Dying for Dairy

[tipsy]

theres this tofu dessert thing that i buy occasionally it comes in lime, mango, and orange flavors (maybe strawberry too??) i dont know if you can get it there, bannana, but i think it tastes allot like yogurt, and it tastes nothing like tofu... thats for sure!

but its good for you and vegan!

http://www.sunrise-soya.com/English/...tofu2godes.cfm

heres the site!

[l337_v3g4n_1]

sorry, two questions:
When freezing bananas to make a smoothie/iceccream thing, do you think using a food-processor would be ok, coz it said not to use Ice in it.

and, what's Tahini?

thanks

[Mystic]

Tahini is sesame seed paste - it is on the same level as natural peanut butter, but a totally different flavour.

[skye]

I can sympathize - dairy was my main food group! I quit smoking 1 1/2 years ago - not the first time but this time I know that's it. Not eating dairy for me has been very similar - I know all the reasons why I shouldn't, how bad it is for my health, the influence it has on my kids, I know that it could kill me yet despite all of that sometimes I still crave it (smokes + dairy). Habits are hard to break, sometimes we need to look at why we want to do something we don't really want to do. Other times I just simply miss the taste, the atmosphere whatever it is, it's okay to still crave it, but I say live without regret and follow your heart - cravings pass.

[Pilaf]

Just forget about dairy and substituting its flavor in your diet. As long as you see a vegan lifestyle as being the right one for you, for the animals and for the environment such urges will eventually pass.

[qwaychou]

I have only been vegan for a month, and I haven't had any really horrible cravings, yet. I'm sure i will. I can only hope that i come here searching for an alternative.
So far, i like soy yogurt. I'm liking the soy ice cream. But, thank you for posting the links about the dairy farms. there are new people to veganism everyday, and as they may know some things, they can't know them all. I initially gave it all up because of a sudden, unexplained aversion(no, I'm not pregnant ) But as i read on and on, so many other reasons click. This just makes sence to me.
I wish everyone the best of luck with thier decisions.

[Pilaf]

Just think of the suffering of the innocents. Dairy isn't a victimless industry. That should alleviate most cravings.

[thecatspajamas1]

After awhile the cravings will subside. Lock yourself in a room, so you can't have any. Like a cocaine addict. jk But really, it's all in your head. And it will go away.

[Morna]

When I get cravings I think about the veal calves. That shuts it down in a few seconds. Also, ask yourself what specific flavor you're craving, then find other ways to get it. Chocolate? Semi-sweet chocolate chips have no milk. Creamy soup? Puree some soft silken tofu. Tang from sour cream? Try Toffutti. Milk? Vanilla Rice Milk is very yummy. Parmesean saltiness? Brine-packed olives, capers, or just plain salt.

[jhenn]

Hi. New here. Anyway I have been lacto-ovo vegetarian for a couple weeks now. Thing is I'm having a hard time giving up dairy mostly, but also things with egg added like donuts. I don't really crave eating eggs, but I do crave things like donuts and sugary cereal. I don't have the money to order all those things but vegan. I was wondering if anyone has any tips on cutting out the dairy. I think a big problem with me is I'm not too into the whole philosophy. I mean I'm lacto-ovo veg like I said, but watching meet your meat doesn't make me cry or anything, I don't know why. Well I await your responses.

[abrennan]

sounds like you're addicted to sugar.

The less you have the less you'll crave

[treehugga]

Some people are more sensitive than others re different things. I can't stand the sight of blood but some can, everyone's affected differently and at different levels.

I suggest you give up dairy gradually. Maybe start by using soy margarine instead of dairy spreads. Use a mix of half and half soy or nut milk with your usual milk and gradually cut it out.

It's really about finding substitutes for the things you love to eat and getting used to them.

I'm a give it all up at once person and deal, but that does not suit everyone.

Most people seem to struggle with giving up cheese more than other dairy. Search the web for some cheese substitute recipes and experiment. Think of it as an exiting new adventure.

Sugar is poison and very addictive, maybe try stevia as a substitute until you feel more in control.

