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Thread: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Vegans with slips

    Quote Artichoke47
    Exactly what is this "slip" thing? To me, it would be a MOMENT of weakness where one eats an animal product, not that they planned for months or craved for months this item. Also, it could be an unintentional ingestion, either forgetting to check ingredients or being lied to, et cetera.

    But a planned relapse and surrendering of the "vegan" label because you don't want the label anymore? How is that a slip? To me, that's saying, "This isn't about the animals anymore - it's about me and my cravings and my feeling that I don't want to be called a vegan anymore, so I better eat an animal product to convince myself that I'm not one."

    Thoughts, anyone?
    Thanks for your thoughts, Artichoke47. I agree.

  2. #102
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    Default Re: Vegans with slips

    Quote Kumem
    I don't think anyone on here is that malicious. People are just giving their opinions and sometimes they are conflicting....
    Thank you for that thought, Kumem.

  3. #103
    tails4wagging
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    Default Re: Vegans with slips

    We vegans are too sensitive for our own good!!!. Perhaps we should all make an affort to be polite and dont get personal??.

    I have been attacked here, but it wont stop me from contributing. Its water under the bridge and I suppose I will be attacked again sometime. But hey-ho who cares!!!.

    Does it matter how many vegan websites there is, the more the merrier, I say. We vegans need all the support we can get.

    Yes its a shame Banana has left and I guess a few more might leave. They are more important issues we could be tackling here. We have a global forum here that can help the cause.. So stop bickering amongst ourselves and lets push through important issues.

  4. #104
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    Default Re: Vegans with slips

    Exactly what is this "slip" thing? To me, it would be a MOMENT of weakness where one eats an animal product, not that they planned for months or craved for months this item.
    I guess a slip is something that doesn't last long (and therefore, much less of a problem than an ongoing food craving).

    There are two ways to deals with cravings that last long: either give in to them, and drop being a vegan/drop being active here, or not give in to them, and use this forum over this period as a place to find support and suggestions about how to get back to live the way you want. If someone thinks that we should not help/support people who have cravings over long periods of time, where do you suggest that they should look for support? This is currently the most active vegan message board, and we have a number of helpful long-term vegans here who are willing to give advice.


    I definitely think we should offer help to people with both occasional slips and long-lasting cravings (I haven't heard much about them probably because people who possibly experience them just leave and go back to eating cheese, chicken or whatever they crave...).

    RIght now, we have more posts discussing whether we shall discuss cravings or not than posts about cravings. Someone mentioned that posts about cravings may push newcomers away, but maybe a neverending discussion about what we should discuss and not may not be a turn-on to to veganism either.


    But a planned relapse and surrendering of the "vegan" label because you don't want the label anymore? How is that a slip?
    I don't think anyone said that it was a slip.

    To me, that's saying, "This isn't about the animals anymore - it's about me and my cravings and my feeling... [...]
    So far I agree. It is about yourself, and not about animals. I'm afraid I'm going to disappoint someone, because I think we need to address that conflict between being self-centered and focused on not harming others, because it looks to me that this is the MAIN reason most people are not vegans.

    ...that I don't want to be called a vegan anymore, so I better eat an animal product to convince myself that I'm not one.
    It looks like it's the other way round to me. Some people feel that they are not strong/motived enough to avoid animal products as often as they feel they should, so they choose not to call themselves vegan. First comes the (craving for) eating of animal foods, then the labeling.

    People who have non-vegan food cravings over long periods of time, and give in to them, are not vegans. This is a site for vegans. Therefore people who register here don't expect to find a lot of stuff about giving in to non-vegan food cravings here. Just like some ex-smokers are much more sensitive to smoke then people who ie. never smoked, I understand that there have been and will be negative reactions on over-focusing on (giving in to) cravings for animal foods in here (I don't know if this has happened or not in here). The best solution I can see is to try to keep such posts a place where people who are provoked by seeing them can avoid them, if they need to.

    One more thing about about not being judgemental re. cravings and slips:

    People are addicted to all kinds of stuff - including, money, gaming, sex, getting positive feedback from others, fame, internet, cheating...

