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Thread: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

  1. #1

    Default Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Environment
    Ethics
    Health
    Religion

    Put them in the order of your own reasons.

    Mine:

    Ethics
    Environment
    Health


    Off the scale non-issue: Religion

  2. #2
    LittleNellColumbia
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Ethics

    Health

    Environment (the second two are pretty much equal)

    Religion is also off the scale of issues for me

  3. #3
    peasant terrace max's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    I believe it's helpful to see our actions holistically, rather than in arbitrary compartments.

    Aren't ethics, health and the environment essentially the same thing?

    By this I mean you can't be healthy in a dodgy environment. You can't do something good which is also bad for the environemt. You can't be healthy long term if you're doing something wrong etc. etc. This is supported by scientific enquiry: for example, try dividing a human being from the environment at a biological, let alone molecular, level...

    For these reasons it's no coincidence that veganism is healthy, ethical and good for the environment!
    We are saved in the end by the things that ignore us. Andrew Harvey

  4. #4
    LittleNellColumbia
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    I agree very muchly, but i couldnt be bothered thinkinking about writing it coz im tired but well said

  5. #5

    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Quote terrace max
    I believe it's helpful to see our actions holistically, rather than in arbitrary compartments.

    Aren't ethics, health and the environment essentially the same thing?

    By this I mean you can't be healthy in a dodgy environment. You can't do something good which is also bad for the environemt. You can't be healthy long term if you're doing something wrong etc. etc. This is supported, rather than contradicted by scientific enquiry: for example, try dividing a human being from the environment at a biological, let alone molecular, level...

    For these reasons it's no coincidence that veganism is healthy, ethical and good for the environment!
    True, over time all reasons become one but during that initial moment of breakthrough I think most of us will have tended to have specific reasoning. Ethics clearly refers to animal concern which was the sole reason for me personally. Been reading a few vegan books recently and they always group the reasoning by the above four so just chose to play this thread poll across such linear logic.

  6. #6
    peasant terrace max's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Quote The_Lincoln_Imp
    True, over time all reasons become one but during that initial moment of breakthrough I think most of us will have tended to have specific reasoning
    I'm sure that's right. I think my initiation was largely environmental (or maybe ecopsychological!).
    We are saved in the end by the things that ignore us. Andrew Harvey

  7. #7
    Seaside
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Reverence for life. If everyone shared reverence for life, ethics, health, religion, environment, etc. would all take care of themselves.

  8. #8
    Barley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Ethics
    Health
    Environment

    Religion is a non-issue for me too. I do take environmental considerations quite seriously but, and call me a fatalist if you like, the world is so f***ed up now, I wonder why I do - anyone else feel helpless like that? My greenness versus the US of A - some competition.....
    Last edited by Barley; Sep 10th, 2005 at 10:50 AM. Reason: typo

  9. #9
    Gliondrach
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    I'm a vegan because I am a thoroughly nice chap,

  10. #10
    I eve's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Like seaside, for me it's reverence for life.
    Eve

  11. #11
    told me to Mr Flibble's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    ethics

    environment (surely this is ethics?!)

    health (a bonus, not my motivation)

    religion (my religion I chose partly because it encourages veganism, i didn't become vegan because of the religion)
    "Mr Flibble - forum corruptor of innocents!!" - Hemlock

  12. #12
    ConsciousCuisine
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Quote Mr Flibble
    religion (my religion I chose partly because it encourages veganism, i didn't become vegan because of the religion)


    Do tell, which religion that encourages veganism do you subscribe to?

  13. #13
    AR Activist Roxy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Is it Buddhism?

  14. #14
    Goddess foxytina_69's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    animals.
    "you dont have to be tall to see the moon" - african proverb

  15. #15
    RubyDuby
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    theres a religion called animals? I need to research that one!
    Each snowflake in an avalanche pleads not guilty.

  16. #16
    Jacqui's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    I was under the impression that Buddhists could eat meat as long as they didn't order the killing, and I thought they were okay with dairy as well.

  17. #17
    told me to Mr Flibble's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Buddhism yes, although buddhism is a collective name for a lot of religions that share similarities and beleifs. Most Buddhists in the world, like christians are born into the religion and hence are cultural followers. Cultural followers inevitably end up worshipping myths that have existed in the countries before hand, as opposed to the original teachings of a religion. A lot of things attributed to Buddhists arn't Buddhist at all, as a result of thousands of years of corruption and kings/warlords twisting things for their gain (sound familiar to any of Henry 8ths cult followers (aka church of england)? ). Most non bigot christians will agree that christmas was a rebranding exercise on the winter solstice, as it was easier to convert pagans (most of whom were cultural pagans) if you still let them keep their holidays. In Buddhism, as opposed to commandments (thou shalt not etc etc because i'm god and i say so) there's precepts, and most Buddhist orders subscribe to at least the core 5, the first of which is about not killing. How can eating meat be described as not killing? How can keeping a cow pregnant all it's life, killing its offspring so it can be milked and then killing it when it's milk production falls be counted as not killing? Unless you are are a monk/nun the precepts are generally reguarded by cultural followers to be things that you should follow, but you don't have to. Many followers have religious days, where they don't eat meat, don't drink etc, then the rest of the time do as they like.

