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Thread: Seitan and seitan recipes

  1. #1

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    Wink Seitan and seitan recipes

    I tried to make my own seiten last night and it was a total disaster! I made the dough all right and soaked it for 20 minutes in warm water. So far so good. Then I proceeded to rinse the starch out and slowly it began to disintegrate until it was a gooey mess. I though if I cooked it in stock it would be ok but I ended up with dumplings!

    I'm bummed. I spent over 2 hrs making dumplings.

    Can anyone help me out.. Possibly what went wrong, experiences, suggestions??? Does anyone even like seiten?

    Thanks!
    Carve a pumpkin, Go to prison! :eek:

  2. #2
    tasha's Avatar
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    Default Re: HELP!! My seiten was a disaster

    I love seitan. I have my own version of it, not sure if it is technically seitan, but it tastes the same to me--if not better. And it is EASY to do!
    This makes "quite" a bit of seitan, so you can cut all of the ingrediants in half if you like.

    Gluten steak (seitan)
    3 cups gluten flour
    1 cup whole wheat flour
    4 tbsp. brewer’s yeast
    ¾ tsp. poultry seasoning (or a blend of sage, rosemary, & thyme)
    ¼ soya sauce
    3 cups water

    Broth
    12 cups water
    ½ cup soya sauce
    3 tbsp. oil
    4 tbsp. poultry seasoning (or a blend of sage, rosemary, & thyme)
    1 tbsp. salt
    4 onions

    Mix all gluten steak ingredients. It works best using your hands.
    Let stand for 20 minutes.
    Mix all broth ingredients into large pot. Bring to a boil.
    While broth is heating up, knead wheat steak ingredients again, then mould into long roll.
    Slice roll into ¼” pieces. (Or slice and roll into small “wheat balls”)
    Place into boiling broth, reduce heat, cover and simmer for 1 hour.

    *it expands quite a bit in pot!
    *these do look like dumplings at first, but let'em sit for a bit--they will slice nicely.
    *store in the broth in fridge.

    I love the texture and usually fry slices with soy sauce and make yummy sandwiches.

  3. #3
    Geoff
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    Default Re: HELP!! My seiten was a disaster

    There's a little book called, I think, 'The Gentle Persuasion Cookbook' by Brook Katz which has a few seitan recipies, which have always worked for me.

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    Default Re: HELP!! My seitan was a disaster

    Thanks for the replies. I can't wait to try this again!
    Carve a pumpkin, Go to prison! :eek:

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    Default Re: HELP!! My seitan was a disaster

    When I have time this weekend I'll find the link I use for my seitan. I think it's much more economical and less wasteful (water) to use gluten instead of flour. If you had rinsed the messy dough you had in the water many more times, it would have firmed up. This method really wastes water. When using the method with gluten, you must mix it rather quickly and too much liquid is better than too little or you will have some dense, dry, chewy parts.

    I have tried every wrong way to make seitan. I now make about 10 pounds every 6-8 weeks and freeze it. It's definitely worth your while to learn how to make it well (especially if you have omnivores to feed )

    Actually, I think the above recipe is the same one I use!! The brewer's yeast is the same as nutritional yeast. Less of the whole wheat flour will give it a firmer texture. I sometimes use half whole wheat and half white flour, again less giving a firmer texture. The most important part is to mix all the dry thoroughly before adding the wet, then mixing the liquid first with a spoon, but finishing with your hands, almost like kneading bread, but not as long.

    If you used too much liquid, it will leak out while the dough is resting. If you used too little, the dough will be lumpy and hard in spots. You can't add more liquid at this point but it is usually okay to use.

    Good luck, and don't give up until you get it right

  6. #6

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    Default Re: HELP!! My seitan was a disaster

    Thanks for the advice. The problem I had with my messy mixture was that it just get washing down the drain. I could not separate what was glutenous dough and what was liquid. I was trying to kneed it and it wasn't coming together.

    I definately want to have seiten on hand in my freezer. It's not the first time that I something didn't come out right the first time I tried to make it and I know it won't be the last. My kitchen just had sticky dough on everything and it was drying like concrete. I was picking it off my hands for days!

    I also had tried to use 100% wheat flour and I'm going to try the mixture with glutenous flour next time.