    Let's imagine for a moment that this is a discussion about how to be able to live the way you want, and get rid of your hang-ups in general, and not about food/veganism (IMO, this what this thread really is about) Transfer the pro/con comments to ie. being unfaithful. Let's say you are someone who can't resist cheating on your boyfriend/girlfriend whenever you have a chance and come across a temptation. Then you stumble upon a forum for faithful people. You share your trouble with being faithful, people try to help you, but you tell the users once a week or month that you have 'slipped'. This will provoke people, and it will hurt your partner, and people will identify with your partner and speak up for him/her, just like people in here speak up for the animals that are hurt if you have a food craving that includes killing or harming animals.

    Here comes the tricky part. If people want to fool themselves, they will fool themselves. This means that some people who have addictions, may it be food, women, money or whatever, will use support from others as an excuse to continue fooling themselves. To me it looks like a lot of non-vegans, for example lacto-vegetarians are continuously*fooling themselves, because they never argue pro eating milk or eggs, they just haven't managed to drop these things yet: they don't want to do it... they just do it. Studies show that a lot of meat eaters rather would like to eat vegetarian etc.

    Back to support/allow both discussions about occasional slips and long time food cravings in here: This support is of course not meant to be used as an excuse for people to continue to do something they don't want to do. Ihere is a lot of support to be found from users of this forum, and if people get support , and still continue to 'cheat', me feeling is that they simply want to cheat. They are not interested in eat vegan food only, but they wish they would be interested in eating vegan food only, because it makes so much sense.

    Let's support people who really want to go vegan as much as we can, and if it looks to us like people don't really want to go vegan, it's fair to ask them after a while if they are sure they really want to. If I had a really good friend that was unfaithful to his partner a lot, and claimed that he didn't want to continue, but still did, I think the best think I could do for him is to tell him that it looked like he was fooling himself.

    Having said that, I think we have a great bunch of people in here that do their best not to fool themselves!

    Do you read this thread and are provoked by reading about people who give in to food cravings or even want to discuss them, or to read anything at all written by non-vegans. semi-vegans, ex-vegans or vegan-wannabes? Well, then you shouldn't be reading this thread at all - remember it is in the Not A Vegan Yet-section!
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  5. #105
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    Default Re: Vegans with slips

    Tails4 said (post #106) that there are more important issues we could be tackling here. We have a global forum here that can help the cause. So stop bickering amongst ourselves and lets push through important issues.

    I couldn't agree more - it seems to me that there's far too much space and words on issues that couldn't be described as important. For example, with Banana, so many have had their say, and the upshot is that we support those who really try their best to follow a vegan lifestyle as far as they can. What further discussion is really needed, when there are issues needing discussion as regards the environment, the treatment of nonhuman animals, GMOs, health, vitamins etc, current affairs as pertaining to vegans in the world, and many more subjects. Trouble is, these are not the sort of posts that arouse many responses. Oh well!
    Eve

  6. #106

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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    I am sorry that Banana has left the forum as a new member and almost vegan i enjoyed reading her frequent postings.
    I became vegetarian ten years ago it wasn't an overnight decision but one made after a lot of time eating less and less meat till I decided to take the step. I actually found that quite easy. despite living with meat eaters. Probably partly because I never really liked meat, and because i have a compassion for my fellow beings, human and non human and the environment as a whole. i don't preach but i do try to get my opinions accross when asked stupid questions about why i chose to stop eating meat and what I eat, and the even more bizarre questions i am asked as i continue to try to stick to a vegan diet. I have found the forum very supportive as i don't know any vegans any more!

  7. #107
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    Default Re: Vegans with slips

    Quote Cal
    Thanks for your thoughts, Artichoke47. I agree.
    Thank you for that thought, Kumem.
    Thank you for your thoughtful and meaningful posts Cal.

    Originally Posted by Artichoke
    Well, I agree that some of the posts towards Banana were intolerant and judgemental, but if Banana were more tolerant of others' viewpoints, she would have stayed, instead of leaving because people disagreed with her and/or suggested things to correct her "slip" or behavior towards bugs.
    Banana was quite patient and tollerant with the "witch hunt". In her own words, the whole thing "exhausted" her and that is why she left. There is so much more to work towards, without having to worry about pleasing people who will never be pleased with anything other than perfection.

  8. #108
    Ratbag Cal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegans with slips

    Quote Roxy
    Thank you for your thoughtful and meaningful posts Cal.

