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Thread: How do you look at your past as a meateater?

  1. #1
    Vivisanctor
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    Question How do you look at your past as a meateater?

    how should we view meateaters?

    --as the scourge of the world?

    --as another avenue through which we can be of benefit to animals? In this case they could be considered an asset to us since they are in the best position to be of the greatest benefit to animals in the future, if we can convince them to stop eating animal products.


    another question:

    Should we be angry AT people for eating meat? let me explain: Seeing someone eating meat saddens me greatly, and it also angers me. I'm angry to see them do it, but I'm not angry AT THEM when I see them do it. Do I feel different than most of you? Being angry is certainly natural, but where we direct our anger seems well within our control, and directing it at the people we wish to reach seems counterproductive to our main goal of getting them to open up to our message..

  2. #2
    Mozbee
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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    Each omni is potentially another vegan waiting to blossom! How lovely

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    cross barer
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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    Through the bars of cages...

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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    I know that I am probably very lonely in my views here, but I cannot judge meat eaters. I just don`t. It`s their choice, they do not want to know or do not care enough, but who am I to judge their lifestyle or even try to change them? I have no right. At the same time, I get very upset if people try to change mine.

    @ Mary: I have the same experiences. I never enjoyed meat, particularly pork I always hated. But obviously, it is the mother who decides what is bought and what is cooked, and she was one of the mothers who insists in their kids emptying their plates. Unfortunately, meat is very important to my dad and she cooked accordingly. Only when she started working again and be out at lunch time, I was free to stop eating meat - my sister was too happy to take my portions which mum had prepared. Back then, I was obviously not educated enough to know that I have to substitute the meat with something else, so basically, I just had what everybody had, but without the meat. On a Sunday I still had to eat it and hated it.

    You are right, Mary, the kids are not guilty. They have little say and have to go along with the choices the parents make for them.

    littleTigercub

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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    how should we view meateaters?
    Flesh eating zombies.

    I've always tried to respect other people's viewpoints and not judge them, but the more I see and hear about animal suffering, the more it sickens me that people eat meat. I never preach to people, but at the same time, I can't help how it makes me feel inside. When I see people eating meat, I see it both as dead, decomposing corpse flesh and I also see the living sentient creature it once was and how it was slaughtered and everything - that just makes me so angry when I know all that suffering and death is needless.

  6. #6

    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    I agree with anyone who says that meat-eaters/omnivores should not be seen as terrible murderers, but only unless they have actually realized what they're eating. Children are innocent in my eyes, and we can never blame them for eating what their mothers are making them eat; we should blame the parents for not teaching their children where meat comes from.

    Yesterday I asked my mother if I had ever asked her "Where does meat come from?" when I was little. She replied, "No" and explained that somehow I figured out on my own (when I was 3 or 4) that beef comes from cow and so on. She also said that I basically had a vegetarian diet, except I did ocassionally eat chicken nuggets, pretty much the only meat I ate. I did not really like hamburgers, hotdogs, or steak.

    I was kind of mad that my mom never told me HOW we got the meat. She never told me what a chicken had to go through so I could eat a chicken nugget. I wish she did explain those sort of things to me when I was younger..
    "Maybe I'll catch fire, something warm to hold me..."

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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    Quote Brownie
    I agree with anyone who says that meat-eaters/omnivores should not be seen as terrible murderers, but only unless they have actually realized what they're eating. Children are innocent in my eyes, and we can never blame them for eating what their mothers are making them eat; we should blame the parents for not teaching their children where meat comes from.

    Yesterday I asked my mother if I had ever asked her "Where does meat come from?" when I was little. She replied, "No" and explained that somehow I figured out on my own (when I was 3 or 4) that beef comes from cow and so on. She also said that I basically had a vegetarian diet, except I did ocassionally eat chicken nuggets, pretty much the only meat I ate. I did not really like hamburgers, hotdogs, or steak.

    I was kind of mad that my mom never told me HOW we got the meat. She never told me what a chicken had to go through so I could eat a chicken nugget. I wish she did explain those sort of things to me when I was younger..
    She probably didn't want to upset you or felt guilty herself for eating meat. No parent would like to explain to a child how horrible humans can be. For a lot of people they try not to think about where their food comes from. I would rather someone had told me about the untold suffering that takes place. I knew where meat came from very early on, but I guess when you see you parents as kind, caring people, you don't make the connection that they would provide you with something that had caused pain and suffering - do you know what I mean?

