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Thread: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

  1. #51
    mangababe rianaelf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    yeah, certainly from the animals point of view it is a good thing, at least they are saving lives even if they dont realise it, and that's all that realy matters

  2. #52
    AR Activist Roxy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Quote rianaelf View Post
    LOVE ofcourse
    people who do it just for health suck, sorry, but it has to be said. These people only love thems elves
    Why do they suck? They're obviously still doing a good thing for the animals and the environment, even if it is inadvertently.

    Would you honestly say "you suck" to someone who said they were vegan simply for health reasons? I'd hate to hear what you would say to a meat-eater then

  3. #53
    mangababe rianaelf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    er oops i wish i hadnt said anythink now sorry folks guess i must have got a bit carried away maybe i should join one of these animal aid activist groups or somethink, perhaps i should put my energy in that dierction and try to do somethink positive about it

  4. #54
    mangababe rianaelf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Quote Korn View Post
    Some people come to the conclusion that they respect an animals right to live, other don't, but many vegans - including many of our members - come to that conclusion after they have stopped eating animal products for health reasons. There are many reasons people don't see animals the way vegans do, but please don't use our bandwidth to attack other members - who may have become interested in going vegan for health reasons, and are in the middle of a process where they understand that humans have no right to harm or kill animals for what may appear as own personal benefits.
    OMG i really am in trouble now
    i guesss i was being a bit ott but i did apologise in my last post.
    i just watched 'You are What You Eat' Gillian McKeith <or however u spell it> and she totally changed this family who ate nothink but cakes into one who were more or less vegan without them knowing it and i realise that i may, indeed, have been a little harsh cos this family was so cute, even wen they were fat!!
    but nevertheless i cant let mys elf come out as a total white feather on here cos somepeople dont eat meat cos they think its 'dirty' or has got BSE in it or somethink and its more a revulsion of the animal than anythink else but i honestly dont think for a moment that anyone on this forum is like that

  5. #55
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Hi, I removed that post of mine, because I wrote it before you apologized.... Thanks for making a lot more sense than you IMO did in that other post.

  6. #56
    GoatBoy
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    environment ethics health

    because really thats in order of size of how many people it effects. environment effects everybody on this planet. ethics is about the animals in production and health is only about me and those who are close to me.

    religion is also off the scale because i can't really say that i have one. I don't have religious beliefs, just beliefs about religion.

  7. #57
    mangababe rianaelf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    im glad u accept my apology cos ur pm left me shaking at the knees, lol

  8. #58
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    ...Hi rianaelf,
    I think I know where you're coming from....I've run into a few people
    [very few] who seem to go out of their way to make sure everybody understands they are NOT concerned with animals in any way......and I can't help it......they piss me off too.....but again, they are a very tiny minority.

  9. #59
    Kenetic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Just to point out to those who don't know me ,I care but my health came 1st as i was to young to know (older now and care about it all) enough said

  10. #60
    IndigoSea
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Quote rianaelf View Post
    LOVE ofcourse
    people who do it just for health suck, sorry, but it has to be said. These people only love thems elves
    Let's look at it logically- vegans don't eat animal products but they also don't wear animal products or use cosmetics with animal products. Therfore someone doing it JUST for health alone wouldn't have a problem with wearing wool or silk, and would happily rouge their lips with fish semen. So they wouldn't be vegan, would they?

    As a result, it's impossible to get a vegan who is in it 100% for their health. So moot point really.

  11. #61
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Quote rianaelf View Post
    im glad u accept my apology cos ur pm left me shaking at the knees, lol
    So the four words 'please avoid insulting others' is all it takes to get your knees moving? Well, I hope you and your knees are better now .

  12. #62
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    As a result, it's impossible to get a vegan who is in it 100% for their health.
    Exactly!

  13. #63

    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    So... what would someone who eats a plant-based diet but doesn't subscribe to animal welfare ethics (and doesn't mind wearing say wollen clothes), be more accurately described as a "strict-vegetarian" then?


    Owen

  14. #64
    AR Activist Roxy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Yes Owen, I would agree with that. I would call them a vegetarian or strict-vegetarian.

  15. #65
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    So... what would someone who eats a plant-based diet but doesn't subscribe to animal welfare ethics (and doesn't mind wearing say wollen clothes), be more accurately described as a "strict-vegetarian" then?
    Or just 'vegetarian', as opposed to lacto- or lacto-ovo vegetarian. Some people use the term 'vegitan' too.

  16. #66

    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Thanks. Well, I guess that's me then.

