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Thread: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

  1. #151

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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    Mmmmmm pie

  2. #152
    ♥♥♥ Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Default Re: Occasional slips and ongoing food cravings

    For a while, I kind of felt like some extra old cheddar cheese. It was like...a semi-craving. But then I had to slice some up at work for a customer, and OMG. THE STENCH! I don't want it anymore. Thank goodness!

  3. #153
    Yogini
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    Default vegan for moral reasons only?

    First let me say that as a vegan, I'm in obviously in agreement with the rest of you that consuming animal products is morally wrong. But am I the only one that is vegan solely for that reason and would probably eat meat if it wasn't dead? Now I can do without hamburgers, but if they made a vegan crab with drawn butter or a nice vegan brie, I'd eat those suckers in a second! People ask me if I miss meat at all and I honestly have to say that I do love seafood, especially shellfish (isn't it bizarre that the animals I most miss eating are probably the ones that die the worst death?)

    Sorry if I'm grossing anyone out. I know it's not good to dwell on how good eating, say, salmon is when I'm never going to eat it again. But I was just wondering if I'm the only person who thinks these thoughts.

    P.S. I'm having a really hard time coming up with an adequate title for this thread.

  4. #154
    antony abrennan's Avatar
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    10 years of studying human nutrition in the longest and most detailed study ever undertaked shows that eating animal protein, including sea beings is injurious to human health on a large scale. Half of all americans alive today will die from heart disease and related diseases primarliy from consuming the flesh of dead creatures.

    To continue to consume them is bizzare. To desire to eat flesh shows the depths of the addiction and the strengh of ingrained habit. To consume flesh is tantamount to slowly poisoning oneself, but even worse it is poisoning the planet. It also degrades our mindset, if we are willing to corral and kill other creatures we are capable of any injustice.

    I agree with the philosopher Peter Singer who says that in the future our ancestors will be horrified by the treatment and use of animals in our age.

    In South East Asia there is a saying:

    "When the Godess of Compassion (Quan Yin) was asked "Why is there so much suffering in the world" she replied "Go and look in the slaughter house and you will see why"

    Antony

  5. #155
    Yogini
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    You don't have to convince me that consuming flesh is wrong, both from a moral standpoint and from a health standpoint. And I admit that craving shellfish is a symptom of addiction. That doesn't change that I do crave seafood, whether I want to or not. Believe me, I would change that if I could. I was just curious to see if anyone else around here suffers the same cravings I do.

    Incidentally, I grew up on the coast of northern California, and it's pretty normal to crave the "comfort" foods from your childhood. That doesn't mean eating them is a good idea.

    Love,
    Anna

  6. #156

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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    You remind me of my partner. He's been lacto-ovo for roughly 10 years now. Last christmas my brothers asked him that if it were possible to grow a nice piece of meat in a test tube without killing any living creature, would he eat it? He almost started drooling. I'm the one who's more into health reasons and moving us toward vegan but he has shown remarkable discipline even though he freely admits he loves meat. It's all about the ethics to him.

  7. #157
    antony abrennan's Avatar
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    I was reading something interesting the other day, it is that humans do not possess the testebuds that would allow us to taste animal protein. Cats do and other carnivorous creatures do but we do not. So there are two things left that is the texture of flesh and the taste of the condiments and flavours that people add, oh I guess the third thing is the mindstuff that goes with it.

    That's interesting isn't it, no tastebuds to taste the flesh of other beings.

    I don't have cravings, I guess that could be difficult.

  8. #158
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    I don't have cravings, but freely admit that I loved the taste of flesh and am vegan purely for moral reasons.

  9. #159
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    Quote abrennan
    I was reading something interesting the other day, it is that humans do not possess the testebuds that would allow us to taste animal protein. Cats do and other carnivorous creatures do but we do not. So there are two things left that is the texture of flesh and the taste of the condiments and flavours that people add, oh I guess the third thing is the mindstuff that goes with it.

    That's interesting isn't it, no tastebuds to taste the flesh of other beings.

    I don't have cravings, I guess that could be difficult.
    Can you remember where you read that?

    That's really interesting...
    "It is just like man's vanity and impertinence to call an animal dumb because it is dumb to his dull perceptions" - Mark Twain

  10. #160
    FR
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    Quote abrennan
    10 years of studying human nutrition in the longest and most detailed study ever undertaked shoes that eating animal protein, including sea beings is injurious to human health on a large scale. Half of all americans alive today will die from heart disease and related diseases primarliy from consuming the flesh of dead creatures.