  8. #8
    Mozbee
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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    A lot of omnies simply haven't got a clue what goes on before their meat in its nice package reaches the supermarket shelf, and that's the way they want to keep it!

  9. #9

    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    Quote Kumem
    She probably didn't want to upset you or felt guilty herself for eating meat. No parent would like to explain to a child how horrible humans can be. For a lot of people they try not to think about where their food comes from. I would rather someone had told me about the untold suffering that takes place. I knew where meat came from very early on, but I guess when you see you parents as kind, caring people, you don't make the connection that they would provide you with something that had caused pain and suffering - do you know what I mean?
    Yes, I understand. But I am still a little disappointed that they didn't at least teach me about vegetarianism.
    "Maybe I'll catch fire, something warm to hold me..."

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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    Some people realise what they eat and don`t.

    They know that their steaks do not grow on trees but they do not know about the suffering because they do not want to know. They are in denial because they are probably afraid that, if they would educate themselves about the suffering, they would have to stop eating meat. It`s an easy option just to turn a blind eye to these things.

    But if I`d hate all animal eaters and consider them as murderers I would be very hateful and lonely. Saying this, I cannot help judging people who chose slaughtering etc as their profession. This is one thing I cannot understand, that, among all the trades one can go in, one choses killing and torturing. These must be sick and sadistic people. I wouldn`t say this to people but I cannot help that this is how I feel about them. I abhorr butchers and such and cannot imagine that they can be good persons.

    littleTigercub

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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    I just see meat eaters as weak or misguided. Same as I think of people I know who keep their critters in undersized cages.

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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    Quote Brownie
    Yes, I understand. But I am still a little disappointed that they didn't at least teach me about vegetarianism.

    Veganism is not openly "taught" to the general public. People go by what the food guides indicate and what nutrionists and pharmacists tell them is needed to live healthy.

    Most parents probably keep the chicken nugget or the egg omelet ingrediants a secret from their children as they want to raise a healthy family. Although, it is known that we, as humans, can survive on a herbivorious diet, many people are still being told that you can only get protein, calcium, B12, etc. from consuming animal products.

    I don't think that parents who do not discuss where the food all comes from are purposly trying to force animals into childrens bellies while telling a lie--I think they are simply misinformed.

    This doesn't apply to only parents though, people who think about becoming vegan sometimes dismiss the idea totaly after speaking with a health professional. I was talking with a pharmacist the other day, he told me that if I was choosing this "irregular" diet, I would need lots of supplements, etc. I thought "irregular?" wow, if a professional is saying this to me, imagine how someone would feel if he/she was just taking the first steps!

    We need more vegan nutritionists, pharmacists and a readily available food guide--one that doesn't show animal products as the only way to live a healthy life!

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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    Quote Brownie
    I was kind of mad that my mom never told me HOW we got the meat. She never told me what a chicken had to go through so I could eat a chicken nugget. I wish she did explain those sort of things to me when I was younger..
    That doesn't necessarily change minds even of children who are usuallly so empathic. Maybe, one day I will take my daughter to Brooks, Alberta, the slaughterhouse capital of Canada and show her what happens to those cute cows and pigs that I talk about all the time. She knows what happens, but seeing it might make all the difference. My partner will have to come, though, because you couldn't pay me enough money to go in one of those places. 'Course, after the conversation that we had tonight, it is unlikely that he would condone something like that. His own feelings are such that he would prefer to eat meat because he likes it and simply doesn't agree that it's immoral.

    I had thought that he understood, but just couldn't let go. It seems that he is very attached to meat. In fact he got very defensive when I mentioned that I would like it if we could keep meat out of the house. He told me that he resented being asked to give up something he loves and said that it would be like someone forcing me to eat meat*. I was a little shocked. Especially when I feel like every meateater I know is trying to force me to eat meat with their insulting arguments and insinuations regarding my taste and my sanity.

    * By meat I mean any animal product; it's just easier to type meat.

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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    Quote Mozbee
    Perhaps these people are feeding their thirst to murder 'other' animals?
    This is my view, yes. I once got crucified in another forum for saying that, if there were no slaughterhouses for people to work in, they may be more violence towards humans.

