Health arguments against dairy products

[Kiva Dancer]

I don't know if it's fact or not, but I do know it seperates into different coloured looking layers in the jug and one layer looks pink and one looks yellow.

[Suzulan]

I found it.
http://www.kraigslist.org/?q=node/73...a8bec57cc22dea

[cinchybell]

Here is an answer to the pus question...

Yep, that is disgusting!!!!!!!!

http://www.milksucks.com/pus.html

[Mozbee]

I don't crave cows milk, but I do wish someone would create some nice vegan toffees!

Peta have some great off shoot websites, like milk sucks!, in support of cows there's also this.

[Korn]

Here's a new interview from NewsTarget, with Robert Cohen, the man behind notmilk.com. Now, maybe I shouldn't post links to his stuff because he also is the guy who claims that the guy behind veganoutreach.com is an infiltrator in the vegan movement, and I don't want to participate in that discussion, but the interview with the 'notmilk-man' is interesting, so here is the link:

http://www.newstarget.com/002695.html

An excerpt:

Mike Adams: What is it that drove you to have this kind of interest and energy to pursue the truth about milk and dairy products?

Robert Cohen: Three little girls named Jennifer, Sarah, and Lizzie -- my daughters. I wanted them to have healthy bodies. I wanted them not to live four years of high school life with zits all over their body like their dad did. And you know something? They've been zit free! No acne, and if you look at my book, Milk A to Z, I take every letter of the alphabet and fill in something about milk. Z is for zits, and we know that these cows are actually being milked before they give birth, and that milk is different milk -- it's milk instructing mammary tissue to grow. Little girls have changed these days, but we find that with the secretion of all of these androgens, the cows are constantly using the androgens to produce other hormones. Teenage acne is improved the second we give up milk. It takes a couple of weeks, and the acne's gone. And these androgens stimulate the sebaceous glands, which are the glands that cause the acne, cause the zits.

So we find a dairy link to a number of human conditions. And I'm not the first to say this -- Dr. Spock said this. Dr. Spock sold 75 million copies of his book on child care. The only book that sold more than Dr. Spock's book in history is the Bible. Dr. Spock said that no human, no child, no adult needs cow's milk -- it's a deception on the government's part to promote. And we're learning, as I've said, more doctors are learning today something they were not taught in medical school. You want to look at the etiology of allergies and diabetes? You look at diabetes, you look at the New England Journal of Medicine, July 31, 1992 -- right there, you can look it up! It said that exposure to these bovine proteins, bovine serum lactobumin is a trigger for insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus, and a few months later, October of '92, Scientific America talked about the dairy slogan,"Milk, it does a body good." It said, "Milk, it does a body good -- it sounds a little hollow these days."

Mike Adams: Can you give a brief summary of -- you've mentioned a few here, diabetes and acne, heart disease is mentioned in your book quite prominently -- but what other chronic diseases are, say, aggravated or even caused by chronic milk consumption?

Robert Cohen: Well, you know, that's an interesting question. Let's look at the Big Five -- in America, the number one killer is heart disease, and then we've got osteoporosis and cancer, and diabetes and asthma. We look at nations where they drink milk, we find these diseases are common. We look at nations where cheese consumption has tripled in the last 30 years, like England and France and Canada and the United States, we find also a tripling of asthma and breast cancers. Guess what country has the highest rate of breast cancer? Number one in breast cancer rate, Denmark, followed by Norway, followed by Holland, followed by Sweden -- are you detecting a trend?

[tails4wagging]

Children with juvenile excema improves when they come off dairy milk and also this cow excretion cause excess mucus.

I am sure I read somewhere that there is a correlation between breast cancer and testicular cancer due to the cows milk growth stimulating hormone adding to the human growth stimulating hormones in the breast and testicles, so all that energy of these hormones create cancer.

Has anyone got this info, to hand as I would like to print it off?.

[Kim[ba]]

Right! It is amazing -- so often, people go to their doctor and they get drugs, just to mask the symptoms caused by simple dietary choices.

Well, that was very well said

And milk, white milk, is actually dead white blood cells, and they're somatic cells, or pus cells.

That's really really really gross

[Oceanwave]

In my family, most women are suffering from arthritis since their 30's, that was my case. Since i completely stopped dairies 6 months ago (my natural medecine doctor already told me to stop them 2 years ago / but it was an hard habit to quit / because she was sure they were the cause of the disease in my case) , I can tell you I have no more pain in my fingers & hands.