    To continue to consume them is bizzare. To desire to eat flesh shows the depths of the addiction and the strengh of ingrained habit. Tp consume flesh is tantamount to slowly poisoning oneself, but even worse it is poisoning the planet. It also degrades our mindset, if we are willing to corral and kill other creatures we are capable of any injustice.

    i agree with the philosopher Peter Singer who says that in the future our ancestors will be horrified by the treatment and use of animals in our age.

    In South East Asia there is a saying:

    "When the Godess of Compassion (Quan Yin) was asked "Why is there so much suffering in the world" she replied "Go and look in the slaughter house and you will see why"

    Antony

    Well said.

  11. #161
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    Quote abrennan
    I was reading something interesting the other day, it is that humans do not possess the testebuds that would allow us to taste animal protein. Cats do and other carnivorous creatures do but we do not. So there are two things left that is the texture of flesh and the taste of the condiments and flavours that people add, oh I guess the third thing is the mindstuff that goes with it.

    That's interesting isn't it, no tastebuds to taste the flesh of other beings.

    I don't have cravings, I guess that could be difficult.
    I was thinking aliong the same lines as this just yesterday. I hated steaks and roasts, and all sorts of ocean creatures, but what I liked was the taste of the fat. Its fat that carries the bulk of any food flavor, not the actual flesh or protein content. I hated eating bacon, but I liked my eggs cooked in the bacon grease. I hated eating fried chicken body parts, but I liked the taste of chicken stock in soup. I did like things like salami and pepperoni, mostly anything that didn't look like the flesh or body parts of an animal. But I was very young when I quit eating them, and don't really remember having severe cravings. My trouble was feeling left out at mealtimes, mostly, though my parents never gave me a hard time about it.

    However, still to this day I can be struck for a desire for Kraft Macaroni and Cheese if I am driving through certain parts of San Francisco when its really foggy. This was my favorite food as a little girl, and my gramma, who lived in SF, always made it for me when I came to stay, which was a lot! But that's more emotional than physical, because I really miss my gramma.

    I wouldn't bother feeling bad about cravings, Yogini. You are making the right decision not to eat animal products, so if you still have cravings for them, it can hardly be helped. It isn't a moral weakness to like the taste of sea creatures. I just hope that your cravings will diminsh with time.

  12. #162
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    I guess i am lucky because i never liked meat. It didnt matter how much i told my mum that it made me feel sick she still made me eat it. How long have you been vegan for Yogini? If you are a new vegan it is understandable that you still crave things you ate not to long ago.

  13. #163

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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    Quote abrennan
    I was reading something interesting the other day, it is that humans do not possess the testebuds that would allow us to taste animal protein. Cats do and other carnivorous creatures do but we do not. So there are two things left that is the texture of flesh and the taste of the condiments and flavours that people add, oh I guess the third thing is the mindstuff that goes with it.

    That's interesting isn't it, no tastebuds to taste the flesh of other beings.
    Actually, there's a lot more to flesh than just protein. So we do taste it. I know people say a lot that it's just the seasonings, but I think many of you have been vegan or vegetarian so long that you forgot what it really tastes like (take it as a compliment). There's major differences between species and different body parts, or organs. I'll leave it at that before grossing you all out any more.

  14. #164
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    I have been vegan for a long time - my decision to be vegan has only moral/ethics as its base, then after a while I was quite glad for my health too.... I have NO desire or cravings whatsoever to eat dead things - I don't think I ever did actually. If my GP said to me you will die in 'x' amount of time if you don't eat dead things then I would have to die. To consume the flesh and other products of our fellow creatures, so unwillingly and painfully given is so wrong I could never go back.

  15. #165
    Yogini
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    Quote puffin
    How long have you been vegan for Yogini? If you are a new vegan it is understandable that you still crave things you ate not to long ago.
    I've been "saying" I was vegetarian for about 9 years, but truth is I occasionally ate seafood, so technically I was pescatarian. I was vegan from 97-98 during which I never ate carcass, then vegetarian from 98 to early 2005. I was very sick during that time and not paying attention to nutrition or anything like that. I became vegan again last January which has greatly improved my physical and mental health. During this time I've lapsed once, and again with seafood. It seems to be my Achille's heel. I know, I know, BAD BAD BAD. Will never happen again!

