Veganism is NOT a diet

[cog505]

I wish people would stop trying to justify veganism in a purely dietary sense. I think it devalues the cause. Whenever people ask me if I miss meat I say of course not. It's not like giving up cakes because you're fat or not eating wheat because it doesn't agree with you. Veganism has nothing to do with diet and everything to do with... compassion, respect, life, unselfishness, humanity etc... The taste of anything in my mouth for 5 seconds does not equate to the beauty and complexity of life.

Veganism is not a diet

[eve]

You are absolutely right.

[Plunder Bunnie]

I wish people would stop trying to justify veganism in a purely dietary sense. I think it devalues the cause. Whenever people ask me if I miss meat I say of course not. It's not like giving up cakes because you're fat or not eating wheat because it doesn't agree with you. Veganism has nothing to do with diet and everything to do with... compassion, respect, life, unselfishness, humanity etc... The taste of anything in my mouth for 5 seconds does not equate to the beauty and complexity of life.

Veganism is not a diet

Agreed!

[Pilaf]

Veganism is indeed not a "diet." A friend of mine the other day suggested my "vegan diet" isn't making me lose weight and "you should eat some meat and lift weights like you used to."

I looked him dead in the eye and said "You have no idea of the deep philisophical and ethical roots to my Veganism". He changed the subject pretty quickly.

[ConsciousCuisine]

I looked him dead in the eye and said "You have no idea of the deep philisophical and ethical roots to my Veganism". He changed the subject pretty quickly.

Pilaf, you remind me of me

[Pilaf]

Should I be scared?

[ConsciousCuisine]

Hmmm, I am never scared! I guess you don't have to worry...we aren't twins

[Tigerlily]

Exactly, I agree.

Won't you just have a teeny bite of this cake I made? I know you want to!

No, it's not worth it! The chickens and the cows didn't only suffer a teeny bit for my teeny bite.

[Pilaf]

Exactly. I'm not for going around preaching it to people, but if people constantly irritate me and try to push their cruelty food on me, I'll let them know exactly how I think.

[vjonnyv]

My roommate, for some reason, has decided to be a vegan (but as I make progress and he cuts corners, he mocks how "extreme" I am). Anyway, he's doing it just for losing weight and I tell him that because of that, he's not a vegan. It's something that really does bother me.

[twinkle]

Ah, it's a bit of a catch 22 that - now when he finally falls off the wagon for good he can tell people he quit because of "holier-than-thou" vegans who kept telling him he wasn't vegan enough, and everyone will nod

It's irritating when you think people don't quite get it, but even if he's doing it for the "wrong" reasons at least that's a toehold you can work on - my housemate is s-l-o-w-l-y edging towards veganism, but he won't look at any literature or tell people he's trying to become vegan unless he has to, it's like he's ashamed of it. I don't really know how to make that better.

[Skajen]

i lost a tiny bit of weight (i mean tiny- still health size 10-12) when i turned vegan and when ppl wanted 2 know my secret i told them, they thought i was on some faddy diet! working in the mental health profession i notice a lot of people with eating disorders tend to be vegan because its restrictive, its a diet to many! to me its a lifestyle, i do it because its right not because i want to loose a few pounds!

[Pilaf]

I agree completely with Jen. If someone happens to lose a little weight, that doesn't mean he/she turned Vegan just to lose weight. In the long run, that's not the real reason people stay Vegan.

[sugarmouse]

on pro anorexia sites, i have frequently come across the advice 'go vegan' as an excuse not to eat.its just sad.

in that way,veganism is more like a religion to me...a paradigm or train of thought i follow 24 hours a day

[vjonnyv]

Ah, it's a bit of a catch 22 that - now when he finally falls off the wagon for good he can tell people he quit because of "holier-than-thou" vegans who kept telling him he wasn't vegan enough, and everyone will nod

It's irritating when you think people don't quite get it, but even if he's doing it for the "wrong" reasons at least that's a toehold you can work on - my housemate is s-l-o-w-l-y edging towards veganism, but he won't look at any literature or tell people he's trying to become vegan unless he has to, it's like he's ashamed of it. I don't really know how to make that better.