    I was personally well under way formulating my own theories, phylosophies and ethics on the world before finding buddhism, and I wouldn't really say I've changed my life in any way for Buddhism. It just fits in with my way of things the best. I think that mindfulness is highly important for a happy life, and to acknowledge that the present moment is all that exists. I agree that meditation can be helpful in helping us with these things, and I'm a big fan of WBO's meditation technique (Mindfulness of Breathing and Metta Bhavana (Development of Lovingkindness)), so I've been attending their centres on and off for the past 5 years. I'm not ordained, and I'm not sure I ever want to be. God wise though, I'm still agnostic, and I don't think any human can ever say for sure what god is the real god. I don't know how I got here, what I am, whether I'm the centre of the universe/god and you lot are my imagination or not, but I must have come into existance somehow, and it just doesn't make sense. So as far as the god part goes, I'm pretty sure it's just something that's currently beyond human comprehension, much like rocket science is beyond the comprehension of a hamster. For some reason humans seem to require religion as a way of answering questions for them that they either don't want to think about or can't answer, but I'm very much a scientist, and whilst I'd love to follow god based religions like paganism, there's just too much to buy into that can't be sanely argued.
    "Mr Flibble - forum corruptor of innocents!!" - Hemlock

  18. #18
    antony abrennan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Quote Jacqui
    I was under the impression that Buddhists could eat meat as long as they didn't order the killing, and I thought they were okay with dairy as well.
    As Mr Flibble says there are many groups under the buddhist umbrella and a lot of cultural baggage in many of them.

    When Siddartha Gotama took students they were a group homeless people who were dependent on the community for their food. He called the Bhikku's which looslet translates as beggars. They were beggars. They were not allowed to own anything beyoung their robes and bowl and water filters so they could collect water without insects getting into it and being eaten.

    Anyway they would only eat once a day. Any of the food they got had to be begged for. They would go from house to house with a bowl and the householders would come out give then some of the food they had organised for their own families. Remember that most of the community were subsistence farmers. They had very little for themselves and not much more. If they had eaten meat, which was not a daily occasion for them, then that would be all they had to offer. So according to the rules the monks and nuns were not to refuse this because the householder couldn't whip up a special dish just for the bhikkkus and bhikkunis.

    BUT if the monks and nuns knew that the animal had been killed in order to offer some of it to them they were to refuse it. The large part of the beggars diet was vegetarian but there was a small amount of meat because this formed part of the diet of the people supplying the food.

    If you look at the teachings of the Buddha you are not only not to kill but you are to remove violence and anger and exploitation from your way of thinking, acting and living. this means to be vegan in my viewpoint. But also buddhism is not a "Thou shalt" philosophy. It is a method of investigating your life and deciding for yourself. Be a lamp unto yourself is a famous quote from the last few words that the Buddha spoke before he died.

    I eventually became vegan out of compassion and reverence for life due to looking deeply into myself and my life and the lives of other beings.


    see ya

    antony

    In most regions today there is no real need for monks and nuns to consume meat. But do to cultural and personal reasons many do.

    My Teacher is Thich Nhat Hanh. He encourages his students to be vegetarian at least and he requires hid monks and nuns to be vegetarian, There are vegans amongst them.

    So there you go.

  19. #19
    told me to Mr Flibble's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    This discussion should perhaps follow on in a new thread, but whilst I'm here, I agree that Thich Nhat Hanh is a great teacher (I've several of his books, at least one of is in my top 10) and very inspirational person. However, the main thing stopping me from visiting his retreat/meditation centre in France is that they can't cater for vegans!

    I emailed them a while back and from their website:

    "The food is vegetarian. Unfortunately, we are limited in our capacity to accommodate people who have special dietary or medical needs. "

    http://www.plumvillage.org/retreats/...etreatInfo.htm
    "Mr Flibble - forum corruptor of innocents!!" - Hemlock

  20. #20
    antony abrennan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    That is no good at all

  21. #21

    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Health

    Environment

    Ethics

    It's LIKE a religion to me!