    I suppose I should sling me hook now because I don't subscribe to vegan philosophy in its entireity. Mind you, since finding this site (on a chance google) I've read quite few of the theads and it's got me thinking and the last bit of dairy has gone from my diet since coming here and I'm happy about that. I've also got two nice cook books as a direct result of recommendation found on here. And I've found it a good source of information on things like diet.

    Owen

  17. #67
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Hi again,
    I don't see a problem with having members here on a vegan diet only, as long as they accept that if they start posting messages questioning vegan viewpoints, they actually should be in the Not A Vegan-section...

  18. #68
    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Hi Indigosea, I don't know if you were referring to my post or not [forgive me if you weren't] when you said that 'Humans will never change with THAT attitude!' You seem to concentrate more on ecological matters, yes, we have progressed slightly in that area but animal consumption has increased through the years not decreased!
    I don't understand your point about meat consumption being 'halfway ethical', to me meat consumption is NOT ETHICAL full stop.
    My views on this earth and human nature seem to annoy some people, I am not trying to do this, it is just my opinion and feelings on life here. I do not dislike humans [I'm one myself, believe it or not] I just despair of them.

  19. #69

    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Quote IndigoSea View Post
    As a result, it's impossible to get a vegan who is in it 100% for their health. So moot point really.
    Not least because honey has no health issues attached really. All "health vegans" could have honey and perhaps organic skimmed milk and fish flesh sourced from clean waters also.

    "Dietary vegan" is ridiculous because veganism was created as an animal ethics stand pure and simple.

  20. #70
    snaffler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Animals
    Then I learned about health plus sides etc after so I guess that was next.
    Go confidently in the direction of your dreams

  21. #71
    frugivorous aubergine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    As a result, it's impossible to get a vegan who is in it 100% for their health.
    My primary reason for going Vegan was my health. I thought it was hypocritical to use other animal products, but it wasn't because I had any awareness of animal rights. That came later.

    So there you go. I went Vegan. Totally Vegan because of my health.

    There is a bigger debate about this that I could get into, but maybe this isn't the place. I'll just get flamed.

  22. #72
    mangababe rianaelf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    ah kool, i think i needed to hear that

  23. #73
    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Hi IndigoSea, why did you delete your post replying to my post?
    I've just found out why your post wasn't there. I just wanted to say that I strongly disagree with what you said, animals should not be seen as 'gifts'.They belong to themselves!

  24. #74
    forthebirds
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Quote sandra View Post
    Yes, I know the environment is important but I have no faith in human beings and sometimes think the sooner this world is non existent, the better, for us and the animals.
    If there were no more animals, there would be no more sufferring, the same goes for us. I am not saying this out of a dislike of people or to try and be controversial, I just feel that humans will never change.
    If I thought the earth of the future would be one where every living thing was respected and everyone did what was best for all life and the environment I would be very happy. Sadly, I don't think that sort of earth will ever exist.


    I agree with your sentiments Sandra. Since it seems our destruction of the Earth and it's ability to support life is inevitable, it might as well happen now and relieve all the suffering. Now where is that asteroid they keep promising?

  25. #75
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    For me, going vegan was primarily an ethical and religious decision. Not that I subscribe to a religion which advocates veganism (are there any?) - I donít attend any religious meetings, and I would describe my religion, or spiritual beliefs, as a sort of mixture of Christian and Buddhist elements. I know that Christianity doesnít have a particularly impressive track record on respect for animals, and it doesnít seem to want to do much to address this at present, which is a shame to say the least. Hence my interest in Buddhism, which has far more to say. Both religions would advocate living your life according to ethical principles, but I believe this is something which you work out for yourself, not according to rules laid down by someone else, which is why I donít subscribe fully to any one religion, but would describe myself as a religious person, if that doesnít sound too pompous.

  26. #76
    focus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    ethical concern for animals
    health
    environment
    The love for all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man.

  27. #77

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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Ethics
    Enviroment
    Health

    and I am an athiest so religion does really enter the equation. Not that I have anything agaisnt religions

  28. #78

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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Ethical
    Enviromental
    Health

  29. #79
    mango
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    At first it was animal-related ethics. Then I found out about the environmental issues. Now it is also a spiritual thing. But I wouldn't say any one is more important than the other - they're all different. Veganism is part of a fundamental ethic that doesn't seem to have a name but includes all of my relationships, close or distant, with other beings, with truth, and with beauty.