[adam antichrist]

New study shows that not only is milk unnatural, but dangerous for children.

The study was designed to examine dairy industry suggestions that drinking milk promotes weight loss, the Boston-based scientists said. Instead, they found that drinking more milk leads to overweight among teens, although those who became overweight drank more than is recommended by the National Dairy Council's dairy promotion campaign.

Of 13000 children examined in an observational study, almost one quarter of boys and 15% of girls drank "more than three serves per day" and on average were prone to weight gain and obesity.

[Pilaf]

Hah... my obese brother chugs down about a half gallon a day, bragging about how strong his bones are compared to mine..... it's amazing how complete the brainwashing of the Dairy industry is.

[Korn]

From http://www.vegansworldnetwork.org/he...005-0511c.html

Risk of Prostate Cancer from Dairy Consumption Overshadows Alleged Diabetes Prevention


News Release - Wednesday, May 11, 2005


Doctors Analyze New Study on Dairy and Diabetes

WASHINGTON—The alleged link between dairy consumption and diabetes prevention is tenuous and not worth the risk of prostate cancer and other well-established dairy dangers, say doctors and nutrition scientists at the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM). PCRM is responding to a new study by Choi et al., “Dairy Consumption and Risk of Type 2 Diabetes Mellitus in Men,” appearing this month in the Archives of Internal Medicine. The increased risk of prostate cancer associated with dairy intake is highlighted in the editorial published alongside the new study.

“Few men will leap at the chance of possibly preventing diabetes if it means taking on the risk of prostate cancer,” says Tim Radak, R.D., Dr.P.H., nutrition director for PCRM. Milk often contains estrogens and it increases levels of a hormone called insulin-like growth factor I, both of which may stimulate cancer cells in the prostate and other areas. High-fiber foods are the true key to preventing diabetes and overweight. The lowest rates of type 2 diabetes occur in Asian countries where traditional diets are rich in high-fiber foods and dairy products are uncommon.

Three of the researchers on the current study previously published an article on the same group of subjects, the Harvard Health Professionals Follow-up Study, and they found there is a 60 percent greater risk of prostate cancer for men who drink more than two glasses of milk per day, compared to none at all. In a related study, the Harvard Physicians’ Health Study, researchers also concluded that dairy products and calcium are associated with a higher risk of prostate cancer.

For an interview with Dr. Radak, please contact Jeanne S. McVey at 202-686-2210, ext. 316 or 415-509-1833.

Founded in 1985, the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine is a nonprofit health organization that promotes preventive medicine, especially good nutrition. PCRM also conducts clinical research studies, opposes unethical human experimentation, and promotes alternatives to animal research.


For information about nutrition and health, please visit http://www.pcrm.org
Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine 5100 Wisconsin Ave., Suite 400
Washington, DC 20016

[tails4wagging]

This just backs up what I have read before. Growth stimulating hormones in dairy milk is added to human growth stimulating hormones and all that excess energy going on can cause cancer in those areas where that hormone is present.

[Korn]

An excerpt from http://www.veganviews.org.uk/vv100/v...anconcept.html

The Vegan Concept
by Arthur Ling (Plamil Foods), Vegan Views 100 (Spring 2004)
Composition of Milk Differs for Each Species

Philosophy

A vegan is logical in stating that cow's milk was never meant for humans. Milk is a food secreted by female mammals to ensure that their offspring adjust from the womb to the outside world. The milk for each species of mammal is nutritionally tailored to its particular nutritional needs. THE EARLY DEVELOPMENT OF COWS AND HUMANS IS QUITE DIFFERENT. When a calf is born it must quickly build a strong bone structure in order to stand and move about. Cow's milk, richer in protein, minerals and fats than human milk, is designed to promote this. The greatest early development in humans, however, is not in bone and muscle, but in the nervous system. Human milk is therefore rich in easily digestible fats intended to build up the nervous system. It contains lighter, more digestible protein than cow's milk, and is sweeter and more alkaline.