    I think you could add more reasons, like LOVE! I know someone who went vegan primarily because he loved a vegan girl and wanted to be with her and thought it would help win her over. He is now vegan for all the reasons above, not just for love, but it's what got him in the first place. And they are still together.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    I agree with some others that my main reason for being a vegan is a reverence for life and not being able to stand the thought of causing any more suffering than is necessary. I too think that this combines all the "reasons." I have recently read a few books that point out how most religions encouraged vegetarianism to some degree. I consider myself a Christian/Buddhist/Taoist, because these three "religions" all seem to speak to me. (I think ALL religions have some of the "truth," but these three speak most strongly to my heart.) It surprises people that Judaism and christianity have actually been viewed as vegetarian/vegan by some theologians. Some even point to the fact that before the flood, God had only made mention of non-animal sources of food. They further point out that God made certain pronouncements (i.e., drain all the blood from the animal) not because He wanted us to eat meat, but because people were already doing it and He at least wanted us to not cause any more suffering than necessary. As far as blood sacrifice in the two religions, these theologians further point out that some prophets cried out against animal sacrifice (saying that God does not want your burnt offerings, etc) and that such sacrifice was actually kept from older local religions. Of course, Buddhism more strongly asserts the importance of not causing suffering--including allowing others to cause suffering--in what most consider "lower" creatures. I too agree with others that milk and eggs (at least here in the US) cause suffering by how the animals are treated and what happens to the baby animals in each industry.

  23. #23
    frugivorous aubergine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Primarily health - I was very, very ill and as it cleared up as I sorted out my diet, it led me to Veganism.

    Next would be Animal Welfare. What I have learned in the last year has served to cement my decision.

    To a lesser extent would be the environment.

    Last of all rould be Religion. Although it plays no real part in my life now, I was raised in a fairly modern Christian envronment where we were taught about compassion. *If* Jesus ever did exist, I cannot believe he would sanction what goes in the Livestock industry, and how it pollutes this earth. In the Bible it says we are stewards for this world. A fine job we seem to be doing...

  24. #24
    Hippy Scum Plunder Bunnie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Ethics
    Spirituality (i dont belong to any organised religion, but am a very spiritual person)
    Environment
    Health
    "You'd better take care of me lord, otherwise you're gonna have me on your hands" - Hunter S. Thompson

  25. #25

    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Ethics
    Health
    Religion
    Environment





    :p In life & love there are no impossibilities...

  26. #26
    maya's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    I am a kind caring person and I would never harm any animal.
    "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."

  27. #27
    sugarmouse
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    purely selfish reasons. i dotn want to die.and being part of more suffering than i could control..would mean i would commit suicide! i would be very unhappy knowing i was part of so much cruelness,so essentially i am vegan purely because it makes me happy!

  28. #28
    hydrophilic tipsy's Avatar
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    Talking Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    eithics
    environment
    the aim of life is to live, and to live means to be aware, joyously, dunkenly, serenely, divinely aware.
    -henry miller

  29. #29
    hydrophilic tipsy's Avatar
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    Talking Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Quote terrace max
    Aren't ethics, health and the environment essentially the same thing?
    they are like different facets of the same quality of caring for life...your own and others.
    the aim of life is to live, and to live means to be aware, joyously, dunkenly, serenely, divinely aware.
    -henry miller

  30. #30
    knittenkitten's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    I think I'm still working it out, but it started out looking like this:

    Environment
    Health
    Ethics
    Religion/Spirituality

    And, it's moving toward this:

    Ethics
    Environment
    Religion/Spirituality
    Health

    Since it's a process for me, I suspect the order will continue to change as I imagine new categories (for example: does politics fall under ethics/evironment? If not, I'd add a new category and put it #3 on the top list and #2 on the bottom) and learn more about the impact that my daily food choices have on myself and other beings.
    ...what is always helpful and absolutely necessary is to look kindly on the world, to be bold in pursuit of its repair, and to be comfortable in the embrace of its splendor. - William F. Schultz

  31. #31
    forthebirds
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Old thread, but new to me

    Main reasoning: To keep profits away from sadists torturing animals so they'll go out of business

    Then:

    Ethics
    Enviroment
    Health


  32. #32
    sindii's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Because i couldn't live with myself eating those poor tortured animals, then the environment, couldn't care less about my health or religion when it comes to being vegan.

  33. #33
    IndigoSea
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    I honestly don't know what order to put them in, I'd have to say all of them together.

    Well, I initially went vegan because I was diagnosed with IBS and told I couldn't eat dairy anymore. I had been toying with the idea for three years actually (I had vegan books already) and I really just needed a kick up the ass. Environment is a big one for me too, I'm very concerned about water pollution, soil deprevation, and overfishing. Overfishing is perhaps the worst of those in my eyes, and I honestly don't think there is now any such thing as an environmentally-harmless fish dinner.
    Religion is another one. Although I don't want to call myself a buddhist because I don't like being tied down, I am very interested in buddhist philosophical and spiritual beliefs. I do believe that in taking in animal products, you take in the fear and suffering that the animal felt. I've believed that since I first went vegetarian eight years ago.
    Ethics does of course come into it. I believe factory farming conditions are horrific, and the thought of animals suffering distresses me greatly. It may piss people off, but I don't think it had to be this way, with the factory farms. If animals were reared happily in natural surroundings, and well cared for and then slaughtered with great respect and care, and consumed with even greater respect and in MUCH lesser quantities than people do now, I think it could have been ok... could have been. I say that because now our culture is so far beyond repair that something like that is just not possible. I believe the same about hunting, that it doesn't have to be the way it is. We just can't live in balance anymore though, like we did for thousands of years before. I think the only real balance we can have is through veganism. I really don't want to argue that point. It's a really deep belief of mine and it's not up for discussion as far as I'm concerned. I don't believe eating meat is right, and regardless of what may have been or could be one day, I never intend to eat meat or dairy again.

