What's wrong with (partially) hydrogenated vegetable oils?

[freeweatherfield]

Hey all,
ok, i know they're disgusting and bad for you. but can someone explain to me why, like how they affect the body? (keeping in mind they're writing to a potential art or sociology major ) connection to veganism: i eat lots of peanut butter, and have given up the good ol' skippy. but would like to know why it's bad.

[harpy]

1) They contain trans fats, which are are thought to clog your arteries, like saturated fats only more so - http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2003/503_fats.html

2) They are also thought to clog your brain
http://www.fi.edu/brain/fats.htm

Unfortunately they are in a lot of vegan convenience foods, such as biscuits and pastries, here in the UK anyway - think the US may have gone further with eliminating them

Harpy (arts and social sciences )

[mattd]

Natural and Organic peanut butter usually doesn't have the partially hydrogenated oils. You usually just have the mix it up before using it each time since the oil seperates from the rest of the peanut butter.

[cedarblue]

[QUOTE=harpy]1) They contain trans fats, which are are thought to clog your arteries, like saturated fats only more so - http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2003/503_fats.html

2) They are also thought to clog your brain
http://www.fi.edu/brain/fats.htm

Unfortunately they are in a lot of vegan convenience foods, such as biscuits and pastries, here in the UK anyway - think the US may have gone further with eliminating them






so - they're vegan but they're crap! useful!

[harpy]

vegan but they're crap!

A fair summary

It's probably OK to eat them now and then. Some vegan products contain palm oil instead which used to be considered reprehensible but is now thought to be not quite as bad as the hydrogenated stuff as far as I can gather

I wasn't really aware of the hydrogenation thing myself until recently but I discovered I had "borderline high" cholesterol despite having been a vegan for 10 years. I suspect eating stuff with hydrogenated oils too often, plus not taking enough exercise, had something to do with it as my diet was otherwise not too bad. I have attempted to rectify both but haven't been back for a recount yet...

[foxytina_69]

what is wrong with hydrogenated oils. are they from animals at all, or are they just bad because they are saturated?

[harpy]

They are all vegetable as far as I know but they are now thought, by some people at least, to be even worse for your cardio-vascular system than saturated fats. There is loads of stuff about it on the web, e.g. http://heartdisease.about.com/cs/cho...a/Transfat.htm (Sorry about fish oil references - substitute "flax" )

They are also thought to be bad for your brain. http://www.fi.edu/brain/fats.htm (again not a very vegan-friendly site - sorry)

[foxytina_69]

thanx harpy

So what is the health-conscious consumer to do?

There are three basic steps to reducing the amount of "bad" fat in the diet and substituting "good" fat. First, avoid the saturated fatty acids found in meat and dairy products, as well as the tropical oils (palm and coconut.) Second, avoid trans fatty acids by steering clear of commercially fried foods, high-fat baked goods, and stick margarines. Third, whenever possible substitute one of the natural unsaturated vegetable oils, listed above, in recipes calling for stick margarine, butter, or lard.

Nobody ever said life was going to be easy.

obviously its pretty easy for a vegan!

[eve]

Thank you Harpy for those urls; they make for interesting reading (though I tend to skip anything that recommends consuming fish).

I'm glad to have stopped consuming margarine a long time ago, especially as it reads that studies show trans fatty acids get incorporated into brain cell membranes, including the myelin sheath that insulates neurons, replacing the natural DHA in the membrane, which affects the electrical activity of the neuron. Trans fatty acid molecules disrupt communication, setting the stage for cellular degeneration and diminished mental performance. Of course transfatty acids are in margarines, with the hydrogenation making the vegetable oils spreadable.

[harpy]

obviously its pretty easy for a vegan!

Yes, the main pitfalls for us seem to be things like biscuits and pastry which (if vegan) often include hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated oils - they do here (UK) anyway. Fortunately those aren't an essential part of the diet! The ones made with unhydrogenated palm oil and coconut oil now look like a better choice, if one is going to eat that sort of thing.

Eve, I agree that the fish oil recommendations are a turn-off, but I think there's something in the idea of including omega 3 oils, don't you? Too bad flax etc rarely gets a mention in the govt advice.

You can get vegan margarine that's supposedly free of hydrogenated fat here but I can't really see the point of margarine anyway. I suppose if you wanted to do baking it would be useful though.