  9. #109
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    Default Re: Vegans with slips

    Quote tails4wagging
    We vegans are too sensitive for our own good!!!. Perhaps we should all make an affort to be polite and dont get personal??.

    I have been attacked here, but it wont stop me from contributing. Its water under the bridge and I suppose I will be attacked again sometime. But hey-ho who cares!!!.
    This is my attitude too. I've been attacked on other forums many times, but I stayed because I liked the forum and the other people there. In my opinion, to strongly disagree is not the same as an attack. I've experienced both, and in order to enjoy any forum I have to know the difference.
    "Animals are my friends... and I don't eat my friends". ~ George Bernhard Shaw.

  10. #110
    yogini
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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    theres a company here that makes rice snack..called 'snack a jacks' some are caramel flavoured. i looked at the pack and they contain milk so i wont touch them. nevertheless they do beckon to me every time i see them in the shop.

    does anyone know of a vegan alternative so satifsy my craving?

  11. #111
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    Default Rice snacks

    There are some Japanese rice cakes made by Clearspring that are rather moreish and apparently vegan:

    http://www.goodnessdirect.co.uk/cgi-...il/403424.html

    There are other flavours as well, although they are (I think) all savoury so I don't know if they will satisfy your urge for a caramel-flavour one! You can get them in healthfood shops (which will have other rice cracker type things, not all vegan) and also in the "free from" (allergy) sections of some supermarkets.

  12. #112
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    Default Re: Rice snacks

    Quote harpy
    There are some Japanese rice cakes made by Clearspring that are rather moreish and apparently vegan:

    http://www.goodnessdirect.co.uk/cgi-...il/403424.html

    There are other flavours as well, although they are (I think) all savoury so I don't know if they will satisfy your urge for a caramel-flavour one! You can get them in healthfood shops (which will have other rice cracker type things, not all vegan) and also in the "free from" (allergy) sections of some supermarkets.
    thanks! will give them a go.

  13. #113

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    Question Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    I have a question about honey...I tend to not eat it becuase I consider it an animal product but a raw vegan cookbook I have sometimes calls for honey or maple syrup in the recipes. I always use the syrup but was wondering, is honey vegan, or is it more something that is a choice for vegans to eat or not eat? Sorry about my ignorance, but I'm trying to learn, thanx!

  14. #114
    FR
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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    Honey is not vegan, no matter how humane the bees are treated. Honey is an animal product, and a disgusting one at that being that it is bee vomit. I've always looked at it like this, I would not eat a dog's vomit, or any other animal's vomit; why in the world would I consume bee vomit?

    There are raw foodists who are not vegan and consume raw animals and raw animal secretions/vomit.

  15. #115

    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    Use agave nectar instead of the honey.
    utopiankitchen.wordpress.com

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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    FR, thanx for telling me how honey's made, now I'm gald that I no longer eat it, I always considered it an animal product in the first place. The weird thing is, this chef IS a raw vegan, not just raw, but maybe he doesn't eat honey himself, that's probably the answer to that. And thank you so much Artichoke for the alternative to honey, I've been using brown rice syrup made by a vegan company that kind of replicates the taste and texture but agave nectar sounds great! I'll have to try it!

  17. #117

    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    Actually, a compelling reason to not eat honey is a stance against animal cruelty and killing. Collection of honey kills bees. It's also exploitation.

    The grossness factor fails in comparison to the suffering.
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  18. #118
    FR
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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    Quote Artichoke47
    Actually, a compelling reason to not eat honey is a stance against animal cruelty and killing. Collection of honey kills bees. It's also exploitation.

    The grossness factor fails in comparison to the suffering.
    It is not that I do not agree, but some bees are raised in a humane manner. So, the grossness factor is always something to consider when the bees are in fact raised and handled in a humane manor by very small, local operations. Aside from financial exploitation, what other argument could one have besides the fact that honey is actually vomit even when it is obtained in a cruelty free way?


  19. #119

    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    Quote FR
    Aside from financial exploitation, what other argument could one have besides the fact that honey vomit when it is obtained in a cruelty free way?

    Can you rephrase so I can understand your question, please? Thanks.
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  20. #120
    FR
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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    When honey is obtained in a cruelty free manner, aside from financial exploitation, what better argument could one have besides the fact that honey is actually vomit?