    But a vivisectionist whom I spoke to has once admitted that new staff need to be watched to ensure that they do not enjoy their work as research has shown that a lot of people who rape, murder, or beat people up have once been vivisectionists. This does not surprise me and I can imagine the same works for slaughterhouses.

    littleTigercub

  15. #15
    tails4wagging
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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    Some years ago a letter was printed in a newspaper about a city woman who had moved to the country to live. She went into a local butchers to ask for some lamb joints. The butcher said he had none that day but some lambs would be slaughtered the next day, she replied, horrified,'' oh, no dont kill any for me I will go to the supermarket and gets some''. Says it all really doesnt it??.

    Meat in a celephane tray isnt lamb is it!!!!!!!.

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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    Quote littleTigercub
    I know that I am probably very lonely in my views here, but I cannot judge meat eaters. I just don`t. It`s their choice, they do not want to know or do not care enough, but who am I to judge their lifestyle or even try to change them? I have no right. At the same time, I get very upset if people try to change mine. littleTigercub
    I am afraid I agree with you Tigercub. My husband and two sons are all omnivores but as they are grown up men it is up to them what they eat just as I choose what to eat and how to act. I wasn't vegetarian as a child although knowing what I know now I wish I had been.

  17. #17

    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    Quote Vivisanctor
    how should we view meateaters?
    Almost as bad as vivisanctors!

  18. #18
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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    I'm not sure I know the answer to this question. I definately do not hate people who eat meat. After all I used to eat meat and my whole family eats meat still. Plus most of the meat eaters I know personally are really lovely people. About the only time I actually experience anger towards omnivorous folks is when passing fast food places, particularly Mcdonalds and KFC etc. and then Iím mostly just pissed off at those wretched companies for taking advantage of peoplesí weaknesses. Iím convinced that people would eat vegan food if they only knew it can be just as tasty or even more so than meat. So ideally meat eaters should be viewed with compassion. Youíre never going to get through to anyone if you treat them with contempt.

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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    Quote Aurora
    I am afraid I agree with you Tigercub. My husband and two sons are all omnivores but as they are grown up men it is up to them what they eat just as I choose what to eat and how to act. I wasn't vegetarian as a child although knowing what I know now I wish I had been.
    Count me as part of that too - many people I love are omnivores, and while sometimes people judge me, I won't judge them. Eating meat does not make someone evil, just as being a vegan doesn't automatically equal being angelic.

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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    Quote Vivisanctor
    Should we be angry AT people for eating meat?
    I'm not angry at them but I can certainly judge that they are doing something wrong. It's like jury duty: When you are called it is your duty as a member of society to look at the facts and decide whether a person is right or wrong--and that's it. No anger, no punishment--just a judgement of the facts.

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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    Quote Banana
    Count me as part of that too - many people I love are omnivores, and while sometimes people judge me, I won't judge them. Eating meat does not make someone evil, just as being a vegan doesn't automatically equal being angelic.
    Well said Banana

    And to answer your question. I do not view them. They are just people i know who eat meat, how ever wrong i feel it is, they do not have the same views as me the same as i dont have the same views as them

  22. #22
    Pilaf
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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    Well.. meat eaters are misguided and misinformed, but not necessarily "a menace to society" in and of themselves. Many people who eat meat have done good things on this planet. But... there comes a time in society when change is necessary.

  23. #23
    Mozbee
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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    Homo Sapiens who dine on death that could be alive if it wasn't for their selfish appetite.

  24. #24
    Tombstone
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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    If someone knows what meat is and eats it - showing that they don't care, then I blame them and consider them to be morally wrong and thorougly unpleasant. This is just my opinion of them, it's not like I attack them or throw things at them. I just feel in my mind that eating meat is a nasty cruel thing to do, and totally unnecessary. I blame them for their actions.

    The notion of saying 'Well I used to eat meat so I can't hate someone for doing it' is illogical in my opinion. What is wrong with hating yourself for what you've done? Just because it was you who did it, it doesn't mean that everything you've ever done was right. I hate myself for many things I've done in my life, I don't justify something by saying that I personally have done it. It doesn't really mean anything. Using the same logic, nothing could be said to be morally wrong, even murder, as a murderer themself could say 'Well I can't hate other murderers, because I am a murderer'. Clearly that doesn't justify murder, or make it any less hatable.

    But I think people should be careful if they do hate someone. People should find a way to live and communicate with each other regardless of hate. My 'friends' are all meat-eaters, and I try to behave 'normally' with them so that I get the best out of my life, rather than cutting myself off altogether. People should share their opinions and logic, and hopefully non-vegans will agree at some point and change what they're doing. I do not suggest manifesting hate against people, it is pointless.

