Move to commercialise human milk

[Pob]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4744651.stm

Funny how people will be outraged at the idea of a company getting rich off exploiting women for their milk. Heh, all the arguments against farming women for milk apply equally to cows.

If they start selectively breeding women for extra large breasts....
that would be terrible.

[Skajen]

...or keep women continually pregnant and take all their babies away from them and make them into burgers....

[miss_laura]

*giggles* Well it's about time they started selectively breeding humans for -something-, god knows we could do with some way to get all the crap out of our gene pool now that we seem to have removed ourselved from the process of natural selection! I'm not sure I'd go with larger breasts, though... I mean, they've been toying with sperm donation for years now, and they -still- haven't started breeding men with extra-huge penises!

Anyway, to the point in question, I like the bottom line - "I don't think it would work in the UK as it would prove too expensive for hospitals"...

[NorVegan]

This is actually reality in Norway, and as far as I know, it works fine.

The only problem that I have hard of is that it is sometimes to few woman that knows about this, and is capable of giving milk to other children then their own.

I am surprised that this idea isn’t used in other countries?

Human milk is the best fore human children. This is particularly important for premature kids, where it often is a problem of getting the milk starting in the mother.

[Pob]

The problem is that (IMO) it shouldn't be commercialised.

Once people start making money out of it, women will be exploited, just as cows are now. Maybe not women in the west, but women in poorer countries, for sure.

[NorVegan]

Yes, you are probably right in that if it starts to get imported/exported over the country bounders, it will probably soon get a problem.

And one other thing that isn’t mentioned here (as far as I can see) is the health issue in importing milk from poorer countries. isn’t it something about that HIV and other diseases CAN be transferred trough milk?

But why isn’t it possible to get enough human milk from inside of UK?

The system in Norway is that it is the hospitals that buy an distributes the milk, they also have some control on the woman’s health, so both she and the children’s safety is taken care of. I read to fast, and believed that it was something like this that you where speaking of from the beginning. (I need to learn to read a bit more slow and thorough )

[Pob]

Currently it is run non-profit in both the US and the UK:

But Prolacta is aiming to buy donated breast milk from independent milk banks and hospitals across the US, pasteurise it and sell it back to hospitals to treat low-birth weight babies.

That IMO is the start of a slippery slope.
Eventually I can see them paying the women for the milk.

It's not quite the same as sperm donation (which you get paid for in the UK), as it mostly goes to waste.

If mothers can sell their milk (to buy fags? ), they will maybe do that rather than give it to their own child - which most women already don't do in the UK.

[bittersweet]

One thing that worries me is that they plan to pasteurise it - I have heard (and mind, all the studies were in relation to cows milk and calves) that this can cause failure to thrive, as it destroys nutrients...

[tails4wagging]

Having worked over the years in Special care baby units, its been a long term practice of donating breast milk. Here in the UK its been done for many years. I think they stopped the practice for a while when HIV loomed up.

When a neonate is very fragile, the best thing they can get is Expressed Breast Milk (EBM). Especially the colostrum.

I remember a story some years ago of staff on a scbu put in EBM into a horrid consultants coffee and he didnt realise!!!

What concerns me is that some pharmacutical company is now treating colostrum from a cow to put in skin products.... So the calf is even denied that now....

A couple of days ago a newspaper here had an article saying research has shown that daily consumption of dairy products increase the risk of ovarian cancers..... well surprise, surprise!!!!!

[ConsciousCuisine]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4744651.stm


If they start selectively breeding women for extra large breasts....
that would be terrible.

Breast size has nothing to do with milk production.

[ConsciousCuisine]

One thing that worries me is that they plan to pasteurise it - I have heard (and mind, all the studies were in relation to cows milk and calves) that this can cause failure to thrive, as it destroys nutrients...

Pasteurizing milk renders many of it's unique properties useless, in human milk and other animal milks.

[Pob]

Breast size has nothing to do with milk production.

I know. It also doesn't make a person more or less attractive.

Speaking of which, since I've been vegan, my man-boobs have shrunk, but I've put on a couple of pounds in weight. I've not been drinking as much ale, though, so it could be the hormones from the hops that were responsible.

[twinkle]

If mothers can sell their milk (to buy fags? ), they will maybe do that rather than give it to their own child - which most women already don't do in the UK.

If people have already made the decision to not breastfeed their own child then at least by donating it it will be doing good for a child, even if it's not their own one. By emphasising breast is best potential donors may actually be encouraged to start breastfeeding, as literature promoting donation is bound to stress the benefits of breast milk.

It is also well known that breastfeeding/expressing regularly maintains or increases milk production - that is why the Nestle 'giving free formula to new mums in third world countries' thing is such a crime - because the mums using the formula means their own milk is more likely to dry up.

Personally I don't see the problem with this, and I don't see a problem with women getting paid a moderate amount to recompense them for their time and for the extra food they will be eating while lactating.

[NorVegan]

I guess it is a bit different BF culture in Norway and UK.

In Norway the breastfeeding rate is around 90 % if I don’t remember wrong. (BF until 6 month or older), so the problem of people selling milk for money and not feed it to their own child is close to 0.

But pasteurising it? Why? Is it to kill bacteria’s and so on? I think (but I am not sure) that it is not done in Norway. The milk I frozen (in the mothers home), and as I have understood they freeze it in the hospital and that is all the treatment it gets. The mothers are cheeked fore diseases.