    Thanks everyone!
    Carve a pumpkin, Go to prison! :eek:

  7. #7
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    Default Vital wheat gluten -Seitan

    Bob's red Mill brand flours makes a vital wheat gluten....does anyone know if this ( or any other vital wheat gluten flours) needs to be rinsed when trying to make seitan?

    I am a lazy boy , I like seitan but would really like to eliminate or avoid the whole knead/re-knead & rinse process from making seitan

  8. #8
    tasha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vital wheat gluten -Seitan

    I obviously have a different recipe for seitan as I don't have to rinse anything and someone else asked about seitan stating they had to rinse! (I too am lazy, and that just sounds annoying!)

    Hmmmm....mine tastes the same as the stuff I get in restaurants!!

    My recipe is in the post "help! my seitan is a disaster". I'll put it in the recipe section as well

    There is kneading involved....but it only takes a sec!
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  9. #9
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    Default Wheat beef (Seitan)

    This makes "quite" a bit of seitan, so you can cut all of the ingrediants in half if you like.

    Wheat beef (seitan)
    3 cups gluten flour
    1 cup whole wheat flour
    4 tbsp. brewer’s yeast
    ¾ tsp. poultry seasoning (or a blend of sage, rosemary, & thyme)
    ¼ soya sauce
    3 cups water

    Broth
    12 cups water
    ½ cup soya sauce
    3 tbsp. oil
    4 tbsp. poultry seasoning (or a blend of sage, rosemary, & thyme)
    1 tbsp. salt
    4 onions

    Mix all wheat beef ingredients. It works best using your hands.
    Let stand for 20 minutes.
    Mix all broth ingredients into large pot. Bring to a boil.
    While broth is heating up, knead wheat beef ingredients again, then mould into long roll.
    Slice roll into ¼” pieces. (Or slice and roll into small “wheat balls”)
    Place into boiling broth, reduce heat, cover and simmer for 1 hour.

    *it expands quite a bit in pot!
    *these do look like dumplings at first, but let'em sit for a bit--they will slice nicely.
    *store in the broth in fridge.

    I love the texture and usually fry slices with soy sauce and make yummy sandwiches.
    It is challenging to stand as a minority; but doing so sometimes makes a hero.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Vital wheat gluten -Seitan

    Quote tasha
    (I too am lazy, and that just sounds annoying!)
    I am lazy as well ....I tell you, I am OBSESSED with making seitan!!!! It's 1 am and I just got done making some "meat" balls. I cant get it to be as rubbery as the stuff I get in stores, so I think I will try again another time. Maybe I will use another type of wheat flour

  11. #11

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    Default Re: Vital wheat gluten -Seitan

    Gluten does not need to be rinsed. When making seitan out of whole wheat flour, there is a LOT of rinsing involved. If you can find a good bulk section in a healthfood store you may be lucky enough to find much cheaper gluten than the brand you mentioned.

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    Default Re: Wheat beef (Seitan)

    You can also freeze any leftover, either in a marinade, broth, or just wrapped in plastic. I've got about 10 pounds in my freezer right now.....

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Wheat beef (Seitan)

    Quote Dianecrna
    You can also freeze any leftover, either in a marinade, broth, or just wrapped in plastic. I've got about 10 pounds in my freezer right now.....
    That is definitly good news! How long can it be frozen and what is the best way (in the broth or wrapped alone)?
    It is challenging to stand as a minority; but doing so sometimes makes a hero.

  14. #14

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    Default Re: Seitan

    Mine never lasts more than 2 months, however, I have read that it can be frozen for 6 months. I make big "logs" of it, wrap several times in plastic, and freeze. I've never frozen it in broth. I have frozen it in marinade, either in a plastic container, or wrapped in plastic AFTER having marinated it overnight (saves room in the freezer this way). The taste and texture is not affected by freezing. By the way, if you marinate it then slice first as a big piece won't absorb the flavor as well.