I understand that. I don't like militant vegans, but I don't like people that aren't doing it properly. It's not just about what we eat, he doesn't seem to realize the complete transition in lifestyle. But it is difficult. He won't be a vegan for much longer, which is fine by me.

Anyway, I did lose a lot of weight becoming a vegan. And I mean a lot. I lost about 25 to 30 pounds, which is fairly significant. He noticed that, and I think that may have influenced his decision.

[Roxy]

I once had a doctor of Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine tell me that he hopes I do not stay vegan for long because he doesn't think it's very healthy. I told him that I didn't think it was healthy for the animals, if I chose NOT to be vegan. He didn't continue the subject then.

Yes, I agree, Veganism involves diet but is so much more than diet. Not eating animal derived products in only one small part of such a big picture.

[Pilaf]

on pro anorexia sites, i have frequently come across the advice 'go vegan' as an excuse not to eat.its just sad.

in that way,veganism is more like a religion to me...a paradigm or train of thought i follow 24 hours a day

Exactly. It's almost dogmatic to me. Not really "religion"...more like a practical, ethical set of rules to live one's life by.

[John]

Just point out that your shoes aren't made of animals either.
What's that got to do with diet?

[Pilaf]

Exactly. A good vegan learns to omit animal products from every practical aspect of his/her life.

[Mystic]

I completely agree - and because I did have an eating disorder before, people tend to correlate the two issues. People would love it if I started eating animal products again, and I have often felt that to be "normal", I need to eat them. But I have come to realise that that is a load of crap, because the "diet" is a small portion of the entire spectrum. My shoes, belts and handbags are not made of animals, nor are my beauty products.

I cannot look at Odi in the eye and honestly believe that I have respect for animal life if I knowingly eat/wear or use them or their products.

It hurts me that pro-ana sites use animal advocacy as a means to mask their eating disorders. It gives us all a bad rep.

[tipsy]

in that way,veganism is more like a religion to me...a paradigm or train of thought i follow 24 hours a day

agreed, agreed, and when people who im not going to debate with start debating with me that is basically what i tell them...

"i dont question you about your belifs, why are you trying to argue with me about mine!"

[Pilaf]

Yes. I find it helpful not to try to "convert" people, either. If they ask a Vegan "why?", one of the best things that Vegan can do would be to provide that person with some free literature/web links to informative websites.

Of course that doesn't always work. Apparantly, my pitifully misinformed Uncle, whom is a bit of a conservative, thinks that I've joined a "cult" and that my bones are gonna break and I'm gonna die of brain swelling, despite me being the healthiest person in my immediate family. Omnis refuse to see Vegans as being healthy. The propoganda spread by the Meat, Dairy and Egg industries is so engrained in the world's conscience nowadays that people believe in it.

Propoganda can be a powerful tool indeed. Just look at Nazi Germany. Were they right? No.. but the upper echelon, the corrupt and evil people behind the scenes, uses propoganda and rhetoric to spread their views, just like the cruel Ani-ploitation industries do today to keep Vegans down.

The best thing we can do, overall, for our "image" is to attempt to appear modest, unassuming and helpful to others. Remember that they honestly don't know any better. The world is in bad need of an education about Veganism, and we all can do our part, indivudually.

[cog505]

I don't think it's helpful to use Nazi germany as a reference point for the rights of being a vegan. It concentrates on a purely evil act when veganism is about love and compassion. I hate this argument and I think it polarises veganism and makes it look extreme.

Besides anything else it's 60 years out of date.

Save extreme rationale for the righteous religious out there... they're doing a great job of f**king the world up...

[Plunder Bunnie]

Wow, a little harsh

[cog505]

It was a bit harsh. I was actually just thinking of that religious lunatic cowboy who inhabits the whitehouse, the fat one that inhabits the occupied territories of Gaza and half the leaders in the middle east.

Sorry Plunder bunny.

