5000 year old tribe still on a vegan diet

[Korn]

From http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/...0700080200.htm

A secret the Himalayas hold
Murli Menon

Some excerpts (read the whole article, it's interesting!!):

There are about 1,000 descendants of the Aryan tribes and they live scattered around Gilgit, Hunza, Kargil and Leh. Being nature worshippers, they celebrate the Bononah (nature) festival and are strict vegans, which means they are not only strictly vegetarian but also don't consume milk or milk products
[...]
The few thousand Brok-pa Aryans have over 5,000 years lived in these hostile terrain at 15,000 ft altitude, subsisting on a vegan diet. Music and dance are a way of life for them. Both men and women wear colourful costume, decorating their hair with flowers, and are full of joi de vivre. They live in harmony with nature, and are cheerful and stress-free despite living in small rock shelters. They trek long distances.
[...]
The weather in September is pleasantly cold, though temperatures in January can plummet to -20 degrees Celsius. There are an unusually large number of Aryans above 70 years. Many are active even at 90.

[DoveInGreyClothing]

I often tell people who say things like "veganism is a new fad" that it's been practised by eatern religions for thousands of years, BEFORE B12 supplements (which are really only needed in the western world due to hygeine and modern farming methods anyway). Thanks for the link, Korn.

[celtic rose]

They are truly at one with the Earth. Wonderful.

[Korn]

This site has another picture, (but the woman looking into the camera doesn't look like she has got blue eyes and fair complexion).
http://www.culturalportraits.com/CPI...pa%20Women.htm
I have been trekking in the Himalayas before, and taken many photos (but from another area). I promise that if I do it again, I'll visit these people and post more pictures. I planned to go there once when I was in the area, but was told that if I did, I had to spend several months up there because there would be no way to get back until the snow melted next spring. Not that I would mind spend a few months with these people...

[kriz]

I would love to learn more about this beautiful culture.

[l337_v3g4n_1]

sounds like heaven

beautiful

[Pilaf]

This is wonderful information. I can use it if a vegan argument arises in another forum out there. So many people are under the misconception that veganism is some sort of fad.

[Realfood Mary]

That is really beautiful. Is there more information on them anywhere? Like what do they wear? Was the guy who wrote it black by the way? Because from my end of the melanin spectrum they look pretty brown!

[forest]

What a wonderful article. I'm going to refer people to it whenever I get the 'veganism isn't natural' and 'we're meant to be omnivores' garbage. It proves the point perfectly that by living in harmony with nature and not trashing the land with intensive farming and pesticides we can be natural vegans without having to supplement with B12 tablets - Just as nature intended.

[Alistar]

but the woman looking into the camera doesn't look like she has got blue eyes and fair complexion

Is she supposed to have blue eyes and fair complexion?

[Kiran]

I would love to learn more about this beautiful culture.

You need to go to northern india.. I am indian but it is such a big country that I never could go that north. I wish I could live amonst those vegans. I recon they are raw vegans or something.

[vegandolly]

"a tribe that prides itself on being racially pure Aryan"

I feel uncomfortable about this in terms of hitler's stance on the subject.

Are the two things unconnected are is there justification for my discomfort.

I am confused.

[abrennan]

"a tribe that prides itself on being racially pure Aryan"

I feel uncomfortable about this in terms of hitler's stance on the subject.

Are the two things unconnected are is there justification for my discomfort.

I am confused.

Hitler and his mates stole the word Aryan and the Swastika. The Indians around the world have suffered from this for generations. There is no link.
Aryan is a millenia old sanskrit term that means NOBLE ones. It is thought to originally refer to the peoples who spoke a group of langauges now called proto indo-european from which it is thought all indian and euro languages evolved.

The Buddha calles his group of monastic and lay followers the Arya Sangha which means the Noble Community, or more literally the Holy Association.

The earliest known use of the term is in the Rg Veda (Rig Veda) which is the oldest text known to humanity. Using astronomical observations contained within it has been dated as being 10,000 years old.

The Nazis stole the word and tried to develop a myth to underpin their attempt to rule europe. They invented the idea that they were destined to do it. If they had won it would now be what was written in history book. As it stands it's real intent is forgotten by many but the symbols have, in the west anyway. maintained the erroneous meanings in many peoples minds probably due to movies that continue to use them.

rest assured there is no real connection.

here is an interesting link to a description at wikpedia

Antony
Australia mate

[Korn]

"a tribe that prides itself on being racially pure Aryan"

I feel uncomfortable about this in terms of hitler's stance on the subject.