[foxytina_69]

as it reads that studies show trans fatty acids get incorporated into brain cell membranes, including the myelin sheath that insulates neurons, replacing the natural DHA in the membrane, which affects the electrical activity of the neuron. Trans fatty acid molecules disrupt communication, setting the stage for cellular degeneration and diminished mental performance.

ugh!

[Sabster]

They raise cholesterol levels and have possible links to cancer .... I've read a lot of articles on the whole thing... but the whole carcinogen thing is enough for me... in general I try to avoid trans fat containing food items as much as possible (and as stated before it's not that hard being a vegan even though are still vegan processed foods out there that do have hydrogenated/or partially hydrogenated oils in them....). But I do my best and my only exception would be a weekend w the parents when the hydrogenated p.b. is one of the few vegan snacks around (when I neglect to bring my own food... laziness... but I usually take the basics w me when I go up..).

[gertvegan]

www.tfx.org.uk - the campaign against trans fats in food

[gertvegan]

Between 82 and 274 deaths every single day from trans fats!!!

"By our most conservative estimate, replacement of partially hydrogenated fat in the U.S. diet with natural unhydrogenated vegetable oils would prevent approximately 30,000 premature coronary deaths per year, and epidemiologic evidence suggests this number is closer to 100,000 premature deaths annually."

www.bantransfats.com

[celtic rose]

Hydrogenated fats/oils are trans fats and are very very bad for the heart. Worse than saturated fat appararently.

[veganblue]

Ahhh but why? I am curious as to the difference between a hydrogenated fat and a saturated one?

[PolluxStar]

why is this not vegan?

[feline01]

Who said it wasn't? As far as I know, it's vegan. It's absolutely 100% horrible health-wise. It solidifies in your body and causes blocked arteries.

[Peas'nHominy]

Who said it wasn't? As far as I know, it's vegan. It's absolutely 100% horrible health-wise. It solidifies in your body and causes blocked arteries.

Yes, I agree. I don't think it contains animal proteins, but a book I got from the Vegan Society says to steer clear of hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated oils. Like feline said, I think it's because it's so unhealthy.

I like olive oil.

[Tigerlily]

Like Feline and Peas, I agree. Hydrogenated oils are vegan. BUT a lot of margarines (they mostly hydrogenated) contain whey which is a dairy product and also Vitamin D3 which is animal derived. So in that sense, hydrogenated margarine isn't vegan. I heard Earth Balance, a non-hydrogenated, non-GMO, and vegan margarine is pretty good. I am not a margarine person and wasn't even a butter person before becoming vegan, so I haven't tried it.

I love olive oil too. I only cook with it.

[PolluxStar]

I was asking cuz I got to this vegan resturant and I eat the chips there.

and I bought some of my own regular corn chips

and it has that oil in it , now 2 me I haven't ate fatty things for almost a year , this is a change , I eat fatty stuff now

so I thought I would try 2 eat things with fat in it , so I eat the chips now , but I should stay away from them huh?

[Artichoke47]

so I thought I would try 2 eat things with fat in it , so I eat the chips now , but I should stay away from them huh?

Yes, but there are non-hydrogenated oil chips available, too. Do you have a health-food store near you?

Healthy fats are also found in nuts, nut butters, avocados, olive oil, flaxseeds (grind 'em up for some omega 3!), and other seeds.

[Peas'nHominy]

I heard Earth Balance, a non-hydrogenated, non-GMO, and vegan margarine is pretty good.

Yes, it's gooood!! I just had some this morning on my Genesis bread. YUM!

I vote stay away from the hydrogenated oils. Are you looking for the occasional crunchy/salty snack, or do you need to actually increase your fat intake? (ignore me if I'm getting too personal )

[PolluxStar]

Yes, it's gooood!! I just had some this morning on my Genesis bread. YUM!

I vote stay away from the hydrogenated oils. Are you looking for the occasional crunchy/salty snack, or do you need to actually increase your fat intake? (ignore me if I'm getting too personal )

I don't know I've been on a eating disorder so long , now I feel weak n tired , I'm trying 2 have a balance day of healthy fats n Protein

but Protein mostly...

[eve]

No wonder you're feeling weak and tired, if your choice of food is chips! If you need fat, why not put a dessertspoonful of flaxseed oil onto a salad, and eat 3 or 4 brazil nuts, etc.