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    Default Re: Seitan

    Ok, i tried it again, and boiled "steaks" for about an hour but when i tried taking one out it broke apart.....should i leave it in for longer than that? The "steaks" i made were still kind-a bready and i used the vital wheat gluten flour (Bob's red mill--thats all the A&P had)

  16. #16

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    Default Re: Seitan

    I leave the gluten in "loaves" when I simmer (not boil) it, about 3" by 6" and they have not fallen apart. Perhaps your seitan has too much liquid in it before adding to the stock. Did you let it rest for 15 minutes first? This is an important step. You can decrease the amount of flour in the recipe to make it more dense. Another idea is to wrap/roll the loaves or cylinders of gluten in cheese cloth and tie the ends with twine. They will keep a cylindrical shape that can then be sliced into medallions.

    Good luck.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Seitan

    Hmmm....good idea using the cheese cloth! I think my mixture had too much flour in it, that might be what made it bready, the next time around I will see what happens when I reduce this ingredient.

    BTW, the seitan I made that was bready in actuality wasn't as bready as I thought. After I simmered it, I baked pieces in the oven with BBQ sauce and it came out pretty good....the texture even improved a little.

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    Default Re: Seitan

    Eating it just after simmering is not the best taste and texture. Many times I marinated mine then dredge in a mixture of flour and ground nuts with herbs (for instance - walnuts, rosemary, salt and pepper) then pan fry in oil. This certainly changes the texture as compared to baking or broiling.

    Glad your recipe improved!

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Seitan

    Quote Dianecrna
    Many times I marinated mine then dredge in a mixture of flour and ground nuts with herbs (for instance - walnuts, rosemary, salt and pepper)
    Dianecrna, do you mix any herbs & spices into the seitan dough or the broth?

  20. #20

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    Default Re: Seitan

    When I am making "chicken" style seitan I will usually mix ground sage, rosemary and thyme into the dry mix first. I am away from my computer at the moment but I will try to find the recipe I first started using and put the link here. I also add these herbs, onion, shoyu or braggs sauce and stock or broth to the pot to simmer. Then I use some of this "plain" and I marinate others. I will type in the recipes I use for marinade when I get home. I use two from the Candle Cafe restaurant cookbook.

    I just noticed that you're from Jersey! Have you been to the Candle 79 restaurant yet? I just went again with my mother this week and had an unbelievable meal. I always get new ideas for meals when I go there. They just started making their own ice cream and the waiter we had was nice enough to share the ingredients list with us. They are using soy milk, coconut milk, sweetener and fruit - I went home the next night, tried my best to figure out the ratio, used some fresh-picked strawberries and........wow, the best vegan ice cream I've had.

    Anyway, they have been my inspiration for seitan. They also do some great things with tempeh but I'm not yet to their level on that one.

    Now I'm hungry.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Seitan

    Quote Dianecrna
    I just noticed that you're from Jersey! Have you been to the Candle 79 restaurant yet?
    I have not been to Candle 79 yet...But now I will give it a try. I frequent this one place in NYC called Red Bamboo (west 4th st & 6th ave ... www.redbamboo-nyc.com) that gives me pretty good meal ideas, so I am always up for a new place to get my creative cooking juices flowing.

    I am also a fairly new vegan. The only 2 things I am really having trouble with are chicken and fish...well, not so much the fish, but chicken is the hardest for me to resist. So, I have become obsessed with making seitan that will calm the cravings ...so far, everytime I get one of those intense cravings I just toss a couple of pieces of seitan in the oven and drown them in spicy BBQ sauce (I can see how this makes you hungry). This tends to work really well.

    What I noticed about the seitan I have been making recently is that if its not drowned in BBQ sauce or a a store-bought quick marinade it tends to taste extremely wheaty--maybe thats just my not-so-good cooking skills. But last night I made a small batch of seitan and in the dry mix I put thyme, sage, lemon pepper, and garlic powder. I simmered it in a vegan "chicken" broth with a minced onion, 3 cloves of garlic, (any my secret ingredient ) a pinch of cinnamon...I wanted to use this batch to make something very spicy and I usually mix cinnamon with hot sauce so I figured I would try flavoring the seitan with the cinnamon instead. I havent tried it yet, but it smells good (or "interesting" depending on who you ask in the house )

  22. #22

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    Default Re: Seitan

    When I get home I will definitely post my recipes for you. I agree about the wheaty taste - it's the reason I never eat store bought seitan. The seitan I make reminds you of those chicken patties served in school cafeterias, just with ALL filler and no meat! And no wheaty taste. The key is simmering in a broth and then either marinating and/or pan-frying it.