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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    [QUOTE=Tombstone]
    The notion of saying 'Well I used to eat meat so I can't hate someone for doing it' is illogical in my opinion. What is wrong with hating yourself for what you've done?
    I agree with that statement,although "hate" is too strong of a word. I do not choose my friends (nor can I choose my family) based on what they eat, that doesn't mean that inside I like what they are doing--inside I am screaming!! But I do realize that I was in their place once before, I was about 27 years old when I became a vegetarian and only just became a vegan a few months ago at 30, so I know people are capable of change; though I can be ignorant toward meat eaters at times--yes, I admit it. I think once you see the fine writing, it is hard to believe that others miss it.

    I am not pleased with myself, knowing I could have made the change long ago and I think that is why I liked this statement at first glance. Change is possible--and not just for the crazy "activists" as they like to call some of us (though it is hard not to become somewhat of an activist if you are in it mainly for the anilmals, and I do act a bit "crazy" ). Change is possible for anyone who has a kind heart and an open mind. I try to keep that in mind when I watch someone gobble down a hot dog--though I will never "accept" it as being ok.
    It is challenging to stand as a minority; but doing so sometimes makes a hero.

  26. #26
    Tombstone
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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    [QUOTE=tasha]
    Quote Tombstone

    I agree with that statement,although "hate" is too strong of a word. I do not choose my friends (nor can I choose my family) based on what they eat, that doesn't mean that inside I like what they are doing--inside I am screaming!!
    .
    Well by hate I mean 'thoroughly dislike', however you want to phrase it. It's just like murder to me, the same level of dislike. My friends eats meat, and I really dislike that. But I know that's how society is, and although I dislike humans in general for being so cruel and horrible, I'd rather make the best of it and at least try to get on with some of them (even if I think they're morons). Otherwise, I'd just be sat on my own all day. I still hate them, but they are useful for passing the time.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    Quote Evilfluffbunny
    Flesh eating zombies.

    I've always tried to respect other people's viewpoints and not judge them, but the more I see and hear about animal suffering, the more it sickens me that people eat meat. I never preach to people, but at the same time, I can't help how it makes me feel inside. When I see people eating meat, I see it both as dead, decomposing corpse flesh and I also see the living sentient creature it once was and how it was slaughtered and everything - that just makes me so angry when I know all that suffering and death is needless.
    I too can't say it any better than you, Evilfluffbunny.
    A bit rattled

  28. #28
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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    I'm just reading J M Coetzee's "Elizabeth Costello", where she is talking to her son about why she feels so strongly about animal slaughter. She says that whilst she has perfectly normal friendships, yet she asks herself if those people are all participants in a crime of stupefying proportions. It is driving her mad, and as I was reading that part, it struck home to me how often I feel that this ghastly conspiracy of torture is going on day after day, yet people don't want to know. Their love for eating flesh is just too strong. Do we knock our heads against the wall, or what?
    Eve

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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    People who eat meat should tour a slaughterhouse. In California there is a huge stockyard and abbatoir to encounter on the I-5 which cuts through the central valley north-south. It's so bad all the vegetation downwind is all withered and yellow. What a stench when you drive up on it, even after you roll up the windows.

    I'm convinced that it is the distemper caused by putrifaction in the intestines of meat-eaters that leads to war and terror bombings, not to mention the ravages on the filtering organs that bring on old age prematurely and cause disease and wrong thinking.

    But to answer your question, meat-eaters should be viewed as habituated to a long-ingrained cultural habit that probably originated out of cannibalism ages ago.

    I suspect that the story of Moses and his dietary prescription in the Bible was a compromise with the common people who had been misled by ritual cannibals and child torturers, the devil worshippers of that time.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    Quote Dome
    People who eat meat should tour a slaughterhouse...
    I agree, though most of the hardcore meat eaters I know would never agree to do such a thing. I wish more people would visit slaughterhouses, wow, it would have such an impact on so many! There are some who, after visiting a slaughterhouse, would probably still eat meat because it is easier for them to live a lie than face the truth (I have a few in mind).