[Plunder Bunnie]

It was a bit harsh. I was actually just thinking of that religious lunatic cowboy who inhabits the whitehouse, the fat one that inhabits the occupied territories of Gaza and half the leaders in the middle east.

Sorry Plunder bunny.

Lol, tis alright. I agree about the fat american coyboy tho. Ive never seen such an ugly man in all my life...

[knittenkitten]

I wish people would stop trying to justify veganism in a purely dietary sense. I think it devalues the cause. Whenever people ask me if I miss meat I say of course not. It's not like giving up cakes because you're fat or not eating wheat because it doesn't agree with you. Veganism has nothing to do with diet and everything to do with... compassion, respect, life, unselfishness, humanity etc... The taste of anything in my mouth for 5 seconds does not equate to the beauty and complexity of life.

Veganism is not a diet

I've been following this thread all day and I think you've hit on something that troubles me, Cog & Plunder Bunny. Is the compassion and respect of veganism reserved only for non-human animals? Maybe I am just reading everyone's posts wrong, but there seems to be some hostility towards people who have not yet come to understand and embrace the true meaning of vegan.

I came to veganism because of environmental and dietary concerns, and am watching it slowly evolve into an ethical and spiritual consciousness. I have yet to practice the compassion and respect for all beings as fully as I would like, but it is a process and I am grateful for those who have supported (or, at least tolerated) it.

The beauty and complexity that I see in life is not the same beauty and complexity that others see (or maybe even want to see). So, how should I respond to that? My hope is that I will one day be able to respond out of compassion and humankindness - the very basis of my lifestyle choice.

Peace.

[speedylemons]

Exactly, I agree.

Won't you just have a teeny bite of this cake I made? I know you want to!

No, it's not worth it! The chickens and the cows didn't only suffer a teeny bit for my teeny bite.

You hit it on the spot there. I really get annoyed when omnis try to tell me what i want a bite of, or what i should eat. That's about when i snap back with a comment regarding how rediculous it is that they are omnis or something along those lines.

[moochbabe]

I've been following this thread all day and I think you've hit on something that troubles me, Cog & Plunder Bunny. Is the compassion and respect of veganism reserved only for non-human animals? Maybe I am just reading everyone's posts wrong, but there seems to be some hostility towards people who have not yet come to understand and embrace the true meaning of vegan.

I came to veganism because of environmental and dietary concerns, and am watching it slowly evolve into an ethical and spiritual consciousness. I have yet to practice the compassion and respect for all beings as fully as I would like, but it is a process and I am grateful for those who have supported (or, at least tolerated) it.

The beauty and complexity that I see in life is not the same beauty and complexity that others see (or maybe even want to see). So, how should I respond to that? My hope is that I will one day be able to respond out of compassion and humankindness - the very basis of my lifestyle choice.

Peace.

I really agree, I am a vegan in an attempt to love all those around me, no matter what, and even when i lose my temper with people (especially those telling me not to be vegan, etc), i still don't hate them, i don't think i truely hate anyone, but it is going to take me some time before i'm gonna be able to let go of all my hurts...

[tipsy]

I've been following this thread all day and I think you've hit on something that troubles me, Cog & Plunder Bunny. Is the compassion and respect of veganism reserved only for non-human animals? Maybe I am just reading everyone's posts wrong, but there seems to be some hostility towards people who have not yet come to understand and embrace the true meaning of vegan.

of course kitten, every one of us knows that the vegan lifstyle includes compassion towards humans also...

it just much easier to stand behind and defend animals that cannot speak for themselves, dont abuse the world and things smaller & "less intelligent" than themselves, and dont have rediculous viewpoints and opinons...

i honestly belive that every living thing on this planet deserves an equal chance to live and live unbothered and happily...but im a little frustrated (and i think many people here are) at the things that our particular species has done to this world...

in my personal case, i think this is where the hostility towards certain people comes from.

i dont think that, when it comes down to it, we wish ill upon any of these people.

[Pilaf]

Far from it, actually. I wish good on everyone. That's why I'm the way I am, and why I feel so strongly. I know the decisions I've made are right, and I know other people can do better for themselves, and that'll help them, other people, animals, and the planet. So you have to be a bit opinionated and passionate at times, for the greater good of it all.