(I am not 100 % sure that I am following this debate correct, so excuse me if I am a bit off topic, or misunderstands something)

[Apple_Blossem]

Human Milk By The Gallon

I read in a health magazine (Whole Foods Health) that researchers found unpasteurized Human Milk healthier and lower in fat than the milk of many animals used in various countries.

Human Milk is closer to our needs than other animal's milk. We would get a exactly what our needs require. Human milk will be on the rise and found in health food stores in the coming future.

Why unpasteurized? Because you'd be getting the whole healthy untouched milk we were originally meant to get.

The positive points:
Women could find a new way to make money and perhaps it could keep some off the streets. It would be a source of employment.
The milk industry would be more regulated: The milk farm would be clean and sterile. Milk will be antibiotic free. Pus-counts done on animal milk could be lowered by a great deal.

I agree with milking humans because at least they can walk out if they are mistreated or dont like the conditions of the milking farm. I also think it sounds healthier and closer to filling our needs.

The article mentions nothing about cheeses, yogurts and butters from human sources.

----------------------------------------------------------

So my question, is it vegan?

I guess this question's answer hinges on whether you believe humans are animals or superior beings? :P

[Tigerlily]

I do not agree with this entirely. Poor women will be selling themselves for their milk. Many women would probably end up being exploited, most likely women in Third World Countries who would rather sell their milk than feed their babies. They will not be able to "walk out" of their milkings if they do not agree with their treatment. Many factory workers, farm laboureres, and sweatshop workers do not walk out of their jobs due to maltreatment. They have bills to pay and children to feed.

PS: Do you have a link to article?

[Apple_Blossem]

No, it was not an internet article.

We should demand human milk from the united states only!

I guess this is a vegan source of milk? :P

[howdawg]

Hey, how about the fact that disease can be transmited much easier human to human... Sounds pretty scary!

[yasha]

I think in theory it sounds like a good idea but I have to agree with what tigerlilly says.

Also, I don't know if I would drink human milk though. It just sounds kinda gross to me to think about drinking some other woman's milk. I guess just because I am a squeamish person. hah

[Tigerlily]

No, it was not an internet article.

We should demand human milk from the united states only!

I guess this is a vegan source of milk? :P

Poor women live in the US too and it wouldn't be much of a difference, I don't think.

I don't know if I would drink another woman's milk. I would drink my own though, I want to make my own Arabic-style cream cheese (lebaneh) from it when I start breastfeeding.

[thecatspajamas1]

HIV can be transmitted through breastmilk. Someone willing enough to sell their breastmilk for money rather than breastfeed their baby is probably living on the streets, ie. high chance they are HIV pos. ?

[Tigerlily]

HIV can be transmitted through breastmilk. Someone willing enough to sell their breastmilk for money rather than breastfeed their baby is probably living on the streets, ie. high chance they are HIV pos. ?

Very good point.

Plus it would be hard to regulate the taste of the breast milk. With cows, they pretty much eat the same thing. Humans eat various foods. Breastmilk from a woman with a McDonald's, coffee, and Oreos diet would taste different than breastmilk from a woman with a raw food vegan diet.

[Seaside]

Its not April yet.

[fiamma]

We should demand human milk from the united states only!

Why?
Plus I can't say I feel the need to drink another woman's milk

[Kiran]

So my question, is it vegan?

Its vegan for a mother to breast feed her child. Its not vegan for grown men and women to drink other women's milk. That would be ridiculous. Its against the laws of nature.

So what next? Commerical human milking farms and Vanilla flavoured breast milk fortified with calcium?

This is too farfetched!!

[aubergine]

Milk is for babies. Human or otherwise.

[Pob]

You can already get human milk from milk banks. This comes from women who have finished breastfeeding their child or who had stillborn babies, etc.

But, if it was commercialised like this, women would have to have babies just to produce milk in the same way that cows do now. What would happen to these babies? Would they be brought up on formula, or just disposed of as an unfortunate byproduct?

Adult humans don't need milk! The older we get, the less able to digest lactose we are, and the more problems it causes us.

[fiamma]

So my question, is it vegan?

I guess this question's answer hinges on whether you believe humans are animals or superior beings? :P

What do you think Apple Blossem? I don't think it's a question of who is superior, although your statement implies that non-human animals are by nature inferior. If we as adults drank human milk we'd effectively be exploiting other human beings who would put themselves at our disposal out of necessity. We have no need to drink animal milk, and it's wrong to exploit other animals, human or otherwise, to do so.

[Kiran]

Milk is for babies. Human or otherwise.

True. This reminds me of....

"Milk is for babies...... real men drink Beer!!" - Arnold Schwarzenegger (in his documentary - Pumping Iron)

[Stu]

So my question, is it vegan?

I guess this question's answer hinges on whether you believe humans are animals or superior beings? :P

I completely disagree. It's a question of consent. If women are choosing to give their milk, then there could be an argument that it is vegan.

However, as other people have pointed out here, it would be pretty unhealthy and unnatural for adults to drink milk. 'Little Britain', anyone?

[sandra]

I think I'm going to be sick after reading this thread!

[Pob]

If women are choosing to give their milk, then there could be an argument that it is vegan.

Depends on what happens to the baby, though, as to whether it is cruelty free, though.

[twinkle]

Its not April yet.

It's always April on the internet

[Tigerlily]

I don't get the April reference?

[RedWellies]

It sounds like an April Fool's joke, Tigerlily.

[Tigerlily]

Ohhh.