[Artichoke47]

Eat plenty of fruits and vegetables as well, and also drink the recommended amount of water. Good luck.

[kriz]

I don't mind fatty stuff - but I do try to stay clear of hydrogenated oils. Earth Balance is the only margarine I would consider using at the moment. I don't think it's healthy to follow a completely fat-free vegan diet, unless it's just temporary to lose a few pounds. Even for weight loss I would rather cut my portions than eliminate all oils.

[Artichoke47]

I don't know if someone would lose weight on a fat-free diet. I imagine after a few days of deprivation, they'd binge on some tablespoons of peanut butter or other fatty food. lol


ETA: When I lost weight, it was due to reduction in calories and exercise. I really didn't care about fat.

[Peas'nHominy]

I don't know I've been on a eating disorder so long , now I feel weak n tired , I'm trying 2 have a balance day of healthy fats n Protein

but Protein mostly...

(Y'all please do correct me if I'm wrong...)

Maybe you could keep those little snack bags of peanuts and nuts around; it will be crunchy and salty , but will have protein and good fat.

Also, I've heard eating a banana and piece of bread (sprouted is best) for your morning meal can help with your energy level all day. And the banana's got some good fat in it too. You could have some soy milk with it; it's got protein.

Eating disorders are not something to take lightly. (You don't have to answer this question but...) are you getting help? You are worth it to have help with this; you should not be alone in it.

*Lots of luv*

[Kiva Dancer]

I would not recommend a fat-free vegan diet at all. We need some fats to keep our bodies going and cutting out those fats, IMO, would not be good at all.

I'm speaking only about vegan whole foods.

IMO, if a person has to cut fats, then a moderate fat diet is better than a fat-free diet.

[Tigerlily]

Fat-free foods still contain calories. In fact, a lot of fat-free foods that are pre-packaged are full of sugar, just to make up fro the "fat loss".

[Kiva Dancer]

I don't like fat-free packaged foods. There's just something sooooo unnatural about the stuff they have to put in it order to get the fat out.

[kriz]

Fat-free and low-carb is gross

[Seaside]

This is from Dr. Andrew Weil:

"The purpose of hydrogenating oils is to harden them to improve their spreadability, mouth-feel, baking qualities, and, especially, to extend the shelf life of products made from them. To hydrogenate an oil, manufacturers heat it to high temperatures 120 - 210 degrees C or 248 - 410 degrees F with hydrogen gas under pressure in the presence of metal catalysts (usually nickel, sometimes platinum) for six to eight hours."

Natural oils have a structure that is called "cis" - as opposed to artificial oils which have their natural cis structure warped by hydrogenation into what we know is called "trans". I hope I'm not getting too technical, but our cell membranes are adapted to absorbing natural cis structures only, and cannot deal with the artificial trans structure. Cis oils are liquid, trans oils are solid, like saturated fats, but unlike saturated fats, cause more trouble than just clogging arteries. They interfere with cellular function at the membrane level, and cause free-radical damage throughout our bodies. Free-radical damage is at the root of premature ageing, decreased immunity, and development of degenerative disease and cancer.

Since hydrogenated oils were initially developed to enable food manufacturers to use the cheapest oils possible in their production, and then to cut losses by making the foods they contain virtually indestructible on the shelf, it seems to me that the most important reason for their existence is to increase profits for food manufacturers rather than to increase the health of the people expected to consume them, or to provide a viable alternative to animal-based products.

Fat free diets are not safe. The brain is 60% fat, and is the body's #1 maintenance priority. People do need some saturated fat, too (a popular argument against vegan diets amongst nutritional specialists) and pure coconut and palm oils are good sources. These fats have been maligned by the Western soybean oil industry, but Polynesian natives have thrived on these foods for thousands of years, and I think it is much better to provide a market for these tropical vegan foods than to have them chopping down their rain forests to provide grazing land for cattle.

[eve]

This thread asks "What's wrong with (partially) hydrogenated vegetable oils?".
What about partially poisonous bread? Would you eat it?

[veganblue]

This is from Dr. Andrew Weil:
...Natural oils have a structure that is called "cis" - as opposed to artificial oils which have their natural cis structure warped by hydrogenation into what we know is called "trans"...