[On the Coast]

So, I pretty much disagree with the idea that Veganism is not a diet alone. It may not be a diet for you, but that does not make it so for every Vegan. I have been Vegan for 11 years now, and it started with, and is still motivated mainly by diet. I do'nt eat animal products for the same reasons I do'nt eat people, for the same reasons I do'nt eat brussell sprouts or zuchini, I find them all to be gross. However, if the sh*t hit the fan, I would be all to willing to eat any if it was a matter of my survival.
Also, I find it a bit hilarious for Vegans to be talking about a lifestyle when they are completely (or nearly so) cut off from the means of production of the food they eat, and the products they use.. Personally, I have so much more respect for the family that husbands it's own meat in an ecological and compassionate manner, or hunts sanely, than I do for any Vegan that picks up all their groceries at the super market.
It's all good for you to feel that your Veganism encompasses some great philosophy far removed from diet, but do'nt expect or insist it is the same for all Vegans.

[On the Coast]

it just much easier to stand behind and defend animals that cannot speak for themselves, dont abuse the world and things smaller & "less intelligent" than themselves, and dont have rediculous viewpoints and opinons...

I invite you to research and study the sexual and social habits of Dolphins, Ants, Gibbon Monkeys, Squirrels, Whales, Lions, Hyenas, Apes, Beavers and dozens of other animal species. I think you may find information which refutes your claim that animals do'nt abuse the world and things smaller and less intelligent than themselves.

[Seaside]

So, I pretty much disagree with the idea that Veganism is not a diet alone. It may not be a diet for you, but that does not make it so for every Vegan. I have been Vegan for 11 years now, and it started with, and is still motivated mainly by diet. I do'nt eat animal products for the same reasons I do'nt eat people, for the same reasons I do'nt eat brussell sprouts or zuchini, I find them all to be gross. However, if the sh*t hit the fan, I would be all to willing to eat any if it was a matter of my survival.

I suggest you look at this thread.

Also, I find it a bit hilarious for Vegans to be talking about a lifestyle when they are completely (or nearly so) cut off from the means of production of the food they eat, and the products they use..

What do you suggest for vegans living in overcrowded cities in high rise apartments?

Personally, I have so much more respect for the family that husbands it's own meat in an ecological and compassionate manner, or hunts sanely, than I do for any Vegan that picks up all their groceries at the super market.

It is not possible to hunt "sanely" or to "husband meat" compassionately.

It's all good for you to feel that your Veganism encompasses some great philosophy far removed from diet, but do'nt expect or insist it is the same for all Vegans.

If you follow kosher dietary restrictions, you are following a Jewish diet. This does not make you Jewish, any more than merely following a vegan diet makes you vegan. There is a lot more to it than the diet only. That is how it is defined.

[abrennan]

life·style also life-style or life style
noun. A way of life or style of living that reflects the attitudes and values of a person or group
Veganism is NOT a diet it's a lifestyle, a way of living. Veganism includes diet but is not defined by it.

[foxytina_69]

true seaside but for alot of vegans, it does start off as a diet first. it did for me. then i became more aware of everything else and it became my lifestyle.

[chons]

I am not a vegan but I am still on the route to eating a "Vegan style diet". If I use any other kind of phrase "Non-meat, non-dairy diet" or anything similar people look at me oddly and ask me to explain or they say "So, you're vegan?".

I understand that there is a big difference between people that eat great food and people that eat great food & are vegan but a lot of people don't. A lot of people assume that "vegan" just refers to food. If someone says to me "So you're vegan?" I'll say no. I'm not and I would have no right to be labelled as Vegan. I simply would go on to explain how vegans are against any involvement with animals - including using animals for food and that although I do't share all of the Vegan beliefs, I agree with the majority of them and think that cutting any animal related products out of your diet is a great way to stay healthy.

