Six Vegetarian Problem Scenarios - Anybody read this?

[Tom]

Anybody seen this one........

http://www.beyondveg.com/nicholson-w...b-scen1a.shtml

[veganblue]

Anybody seen this one........

http://www.beyondveg.com/nicholson-w...b-scen1a.shtml

Interesting, but hardly convincing. I worry when a site like that says such things as anecdotal evidence should be counted because there is not enough scientific research being done. Somehow I suspect that they haven't looked very hard and even I have looked at research that negates the message they are trying to present behind a mask of concern and reason. Unfortunately the reason doesn't hold much water - especially when they start talking about the paleolithic diet...sheesh!

Ask - who are these people? what research are they quoting? what is their message and what benefit is there to them for giving it?

For vegans, the benefit to us of spreading the vegan message is to assist the animals as well as the humans and the planet as a whole.

Who benefits from promoting a return to the consumption of meat and dairy?...

[Tom]

Yeah, i thought there were elements within the article that were interesting. They mention at one point that Dr M. Klaper is also conducting his own studies into FTT (Failure To Thrive) syndrome. I would be interested to read that (more detail here: http://www.vegsource.com/klaper/study.htm ). Like you say, the ethical side of veganism doesn't feature in the article at all.

[terrace max]

Aren't most of the symptoms of 'Failure to Thrive' given as:

Lassitude or "being hungry all day" and "not feeling satisfied,"

Poor sex drive or poor-quality sleep;

Behavioral effects such as not being able to get one's mind off food (not uncommon if one is not feeling physically satiated or otherwise satisfied on the diet), or

The yo-yo syndrome of not being able to stay on the diet consistently due to cravings; to

Emotional effects such as a vague, nonspecific loss of zest for life (which is usually more apparent to other people than to the person themselves);

...more symptomatic of mild depression, which could have a wide number of causes, including reading twaddle on the Beyond Veg site.

[DianeVegan]

This sounds like a site by someone who was not able to eat a balanced vegan diet and therefore decided to attack the movement in order to quell feelings of inadequacy. I certainly hope that returning to a carnivorous diet helped this person (although I sincerely doubt that).

Instead of beyondveg.com they should have called the site notveg.com

[Gliondrach]

It would be pointless replying to these lies because our e-mails would never be printed on the site. The person or people behind this site must have their own agenda. As Veganblue asks: 'Who benefits from promoting a return to the consumption of meat and dairy?'

[ChocolatBlanc]

That site makes it sound like vegetarian=naive follower of some random fad. They make it sound like ethics do not count for much, and that there are-- ohmy!-- six dreadful things that could happen to you if you stop eating Bessie. When it really seems like they're just saying you may be ill-- blame it on vegetarianism! I think reading that "twaddle" gave me FTT syndrome, Failure to Tolerate their nonsense. Usually I don't get so mad, but I really abhor that specific site. It makes me feel like the little red angry frowny-face.

[adam antichrist]

I don't know anyone who fits those descriptions.

[Peas'nHominy]

This sounds like a site by someone who was not able to eat a balanced vegan diet and therefore decided to attack the movement in order to quell feelings of inadequacy.

I agree! The "wilted lettuce" points obviously to that, too, imo. Ridiculous. I do not know other vegans, but I'm not anything close to that description.

And the nonsense about the health problems going away but then getting worse to the other extreme is a pathetic lie. It's about balanced nutrition, not about consuming animals and animal products -- freak'n morons.

*Thank you for letting me vent here. I know they're not reading this, but I have to deal with this kinda of annoyance (to put it nicely) and I wanted to purge for a moment! I feel better now.

[Zanahorias!]

The problem that I have with sites such as these is that they attempt to make it appear that all the "positive press" surrounding plant based diets comes from strictly vegetarian sources. This simply is not the case, as even the ADA, who have beef lobbiests among, claims that the properly planned vegan diet can support a person though all life stages.
Perhaps the author should have examined that not everyone thrives on the same plant based diet, rather than stating that it simply doesn't work. For example; some people need to eat more legumes, or grains, or whatever, than others do in order to thrive.
If you have the will, there is a quite healthy way that one can thrive on a mindful vvegan diet.

