GM. His findings had far-reaching implications for the biotech industry, which had contended that GM crops and products would not adversely affect human health. International research has shown a direct link between certain types of genetic engineering and cancer.

    Gundula Azeez and Coilin Nunan of The Soil Association, a UK environmental charity, stated in their paper, "GM Crops - the health effects", that international research had shown that milk, eggs and meat from GM-fed animals contained GM crop DNA, concluding that it was likely that people were frequently being exposed to GM DNA. They concluded that because of the lapses in extensive safety assessments, there were "very good scientific reasons for being concerned about the safety of GM crops".

    Rose Williams, acting director of Biowatch, said globally there was great concern that GM products had not been adequately tested in terms of their effect on people, animals and the environment.

    "There has been no testing on humans, very limited testing on animals and very little research on environmental impacts. This is the case globally, but in South Africa even less work has been done, even though the commercial release of GM maize, GM soya and GM cotton has been approved."

    Williams said concerns by NGOs such as Biowatch, the African Centre for Biosafety and SAFeAGE about the lack of control over GM crops and contamination of non-GM crops had largely been ignored.

    "Government has not done enough to protect the public from the potential threats of GM foods. There is also the matter of liability - who will take responsibility for people's losses and any health problems relating to consumption of GM foods, whether they are for people or for animals." Williams said the contamination of non-GM crops was a real problem, with the biotech industry leading people to believe that co-existence of GM and non-GM crops was possible. "But it is not," she said.

    While the recently implemented Consumer Protection Act called for the labelling of GM foods, the regulations linked to the measure had yet to be finalised. About her chickens' refusal to eat their maize, Oppenheimer said: "They're smart."
    "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

  50. #300
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    Default Re: Genetically Modified Organisms (GMO)

    From here. A very American type of appointment.

    The Government's push on GM coincides with the decision to appoint former Labour minister and GM supporter Lord Rooker as chairman of the Food Standards Agency

    It is about to launch a 12-month campaign to persuade the public to accept GM.
    Quote Claire Oxborrow
    Ministers are still fixated on genetic modification but this isn't a solution - GM crops do not have higher yields and the mythical drought and salt resistant crops still exist only as expensive PR promises rather than commercial reality.
    "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

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