    Capitalist society is definitely finished. Most people are already barely conscious. Whether humans will survive the next 50-100 years I don't know. I don't expect to survive the collapse of industrial society because it will be very violent. Maybe some kind of life on this planet will survive. Or maybe the time of life in the universe is finished. Maybe the whole universe is a living system. Maybe time is relative to consciousness. Who knows?

    I don't think 'things will change' in the sense of society getting better. I just want to do as little harm as possible while I'm around.

  30. #80

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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Ethics.

    I first started to read up on the cruelty in animal slaughterhouses and dairy farms, which made me decide to go vegan. I kept reading into the environment and health benefits before I went completely vegan, but I had already made up my mind to do so.

  31. #81

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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Ethics
    Environment
    Health

    Religion, as in organised religion, doesn't come into the picture, but spirituality does. And I think each of these is intertwined - if you have spirituality, you have ethical reasoning. If you have ethical reasoning, you must have environmental awareness. And part of environmental awareness is health, on all levels - of the earth, of your locality, of YOU.... and we're back at spirituality.
    You say animal rights extremist like it's a bad thing.

  32. #82
    Rock on. :D ~Lenore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    #1: Common sense.

    Really,

    #1: Ethics
    #2: Health
    #3: Enviroment
    #4: Religion

    I was going to put religion higher up, but I'm going to assume that you meant as for a requirement in practicing an organized faith, and that is not my case. I walk my own unique spiritual path and follow my heart, and I have always known that eating animals is absolutely wrong, at least for myself in this lifetime. So you can call that ethics OR spirituality/religion, I suppose.

  33. #83
    Haniska's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Environment
    Ethics
    Health
    Religion

    Ethics
    Religion
    Enviroment=Health
    it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble

  34. #84
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    I became vegan for animal welfare reasons but the benefits to the environment of the vegan diet became apparent soon after. I think that growing food for farm animals to eat when people are starving in developing countries is very wrong and that's a consideration too. Positive health benefits are a bonus and I'm not religious.

  35. #85
    vegan pizza! thecatspajamas1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    went vegan 100&#37; for the animals.
    Environmentalism and healthnutism followed, but still vegan for animal purposes!

    If veganism was unhealthy, I would still be doing it.
    I eat nutritional yeast by the spoonful.

  36. #86
    BlackCats
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    When I read up finally what exactly being vegan was and why people do it. My order of reasoning was:

    1. Ethics
    2. Spirituality (I believe that if humans have a soul then so do animals)
    3. Environment (I had no idea of environmental impact of meat-eating before. I was so woefully misinformed )

    4. Health (this is not most important to me at all - but then saying that, I feel much better now anyway.)

    For some reason I had thought being lacto-vegetarian was healthy. I thought vegans were just people who were extreme health fanatics and it was something I could never aspire to.

    I suppose I had only ever met dietary vegans who were doing it for their own health or religious reasons (or one girl who said she was vegan had an eating disorder.)
    So I never met someone that could be a 'rolemodel' or explain why they chose veganism in a positive way.

  37. #87
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    ethics
    ethics
    ethics

  38. #88
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Ethics
    Environment
    Health
    Religion

  39. #89
    Mahk
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    I agree with thecatspajamas1 above. I don't want to kill, harm, or manipulate any animals (to the best of my ability). Everything else is just a fringe benefit and I too would still be vegan even if I thought it was un-healthy and that I'd shorten my lifespan by avoiding meat. Lucky for me I don't think that's true.

    I can think of three other odd-ball reasons, besides these 4, that we occasionally see in the forum now and again:

    -I'm a slave to my partner/doctor/parents and they force me to.
    -I hate animals and will have nothing to do with them.
    -I'm allergic or don't like the taste of all things animal related.

    Hey, don't shoot the messenger, I have no connection with any of these, I'm just saying they exist.

  40. #90
    whalespace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Spiritual and therefore personal consequence [which would fit some causes of religion]....ethics being tightly bound in here as a product of the logic derived from [collective]self interest.
    Health.
    Environment.
    Problematic is waking someone whom pretends to sleep.

  41. #91
    xaaronx
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Quote thecatspajamas1 View Post
    went vegan 100% for the animals.
    Environmentalism and healthnutism followed, but still vegan for animal purposes!

    If veganism was unhealthy, I would still be doing it.
    Exactly the same for me!

  42. #92
    steven1222
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    4. Health
    3. Environment
    2. Ethics
    1. Knowing that something contains or may contain animal products makes it too disgusting.

    Religion was not part of my reasoning.

  43. #93
    Haniska's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    I'm totally with steven there; and I think a lot of other people are too.
    it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble

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