    Wouldn't it be nice if there were more commercials on T.V. showing viewers what happens to animals, not the "in your face ones", but ones that take baby steps by first showing the animals in their living conditions, then progressing to a clip of them being hung upside down. We have a commercial here funded by the CCFA and at the end they ask people to limit their intake of meat or go vegetarian (which is easier for a true omnivore to hear than just "Go vegan or else!). I have learned that meat eaters use the "in your face" clips like some of peta"s as an escape, like...see that doesn't happen everywhere...that is abuse, or this is the extreme (which in some cases, it may be), or OUR slaughterhouses don't operate in that manner". Not that I don't commend peta, I do, I would still be vegetarian if it weren't for them, though I have watched others have a different reaction than I after viewinfg some of their stuff.


    I think once these more clam and mannerly commercials air for awhile, they could show a bit more--gradually bringing people into the full truth.

    We live in a world where lies sometimes hold stronger to the truth because it is easier to back up a falsehood and stand with the majority.
    It is challenging to stand as a minority; but doing so sometimes makes a hero.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    Sadly, I think that most omnivores would close their eyes and ears to anything upsetting to them, and probably complain.

    One of the questions on this thread is "How do you look at your past as a meateater?" As far as I'm concerned, it's hard to believe how unquestioningly, in my family, we all ate and enjoyed mum's roast and two veg! Now I can't even bear to pass a butchers shop from where a smell of meat emanates. I also find quite impossible to watch a cooking program because although it may start off with something innocuous, yet before long someone is chopping up an animal. Makes me puke.
    Eve

  32. #32

    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed? How do you look at your past as a meateater?

    i subscribe to the "future vegan" mindset. though i won't eat around omnis, i can't stomach it.

    i have a friend who was lucky enough to be born and raised veggie and then went vegan, and he says he knows that he would have gone veg even if he had been raised omni. not to cast aspersions on his character, but i highly doubt it. the numbers just don't support that. most people born in a particular culture with a particular mindset live their lives without ever questioning that culture.

    being omni IS part of our culture and it's hard to get the blinders off. if you truly BELIEVE that not eating meat would kill you, that not feeding your kids meat would harm and kill them, how many of us would really have considered veganism? some, for sure, but i'd be surprized if very many of us were willing to do that to our children. suppose you really believed that meat wasn't hurting the animals? people can believe some amazingly strange things forever simply because of the way they were raised. don't believe me? think about all the different religions that go against logic and reason. if you're religious, think about a religion that isn't yours.

    i think omnis deserve our compassion and to be treated as someone who might one day change. hating and giving up on omnis is only going to reduce the number of potential veg*ns.

  33. #33
    Tombstone
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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed? How do you look at your past as a meateater?

    Quote ccgyrl
    i subscribe to the "future vegan" mindset. though i won't eat around omnis, i can't stomach it.

    i have a friend who was lucky enough to be born and raised veggie and then went vegan, and he says he knows that he would have gone veg even if he had been raised omni. not to cast aspersions on his character, but i highly doubt it. the numbers just don't support that. most people born in a particular culture with a particular mindset live their lives without ever questioning that culture.

    being omni IS part of our culture and it's hard to get the blinders off. if you truly BELIEVE that not eating meat would kill you, that not feeding your kids meat would harm and kill them, how many of us would really have considered veganism? some, for sure, but i'd be surprized if very many of us were willing to do that to our children. suppose you really believed that meat wasn't hurting the animals? people can believe some amazingly strange things forever simply because of the way they were raised. don't believe me? think about all the different religions that go against logic and reason. if you're religious, think about a religion that isn't yours.

    i think omnis deserve our compassion and to be treated as someone who might one day change. hating and giving up on omnis is only going to reduce the number of potential veg*ns.
    I hate them but don't hate on them; they are not aware that I hate them. My opinion of them is that they're bad for doing what they do, it's a bad thing, it's negative. That's as far as it goes.

    I agree that if society was vegan, then people would unquestioningly be vegan, and people would rarely if ever decide to eat meat. And by contrast, the main reason why people eat meat is because they have been told to from a young age, and told that not eating it is weird / wrong / stupid / unhealthy etc. However, if you explain to them why it's wrong to eat meat, in every detail, and they don't agree with you, then at what point do you stop talking about them being preprogrammed?