Time by which weight is doubled / Calcium contained in 100 parts of milk

Human / 180 days / 0.032

Horse / 60 days / 0.124

Ox / 47 days / 0.160

Goat / 19 days / 0.210

Sheep / 10 days / 0.272

Dog / 8 days / 0.453

Rabbit / 7 days / 0.891


Ethics

The whole system of the dairy industry is unnatural and abhorrent. Dairy milk is based on a principle of cruelty and inhumane practice. Within a few days of birth, the majority of calves are sold through auctions or dealers and a few are slaughtered almost immediately. Some calves go (mostly for export with horrendous journeying) to be reared for veal or baby beef. The rest are reared for a year or longer after marketing as young calves to be killed for beef. Rennet (for cheese making) comes from the stomach of a newly born calf, which is slaughtered. Constant births are brought on by artificial insemination and higher and higher milk yields (for profit) are induced. All are forms of systematic exploitation without regard to the pain, anguish and distrust of the animals. All this in order that so-called civilised man may have ("steal" would be a better word) the milk, which unquestionably was meant for the calf and no other species.

This is explained in more detail. The heifer (female calf) will give birth to her first calf when she is approximately two year of age. Her calf is then taken away from her a day or two after birth. About 10% of calves die before they are six months old. The heifer, developed for high milk yields, is then milked to capacity up to 45/50 litres (10/11 gallons) per day – ten times the amount a calf would drink. The heifer is milked for ten months after her calf's birth. During this time she is already pregnant, having been artificially inseminated, and she is only rested for a scant few weeks before her next calf is born. The heifer is put in calf about 12 weeks after the birth of her calf, so she gives birth to a calf every year. The dual burden of pregnancy and lactation makes the heifer susceptible to disease – mastitis in particular, an infection of the udder, which occurs in one out of every three of our cows. Every year over 17 million shots of antibiotics are administered into the udders of the our cows. Dairy cows are slaughtered at an early age – 25% before they are 3 years old. Only 25% live for more than seven years. A cow's natural life span is 20 years.

Harry Mather adds...

When Vegan Views first appeared calves were still allowed to be kept in boxes in which they were not able to turn round and were given feed devoid of iron so that their flesh would be white in order to satisfy the fancy of the consumer. As a result of strong campaigning, veal crates were made illegal in the U.K. in the 1990s.

Unfortunately veal crates were still being used in other European countries, and veal could still be found in eating places in Britain. The cruel trade of exporting small calves to the continent therefore continued and Compassion in World Farming organised demonstrations in Dover, Shoreham, Plymouth, Brightlingsea ports and at Coventry airport (where tragically Jill Phipps lost her life).

Although media coverage was extensive and strong and wide public sympathy was aroused, exports of live animals continued until the panic over BSE (mad cow disease) resulted in a ban on any cattle being imported into foreign countries and the trade ceased for more than a year until Britain was declared free of BSE.

The European Parliament has voted to ban the use of veal crates and we can hope that this cruel practice will eventually disappear. The surest way to end the cruelty involved would be for people to avoid the use of milk and milk products and to put an end to the false belief that consuming plenty of milk has a health benefit. For instance, the popular belief is that osteoporosis (brittle bone disease) can be avoided by consuming more milk when in fact the consumption of much milk may lead to an overacid diet which will result in the body leaching calcium from the bones and result in the very osteoporosis it is aimed to prevent.

There is also increasing evidence these days that a noticeable proportion of the population is allergic to milk because they have lost the lactase, the enzyme needed break down the lactose in milk This has been found in African populations where they do not normally consume milk after weaning and are unable to digest milk as adults.

[Steph]

Korn, thanks for the last article, I printed out a few copies for my sister (and family). Just tonight she was making snide comments when my mom was telling us at dinner that I was asking her what ingredients were in the brownies she made (first time ever she made delightful brownies with no eggs or dairy- they were a hit with everyone.) I think she is the most vociferous against veganism, because she loves animals especially birds (she has a parrot and cockatiel) and is struggling, yet can't seem to accept not to eat them and will not yet come to terms with a bird as a "pet" is the same as a wild bird ,is the same as the birds waiting to die in slaughter houses.

Anyways, she is mother to a 13 yr. old girl and 7 yr. old boy, and completely thinks they need milk/animal flesh for proper nutrition.

[eve]

US MILK MARKETERS TOLD TO MOO-VE OUT
Several marketers of dairy products in the US are expected to be served with lawsuits claiming they have engaged in false and misleading weight-loss marketing. The suits are likely to be regarded by food marketers as another skirmish in the long struggle on the obesity issue, in which some plaintiffs' lawyers want to haul Big Food down the same path as Big Tobacco.

The Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM) will file two suits, a class action on behalf of consumers and an individual action on behalf of a Virginia woman, according to Howard White, a PCRM spokesman. While large marketers routinely receive suits claiming they hurt the health of consumers, the difference here is that the PCRM has a record of inflicting serious pr damage on its targets. It was PCRM, for instance, which obtained a copy of the medical examiner's notes on the death of Dr Robert C Atkins, founder of the Atkins diet regime. The notes showed Atkins had coronary artery disease, PCRM claimed, a condition often brought on by eating too much meat and fat.