[the_marmite_kid]

hello, it might be worth looking around for vegan options of the things you love, in the uk some supermarkets sell donuts thats are vegan anyway and you might not have to give up eating them.

i was a vegetarian for years before becoming vegan, i had just been getting on with life and one day bought a book to re-affirm my vegetarianism and was shocked by the suffering animals have to endure so that we can have milk and cheese etc.

i never thought i could give up cheese, i ate it everyday. i slowly gave up things one by one. first eggs as i only ever ate them if they were in pastry etc, then milk, converting to soya milk wasnt as much fun at first. it was like going from full fat milk to skimmed but after a while i preferred soya milk (the sweetened with apple juice variety)

cheese was the last to go, i started replacing sandwiches with vegan spread a couple of times a week, ate pizza without cheese (surprisingly nice and how pizza was first eaten)

or you could try going vegan for a week, see how feels. its not easy at first, i struggled a little but ended up trying food i never would have before. i now eat better and more varied than ever before.

[Hemlock]

I used to love cheese - cheese was my life Then I did a few meditations alone in my bedroom. i went into my usual meditative state and imagined the cruelty of the dairy industry, the disease and the plight of the calves ripped away from their mothers and sent off to veal farms.
Then imagined all that fat in the cheese going through my body in disgusting fatty globules solidifying in my arteries causing disease and premature death.
After that I'd visualise a bright white light flooding my body and soul and cleansing me of death and disease and then just see what nice images popped up.
Works for me *Jhenn thinking "nutter"*

[tabitha]

Yes, cheese was my main thing. I dont crave it at all. I dont crave anything much anymore. Although when I go out for a meal, I wish there was a nice stodgy pudding on the menu I could have. Although Im not tempted by the ones that are there. It just makes me angry because it would be so easy to put a couple of vegan puds on the menu.

[poppy seed]

Looking back over the past year, I can honestly say that becoming vegan was a lot, LOT easier than I had anticipated. I think it was actually harder to become L/O years ago, than making the switch from L/O to vegan.

Get a couple of good cookbooks and learn to make some cookies/treats for yourself. I always have some ginger cookies in the freezer waiting for me. Just knowing they are there makes giving up the scones and doughnuts in the coffee shop so much easier (and cheaper!)

Cheese can be a bit of a problem. But there are excellent substitutions for cream cheese, sour cream and mayonnaise. Start with those, and you may soon discover that foregoing cheese is not nearly as difficult as you would have thought.

Indulge your taste buds with dark chocolate, nut butters, hummus and guacamole (maybe not all at the same time, though....) Make the change as fun for yourself as possible. It really isn't that you are "giving up" something - what you are getting is a cleaner diet and a clearer conscious.

[jhenn]

Thanks for the responses.

I think my problem is the mentally I'm only at a lacto-ovo level of committment. I know dairy is rape basically but I have a hard time committing to veganism because A. I'm not that committed, and B. I love dairy a lot.

Someone said I"m probably just addiceted to sugar and I thiink that could be correct. I'll have to start making some vegan things with sugar.

Deep down I really want to go vegan, but its hard.

[Seaside]

Well at least you're honest about it jhenn. I don't know how to help people develop more commitment. But its definitely a necessity.

[Wildflower]

You say you aren't into the whole philosophy, so why are you trying to go vegan? I think if you know the reason you want to cut out animal products, it makes it easier to do so in a way that works for you. For example, if you are avoiding for health reasons, then maybe it is OK with you to have small amounts of dairy as occasional treats.

I think when we crave cheese or cream sauces in a meal, we are really looking for something rich and fatty to balance out the meal. The best thing for me, was allowing myself fatty things in place of cheese - guacamole and olives on mexican foods, avacado slices, nut butters, vegan margarine, olive oil, olive spreads on sandwiches, vegan pestos on sandwiches, bread, pasta, lasagnas. Chocolate on fruit. Cheese or cheese subsituite don't seem necessary to me...

I was a big cheese eater as a veggie - lowfat cheese was protien for me. Here is what worked for me - I cut out "hidden dairy" first. I just started buying rice mixes, soups, etc that were dairy free. I switched to soymilk, so I used that to cook mashed potatoes, cakes, cookies, and anything else that called for milk. Also used it in coffee/tea.

I allowed myself to eat plain unhidden cheese on things, if I "needed" to. For example, I didn't see anything else on the menu while eating out, etc.

I tried to be patient, over time, it was easier and easier for me to say no to cheese. It didn't even taste good anymore, it was just natural to NOT eat it.