    I have a friend that I've known since I was about 3 or 4 years old. They have been a close friend, and we frequently talk about veganism, yet they never even consider doing it themselves. So it has been a part of their life, it's not a new introduction, it is something they have put a lot of thought into, and they can see that I am healthy and there's nothing to fear. They literally do not care about animals, they're selfish and cruel - they openly admit that the reason they are not vegan is because they are selfish. I have other friends to whom I have spoken at great length, and they also do not accept that they're wrong. Other people I've met, I have had brief conversations with, and again, none show any signs of agreement. Only three people in my life have ever cut down on meat after talking to me, and they claim that it wasn't to do with me anyway, and one person went from vegetarian to almost vegan due to my logical conversation with them. But really, I think the vast majority of people are actually bad - nasty. Yes they would be vegan if society was vegan, but not because they actually care - only because that's what everyone else is doing. They're weak-willed, directionless and ultimately cruel and selfish with little or no empathy for animals, only concerned with themselves and things directly around them or which affect them. I accept that this is what humans are generally like, and see no reason to make a fuss out of it, or to attack them. But I still see it, and I don't pretend that they are blameless.

  34. #34
    Tombstone
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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed? How do you look at your past as a meateater?

    I don't see a problem with being 'judgemental'. To me that just means that you take into account people's actions; if they do something you like, then you like them more, if they do something you don't like, you dislike them more. Being judgemental doesn't necessarily mean you're an idiot. The problem comes when someone is being 'judgemental' and telling someone they're wrong for doing something, and that person disagrees and thinks it's perfectly reasonable.

    Just like Shisha says, it's judgemental to say that murdering is wrong, and murderers are wrong. But it's accepted. People generally use the term 'judgemental' to mean someone who is overly critical of things that are pedantic or unimportant. But of course someone who eats meat would say that eating meat is unimportant. It only makes sense to judge people based on their actions.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed? How do you look at your past as a meateater?

    It is amazing to know that we (vegans and vegetarians) count for such a small portion of the population. People are convinced that it is right as the majority does it!

    ...and if only people would stop using the excuse that "we have always eaten meat, therefore that is the way it should be..."

    I hate hearing that! I cringe with every stupid argument I have with meat eaters.

    I was reading my paper to my sister an hour ago (not the vegetarian sister) and she said, "wow, I can see why you have stopped eating meat--that is horrible stuff". I thought, great, I am getting the message out with this research paper! About 15 mins later, she and my mother were leaving to look at wedding gowns and she said, "do you think we could stop for a Mc Chicken--I'm starving". P***** me off!

    It hurts knowing that she loves animals (in fact she has rescued 9 grey hounds), yet she continues to aid in slaughter
    It is challenging to stand as a minority; but doing so sometimes makes a hero.

  36. #36
    Tombstone
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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed? How do you look at your past as a meateater?

    Quote tasha
    It is amazing to know that we (vegans and vegetarians) count for such a small portion of the population. People are convinced that it is right as the majority does it!

    ...and if only people would stop using the excuse that "we have always eaten meat, therefore that is the way it should be..."

    I hate hearing that! I cringe with every stupid argument I have with meat eaters.

    I was reading my paper to my sister an hour ago (not the vegetarian sister) and she said, "wow, I can see why you have stopped eating meat--that is horrible stuff". I thought, great, I am getting the message out with this research paper! About 15 mins later, she and my mother were leaving to look at wedding gowns and she said, "do you think we could stop for a Mc Chicken--I'm starving". P***** me off!

    It hurts knowing that she loves animals (in fact she has rescued 9 grey hounds), yet she continues to aid in slaughter
    word up yo. discrimination, i hate it. I know enough people who are all like 'awww' and crap about 'domestic' pets (cats, dogs, hamsters), and they are disgusted by things about animal cruelty to pets; when kids torture their pets, or hang them or set them on fire etc, they're like 'that's out of order!!'. But if I try to show them a video of animal slaughter, they're like 'why would i want to see that?' So they accept that it's gross, but they don't make the connection with themselves, and realise that they're gits.

  37. #37
    Pilaf
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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed? How do you look at your past as a meateater?

    I'm not utterly convinced that every human on the face of the planet will ever be 100% vegan, but I'm optimistic that with mounting scientific evidence of the many health benefits, and environmental benefits etc., that more and more people will "convert" within the next couple of hundred years. I think the community will double or triple in size by the time another 100 years passes.

  38. #38
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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed? How do you look at your past as a meateater?

    Quote Tombstone
    I think the vast majority of people are actually bad - nasty. Yes they would be vegan if society was vegan, but not because they actually care - only because that's what everyone else is doing. They're weak-willed, directionless and ultimately cruel and selfish with little or no empathy for animals, only concerned with themselves and things directly around them or which affect them.
    This is a frightening statement, but I believe it is true.
    A bit rattled

  39. #39
    Mozbee
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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed? How do you look at your past as a meateater?