Full story:
http://www.brandweek.com/brandweek/h...ontent_id=1000

[gertvegan]

The Milkmyths website will be launched soon.

[RubyDuby]

Does anybody subscribe to Nutrition Action Healthletter? (very cheap, I love it) There was an article in it this month about the dairy industries false advertising. Here are some excerpts:

"The University of Tennessee nutrition researcher [Michael Zemel] comes armed with a few small studies in people, a book, plus an idea (plus a patent) for selling dairy foods that even he admits sounds 'pretty outrageous'- eating three servings of [dairy] each day can help dieters lose weight.
Nevermind that the studies are small and that no independent researchers have corrborated their findings. Producers have tons of milk and cheese to move.
Solution? Launch what the industry calls 'a full court press of marketing activities' to capitalize on the weight loss claim before the authorities catch up with you.
Hire the world's largest promotions agency. Pay celebrities like Dr. Phil McGraw to say in milk moustache ads that 'drinking milk can help you lose weight'. Give away 24 convertibles in 24 days to reinforce the idea that 24 ounces (3 cups) of milk every 24 hours melts away fat. Launch 'The Great American Weight Loss Challenge" a 12-week program centered around drinking 24 ounces of milk every day, and give $25,000 to the city that signs up the most dieters and $10,000 to a group that successfully completes the program.
And license Zemel's claim so that companies can use it to promote their dairy products for weight loss.
After two years and millions of dollars worth of advertising and giveaways, nearly half a million women say that they have heard that dairy foods help people lose weight.
If only there were sufficient evidence to back up the claim."

I'm going to paraphrase for a bit as its getting lengthy:

Zemel's studies looked at a total of only 46 people who recieved extra calcium from dairy and lacked a control group altogether. the federal gov't refused the dairy industry's request that the Guidelines recommend that ppl eat more dairy to lose weight. All of their other recommendations were based on multiple randomized controlled trials of hundreds of individuals. Zemel states that people can only lose weight by increasing their level of calcium to normal if they are already below normal, but does not know exactly what normal is. He defers to the official recommendations and claims the participants in his study began significantly below recommended calcium intake before beginning the study, however there is no blood work or other evidence to back up this claim. Nor did he test increasing calcium levels to normal with non-dairy sources. He has never tested the assumption that dairy has no effect if protein intakes are generous. In a Vermont study dieters got no more protien than in Zemel's study, and those who ate dairy lost no more than those who ate a placebo.
The dairy industry ads dont explain that Zemels research was done only on people who were overweight. Milk mustache ads show women who clearly do not need to lose weight.

"The bottom line: the dairy industry's multi-million-dollar ad campaign rests largely on how 46 [overweight] people reacted to eating more dairy foods in three small studies by one researcher with ties to the dairy industry."

"Starting in the 1980's congress set up 35 commodity "checkoff" programs that require food producers and processors to pool their money for advertising and promotion. [Beef. Its Whats For dinner., Pork. The Other White Meat., Got Milk? are examples of the program] The US Department of Agricultural Marketing Service (AMS) is supposed to oversee the programs and make sure the ads are not false or misleading. However, AMS standards are rather low. For example the AMS says that if the ad makes a claim about health, at least two published studies should support the claim. Yet it approved the dairy industries weight loss ads before the two controlled trials were published. (Three studies conducted by a scientist with ties to the dairy industry have now been published showing greater weight loss in people who eat 3 servings of dairy a day, but their results have been contradicted by independent researchers.)
Essentially, one arm of the USDA is promoting the consumption of dairy foods for weight loss, while a panel of nutrition experts appointed by the USDA and the department of Health and Human Services has concluded that their is too little evedence.... The USDA is speaking out of both sides of its mouth, and the side pushing milk, cheeses and yogurt is a lot louder.
The USDA has failed the public, as has the dairy industry."

"...the federal trade commision is reviewing the dairy ads...The Physicians Committee For Responsible Medicine - a group advocating animal rights, vegan diets, and better nutrition- has sued the three main dairy industry trade associations, as well as General Mills (which sells Yoplait), Kraft (which has dropped its ads), and Dannon, for deceptive adsvertising"


I was sooo disappointed yesterday when I saw an ad claiming yogurt will help you lose weight. I hope the court case is still on and we havent lost!!