Are the two things unconnected are is there justification for my discomfort.

I am confused.

Of course nobody who is into non-harming want to be associated with nazism; from the pictures, if they are authentic, these people doesn't look like what the nazis have described as Aryans either.

If an old nazi leader liked carrots, we can't avoid talking about carrots 60 years after his death just because he happened to have an interest for carrots. The same goes for references to certain tribes, races or tahini brands - and it's not that vegans 'like' these people because they belonged to that tribes. There is no link at all between nazi ideals and the vegan movement; like Antony wrote, they just 'stole' the word.

Swastikas, which looks like the nazi-symbol (but are different), can be seen all over India, and nobody seem to be bothered with the fact that the Nazis try to 'steal' it. We shouldn't be bothered if someone we definitely have no links to are associated with a word that simply means 'noble', or with a tribe that possibly are ancestors from Aryans and most likely live on a vegan diet.

I'm surprised there has been no VHS-comments a la 'Until there is research showing that members of this tribe have MMA levels between .07 to .27 µmol/l, the members of these tribes should not be considered healthy vegans' on other sites yet.


*(VHS = Vegan Hypochondriac Syndrome)

[Gliondrach]

Some people in the area of the North West Frontier, as it used to be called, have blue-grey eyes. My father saw them when he served there with the Army. Some people believe that they are the descendants of Alexander The Great's army. If they are, they won't have inherited their blue eyes from that source. Most Greeks and Balkan people have brown eyes.

I've been to India and Afghanistan. In Afghanistan I looked for people with blue eyes but didn't see any. I plan to go to India again one day. I'll have to take a look at this area.

Swastikas were also used by the ancient Scandinavians.

[snaffler]

This is truly amazing and I am so proud of people like this who live away from the traps of regular society in a peacful cruelty freeway.

Just remember if any person ever says again that veganism pah just another new faddy diet....reference this story korn put up.

[Kam]

I'd love to visit!!!

By the way, do we know that they don't use animal products to wear, or are they dietary vegans? Not that I have a problem with a tribe with limited resources using the fleece of anmials that have died naturally to keep warm, I am just interested to know.

[Korn]

IBy the way, do we know that they don't use animal products to wear, or are they dietary vegans?

I don't know.

Here is some related stuff from the World Vegetarian Congress in 1953:

Vegetarianism in Ancient Cultures
DASTUR F. A. BODE


DASTUR BODE, a High Priest of the Zoroastrian religion, explained that culture means right living and includes a proper diet. Though our cultures may appear different we are not divided by them for there is an inner culture revealed by self knowledge and we must grow in unity through self realisation.


When we come to know that the macrocosm and the microcosm are the same in essence we see that we are not mere creatures and -brothers but associates of the Creator.


Speaking of the Aryan culture, the oldest in the world Bode said, "the word Aryan meant one who is spiritually awake" and that the Zoroastrian religion taught the unity of life many centuries before Christ. It was not true that they worshippes the outer physical fire but the inner fire of the heart, spirit and life. Zoroastrianism taught that life cannot be produced from on-life - therefore it should be held sacred. The Christian commandment "Thou shalt not kill" was translated from Zoroastrian teachings.


"There is no conflict in nature" said Dr. Bode, "it is harmonious -and faithful at all times. Only when man comes along is there conflict. Good and evil are conditions within us-if we wish to be good we have the opportunity and no one makes us kill animals and men.


Referring to India he said the country was once totally vegetarian for religious reasons and many family's to-day trace their vegetarianism back 2,000 to 3,000 years. No meat-eaters are allowed to enter their homes, so strongly do they feel about the evil of flesh-eating. Indians are fortunate in having in Dr. Prasad, their President, a man who lives a simple life and is a strict vegetarian. Only under the influence of western "civilisation," Mohammedans, Arabs, during the last few hundred years have the traditional ideas been forsaken.


Buddha taught Ahimsa, the doctrine of non-hurting and saying that sorrow is the result of the desire in man creating causes for which he suffers. We must learn not to desire, not to exploit. Animals may need to be protected and fed but not killed.


In modern times Mahatma Gandhi has started the return of India to an appreciation of the sacredness of life, by example and teaching. If we can feel equally for each one, however low in the scale of consciousness, we shall turn the earth into a paradise.

[LittleNellColumbia]

Damn these vegan chickadees are hot! nah im just tired and being a nutta, (not that they aren't hot) but yeh this sound awesome and i want to go and see this place of heavenlyness

[Gliondrach]

We can travel in India together, Happy. I'll meet you in Delhi. There's a nice little restaurant near Connaught Circus. Superb dahl.