[veganblue]

I have a friend that is no longer vegan and he would see this site as a justification for him returning to eating meat. I still can't reconcile it in my head. We both went vegan at the same time and seven+ years later I am fit and healthy still... Since he returned to meat he has given up smoking, reduced some of his drinking and caffeine, done bursts of exercise, and taking loads of herbal supplements.

I wonder if that may have anything to do with it...?

Failure to thrive or failure to self-diagnose the real root of the problem?

[abrennan]

It's interesting isn't it

the adddicted will use anything to justify their addiction

I'm wilted because I'm a Vegan, not I'm wilted because I'm a Wally who doesn't eat well enough.

Don't be drawn, the truth is already out there. What does beyond vegetarian mean anyway?

Antony
wilt free

[Wildflower]

I read that many years ago. Kinda pathetic really. I just ignored it.

Simillar to a certain "Dr" whose entire website revolves around the selling of his book and how soy is killing us.

[Artichoke47]

Failure to tolerate their nonsense. I love it!

[Peas'nHominy]

Simillar to a certain "Dr" whose entire website revolves around the selling of his book and how soy is killing us.

I haven't heard about that one yet.

[mophoto]

Simillar to a certain "Dr" whose entire website revolves around the selling of his book and how soy is killing us.

i was at a weight watchers meeting a few years ago and the leader had a whole meeting about how healthy legumes are, until i brought up soy and vegetarianism. she told us that too much soy can cause breast cancer. i was floored. what about all of the hormones you are eating in meat and dairy???? now that will give you breast cancer.


i had never seen that site until now and it cracked me up. i feel so good (and guilt free) since going vegan. it took about a month for me to feel right. i have no cravings and i can't for see myself ever going back to dairy and eggs again. i just love the excuses that people have for going back to a meat based diet.

[Atticus]

The one thing that caught my eye in the article that i agree with is that there is no "one" or "ideal" diet for EVERYONE. Everyone is different and should be able to what whatever diet they feel fits for their lives.

[eve]

Provided their diets do not include animal body parts, animal products, dairy, eggs, honey, etc.

[Michael Benis]

The articles on the site are very glib, don't distinguish between different types of "veggie" diets or what individuals are eating, what supplements they are taking etc.

Curiously, it alleges peer pressure preventing ex-veggies from "speaking out" but doesn't acknowledge the corrosive effects of omivore peer pressure on veggies or attacks on their "dietary confidence" from people such as the author.

Equally, it doesn't take into account the effects on well-being of stress etc. in a generally imbalanced society.

Lastly, as others have mentioned, the various anecdotal evidence they come out with does not seem to mirror the experience of anyone on this board, nor is it supported by any studies etc.

The one thing I can say with certainty about my own periods of so-called FTT is that I simply ought above all to have been worrying less. I can't help being reminded about the old nonsense about "inferior vegetable proteins" and how it was thought essential to have to eat grains and pulses together at every meal - something we have now discovered quite simpy isn't true. Yet, boy did we worry about it!

A good regular supplement containing B12, D and iodine (as now being sold by the Vegan Society- http://www.vegansociety.com/catalog/...roducts_id=239) is a good insurance policy, but that's it.

Cheers

Mike

[PumpkinGuy]

"Later you dust your magic carpet off and rededicate yourself, only to yo-yo again when those tempting foods you used to eat in the past beckon: breads, pasta, baked potatoes;" - copied from the article

I eat these things quite often. Last time I checked they are all plant-based foods. This guy isn't eating that dreaded beef bread (is that what they call beefcake??)

My brother is battling the bulge on the atkin's diet and he thinks I'm so unhealthy, while I'm happily running 10K's and training for my first half marathon, as a vegan. I hope I don't fall on my ass like a piece of wilted lettuce.