[NumberSix]

Vitamin D is added to most milk. Vitamin D comes from various sources. Two sources I know of are the brain of animals and the skin of animals.

[andesuma]

I like this thread coz sometimes I get this rediculous urge to eat yoghurt- although I never do (I did once and I cried). Every time that happens from now on, I am going to read this thread.

Have you checked out Wildwood's soyogurt??(it's amazing!) or Whole Soy's??
here are some links..

www.wildwoodnaturalfoods.com
http://www.pmo.com/wildwood/
http://www.wholesoyco.com/

: )

[Korn]

[Kumem]

I thought this article was pretty interesting and contains a lot of documented studies on the damage from milk and other dairy products:

http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/MILK.HTM

[andesuma]

I just received an email from Robert Cohen, of NotMilk, of this article he wrote. I found it rather informative, and if any of you know of anyone
who has acid reflux, irritable bowl syndrom(which dairy is usually the culprit of..), or just needs a little wake up call that human beings drinking cows milk is just UNNATURAL. and WEIRD.
please read:

Got Heartburn? Digest This!

The National Heartburn Alliance is funded by companies selling
remedies for acid indigestion caused by hard to digest foods.

Their gut response to heartburn resulted in a recent press release
that linked food consumption with heartburn. The headline:

"25 Million Americans Suffer From Heartburn on a Daily Basis -
and Most Say The Foods They Eat Are to Blame!"

If you have heartburn, it's really no comfort in swallowing each
dose of their marketing with your doses of extra-strength Pepto
Bismol!

http://www.prnewswire.com/broadcast/..._consumer.html

My father used to experience heartburn. Gastric reflux. Indigestion.
That is, until he eliminated ice cream, cheesecake, sherbet, and his
traditional glass of milk after every meal.

Doctors convinced dad that there was something pathologically wrong
with
his stomach. Thousands of dollars of doctor visits and tests, and an
equal investment in medications could not cure his condition. One
week of
Notmilk made all the difference in the world.

http://www.heartburnalliance.org

Whether you believe that the world was created in just seven days by
an all-knowing God, or that we evolved over the course of the eons,
you must respect the profound brilliance of that mechanism by which
mammals feed their infants. Milk is more than just food. Milk
contains
hormones, lactoferrins, and immunoglobulins which nurture the young
of
each species for which it was so designed. In order to protect those
substances which are produced specific to the young of each species,
milk must also create an environment in which those critically
important
substances survive digestive processes.

Nature's perfect plan creates a scenario in which the nursing infant
eats only one food in his or her formative years: milk from mom.
Infant
anteaters eat no ants. Infant Grizzlies eat no honey, berries, or
salmon.
Infant cats eat no mice. Infant dogs eat no Alpo. Infant cows chew no
grass.

When milk is the only substance in a stomach, the gastric acid is
neutralized, or buffered. This weakens the potential of acid so that
gentle proteins in milk survive, intact, and deliver those profound
messages for which they were designed.

Here is the key, then, to heartburn. Milk stops digestion long
enough
for the substances that nurture and protect an infant to survive.

Milk should not be combined with grass or dead animal flesh or
grains
or insects. Milk was designed to be in the stomach with absolutely
no
other substances.

When milk is combined with other foods, milk prevents the stomach
from
doing the job for which it was designed.

Once an infant begins to eat solid foods, that is the time that the
brilliantly designed hormonal delivery system should end. This basic
advice should be applied to all species of mammal. Most species of
mammal possess the wisdom to grasp this law of nature. One species
does not.

Doctors and scientists lack the vision to recognize this most basic
concept and plan. Such simplicity. Such brilliance of design.

If you continue to drink milk, and experience the pains of improper
digestion, try this simple experiment. It works for all humans.

Enjoy this evening's meal. Eat whatever you would normally eat. Have
seconds. Eat no dairy products.

Tomorrow evening, eat exactly the same meal that you enjoyed this
evening.
Have ice cream for dessert. Follow that with a tall glass of milk.

You will have created an environment in which your stomach acid has
been
neutralized. Your food will sit in the stomach and begin to ferment
and
putrefy. You will suffer discomfort. You may even suffer heartburn.

Teach yourself something that physicians rarely learn in medical
school.
You are your own best doctor. Listen to your body's clues. Act
accordingly.