    I agree cruelty issues supercede all other issues surrounding honey as most honey is obtained in that way.

    /sorry for sounding incoherent.

  21. #121

    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    Quote FR
    When honey is obtained in a cruelty free manner, aside from financial exploitation, what better argument could one have besides the fact that honey is actually vomit?
    Argument for not eating it?

    Do you want me to respond or just leave it at the "bee vomit" comment?

    If you want a response, here goes:
    a. Bees produce honey for a reason. They use this honey for their own purposes. Humans have no right to steal it from them, the same as we have no right to take cow milk from a mother cow's calf.
    b. Agave nectar is widely available and is animal-product-free.
    c. Plant-based diets are most natural and least destructive.
    d. When one commits to a plant-based diet, it shouldn't be based on certain restrictions and limitations, such as "Oh, this honey is okay because my friend obtained it himself." You either abstain from it completely or not. Why all of the sudden eat something that isn't necessary for survival?
    utopiankitchen.wordpress.com

  22. #122
    FR
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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    Quote Artichoke47
    Argument for not eating it?

    Do you want me to respond or just leave it at the "bee vomit" comment?

    If you want a response, here goes:
    a. Bees produce honey for a reason. They use this honey for their own purposes. Humans have no right to steal it from them, the same as we have no right to take cow milk from a mother cow's calf.
    b. Agave nectar is widely available and is animal-product-free.
    c. Plant-based diets are most natural and least destructive.
    d. When one commits to a plant-based diet, it shouldn't be based on certain restrictions and limitations, such as "Oh, this honey is okay because my friend obtained it himself." You either abstain from it completely or not. Why all of the sudden eat something that isn't necessary for survival?
    Thanks. I agree with all of those points, Mrs. Chaos.

  23. #123
    Cakeaholic rainbow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    Also, bees make honey to consume as a winter food. If humans take the honey, then either the bees die, or they have to be given a substitute food such as a sugar solution. Giving their whole lives to make a perfect product only to have it nicked and replaced by something inferior seems like a raw deal to me. I'd rather be the one eating the substitute food.
    Speaking of which, golden syrup sometimes does the trick.
    Ten years ago, whilst staying with a French family in Nice for a fortnight, they bought me a jar of maple syrup that wasn't runny (like every other maple syrup I've ever seen) but thick and spreadable, like thick honey. It was delicious spread on bread as a tartine. I have never found it again in France or the UK even though I have looked long and hard. Anyone know what I'm talking about and where I could get it from?
    Live and let live

  24. #124

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    Thumbs up Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    I don't think I've ever seen that syrup, but I'm now gonna for sure keep my out for it. It sounds REALLY good, and like a perfect substitute! Thanx for the great idea!

  25. #125
    AR Activist Roxy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    If you like a sweet spread for your bread, you might like to try chestnut spread. It comes from France, and I'm sure it must be available in the UK and USA. We get it here in Canada. It's about $5 for a small tin, but it is very sweet.

  26. #126
    cross barer
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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    Quote moochbabe
    I don't think I've ever seen that syrup, but I'm now gonna for sure keep my out for it. It sounds REALLY good, and like a perfect substitute! Thanx for the great idea!
    Also rice syrup... closest thing I've ever found to honey. It has the same consistency but is not as sweet. I love maple syrup but it's too thin, and treacle etc are too rich. Rice syrup rocks mate. It's even cheaper than honey.

  27. #127
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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    I'll have to try that too. Can you put it on toast or is best to use just in cooking?

  28. #128
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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    Yeah it's great on toast yummm

  29. #129
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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    Ok - thanks I'm going to try it. I've seen it in the grocery store.

  30. #130
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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    Quote moochbabe
    I have a question about honey...I tend to not eat it becuase I consider it an animal product but a raw vegan cookbook I have sometimes calls for honey or maple syrup in the recipes. I always use the syrup but was wondering, is honey vegan, or is it more something that is a choice for vegans to eat or not eat? Sorry about my ignorance, but I'm trying to learn, thanx!

    Well, if the cook book is telling you to use maple syrup and honey, it is neither raw nor vegan!

    Another vote here for raw agave nectar. It is soooooo goooooooood!