    Love,
    Anna

  16. #166
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    Quote Yogini
    I've been "saying" I was vegetarian for about 9 years, but truth is I occasionally ate seafood, so technically I was pescatarian. I was vegan from 97-98 during which I never ate carcass, then vegetarian from 98 to early 2005. I was very sick during that time and not paying attention to nutrition or anything like that. I became vegan again last January which has greatly improved my physical and mental health. During this time I've lapsed once, and again with seafood. It seems to be my Achille's heel. I know, I know, BAD BAD BAD. Will never happen again!

    Love,
    Anna
    Sounds like your doing a great job

  17. #167

    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    I initally stopped eating baby animals i.e. lamb... then next came eating only free range/organic meat... then after seeing a cow by accident on tv being shot in the head, I decided only to eat chicken and turkey and tinned tuna - not long after I decided that it was chicken and turkey only, I was flicking channels on tv and saw all these chickens hanging by their feet from this great big machine kind of conveyer belt - their heads where disapearing, these birds where still a live - I was so shocked, naive maybe, but so very shocked and I could not get the image out of my head for ages. I wasn't eating meat anymore basically, although I did eat tinned tuna once every blue moon, not sure why.

    I give up meat because I don't want to eat animals, I didn't give up eating meat because I didn't like the taste or the smell of it cooking... I've never liked looking at or touching raw meat.

    The more I've learnt about how animals suffer, the more I do not want to eat, wear or sit on, etc. anything animal related.... I only wished I had become a Vegan years ago.

  18. #168
    antony abrennan's Avatar
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    Quote GloomCookie
    Can you remember where you read that?

    That's really interesting...
    I'm trying to remember. The thrust of the research into tastebuds was that humans DON'T taste flesh, no matter what they think. We do, however have the tastebuds to detect plant based tastes.

    The mass consumption of flesh is primarily the result an incredibly succesful marketing gimmick.

    Antony

  19. #169
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    I am vegan for the animals more than anything the health side of it is just a benefit I suppose. I couldn't eat animal flesh now or anything animal really. I always thought eating anything that was from an animal was wrong long before I saw the videos on PETA etc. If it wasn't for my mum I'd have been vegan long ago. Oh well.
    "It's not that people suddenly start breeding like rabbits; it's just that people stopped dropping like flies" - population explosion

  20. #170

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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    First, I would like to thank everyone for giving Anna honest and non-judgemental answers. When I read the first post here, I thought "Here we go!" But she asks a question that many vegans may feel but never ask for fear of being judged.

    Second, I was a "gourmet" cook (and married to a professional chef) for years before becoming vegan. I knew how to cook anything and would eat anything (out of pride, ego, you name it). I could "appreciate" the flavor of anything. I took pride in this and so did all of my foodie friends.

    So what happened when I became vegan? I told myself that if I could appreciate the most intimate parts of an animal's body then I could appreciate the cleanest, most delicate taste known to mankind - vegetation. I retrained my mind to accept that only the most gourmet chef could appreciate the subleties of vegan cooking. And I am correct. In time, you will appreciate this as well. Your taste buds have been so overwhelmed by animal products that you will need some time to condition them. When you do, the taste or smell of animal foods with become over-stated (unless, of course, the emotional pull overcomes all rational thought).

    Don't give up. So many emotions and memories are tied into food, it's amazing any of us were able to give up breast milk. BUT WE DID !!!
    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein

  21. #171
    antony abrennan's Avatar
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    Yeah good thread Anna

    I agree with Dianna, the emotions that surround food are very strong and the related conditioning is extremely powerful.

    I am sure there are many vegans who experience cravings. I think that cheese was the hardest thing for me to let go of, I recall missing it a little but not enough to call it craving.

    Antony cheeseless

  22. #172

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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    Puleeeease, Antony! Don't ever think you are not "cheesy." (A little U.S. humor for you)
    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein

  23. #173
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    vegan cheese please

  24. #174
    Seaside
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    Quote abrennan
    vegan cheese please
    I like to call that "fauxmage".


    (Fromage is French for cheese, in case someone doesn't know what I'm talking about.)

  25. #175
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    Look out we risk a thread split here into a new....

    ....oops it nearly happened there

    it's like humpty dumpty in alice in wonderland who said that his words meant precisely what he meant them to mean and even after he had spoken them he could decide that they would mean something

    so we could be discussing the fauxmage end of the ethics of flesh gobbling and all of a sudden we're somewhere else seemingly talking about...............