    Okay, now I'm hungry again!

    I haven't tried Red Bamboo but did recently eat at Zen Palate in Midtown for lunch. I wasn't overly impressed. Thanks for the link.

  23. #23
    Tanya71
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    Default Seitan

    Is setian a good protein source?

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Seitan

    I remember those patties....thats pretty impressive!!! I would def like to know your seitan recipe.

    After simmering my seitan, I keep it in the broth so it wont dry out...but I dont think that's the type of marinating you are talking about. Do you think it has to remain submerged in the broth or is it possible to season/marinate/etc and freeze without the broth?

  25. #25

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    Default Re: Seitan

    I think it's best to freeze it dry, double wrapped in plastic in "logs" then thaw and marinate or whatever. Here is my recipe:

    CHICKEN-STYLE SEITAN

    3 cups vital gluten flour
    1/2 cup whole wheat flour
    1/2 cup unbleached flour
    3 tablespoons poultry seasoning (equal parts ground sage, ground rosemary and thyme)
    3 tablespoons nutritional yeast
    3 1/3 cups hot water
    1/4 cup shoyu or tamari or soy or Braggs liquid aminos

    Mix dry ingredients thoroughly. Mix water and shoyu together then add to the dry ingredients. Stir quickly and thoroughly, then knead with your hands until liquid is totally incorporated (about 30 seconds). Form these into cylinders or logs. You may also wrap them in cheese cloth to hold the shape and tie with twine (leave some room for expansion). Let rest for 15 to 30 minutes - some liquid may drain out. Meanwhile, prepare broth.

    12 cups water
    3 tablespoons poultry seasoning
    4 tablespoons nutritional yeast
    1/2 cup shoyu or tamari or braggs
    1 large onion, sliced
    3 bay leaves

    Mix all and bring to a boil. Add seitan, bring to a simmer, cover and simmer for 60 to 90 minutes depending on the size of your pieces.

    Alternatively, you can make these into one or two cylinders, then slice into "steaks" before adding to the broth. The yield would be about 18 to 24 steaks.

    This recipe was adapted from veganmania.com

  26. #26

    Wink real seitan recipe

    I have read and tried several seitan recipies that I found online. Most of them include unneeded ingredients such as starch and spices worked into the dough. Seitan is very simple to make and is a very versatile "meat substitute" extremely high in protein and virtually free of fat,so you will want to add some in the form of cooking oil(olive is of course the best) Try making your own seitan and you will be hooked, it just takes some time and patience.

    ingredients:

    6 cups whole wheat flour
    3 cups water
    fresh ginger slices
    tamari or soy sauce (I prefer Kikkoman)
    about 1 gallon water for cooking dough

    1) mix 3 cups water with flower and knead dough ball for 15 mins. adding a little extra flower as needed to prevent sticking.
    2) place dough in a large bowl filled with cold or iced water and let sit for 20-30 mins. This tightens the gluten and makes the kneading process easier.
    3) pour out cold water bath and fill the bowl with luke warm water. This is when you start to work the starch out of the dough. Knead dough under water until water becomes cloudy, dump out the clouded water and fill again. Keep kneading and replacing the water until it does not cloud at all. If the dough feels like it is becoming too loose or starts to fall apart, switch to cold water. This process usually takes me 20-25 mins, use patience and gentle hands.
    (once all of the starch is kneaded out, you should have a tight and flexible, rubbery ball of seitan. The texture changes when you cook it.)
    4) Boil enough water to completely cover seitan and add soy or tamari sauce until the "broth" is salty enough for your taste. Peel fresh ginger, cut into slices 1/2 inch thick and add 3-4 slices to broth and bring to a boil. If you don't have soy/tamari or ginger, you can use sea salt or other spices in their place. Some people also like to add some Kombu (seaweed) to the broth, but I prefer it without.
    5) place whole ball of seitan in boiling broth and cook for 1 hour.

    Seitan should be stored in its broth in the refrigerator, and will last for at least a week. It also freezes well if you make too much and have leftovers.