Robert Cohen's Lectures & Cooking Demos: 201-967-7001
Purchase a SoyToy Soymilk Maker: 1-888-668-6455
Purchase a copy of MILK A-Z, God's Nutritionist,
or Milk-The Deadly Poison (2 cassettes): 888-NOT-MIL

[snaffler]

A good new Anti-Milk Campaign started by viva
http://www.milkmyths.org.uk/
Check it out

Nice one VIVA

Has anyone got the billboard poster in their city or town, I guess I may see one in Bristol when I go over next month as it's the HQ city of Viva.

[Elis]

In my weekly news magazine (a national one called profil which is completely mainstream), there was an interesting article about yet another illness which humans get from animals. Apparently there was an international meeting of veterinarians who specialize in paratuberculosis (http://www.paratuberculosis.org/) and they are seriously concerned that paratubreculosis can reach humans through infected milk. COnsumption of this milk in combination with a genetic predisposition then leads to the outbreak of crohn's disease (http://www.ccfa.org/info/about/crohns) a rather unpleasant disorder which effects the gastrointestinal tract. They seem really worried that 20% of cows here in Austria are already infected, an in general everybody was worried that after BSE and the bird flu now, that this will be the next big health problem coming from farm animals.
The main presenters there, a Dr. Ivo Pavlik, even warned that babies and people with a weakened immune system should refrain from consuming milk for the time being.
I posted this in another forum too, but I'm curious as to your responses. And I think it's important to have this information, especially to combat all that misinformation about milk being good for you. It's also the first time that I can recall a mainstream magazine telling people to lay off the milk or seen milk presented as a threat.

[Gliondrach]

It's been found that Crohn's sufferers have higher levels of antibodies to various milk proteins than non-sufferers. Let's hope this will be another nail - albeit a small one - in milk's coffin. For Crohn's and other bowel diseases, pre-biotics found in French onion soup and in oats and germinated barley foodstuff, along with glucosamine, are protective and healing.

[abrennan]

I was reading an article in a magazine I got at world vegan day there was an ex farmer saying how concerned ha was about the effect agriculture was having on the food chain because of the way that animals were treated.

Antony

[NorVegan]

I need some good studies on the effect the natural growth hormones in cow milk has on humans, particularly children.

This is to be used in a debate whit an omni, and PETA, PCRM will probably be listed as an “unserious source”, and www.notmilk.com, well, no. But if anyone can find the origin to this article: http://www.notmilk.com/hormonefree.html in something like this: http://uimc.discoveryhospital.com/main.php?id=1887 I might have a small chance to get trough to him. (But I doubt it, but do I ever learn to avoid trolls? Just want to walk away from the debate, but then it will look like I don’t have any good arguments left.)

But just to say it once again: The discussion is around the NATURAL hormones the cow produces her self, NOT the hormones that if I understand correct is normally used in USA.

Hope someone can help, I am getting more and more irritated over both him and myself. I KNOW I have read a report on the subject, but I have lost it.

[NorVegan]

Am I on to something?

The hormone I was thinking of is IGF-I, correct? And that is in ALL cow milk, no matter how organic it is?

It is NOT BGH or rBGH, that is the hormones that is given cows so they produce more than usual, this is luckily not legal in Norway.

http://www.consumerhealthjournal.com...nd-cancer.html
Not of the best, but readable. I am a bit afraid that it can be judged as not serious.
http://www.foodcomm.org.uk/latest_milk_Oct05.htm
All about natural hormones?
http://www.preventcancer.com/press/e...march20_94.htm
Useful, or not?

If anyone want to look around for good solid articles around organic milk and hormones, please feel free to do so! I am a bit lost in the English language, specially now when I am half asleep.

Never, EVER starting to debate whit trolls! When will I learn? *banging my head against the wall*

[absentmindedfan]

Without being able to offer any articles, I always find the best way to explain it is this:
Regular milk has BGH (bovine growth hormone) added to it, most of which is pumped into the cows to make them grow really big.
Even if these hormones aren't added, cows milk is gonna have cow growth hormone in it because it makes baby cows grow. Human milk has human growth hormone in it, to make babies grow.
Simple

[NorVegan]

That is tried, over, and over again. But now (s)he wants serous studies to back up logic, and I myself has gotten kind of curious to

But it is weird that is it so hard to find anything?

[absentmindedfan]

No cos the Dairy industry funds pro-milk studies so the anti-milk ones are harder to find.

[DianeVegan]

Absentmindedfan has a very good point. Studies cost money and those with it (the dairy industry) are not going to support any studies that make them look unhealthy. This is off-topic, but why is it that 100 years ago we didn't need studies to convince us that something was just not right? Makes me nuts sometimes.