    .................. a man with a hat, ooops I mean the intricasies of american fauxmage slang, see it nearly happened againalready.


    look out

  26. #176
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    I can't remember the taste of meat. I used to spit it out as a baby and when I was 3 my Dad brought home rabbits he had shot and I was devastated for days thinking that my Dad could do such a thing . I guess I'm lucky not to crave it. I do admit I used to love strawberry malted milk shakes. Now I have fruit smoothies but every now and then I remember the taste . I think if we use a bit of aversion therapy on ourselves and think of the horrible stuff - blood, mucus, animal fat that we would be ingesting, the craving will go

  27. #177
    sugarmouse
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    i cant remember the taste of meat, i am vegan for mostly animal centered reasons the health as witchy said is a large bonus.
    i do eat fake meats sometimes as they tend to have nutrients in no other part of my diet provides..but i can do without them..food is food lol if i coudol survive without eating i would be happy!

  28. #178
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    Sorry if intruding, but are you paying attention to your Omegas?? I craved fish until I started taking them. That's a well known sign that a vegan would be low- craving fish.

    Cheese was hard for me. Oh LAWD was it hard!!

  29. #179
    Yogini
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    I take one to two tablespoons of flaxseed oil per day, so I doubt that's it. I've heard that hempseed oil is more like fish oil, but I haven't been able to find any.

    Love,
    Anna

  30. #180
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    Ok, I was pretty sure that you knew about that already, but you're a fellow vegan & I wish good health for you so I thought I might throw that out there.

  31. #181

    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    two tablespoons of flaxseed oil
    Does flaxseed oil come in capsule/tablet form?

  32. #182
    Yogini
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    I have yet to see it in gelcaps that aren't gelatin based, but that doesn't mean they aren't out there. We're also discussing flax oil here:

    OK, I can't post the link. But it's under Health, and it's called Do You Take Flax Oil Everyday?

    Love,
    Anna

  33. #183
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    When I first turned vegetarian, I missed the taste a lot, but now it doesn't seem like food, but I think it's solely cos my taste has changed (I'd like to say developed )

    I think food is a highly cultural thing - a 'norm' diet ie. western omni has developed where most of us live, and it includes meat for most. Simply, this means that often people learn to like certain food. I find this very much with tea too, I mean what the hell would make us drink someting so nothingy, but its sooo popular (I drink it too now). I can't find the words to make this make sense to whats in my head... sometimes just cant write...
    My point in sum, is that meat taste is cultural (sadly), and so it seems taste is so included in the adjustment to not eating meat.
    I wish I had hated the taste of meat, but I didn't at all, its purely moral.
    Sorry Eve, but I find this place the only place I can talk about stuff like this, which I have often thought too, but not had guts to start a thread.
    Hopefully Yogini your tastes will develop too sometime. I suggest eating copious amounts of lentils
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  34. #184
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    No cravings for flesh here. But then, I was never a glutton until I went vegan. However, the fake seafood is most often what I'll get at a vegetarian restaurant if I get fake meat. When I was a child (when I still ate meat), lobster was the only meat that I actually got excited about eating. Probably because it was a special treat for me sometimes, when we visited my grandparents on Long Island.

  35. #185
    Yogini
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    Quote John
    the fake seafood is most often what I'll get at a vegetarian restaurant if I get fake meat.
    I tried a vegan salmon filet by Veat a few weeks ago. Blech!!!

    Love,
    Anna

  36. #186
    ConsciousCuisine
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    ^^Veat makes this vegan

    Last time I checked, it had whey in it

  37. #187
    Yogini
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    I'm not familiar with all their products (and don't plan to be), but the "salmon" was vegan.

    Love,
    Anna

  38. #188
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    Quote Seaside

    But CC is right, Puffin. No one is mad at Yogini.
    Excellent, i didnt say people were mad, just a little upset but i am all for it being moved so everyone is happy
    I have never eaten fish subsitutes. I bought some redwoods Tai things not to long ago and didnt realize they were fishy. I wont be able to eat them, cant say why but the though just makes me feel a little yuk.

  39. #189
    ConsciousCuisine
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    Quote Yogini
    I'm not familiar with all their products (and don't plan to be), but the "salmon" was vegan.

    Love,
    Anna
    Well, that certainly is news to me, as all thier products in this part of the USA have whey in them. I wish they were vegan here because my daughter loved them, especially the "fillet" and "breast".

  40. #190

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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    I'm sorry if my post was a bit too graphic for some people. I actually think it's great if someone has been vegan long enough that they reach a point where even reading about eating animals is so disugsting to them. Seriously.