You know, you can make your own donuts at home. You can make vegan versions of everything at home for cheap, you don't need to buy expensive vegan foods. Try indulging by making your own vegan donuts, cookies, cakes, pastries, etc. Also, I don't know what cereal you buy with milk in it (only one I know is Alpen), but there are lots of vegan cereals - and most that aren't have honey. Cereal shouldn't be a problem.

[Wildflower]

Sorry, I just saw that you posted again saying you don't yet feel comitted. In that case, why not just try to cut down on dairy/eggs instead of forbidding them completly? It seems you know you want to go vegan, you just aren't ready yet. There is nothing to say it has to be all or nothing for you. You can cut out eggs/dairy from what you eat every day, and still allow yourself to eat it sometimes, as a treat, when eating away from home, etc.

IMO, it's whatever works for you. Every little bit counts, and if you are more likely to stick with a plan that allows a little dairy now and then, that is still better for your health, animals and the environment than eating it every meal a day.

[portiakitty]

I agree that if you push yourself too hard, too fast, then you will end up bunking the whole thing. Go easy on yourself! Try to focus on (or figure out) why you're doing this in the first place.
It's so ironic that for a lot of us, cheese was the last to go. Cheese isn't even vegetarian! Unless you pay the big bucks for vegetarian cheese (which really is a contradiction in terms) it usually contains renet, which is about as non veg as it gets!
Anyway, I found for myself, educating myself of the issues surounding dairy helped me sort out where I stood with it, which, once I did learn the whole story, was a no brainer. I too had a harder time with the items that contained 'hidden' eggs and dairy, such as baked goods. I just reminded myself of the reality of those ingrediants, and it became easier. I also think that as it was mentioned earlier, that the real culprit was a sugar addiction. I didn't think I had one, but there it was - baked goods staring me in the face, taunting me to 'cheat'. After a few months of dilligently reminding myself of the suffering behind that little git of egg or drop of dairy hidden in that muffin ( and the pus), I am no longer longing for them.
As for cheap alternatives, I think just a good understanding of cooking chemistry is all you need. Satan is easy and cheap to make, so is nut milk. Eggs can be replaced in baking by using a variety of things, including bananas. These can all be found easily on the old web.

Good luck!

[jhenn]

The thing is I like the bad dairy, like half-and-half in my cereal and whole milk with cookies, and whole milk pizza cheese. I don't crave skim milk and fat free cheese . I'm starting to believe Neal Barnard where he says that dairy and eggs have addictive properties. I think if I just stick it out for a while I will lose the cravings.

[portiakitty]

After a while, when you notice the cravings are gone you'll really get how addictive they are!
You will also most likely notice a huge improvement in your health! I don't mean to imply or assume that you are currently unhealthy, but I'm sure you will notice that you feel better.
Hang in there - I know I sound biased, but your doing a great thing! The transition is tougher for some, and it's never a breeze. But one day you'll be tucking into your avacado sandwich and it'll occure to you that not only do you not miss having animal products in your meals, but that don't want it there at all!

[Bluey]

...but then the cravings start for unhealthy vegan food...mm..chocolate milk is a real killer...

[portiakitty]

do you mean chocolate soy milk? Yeah, that stuff's pretty good! Do nothing beats chocolate almond milk! That is just liquid heaven! Mmmmm!!!!!!!

[Jane M]

Eventually, cow's milk, even hidden in foods makes you feel ucky. It's strange in a way but it really even gives food a funny taste.

[jhenn]

Guys I really believe I am addicted to sugar.

[portiakitty]

Sometimes sugar cravings are indicitive of low iron levels. Also, drinking water can often stave off a sugar craving. It also has the added effect of helping to cleanse out all the sugur and other toxins you don't need.
Maybe eating more fruit will also help tame your sweet tooth? I know I am guilty of not always eating as much fresh fruit as I should.

[Jane M]

I try to counter the sugar cravings with things like dates and dried fruit. True, I am stll getting sugar from them but I tell myself it is a more natural sugar.

[Pilaf]

Depending on where you live, you could get ahold of vegan, organic doughnuts and thing. I think sugar/fat seems to be your biggest problem, not the dairy itself. You'll just have to keep the ethical reasons to avoid foods with dairy in mind. That'll help the most when getting through it.