[LittleNellColumbia]

Sounds like a plan! I havnt yet tried dahl.....

[Kiran]

Sounds like a plan! I havnt yet tried dahl.....

Yeah.. travel all the way from australia to India just to try Dahl... It is a very rare commodity and you can't make it in Australia. It can be made only in India. So people travel from all over the world to India to try Dahl.

[catmogg]

This is so interesting. Perhaps we should have a thread about veagn 'communities' all over the world. Does anyone live in a vegan commune?

[Kiran]

This is so interesting. Perhaps we should have a thread about veagn 'communities' all over the world. Does anyone live in a vegan commune?

I used to live in a large vegetarian community in India. Not vegan though. Well.. that is not an interesing fact because in India you will find vegetarian societies all over the country. No big deal.

But, it is really an interesting fact that there is a complete vegan community. That is cool. I don't think there are any more complete significantly populated vegan societies anywhere else.

[LittleNellColumbia]

Yeah.. travel all the way from australia to India just to try Dahl... It is a very rare commodity and you can't make it in Australia. It can be made only in India. So people travel from all over the world to India to try Dahl.

Yup why not, it would be a very enlightening dahl experience
Im a bad cook

[Roxy]

I have tried many westernized versions of Dahl. I would like to try Dahl in India too - just to have an authentic version

[Kiran]

I have tried many westernized versions of Dahl. I would like to try Dahl in India too - just to have an authentic version

Come over to england Rox. I will give you the authentic dahl.. I am Indian.. remember? So you don't have to fly all the way to India.

[Gliondrach]

Roxy and Happy can come with me. My family lived in India for over 100 years. Four generations of them were born there. I have spent 5 weeks there. I'm an old hand there. I drink Indian tea. My contacts in Naini Tal and Murree tell me that Kiran's dahl is rubbish.

[Gliondrach]

This is so interesting. Perhaps we should have a thread about veagn 'communities' all over the world. Does anyone live in a vegan commune?

I do but I'm the only one who lives here.

[Kam]

Roxy and Happy can come with me. My family lived in India for over 100 years. Four generations of them were born there. I have spent 5 weeks there. I'm an old hand there. I drink Indian tea. My contacts in Naini Tal and Murree tell me that Kiran's dahl is rubbish.

Can I come please?

[Gliondrach]

Yes. The four of us can hire a house boat up in Kashmir. My mother told me that it is very beautiful there. Bags I be captain.

[kriz]

Can I come too? I'm looking for adventure and change of environment.

[Gliondrach]

We'll need a bigger houseboat, then.

Actually, you need to be tough to go there. There have been many atrocities committed against the civilian population. There are two Kashmirs, one under Indian control and one supposedly independent but under Pakistan control. Both sides accuse the other of terrorism. Here's a link to some pretty pictures:

http://www.ummah.org.uk/kashmir/iok/iok.htm

[kriz]

Oh, that's right, I forgot about the conflict there...I know I wrote I was looking for adventure...but I'm actually the biggest chicken. Sure looks beautiful, though.

[Gliondrach]

Well, we could go to Naini Tal, instead. I didn't realise how beautiful it was until I looked it up on the netty. A cousin of mine lived there until she died a couple of years ago. It's near the Corbett National Park.

http://www.shunya.net/Pictures/Himal...l/Nainital.htm

I'll pay all expenses for anyone who wants to go. There will just be a service charge of £2.000 each.

[Rozzwellian]

Whilst searching for vegan communities i found this, sounds kind of interesting.
www.g0v.org/

[LittleNellColumbia]

Well, we could go to Naini Tal, instead. I didn't realise how beautiful it was until I looked it up on the netty. A cousin of mine lived there until she died a couple of years ago. It's near the Corbett National Park.

http://www.shunya.net/Pictures/Himal...l/Nainital.htm

I'll pay all expenses for anyone who wants to go. There will just be a service charge of £2.000 each.

Alright. Im sold. 2 pounds?? what is that, 4 aussie dollars??? yep sure im in!!!

[grasshopper]

its so wonderful that their culture revolves around veganism and nature. fabulous article!

[pat sommer]

I think I might be able to handle the trip now... just spent a year in Beijing so my hygiene standards have adjusted downwards.. worse than Borneo where I travelled overland south- north in 98. The Indonesian regime went down while I was all over Java Bali Boreo etc so how bad can Kashmir be? Scarier than walking home after the pubs close hmmm?