    But when I was an omni, one reason that I didn't take some vegans seriously is that they kept claiming that meat doesn't have it's own taste, that it's all the marinades and seasonings. I found this unrealistic and it made the vegans who made these claims look like they were kind of out of touch. I couldn't really take them seriously anymore although the rest of what they had to say would surely have been worth listening too. I'm not going to go into why because I don't want to gross anybody else out. But please believe me, this line leaves you open to ridicule and will get in the way of communicating with omnis about veganism. You'd be sabotaging your own arguments by making claims like that to omnis who know how to cook. And that would be a shame.

  41. #191
    sugarmouse
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    meat is just not food to me..lol about as edible as me picking my keyboard up now and eating it..i wouldt care if it tasted like carrots.

  42. #192
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    I've never seen anything by Veat that is vegan.

  43. #193
    Stu
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    Yogini, I was always a vegan primarily for moral reasons.

    But when my dad died in January - out of the blue, from a heart attack - it got me more interested in the health side. My dad was a meat-eater (he loved his fry-ups), and I'm convinced that he would have still been here today if he didn't have all that cholestorol in his system.

    The way I see it, veganism makes sense on every level. In the argument of omnivorism versus veganism, the latter seems to win on every point, as far as I can tell.

  44. #194
    Yogini
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    I was buying groceries today and checked the label on the Veat "salmon." You guys were right - it does have whey in it. Somehow I missed that when I bought it. Maybe that's why it tasted so gross!

    Love,
    Anna

  45. #195
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    I understand this forum has many places to click, different categories & such, (it's one of my fav reasons for being here) but why cant we just be there for someone?

    I doubt the poster meant to do harm? Esp if they were a newbie. I dont want to close myself off from anyone. Why burn a bridge for no reason?

    If ppl feel this belongs at a different part of the forum, then Korn can just fix it. *shrugs*

    We dont have to get all mad & bent out of shape. There's some pretty bad things happening around us daily. I would rather offer support to a misguided post than deal with a grumpy local meat eater anyday.

  46. #196
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    Seriously, does talk of things like crab and butter not bother you?

    For every one vegan who has cravings still there is one, like myself, who finds it extremely difficult to cope with the sight, smell and thought of "food" like that.
    It's not because I want to be difficult, it would be much easier if I could watch someone eat crab without flinching or hear/see words like brie and butter without it turning my stomach but I can't.

    I am a vegan because I am aware of what these things are and what they represent, and I can't switch that awareness off. If I could, I'd probably be an omni.

    I don't go to restaurants/butchers etc because they bother me but I if I did I wouldn't attack people for their choices, it'd be nice if you could show a vegan only group the same respect.
    "It is just like man's vanity and impertinence to call an animal dumb because it is dumb to his dull perceptions" - Mark Twain

  47. #197
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    Quote ConsciousCuisine

    Gloomcookie, I agree with your sentiments. If I wasn't bothered, I'd be an animal eater!!!
    It's a learning curve, I guess. I was veggie for years and found meat totally revolting whilst throwing dairy products down like there was no tomorrow. Now the things I used to scoff make me sad, nauseous and regretful.

    For GOD'S sake no one tell me anything bad about olives and mushrooms
    "It is just like man's vanity and impertinence to call an animal dumb because it is dumb to his dull perceptions" - Mark Twain

  48. #198
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    but isnt it everywhere ANYWAYS? As if we live in a bubble? No way.


    But this category is here for a reason so that's why I understand when ppl want this thing moved.

    I just wouldnt anyone to ever think they cant count on me for support. I'm not going to pull someone literally in a back room to discuss being vegan. I will talk to them right where they are standing.

    And being a vegan, I kinda feel it's my duty to be there for others. Why go out of my way to hinder someone trying to change? The kinds of things being said could make someone not want to post at all or leave the forum altogether.

  49. #199
    Sprout cafejane's Avatar
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    well if someone asks an innocent question & then gets told off, it can burn a bridge. This person could be areally nice friend & completely mean well.


    That's all I'm sayin'

  50. #200
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: vegan for moral reasons only?

    Hi,

    later today or tomorrow I'll merge the is thread with an existing thread about food cravings in the 'New Vegan'-area. Until then, it is closed. Please continue the topic in that other thread, and... please don't forget that we have some board guide lines about focusing on opinions, and not people, and about treating even the people you disagree with with respect...

    Our guide lines...


    Take it easy,
    Korn
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

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