    Using seitan:
    Seitan is best when combined with a fat such as olive oil. It tastes best cut into cubes or slices and sauteed in oil until it browns well on all sides. You may also want to add a little more soy sauce, salt or spices while sauteeing. Another one of my favorite ways to cook it is to flatten a thick slice by squashing it with my hand and dipping it in a mixture of 1/2 soy sauce, 1/2 water with some garlic and pepper, and then bread it with wheat
    flower and pan fry it with some oil. "chicken fried" seitan I guess. It's unbelievable with some vegan mushroom gravy and steamed vegetables.
    ENJOY- rocknrollseitan

  27. #27

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    Default Re: real seitan recipe

    This is a good recipe if you have patience and don't mind using this much water. There are some other recipes listed that use vital wheat gluten, eliminating the need for so much rinsing. I do agree that you don't need to add some of the herbs and spices listed in other recipes - much like tofu, seitan will pick up whatever you are seasoning it with. The other nice thing about the gluten is that you can change the chewiness by changing the ratio of gluten to other flours.

    Whatever recipe you use, just make it!

  28. #28

    Lightbulb Re: real seitan recipe

    I tried to make this recipe with the flaky version of stone ground wheat flower, and it did not stick together well enough. It turned out more like very loose ground taco filling. I would highly reccomend using Swad Chapatti flower. Its still stone ground and whole, but it stays together very well in the water. Also, to save water, don't dump the water as often while kneading. It doesn't seem to make much difference in the outcome either way. I also suppose that you could save the starch water and make a nice soup stock with it.

  29. #29

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    Default Re: real seitan recipe

    That's a good idea about not rinsing the water as often - I didn't know you could do that. I save the stock that the seitan was simmered in and use it in recipes. I put shoyu, onions and sometimes herbs in mine.

    Thanks for the new ideas!

  30. #30

    Default Re: real seitan recipe

    I just made some and let the water get REALLY opaque with starch before dumping each time, and it came out just as good as usual. I found some rather bizarre use for wheat starch online. It seems that document preservationists use a sterile wheat starch paste to repair old documents. I think that wheat starch was used for old book bindings. I am studying printmaking and papermaking, so I find this interesting, but then again, I'm really kind of a dork. Anyway, check out this site. http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/byorg.../an13-816.html

  31. #31

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    Default Re: real seitan recipe

    Hey, you could make some money off this........

  32. #32

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    Default Re: real seitan recipe

    I have made seitan to last sunday. I had another recipe. I had to but the dough in water for 5 hours. After that the water was turned into white. After that I had to wash it with cold water and then hot water and then cold water etc. until the water was clear. After that it had to cook for an hour also.

    But it was nice. I baked it.

    I am looking now for some recipes with seitan. I like to make a seitan burger or something else. Anyone has some recipes?

  33. #33

    Default Re: real seitan recipe

    Check out Cooking with Gluten and Seitan. That has a great recipe and it only takes 1.5 hours total using vital wheat gluten. Just remember seitan is NOT a complete protein in itself. It's okay once in a while but don't use that as your main protein source. I personally mix in some mashed soy beans or other high protein bean into the mix if I know I'll be using it often throughout the week.

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    Default Re: real seitan recipe

    Two of my favorite ways of eating seitan:

    Marinate in a mix of shoyu, olive oil, garlic and rosemary. Then dip in flour mixed with your favorite ground nuts (walnut, pecan or hazelnut work well). Now, pan fry or sautee.

    Or, dredge unmarinated seitan slices in flour and sautee. Keep seitan warm while you add finely minced shallot or onion to the pan, then white wine and a little stock, reduce. Add a little flour to thicken, capers and lemon juice. Pour over seitan.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Seitan

    thank you for posting the recipe....i cant wait to try it out!

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    Default Re: Seitan

    You are welcome. I just took some out of the freezer last night, dredged it in flour with ground pecans and thyme, then sauteed. Wonderful!

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    Default Re: Seitan

    Shame - noone responded. Yes, seitan is a great source of protein.

  38. #38
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    Default Re: Seitan

    i;m still trying to find the damn stuff!
    i tihnk the chinese call is "glutens" and they sell it in tins with sauce, but i just wanted it on its own, its impossible to find!