[aubergine]

Have you looked on notmilk.com ?

[Poison Ivy]

Yep, from their first post it looks like Norvegan has already tried notmilk.com, I gather they are looking for something from a site that 'is unbiased, and without an agenda (from an omni's point of view, ie - something not from a 'pro-veg' site).

Why is it that in any of these arguments with omni's they will inevitably quote meat/dairy/government research articles yet when we present them with articles from PETA or VIVA or notmilk etc etc they refuse to take them seriously as these people have an 'agenda' ? (because we all know that government research or articles from meat/dairy sponsored sources are all completely unbiased and honest )

[Litsea]

NorVegan,

Why bother with just the natural growth hormones? Read the China Study if you want compelling health reasons to not drink the stuff for anyone. The main studies from that book were performed using casein (milk protein).

[Morna]

Lets not forget that all babies are suppossed to drink milk from thier moms, though, Ok? Breast-fed babies are healthier in just about every way you can measure.

[KarmaGirl]

My daughter is allergic to milk. It makes her act like she is ADD. I wonder how many children are put on drugs to counteract the poison they are getting from milk? I'm so glad that I am no longer brain washed by the meat and dairy industry.

[Morna]

ADD is real. I have it, and take medication to control it. Though now you mention it, my focus does seem to have improved since I went vegan.

There actually is a connection between diet and ADD. As children are growing, thier brains need certain (unsaturated) fats. These are used to make the nueroreceptors that keep our brain chemistry working like it's suppossed to. If those fats aren't available, the brain will use saturated fats instead, but then the receptors won't be shaped correctly. Faulty receptors lead to the chemical imbalances that cause ADD.

[lozza]

man, this is so sick.

i get the urge now and again to eat cheese, or something. and i'm so glad i read this.. (i knew all the facts, but it was ages ago that i read them) i glad i re-read it... cos i had an urge today and i'm so glad i didnt fufill it.

not that i would have..i'm a hardcore vegan

[Apple_Blossem]

What chinese studies? Can you provide a name so I can research the topic?

[DianeVegan]

Apple Blossem, Litsea was referring to the book "The China Study" by T. Colin Campbell, PhD and Thomas M. Campbell II. This book is based upon a massive epidemiological study jointly undertaken by Oxford University, Cornell University and the Chinese Academy of Preventive Medicine. If you are in any way interested in epidemiology (or your health) then you will find this book fascinating. There has never been a study like it and there probably never will again.

[Hemlock]

Who cares if milk has "natural" growth hormones in or not! They are natural for baby calves, not for us. They are made to encourage rapid growth in calves which are totally different from baby humans.
Calves develop at a totally different rate from humans and as such in nature only human milk is suitable for humans, after weaning we no longer need any growth hormones produced in milk and can cope with a vegetable based diet.

[Korn]

Who cares if milk has "natural" growth hormones in or not!

A calf has a very different growth rate than a human baby, so a 'natural' growth hormone for a cow would not be natural for a human. As adults are not meant to continue to grow, we would we want natural growth hormones throughout our lives anyway?

There's an old tradition (from when it was more normal for a woman to have another woman breastfeed her child) that suggested that substitute milk should come from a mother with a baby at the same age as the one that was getting the substitute mothers milk, because the chemistry of the milk changes as the baby gets older. Drinking milk with growth hormones - natural or not - from another species can't be natural.

NorVegan, since you are Norwegian you may know that Norwegian authorities has changed their policy, and for the last few years said to mothers that can't or won't breastfeed their babies that the mothers milk substitute they give their babies should NOT contain cows milk. One of the reasons is that giving cows milk to babies will increase the chance that a relatively high percentage of these babies will develop diabetes.

Dairy products are also associated with certain cancer types, dairy products are made of cow's milk, cow's milk contain growth hormones, and cancer is defined as 'abnormal growth' of cells...

As vegans always say, if drinking milk from other species - all life - would be so natural, why are there no other animals that doing it?

Whichever method that humans choose to get the milk out of the cow's udder - it doesn't even look natura!