    We're up against conformity aren't we!

  40. #40

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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    Quote littleTigercub
    They have little say and have to go along with the choices the parents make for them.
    i disagree. few parents will let their children starve to death. if a child wants to quit meat bad enough all they have to do is refuse and they will get their way. if only kids weren't so defeatest
    please could you stop the noise? i'm trying to get some rest from all the unborn chicken voices in my head.

  41. #41
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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed?

    Quote bulletproof
    i disagree. few parents will let their children starve to death. if a child wants to quit meat bad enough all they have to do is refuse and they will get their way. if only kids weren't so defeatest
    I think it depends on the situation. Some parents would argue, shout at and threaten their kids if they refused to eat meat. In that situation, if the child is quite young, then it is understandable that they will give in, it is a huge amount of pressure. In other situations, a child might decide to be veg*n, and the parents say 'don't be so silly' or whatever, and although they discourage the child, they don't actually threaten or shout at them. In that situation, it is less understandable, and it is more a lack of conviction from that child, given that they aren't really in a bad situation, or fearful, they're just conforming for very little reason.

  42. #42
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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed? How do you look at your past as a meateater?

    I love this topic!
    My boyfriend is hardcore meat eater...I love him, I will not force him to be vegan or veggie. I just think humans as a whole care more for their selfish indulgences and the power we have over animals is a testosterone filled way of slaughter that give in to our taste buds or the way we look (leather, fur). Ignorance is bliss.
    I admit, for the longest. I knew it was wrong BUT I still ate meat. Society tells us we MUST eat meat (like stated before) to be healthy, EVERY meal course contained animals...animal everywhere!
    But the tortune of the animals and destruction of the environment completely turned me over.
    Do I "hate" meat eaters? No. But they disgust me. Humans are so distructive it makes me so disgusted. Farming livestock is disgusting.
    Hundreds of years of brainwashing to judeo-christian beliefs that this earth is ours to exploit and these animals are ours to eat, i highly doubt will be erased anytime soon.
    Anyone agree?

  43. #43
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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed? How do you look at your past as a meateater?

    Quote bmwslut
    I love this topic!
    My boyfriend is hardcore meat eater...I love him, I will not force him to be vegan or veggie. I just think humans as a whole care more for their selfish indulgences and the power we have over animals is a testosterone filled way of slaughter that give in to our taste buds or the way we look (leather, fur). Ignorance is bliss.
    I admit, for the longest. I knew it was wrong BUT I still ate meat. Society tells us we MUST eat meat (like stated before) to be healthy, EVERY meal course contained animals...animal everywhere!
    But the tortune of the animals and destruction of the environment completely turned me over.
    Do I "hate" meat eaters? No. But they disgust me. Humans are so distructive it makes me so disgusted. Farming livestock is disgusting.
    Hundreds of years of brainwashing to judeo-christian beliefs that this earth is ours to exploit and these animals are ours to eat, i highly doubt will be erased anytime soon.
    Anyone agree?
    The brain-washing won't be erased any time soon, I agree on that. I hate people who choose to cause suffering to animals for (what I consider to be) unnecessary selfish reasons. What would your boyfriend have to do before you did hate him? I don't mean personally to you, I mean morally speaking. If he hit a guy in the face in a bar fight? If he mugged someone in the street? If he murdered someone, raped someone? When do you hate him?

  44. #44
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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed? How do you look at your past as a meateater?

    Quote Tombstone
    The brain-washing won't be erased any time soon, I agree on that. I hate people who choose to cause suffering to animals for (what I consider to be) unnecessary selfish reasons. What would your boyfriend have to do before you did hate him? I don't mean personally to you, I mean morally speaking. If he hit a guy in the face in a bar fight? If he mugged someone in the street? If he murdered someone, raped someone? When do you hate him?
    I take it from what you are saying that you think that meat eaters are comparible with the above mentioned examples. I am picking up that you think people who eat should be hated, or have I got that wrong?

    I personally do not think they are valid examples. In terms of their severity, then maybe they are, but it is more a question of perceived right and wrong. People are brought up knowing that mugging, fighting, raping and murder are unacceptable. Most people are not raised to know the same about meat.