  31. #131
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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    Quote ConsciousCuisine
    Well, if the cook book is telling you to use maple syrup and honey, it is neither raw nor vegan!

    Another vote here for raw agave nectar. It is soooooo goooooooood!
    CC is right about the maple syrup and honey.

    How do you eat agave nectar? Can you eat it on toast or is it mainly for use in cooking?

  32. #132
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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    I didn't realise maple syrup wasn't vegan, but as I only use Agave I suppose I have never bothered checking

  33. #133
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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    Quote Aurora
    I didn't realise maple syrup wasn't vegan, but as I only use Agave I suppose I have never bothered checking

    Maple syrup is dreamy and vegan but it is not "raw". So, the cookbook isn't 100% vegan because it has honey and isn't 100% raw because it has maple syrup

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    Question Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    I think it is possible to sometimes get raw maple syrup, it's just really difficult I think. But thank u for that little tid bit of information as well. And thank u too adam antichrist, I really like rice syrup, it's a great sweetener for things!

  35. #135
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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    Quote moochbabe
    I think it is possible to sometimes get raw maple syrup, it's just really difficult I think.

    That would be maple sap. VERY different from maple syrup (see the really cool link below) http://www.tricountyi.net/~riverside/making.html

  36. #136

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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    Oh, thank u so much, that's really cool to learn. I'll remember that the next time that I make a raw meal (which isn't TOO often). Thank u again! And btw, that site was very informative, thanx for that too, lol.
    Last edited by moochbabe; Aug 15th, 2005 at 08:20 PM. Reason: I forgot to mention how cool the website was

  37. #137
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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    You're welcome! I LOVE that site! It's astounding that it can take 55 gallons of tree sap to make a gallon of maple syrup! So, basically a whole gallon of sap to make a SERVING of maple syrup for a person (with a serving being 1/55 of a gallon of maple syrup )

  38. #138
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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    Cool site CC.

  39. #139

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    Talking Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    It almost seems a little excessive just for maple syrup, no wonder it's so sweet and yummy though!

  40. #140
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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    I love maple syrup! Especially on vegan waffles

  41. #141
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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    For some reason I started thinking about hollandaise sauce today. If I ate some I doubt I could keep it down these days but I used to really enjoy making it. Doing the breakfast shift in cafes, it was alwys the first thing to make so often the second thing I'd do was eat some with toast

    I wouldn't call it a craving, it was a lust but not intense enough to be a craving. Anyway I'm going to stop thinking about it now before it becaomes a full blown craving.

    Oh yeah the thing that I was thinking was the only ingrediant in my house these days is white vinegar... no eggs, butter or white wine

  42. #142
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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    You could always have white wine vinegar on tofu, instead of hollandaise on eggs
    Mmm sounds yummy

  43. #143

    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    I have a recipe for hollandaise sauce. I will try to find it later...

    http://www.veganforum.com/forums/sho...2776#post72776
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  44. #144

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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    I used to really like hollondaise sauce! But it was always a little too rich for me though!

  45. #145
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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    I never ate it, so I guess I don't know what I'm missing

  46. #146
    yogini
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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    i never ate it either. even before i was vegan the smell and look of it made me feel sick..!

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    Talking Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    Ya, i often had the same impression of it, yet when it was served to me i tried it, and if only using a little bit, i liked it on asparagus. Now it just makes me sad that I smothered something so yummy in something so icky and unhealthy! lol, live and learn!

  48. #148
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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    i crave pastries/donuts/baked goods but i'm never really tempted to just eat one... just doesnt seem worth it to me after all i feel so strongly about my way of life.

  49. #149
    yogini
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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    have you tried any vegan pastries/pies yet?
    in the uk theres a company called jordan valley wholefoods who make amazing spinnach and lentil rolls, Sausage rolls (soya), nutty rice potato top pies etc..they are divine..my omni BF loves them too!
    maybe they have something similar where you are to help curb the cravings?
    alot of the pastrys (to use for cooking) in the supermarket are vegan but they have hydrogenated oils..

  50. #150
    AR Activist Roxy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    I have found some vegan apple and cherry strudels at my local bakery. I went through the ingredients with the owner. Their pies (except for the pumpkin pie) are vegan as well.

    I know also that down in Australia, Banana has discovered some vegan savoury pies and rolls.

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