[Korn]

Perspectives on Dairy (from www.treeoflife.nu)

[Patio34]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5000486.stm


Dairy product tie to having twins
By Matt McGrath
BBC News
New research suggests that a diet high in dairy products can greatly increase a woman's chances of having twins. A study in the Journal of Reproductive Medicine showed milk drinkers were five times more likely to have twins than women who ate no animal products.
The numbers of twins in the world has increased significantly in the past 30 years, in some countries by over 50%.
Scientists have suggested fertility treatments and women delaying pregnancy can help explain the rise.
But this new research indicates that diet can also play an important part.
Ovaries stimulated
In the study, the twinning rates of women who ate a diet including milk were compared with women who followed a vegan, or no animal products diet.
It is believed that a protein found in the livers of animals may be the cause. Called Insulin-like Growth Factor or IGF, it is found in cow's milk and other animal products.
In women it makes the ovaries more sensitive and increases the number of eggs produced. Higher levels of IGF improve the survival chances of an embryo in the early stages of development.
The effect is likely to be greater in countries such as the United States that allow growth hormones to be fed to cattle.
The researcher behind this study says that women thinking of getting pregnant might consider alternatives to meat and dairy products to reduce their chances of having twins, as multiple births are more prone to complications.


Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/h...th/5000486.stm

Published: 2006/05/20 12:17:33 GMT

© BBC MMVI


Hmmm, no comment. . .

[veganblue]

Reported May 22, 2006
Want Twins? Don't Go Vegan!

(Ivanhoe Newswire) -- Women who consume animal products -- specifically dairy -- are five-times more likely to have twins than vegan woman, according to study findings of Gary Steinman, M.D., Ph.D., of Long Island Jewish Medical Center in New Hyde Park, New York.

The reason for this may be the role of insulin-like growth factor (IGF), a protein that is released from the liver of animals and leads to increased ovulation.

The rate of twin births has increased significantly in the last 30 years, attributed to assisted reproductive technologies and more older women having babies, as they are more likely to have twins. However, Dr. Steinman says the reason for this may also be "a consequence of the introduction of growth-hormone treatment of cows to enhance their milk and beef production."

In this new study, Dr. Steinman compared the twinning rates of women who ate a regular diet, a vegetarian diet with dairy and a vegan diet.

He concludes, "This study shows for the first time that the chance of having twins is affected by both heredity and environment or, in other words, by both nature and nurture." Dr. Steinman adds his findings are similar to those observed in cows by other researchers, in that a woman's chance of having twins correlates with her level of IGF.

SOURCE: The Journal of Reproductive Medicine, 2006;51:405-410

I may be a little biased towards veganism, but wouldn't it be a suggestion that the rate of twin births is naturally low, but can be increased by environmental factors such as consuming hormones?

It would be interesting to see if there was a correlation between attitudes to IVF and veganism. There is only one vegan couple that I know that used IVF and it resulted in twins - very healthy babies too!

[moonshadow]

Reported May 22, 2006
I may be a little biased towards veganism, but wouldn't it be a suggestion that the rate of twin births is naturally low, but can be increased by environmental factors such as consuming hormones?

i thought that is what the article is saying.

It would be interesting to see if there was a correlation between attitudes to IVF and veganism. There is only one vegan couple that I know that used IVF and it resulted in twins - very healthy babies too!

i used clomid to get pregnant. if it hadn't worked i might have considered ivf, but i don't think i would have gone that far. that said, if i'd spent six months trying with clomid and it didn't work, i think i'd be ready to try nearly anything. on the other hand, i do feel that there are enough people in the world that i don't need to be going to ivf levels to contribute to the world's population, so i like to think that i would stop after unsuccessful clomid tries.

anyway, it did work (on the first round of clomid, too), and despite a slight increase in the chance for twins, we only got one baby.

we won't be using fertility drugs anymore. i'm happy to have one child. if nature decides differently for us in the future, we'll stop at two.



interesting article! thanks for posting it

[veganblue]

Think of yourself as replacing the vegan quotient of the population.

[mememe]

What is clomid? I love the idea of twins, so they are done in one bash as it were, but isn't it less healthy for them to be sharing a womb, and don't they come out a bit smaller? How can you increase your chances of having twins, other than find someone with a histroy of twins in their families?

[mememe]

Just did my own research for others interested:

Clomiphene citrate (CC, Clomid, Serophene) is often the first fertility drug that couples come in contact with. It is (relatively) inexpensive as fertility drugs go, it is easily taken (orally rather than by injection) and it is the first line drug used for ovulation induction in patients with PCOS and other ovulatory disorders. It has been used for patients with luteal phase defect. It can also be used to assess ovarian reserve or, in other words, the likelihood that a woman's ovaries can still produce viable eggs. Clomid is not useful for women whose ovaries have reached the end of their working life.