Is meat a more 'natural' B12 source than plants - if animals need B12 supplements?

[Korn]

Due to what happens with our soil and environment, it's more and more common to give animals supplements of B12 and other nutrients. You'll find one of several sites confirming this - here.

I think this sheds some light on the theory that it's natural to eat animals, since we 'need' them for B12.

The bare facts seems to be that both plants and animals will be deficient in several vitamins and minerals because the soil is depleted from the nutrients we need. I think many meat eaters who might suggest that the vegan diet is unnatural since many vegans eat B12 supplements are not ware of the fact that the animals they eat also might be fed up on supplements and fortified food...

[PinkFluffyCloud]

I must say that I hate taking 'artificial' vitamins, but I do it to supplement my diet, 'just in case'.
Do any of us really live 'naturally' now, and is Nature always 'right'?.
Peasants used to live fairly 'naturally' but it didn't stop them becoming ill or dying young.
Certainly, Meat eating is very, very 'unnatural', in any case - I can't see any basis for that argument, can you? Eating another animal who has been fed God knows what, confined in an 'unnatural' setting, tortured, and killed, and then mechanically pulled apart and scraped up off the floor and packed in plastic.

[Korn]

Peasants used to live fairly 'naturally' but it didn't stop them becoming ill or dying young.

Peasants have traditionally eaten a lot of animal products. Also, there are many reasons that you could get sick or die young besides the diet you're on...

[PinkFluffyCloud]

Peasants have traditionally eaten a lot of animal products. Also, there are many reasons that you could get sick or die young besides the diet you're on...

Yes, Korn, I was really thinking that they obviously didn't have all the modern 'conveniences' that we have today - all the trappings of modern life, and their food must have been largely unprocessed, which is the way I would like to live - but they also didn't have the advantages of modern life, either.

It could be said that their lives were more 'natural' than our (modern) ones, but I'm just saying that this doesn't necessarily mean nature=health.
Just my mind wandering along on it's own!

[PinkFluffyCloud]

I just find it odd, and worrying, that it is so difficult to get B12 from reliable natural sources, I suppose it's a reflection on the state of the Earth?
I do think it's very interesting to note that animals reared for consumption are supplemented with it, and a very good point to raise when this question ever arises.

[feline01]

Look at Vitamin D as well, so many millions of people need to supplement since people just aren't outside like they used to be. I know in a place like Norway, it's more difficult anyway due to the limited sunshine during the winter but here where I live, me and my husband walk with our kids outside in all types of weather but we just don't see anyone else outside. Certain lifestyle/environmental choices have led to the need for supplementation.

Sorta off the subject but not really, reminds me of how formula feeding is so pushed in the USA so that if you decide to breastfeed, it's considered weird and there is not much support from nurses/doctors so alot of women end up giving up and using the formula since they don't know where to begin when it comes to breastfeeding. Breastmilk is the most natural food source in the world and it is repugnant that the medical professionals promote formula to the point where they give out free samples of formula at their offices.

[PinkFluffyCloud]

Aye, Feline, I encountered a lot of negativity when breastfeeding, and it is the most natural food in the World!
When I stayed with my family they expressly asked that I would go into another room to feed my son. When I asked why they found something so natural so repugnant, my brother said "taking a shit is natural but we don't want to watch you do that, either".
To me, that just sums a lot of people up these days.
And yes, you are right about the outdoor bit - I love to be outside, it feels so right, and I always had my son outdoors for about a third of each day (minimum) when he was a baby/toddler. It saddens me greatly that he has now joined the rest of the World and I have to drag him outdoors.

[Korn]

http://www.stockguard.co.nz/smartshot.html
http://www.neogen.com/cyanocobalamin.htm
http://www.saanendoah.com/cobalt.html (Microorganisms in the rumen are able to synthesize vitamin B12 needs of ruminants if the diet is adequate in cobalt. Normally, cobalt is not stored in the body in significant quantities. The small amount that is stored does not easily pass back into the rumen or intestinal tract where it can be used for vitamin B12 syntheses. Therefore, ruminants must consume cobalt frequently in the diet for adequate B12 synthesis)
http://www.championtrees.org/topsoil/b12coblt.htm
http://www.cattletoday.com/archive/2...ne/CT153.shtml (Most rations fed to beef cattle are inadequate in vitamin E. [...] The lack of a trace mineral, cobalt, can result in a vitamin B12 deficiency in cattle. This is because cobalt is a part of the vitamin B12 compound and is essential for rumen bacteria to manufacture this vitamin. Choline supplementation of rations for fattening cattle has appeared to increase performance in Washington State trials, but has not been effective in most other areas of the United States.)
http://www.ravensdown.co.nz/Newslett...r03/page07.htm (Research shows that 20 to 30 per cent of New Zealand farms are deficient in at least one trace element and that these deficiencies limit production.)

[sylkan]

I know that for the body to produce enough vitamin D, it only needs 30 minutes per day of sun on the hands and face. As to b12, well since there are no plant sources I guess our only choice is to take to lab synthesised supplements.

As to natural, well, I have to say that I don't really care. Deadly nightshade is natural, but you won't catch me eating it even though I'm sure there are plently of nutrients in it.

[Korn]

http://www.veganforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=22