Great post Seaside, very informative - thanks!

[veganblue]

More interesting information on trans fats and why we should be avoiding them / requesting to have them labelled on packaging. The article says that there are more problems with saturated fats but that is not a huge issue for vegans unless you are eating loads of palm oil or coconuts.

http://www.abc.net.au/health/thepulse/s1371577.htm

[littleTigercub]

A fair summary

It's probably OK to eat them now and then. Some vegan products contain palm oil instead which used to be considered reprehensible but is now thought to be not quite as bad as the hydrogenated stuff as far as I can gather

I believe it was FatLand but I am not sure, but somewhere I have read that palm fats are unfit for consumption unless they go through a very elaborate process of adultering.

Re. hydrogenated fats not being a problem for vegans - I understand this is more due to the fact that vegans tend to cook their meals from scratch rather than relying on convenience foods. If you eat a lot of pastries, crisps and bisquits, you are probably getting more than some otherwise healthy eating omnivores.

littleTigercub

[veganblue]

Re. hydrogenated fats not being a problem for vegans - I understand this is more due to the fact that vegans tend to cook their meals from scratch rather than relying on convenience foods. If you eat a lot of pastries, crisps and bisquits, you are probably getting more than some otherwise healthy eating omnivores.

littleTigercub

*Hydrogenated* fats are a problem for vegans since we sometimes either use hydrogenated oils or eat foods with hydrogenous fats in them, but you are absolutely right that vegans are more likely to be making from scratch such things as pastry, biscuits and cakes that often call for replacements for butter. Most of these spreadable vegetable based margarines are hydrogenated since only then will they set at room temperature.

*Saturated* fats are 'better' for you than the trans fat variety but of course, only if you have a balanced level of saturated to poly and mono unsaturated fats. These are the ones found in coconuts and palm oil which are both over 80% saturated fats in the unhydrogenated forms. Nothing else really comes close in the vegetable realm apart from macadamia nuts - but these are not *bad* fats, just energy dense fats so if you need to, make sure that you don't eat to many. Saturated fats are better to cook with also since they have a much more stable molecular form, whereas polyunsaturated fats should be heated as little as possible.

Olive oil is a great cooking choice since it is high in monounsaturated fats (73.9% of total fat content)- more energy dense than polyunsaturated but also more stable when heated. It is also high in Vit E and Vit K.

100 grams of plain salted potato crisps contain half of your daily average energy needs (35 grams of fat) and curiously, half of your Vitamin C rdi. Who would've thought!

[Juice]

Today I was looking at a line of dog treats that are made with "all-natural, human grade ingredients". I got pissed when I saw one of the flavors included a partially hydrogenated oil. It's one thing for humans to clog themselves but the dogs can't know any better.

[FR]

Unfortunately they are in a lot of vegan convenience foods, such as biscuits and pastries, here in the UK anyway - think the US may have gone further with eliminating them

Harpy (arts and social sciences )

Yeah here, most vegan conveniece foods use non-hydrogenated oils.

[Wildflower]

Today I was looking at a line of dog treats that are made with "all-natural, human grade ingredients". I got pissed when I saw one of the flavors included a partially hydrogenated oil. It's one thing for humans to clog themselves but the dogs can't know any better.

That sucks! We humans need to look out for the nutrition of our doggies for them, and I would never let my dog eat partially hydrogenated oils.

[aubergine]

About time, although this only affects own-brand foods.

http://www.express.co.uk/news_detail.html?sku=270

[cedarblue]

its a start though - it all has to start somewhere.

[aubergine]

Absolutely. I'm surprised this hasn't got more press.

[Veggie4Life139]

Hello everyone~I was just wondering with the recent craze on trans fats~can vegans get them? I heard they can come from vegetable oil after it's fried to a certain temperature, and from many animal products. Thanks for any answers you can give me!

[Wishin986]

Trans Fats can be found in vegan food - well I think its mostly in highly processed vegan food. I would just check the labels because they have to list how many grams of trans fat there are in products now I believe.

[DancingWillow]

they have to list how many grams of trans fat there are in products now I believe.

depends where you live...

[Pob]

Heating oils by frying will form small amounts of trans fats. Using saturated and mono-unsaturated oils (olive for instance) for frying will minimise the amount of trans fat that will be formed.