  34. #34
    Rogue's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Ethics
    Environment
    Health

    religion had nothing to do with it..

  35. #35
    keykeypie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Quote forthebirds View Post
    Old thread, but new to me

    Main reasoning: To keep profits away from sadists torturing animals so they'll go out of business

    Then:

    Ethics
    Enviroment
    Health

    My thoughts exactly! And like Rogue says too, "religion had nothing to do with it"

  36. #36

    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    ethics
    environment
    health

  37. #37
    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    I am vegan because of the animals, nothing else.
    That my health has improved because of it, is a bonus.
    I've given up on human beings so the environment is less important to me as I don't think we'll ever sort ourselves or it out.

  38. #38
    perfect RedWellies's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    We need to care about the environment for the animals.
    "Do what you can with what you have where you are."
    - Theodore Roosevelt

  39. #39
    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Yes, I know the environment is important but I have no faith in human beings and sometimes think the sooner this world is non existent, the better, for us and the animals.
    If there were no more animals, there would be no more sufferring, the same goes for us. I am not saying this out of a dislike of people or to try and be controversial, I just feel that humans will never change.
    If I thought the earth of the future would be one where every living thing was respected and everyone did what was best for all life and the environment I would be very happy. Sadly, I don't think that sort of earth will ever exist.

  40. #40

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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Not contributing to the slaughter of and cruelty to animals

    I do my best to be environmentally friendly but feel it's a losing battle, seems so abstract somehow. At least in terms of animal numbers I know I save around 37 a year by being vegan. I guess I like things in concrete terms, sorry if it seems like a screwed up way of reasoning.

  41. #41
    perfect RedWellies's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Quote sandra View Post
    I just feel that humans will never change.
    I know how you feel, Sandra, but look on this board! So many people have changed! We might not see it in our lifetime, but the world is changing. Some things for the better!
    "Do what you can with what you have where you are."
    - Theodore Roosevelt

  42. #42
    PygmyGoat
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    My reasons for going Vegan were in this order:

    Animals Rights
    Health of the Planet
    My Personal Health

  43. #43
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    My reasons are a bit different
    I've always been sick eating animals so thats no.1
    then animal welfare came 2nd
    and enviroment 3rd etc

  44. #44
    IndigoSea
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Humans will never change with that attitude! I'm pretty optimistic in general, and if you do look at the progression that's been made in recent years you'll see we've improved somewhat. I mean, compare how ecologically retarded and ignorant we were in the 80's and 90's to how concious we are now. Sure, it's not as good as it could or should be- not even close, but these awakenings take time. Right now our culture it too backwards for any kind of meat consumption to be halfway ethical, and the demand for meat is just too high, and meat is too cheap. It's not valued. Maybe in time this will change, but nothing will ever change if we all sit down and give up on humanity.

  45. #45
    auntierozzi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    I found this article on the positive impact of being vegan on the environment really persuasive. It did make me wonder why George Monbiot is not vegan himself. But it did the trick for me..

    http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2002...r-get-stuffed/

    I couldn't justify eating meat, eggs or dairy after learning about nutrition, the benefits to physical and mental health a great plus.

    I'm still baffled by religion..


    Rosalind

  46. #46

    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Quote Seaside View Post
    Reverence for life. If everyone shared reverence for life, ethics, health, religion, environment, etc. would all take care of themselves.
    Couldn't have put it better myself
    "Be the change you wish to see in the world." Mahatma Gandhi.

  47. #47
    mangababe rianaelf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    LOVE ofcourse
    people who do it just for health suck, sorry, but it has to be said. These people only love thems elves

  48. #48
    PygmyGoat
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    That's a bit harsh!! . If people love themselves enough to go Vegan then they are also on course to extend that love to others. At least they're open to change, anyway! .

  49. #49
    mangababe rianaelf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    i guess
    maybe
    <am unsure but open to the possibility a little bit>

  50. #50
    perfect RedWellies's Avatar
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    Default Re: Order of reasoning for going vegan?

    Who cares as to the reason? As long as they are vegan!
    "Do what you can with what you have where you are."
    - Theodore Roosevelt

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