[Nest]

I'm starting to believe Neal Barnard where he says that dairy and eggs have addictive properties. I think if I just stick it out for a while I will lose the cravings.

I was a l/o vegetarian for 25 yrs and I went off chocolate & cheese cold-turkey (or should that be cold-tofu?) in January this year. I was totally addicted to cheese I used to eat it with every meal and I used to pay the big bucks for vegetarian cheese too (As Portiakitty already said, the stuff is expensive!).

I was climbing the walls for a while but the wonderful people around here helped me alot.

Now I rarely think about cheese. I certainly don't crave it anymore - as a matter of fact, the idea of eating it makes me feel queasy. I have a little vegan chocolate as a treat now and again - but I'm working on cutting out sugar too. (Cane sugar that is - I eat fruit.)

Anyway, best of luck and keep us posted.

[jhenn]

Yay guys! I had my first breakfast without dairy today! This is a landmark event as I always have milk and donuts or cereal for breakfast.

EDIT: I should say this breakfast still had a lot of sugar in it (peanut butter, juice, two fruits).

[puffin]

Thats great jhenn. Keep it up and you will get there. It does get easier i promise

[jhenn]

Yeah I think I'm going to give up dairy before I give up sugar. The only problem is I told my mom I would continue to eat dairy because it makes life easier for her making meals, etc... I really do want to give up dairy though and I guess I just need to tell her.

[jhenn]

yay just had a dairy-free lunch!

[portiakitty]

You go!
They may be a wee bit over the top, but here's what vegan lunch's can be:

http://veganlunchbox.blogspot.com/

Just a little encourement and inspiration

[jhenn]

Oh wow this is a really cool blog. Thanks you've given me something to do.

[jhenn]

Okay I went that day that I was posting without dairy at all, but yesterday my brother, his friends, and I decide to order pizza. As non-vegans they wanted cheese so we got cheese. However that was the only dairy I had. I'm at work this morning and I was late and I didn't eat breakfast so I had some cake and cookies that we had left over from some event. I feel really bad though. I believe that I am addicted to sugar and not dairy though. For example instead of a latte I had a coffee the other day with lots of sugar and it satisfied me fine (no cream). I would really like a soy latte now though

[puffin]

I love soya lattes, but i still need sugar. I usually dip some chocolate in it
jhenn, i think it would be wise is you stocked up on some vegan cookies and chocs. You can carry some around with you so if you need to snack then you wont be tempted to just buy a dairy cookie.
There are plenty of vegan websites that have an amazing amount of sweet treats for vegans.

[jhenn]

Yeah I think tommorow I may go to the local health food store and stock up on some vegan goodies. It will be hard not to eat them all at once though

[portiakitty]

Unfortunatly their web site seems to be down at the moment, but in the next day or so try vegsource (they've just moved, it used to be .org, but now it's supposed to be .com, though I'm not having any luck with this at the moment). Anyway - there you will find ALL the help you need on this! In addition to a lot of really useful articles, there are not one, but two vegan recipe sites. One is a recipe data base, the other is a hosted by a very tallented can solve anything, find a recipe for anything, veganise anything woman.
I'm so sorry I can't give you the link right now - hopefully this wonder site will be back up soon - they've been out in operation for ever, so I doubt they've disapeared.

[jhenn]

Yeah I'm familiar with veg source. They maintain a pretty decent site and are affiliated with a lot of wonderful professionals who have a lot of good material available. I was thinking of buying their healthy life expo dvds but they're a tad pricey, plus I stopped buying dvds altogether because they are secret encrypted disks which are illegal to play with free software.

[portiakitty]

It's back up now:
http://www.vegsource.com/
Ask "Chef Deb" - she'll help you!
This is another good one, but don't take offence: I'm not saying I think you're fat! In fact, I picture you as one of these people who can eat anything without gaining a pound...
http://www.fatfreevegan.com/faqs.shtml
Just a lot of good recipe ideas, and a lot of great desert / baked goods that are a little lower in refined sugar.

C

[portiakitty]

Guess we posted at the same time.
So - what happens when you play dvds with free software?
What about burned or free shared dvds on 'legal' software?

[Blix]

Yeah I think I'm going to give up dairy before I give up sugar. The only problem is I told my mom I would continue to eat dairy because it makes life easier for her making meals, etc... I really do want to give up dairy though and I guess I just need to tell her.