  39. #39
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    Default Re: Seitan

    Yeah we call it gluten in Oz also. You can find it easy enough (here anyway) in tins but is is much harder to find fresh. I have seen it and bought it a few times but there is an asian vegan store near me and they have lots of cool stuff, it's called Vegans Choice.

    I was saying in another thread that there is a restraunt in my suburb and you can get stirfried gluten with chilli and ginger, mmmMMMM


    Antony
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  40. #40
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    Default Re: Seitan

    there is a vegan all u can eat in london where they have glutens and they look like and taste like: duck, chicken, beef and prawn. the prawn one was horrid as it was too realistic! its amazing what shape and taste they can make glutens into.

  41. #41
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    Default Re: Seitan

    Quote Skajen
    there is a vegan all u can eat in london where they have glutens and they look like and taste like: duck, chicken, beef and prawn. the prawn one was horrid as it was too realistic! its amazing what shape and taste they can make glutens into.
    Yeah I agree the prawn things are crazy. The tinned gluten is often called MOCK DUCK

    An old girlfriend of mine used to make gluten from flour dough. It took a while but it was great stuff

    Antony

  42. #42
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    Default Re: Seitan

    oh mock duck!! yes i say that in a chinese shop in brighton, was £2.50 a tin tho- tres expensive!

  43. #43

    Default Re: Seitan

    You can also make glutens from "gluten powder", or "vital wheat gluten". Its much easier than making it from scratch with flour, but gluten powder is still quite hard to get hold of in the UK. There are some on-line retailers, e.g. The Flourbin.

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    Cool Re: Seitan

    I'd like to update this thread by saying I've tried some of the recipes posted and my seitan has turned out excellent! I really love seitan but I do find sometimes I end up full of gas. (oops sorry)

    Is this from the seitan? I don't mind personally but it must be offensive to others.
    Carve a pumpkin, Go to prison! :eek:

  45. #45
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    Default Re: Seitan

    Gas from your a$$

    I don't know, I can't recall that I can specifically link it with the passage of wind in my own case, but possible. Mebbe you could chew iyt mor thoroughly. What are you combining it with that could be the issue. Have you heard of food combining

    Antony

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    Default Re: Seitan

    Quote abrennan
    What are you combining it with that could be the issue. Have you heard of food combining
    Can you elaborate on food combining? What foods go good with seitan? I usually fix veggies and a starch (usually pasta or rice) and a sauce.

    Suggestions?
    Carve a pumpkin, Go to prison! :eek:

  47. #47

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    Default Re: Seitan

    If you get gas from seitan then you possibly have a gluten intolerance, or perhaps you just need to take some probiotics for awhile, especially if you are new to veganism or have recently taken antibiotics. I don't know about food combining - I combine seitan happily with anything!
    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein

  48. #48
    antony abrennan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seitan

    Quote PumpkinGuy
    Can you elaborate on food combining? What foods go good with seitan? I usually fix veggies and a starch (usually pasta or rice) and a sauce.

    Suggestions?
    Your stomach digests food using enzymes, commonly called stomach acid. The enzymes are excreted into the stomach at particular times depending on what is in the stomach. Not only do some of the enzymes not work well together but some types of food can reduce the effectiveness of some of the enzymes which results in the food not being digested properly. This can result in a variety of imbalances, both nutritional and physiological.

    Here's a link to a chart that describes what goes with what and what doesn't under the food combining principles. If you search the web you will see that there are varying opinions about the finer points of combining.


    Antony

  49. #49
    told me to Mr Flibble's Avatar
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    Default Re: real seitan recipe

    i've tried making gluten from wholewheat flour before, and gotten ok results, but does it need to be wholewheat? In the UK high gluten white bread flour is quite easy to get hold of, will it make things quicker and easier as there is less starch to wash out? I also find the combination of kneading wholewheat flour and having wet hands for extended periods kinda painful.
    "Mr Flibble - forum corruptor of innocents!!" - Hemlock

  50. #50

    Default Re: real seitan recipe

    High gluten flour works great, but it is not as nutritious, and I have a harder time finding that here. I have yet to find a good sourse of the high gluten stuff, but even with whole wheat, you have to find a brand that works and stick with it (no pun intended). I just moved and still havent found a place to buy Swad Whole Wheat, which works the best.

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