As for fads I tell folks my great-great grandmother was vegan: Eve
Maybe that's also why I get my kit off at every opportunity.....

[Hemlock]

The Swastika is not a static picture, it is supposed to represent a moving force or wind that they described as the whirlwind of creation, imagine it as a propeller breathing life into dust.

[veganesh]

thank you Korn..

the Jan 73 National Geographic mentioned that centenarian tribes
around the world were vegetarian.. they singled out the Villcabamba
of Ecuador, the Hunzas of Tibet, and the Azerbaijans of the Caucasus.

Recently s tudy has found that Seventh Day Adventists are the longest
lived community in the US. The international relief of the Adventists is
vegan.

(May they convince their hospitals to stop vivisecting)

[Korn]

the Jan 73 National Geographic mentioned that centenarian tribes
around the world were vegetarian.. they singled out the Villcabamba
of Ecuador, the Hunzas of Tibet, and the Azerbaijans of the Caucasus.

Interesting. Both Donald Watson and Serena Coles, two of the pioneers of veganism, became 95. Many of the members of the vegan tribe in the Himalayas are also active at 90. Could it be because they get their B12 from barley grass and Omega-3 from walnuts? Apricots, another healthy plant (which by the way contains amygdalin), is also essential in their diet.

[Seaside]

My grandfather lived to 101, and ate walnuts from his four walnut trees almost every day. He wasn't vegan, though.

[sproutsfan]

Many of the members of the vegan tribe in the Himalayas are also active at 90. Could it be because they get their B12 from barley grass and Omega-3 from walnuts?

According to this http://www.beyondveg.com/walsh-s/vit...vegans-1.shtml and other sites, our barley grass and other plants aren't reliable sources of B12, they just have analogues that are often mistaken for B12 and don't protect against deficiency for more than a decade (adults take a long time to run out). I suspect that like other communities uninfluenced by Western farming methods, they just don't use the pesticides and obsessive hygiene that prevent bacteria from producing B12 in their soil. Just thought I'd point this out in case anyone were thinking of trying to get it from these sources. But if this is true (I'm no expert, just repeating what I've read), then when peak oil happens and current methods are impossible, it should be quite possible to stay as healthy vegans as these people without fortified food or supplements.

[Korn]

According to this http://www.beyondveg.com/walsh-s/vit...vegans-1.shtml and other sites, our barley grass and other plants aren't reliable sources of B12, they just have analogues that are often mistaken for B12 and don't protect against deficiency for more than a decade (adults take a long time to run out).

Even if beyondveg (the most notorious anti-vegan site on internet) claims that ie. barley grass (or any other plant) is not a reliable B12 source, this doesn't imply that barley grass never is a useful B12 source, or that plants are never useful as B12 sources. Neitehr does it imply that animal products always are reliable B12 sources, or that animal products don't contain B12 analogues, or that B12 analogues mixed with real B12 always is a real problem....

[sproutsfan]

LOL, yeah maybe I could have chosen a better site to link to.

I wasn't saying that plant sources are never useful - obviously that tribe and others avoid deficiency somehow - I was just pointing out that it's not currently accepted by scientists that Western vegans can do the same, and from what I can tell, farming methods are the main theory as to why. As long as people are informed of this uncertainty, I won't argue with any conclusion they come to. Personally, I use fortified foods and yeast extract to be on the safe side, and look forward to the day I can grow my own veg like these people and no longer require them.

[Sergio]

thank you Korn..

the Jan 73 National Geographic mentioned that centenarian tribes
around the world were vegetarian.. they singled out the Villcabamba
of Ecuador, the Hunzas of Tibet, and the Azerbaijans of the Caucasus.

Can you please provide more information about Azerbaijans of the Caucasus? Because Azerbaijanis a muslim country and I haven't heard about them being vegans, or even vegetarians.

[archaeopteryx]

I love this tribe. I would love to see a documentary about their way of life. It would make great television and provide a good means of introducing and exploring the idea of veganism in a new way to many people. I hope someone in a position to do this will do this soon. I don't want to see these people interfered with and disturbed but I would love to know and see more about them.

[AndyRain]

Thanks for the article. I printed it. I aspire to go there and see for myself. I am tired of reading nutritional studies that say....

"There has never been a culture of vegans."

or

"There are not enough vegans to make this study conclusive."

In my view, a FABULOUS contribution to animals is to have a few children and from birth to death have epidemiologists study them, so we have more "vegan data."

Thanks again.

[Russ]

The best part is they're 5000 years old. That's proof positive that vegans live longer. I'd love to see omnivores try to argue against THAT one.