If you get on well with your mother, she may well experiment and become vegan herself. Just try, oh, I don't know, well, just try something like custard made with soya milk and see what she says. You know, all the things people who eat what they consider to be normal. If she doesn't like it, try it with half goats milk and half soya milk. You do get used to it.
I tried totally vegan for a while and reverted to dairy. Goats milk instead of cows milk. Then I thought of the little billy kids who will go to the slaughter house just because they are little boys. So here I am, trying to go vegan again. My trouble is that I am permanently ill and I get really fatigued. I find it easier to eat 'normally' when I am at my worse. Then again, vegetable and fruit juices are a good standby in these times. They become the main meal instead of the sideline. I would like to know if vitamins and other nutrition gets destroyed in the freezer. I would really like to make a lot of meals when I am well and freeze them for the times when I am out of it. Can anyone advise me on this?

[jhenn]

Guess we posted at the same time.
So - what happens when you play dvds with free software?
What about burned or free shared dvds on 'legal' software?

It is illegal to play dvds with free software. When I talk about free software I'm talking about free as in speech, not as in beer. Its not the same but its mostly like open source software. To play dvds you have to give up your freedom by using propreitary non-free software. It is possible to play dvds with free software but in most countries to do so is breaking the law. The Digital Millenium Copyright Act makes it illegal to break copyright protection on dvds, which is why DeCSS (the free software dvd decoder) is illegal in the United States. I refuse to buy DVD's because they are secret encrypted disks that I can't play with free software. I will however watch a dvd if someone breaks the encryption and shares the file with me in another format, like ogg theora. I am not against sharing files with your neighbor through P2P and bittorrent. Sharing with your neighbor is not the moral equivalent to attacking a ship like the companies would have you believe. Sharing makes for a good society with a strong spirit of goodwill, and I will continue file sharing even if it is illegal.

If you want to learn how to play dvds in free software I can help you in private, but I encourage you not to buy dvds but instead to download things you might want to watch.

HDTV is also an assault on our freedoms, as well as Digital Restrictions Management, aka DRM like in itunes music store.

If you want to find out more check out http://www.gnu.org/philosophy or http://www.eff.org

[jhenn]

...

I doubt my mom would go vegan because she thinks God made animals for us to eat.

And I also have an illness, but the vegan diet has been shown for all stages of life if properly planned. The ADA which is probably the biggest diet org on the planet confirmed this, and they are compromised of professionals.

If your fatigued your probably not getting a lot of calories. If you don't have money on food focus on beans and rice. Beans and rice and carbs will fill you up but vegetables will not, but you still need some vegetables.

[portiakitty]

For sage advice about health, go to:
http://www.pcrm.org/index.html
Could also provide some helpful arguments for Mother's who feel that eating meat is the way to go.

[jhenn]

Hey everybody. Its been a few days since I have last posted, but I just need to share some things with you guys.

Sometimes I do not have animal products with meals, but sometimes I do. Sometimes I feel bad about it and sometimes I don't. I should say that since going vegetarian I have not ate meat except once when I went freegan and had some pizza with pig on it. It didn't really bother me because I knew that this pizza would just be thrown out if I didn't eat it.

Now for other sitiautions where I conciously consume dairy, like I said sometimes I feel bad about it and sometimes I don't. I guess I have taken a pretty big step in going vegetarian and not eating any meat, fish, or fowl. I probably did eat some cheese with rennet in it though becuase I don't always check.

I have a lot of good vegan cookbooks including Vegan with a Vengence, Students vegetarian cookbook, and a few others.

I live with my mother and I she knows I'm lacto-ovo vegetarian. However she doesn't know that I really want to go vegean. Do you guys think I should tell her this?

I think since I have money in the bank I will start riding my bike to the store to get food. There is a mexican/asian market within biking distance near my house, as well as a big commericial supermarket. I could fill up my backpack with like beans and rice (dry) and other stuff.

I really don't understand why I'm not more strongly associated with veganism and animal rights. I don't really have a burning passion for it, but deep down I know its right. Does anyone have any tips or comments? Thanks guys.

[tabitha]

Hi there Jhen! - So if someone asked you why you are vegetarian what would you say?. Then again if someone asked you why you want to go vegan what would you say to that? There must be some sort of passion in you to do this otherwise you wouldnt bother.