    Liz

  45. #45
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    Talking Re: How should meateaters be viewed? How do you look at your past as a meateater?

    I think I can only hate an omni if they were fully educated (health wise and animal suffering) and still did ate meat. There's just something malicious about it.
    I can't blame my bf for eating meat, its our culture but I can sit and be disgusted because I was once like him, I didn't know. But Im not going to preach to him...for some people its hard to change. I don't get it but some people just give him to meat...their just weak.
    I stopped meat cold-tofurkey. He probably won't be so easy to do so...because (I think) its drilled that a slab of animal flesh cooked rare is "manly".
    Real manly when your in your 30's-40's undergoing a quadruple bypass coronary or a massive stroke and you can no longer take care of yourself.

  46. #46
    Tombstone
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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed? How do you look at your past as a meateater?

    If someone doesn't know what meat is, I can't hate them, or even blame them. And if they are so young and impressionable that they are being dominated by parents, friends, teachers etc, I can't blame them. And if they are brain-damanged or otherwise mentally unable to consider what's happening, I can't blame them.

    But people I meet everyday, who blatantly do understand what's happening, they have a choice and it's easy. The more I talk to them about it, the more they know, the more I hate them. If I haven't talked to someone about veganism before, I don't instantly hate them because I don't know what life they've had or their opinions. But in every case so far in my life, after talking to a meat-eater for not long, it becomes clear how outrageously selfish they are, and how cruel.

    But regardless of what I think about meat-eating, I'd like to know what bmwslut's boyfriend would have to do to make her hate him. As they don't hate him for eating meat, I wonder what could possibly make her dislike him - something which didn't affect her, just something which changes her opinion of the guy because he's doing something she thinks is morally wrong.

  47. #47
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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed? How do you look at your past as a meateater?

    I wouldn't actually want to answer that question. My bf eats meat too. Why spend time thinking about what he would do to stop me loving him.
    I actually feel from some of your other posts Tombstone, that whatever bmwslut said, you would compare it with the horror of eating meat, so you are setting her/him up for a fall.

    So if someone said they would hate their partner if they raped someone, you would talk about how rape is comparible to the horrors that go on within the meat industry.

    I might be wrong about all that and I'm sorry if I am, but I don't really feel that someone should have to explain what their partner would have to do to make them hate them; it's bizarre

    I also don't think you can turn your feelings on and off. If my partner raped someone, I would be sickened, I would hate what he had done, I would end all contact with him, but I doubt my feelings of love would automatically just switch off instantly.

    I don't like that my bf eats meat, but so did I when we met. As someone else has said previously, maybe on another thread (sorry I can't remember who said it), hate the sin, not the sinner.

    Liz

  48. #48
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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed? How do you look at your past as a meateater?

    Of course I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't answer BTW, but I don't want you to feel uncomfortable and I guess I might have done if I were being asked such a question

  49. #49

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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed? How do you look at your past as a meateater?

    I see meateaters as people who not want to think. As people who only following the other people who are following the other people...
    I see them as people who are responsible for bad things... like murder of animals...

  50. #50
    Tombstone
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    Default Re: How should meateaters be viewed? How do you look at your past as a meateater?

    Quote Kumem
    I wouldn't actually want to answer that question. My bf eats meat too. Why spend time thinking about what he would do to stop me loving him.
    I actually feel from some of your other posts Tombstone, that whatever bmwslut said, you would compare it with the horror of eating meat, so you are setting her/him up for a fall.

    So if someone said they would hate their partner if they raped someone, you would talk about how rape is comparible to the horrors that go on within the meat industry.

    I might be wrong about all that and I'm sorry if I am, but I don't really feel that someone should have to explain what their partner would have to do to make them hate them; it's bizarre
    The point of the question was to establish that there in fact could possibly be something that someone could do which would make them break up with them. Then they would be breaking up with them over something which was a 'personal choice', something which wasn't directly affecting them, but still they dislike it so much that they break up. Regardless of what I think of meat-eating, the break-up would still be because of something that the person has done which is considered to be morally wrong, abhorent. Therefore, the notion that it's wrong to judge based on the 'personal lifestyle choices' of someone is not being adhered to. I have no prob with someone dating a meat-eater, I say go for it, it has no negative effect. I do find it interesting to consider how it works in the person's mind though, with strong feelings of animal rights, then feelings of love towards someone who advocates animal cruelty. I can't get my head around it.

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