[cog505]

KittenKitten,

I couldn't agree with you more. And also with what 'On the coast' said further down both of you are spot on. Veganism is seen as a cranky diet, inhabited by fringe lunatics. I should know, i've been a vegan for 12 years. It's all well and good hiding behind sanctimony when dealing with people who believe this but it isn't helpful. Veganism is what religion set out to be before it was hijacked by religious lunatics... love, respect, compassion.

We are part of a food chain. I feel exceptionally lucky that I can choose not to be a part of it. But most other animals including humans are part of that food chain. It's not wrong or evil but in my opinion veganism is a better alternative for every animal and human on this planet. Cats for example are natural predators, killers. Humans, keep them as pets, hate that they kill things and then feed them cows processed into a tin with jelly. Or sometimes fish in jelly. Some people even feed them a vegan alternative...is this right? Domestic cats will naturally eat things like birds and mice. It's a fact it's the food chain, it's not evil it's not wrong. People should be treated the same. Otherwise we will always be judged as a fringe movement.

[aubergine]

true seaside but for alot of vegans, it does start off as a diet first. it did for me. then i became more aware of everything else and it became my lifestyle.

Me too.

[Plunder Bunnie]

I've been following this thread all day and I think you've hit on something that troubles me, Cog & Plunder Bunny. Is the compassion and respect of veganism reserved only for non-human animals? Maybe I am just reading everyone's posts wrong, but there seems to be some hostility towards people who have not yet come to understand and embrace the true meaning of vegan.

??? I have never been hostile to non vegans because they are not vegan. Are you reffering to my comment about george bush? Sure, i am more cynical about other human beings, but that is because i tend to find them superfical and very much so to be self rightous. This dosent mean i feel that way about all people. I actually want to help people, and that is my goal in life. I want to be a social worker, but not here in Canada. Id rather work in an african slum with prostitutes and drug addicts. I think humans have potential, but here and north america, many of them are walking zombies. My opinions may not all be sunshine and rainbows, but that dosent make me bad, or unspiritual person , it makes me me. I am infact an extremely spiritual person who thinks the every nation of peoples has great potential if it could shed some of its greed and supremacy.

[cog505]

To be honest, I think you'd be better off carrying out your work in north america. Africa is the result of western world consumption (partly) Why treat the effect when you're in a position to affect the cause?

[Plunder Bunnie]

[Because that is not what i would find rewarding out of life. I will do what i can here, and continue to do it when i am not here. I only have one life and my desire is to do ti helping people that at least my portion of the world has alrgely left out. I understand what you mean, and others have told me the same. My father wanted me to be a politician or a lawyer, both of which i am not interested in. I want to help people, i want to travel, i want to write and have an adventurous life. I dont feel i can achieve that here.

[Korn]

It may not be a diet for you, but that does not make it so for every Vegan.

Yes, it does, because if they declare that veganism is only about diet, they are not vegans . Take a brief look at the birth and development of the vegan movement, and you'll understand what I mean...

I think you may find information which refutes your claim that animals do'nt abuse the world and things smaller and less intelligent than themselves.

That some animals abuse, kill or eat other animals doesn't mean that all animals 'abuse the world and things smaller and less intelligent than themselves'. Even if ALL other animals would kill and eat other animals, which is not at all the case, why should you or I do it? I think it's essential to get beyond the point where we look at other animals (or humans) and declare that 'they do it, so it must be right/'natural' for me to do it'.

Jjdaiquiri wrote that 'it just much easier to stand behind and defend animals that cannot speak for themselves, dont abuse the world and things smaller & "less intelligent" than themselves, and dont have rediculous viewpoints and opinons...'. That's different from claiming that

animals do'nt abuse the world and things smaller and less intelligent than themselves

[Plunder Bunnie]

I think it's essential to get beyond the point where we look at other animals (or humans) and declare that 'they do it, so it must be right/'natural' for me to do it'.

Yea, thats very true. I think its funny that people seperate themselves from animals in every regard because they assume their superior, EXCEPT when they're arguing against vegetarianism.

[puffin]

I have never thought that deeply why i am vegan. I just am, and always will be. Veganism is the way i live my life, the way i choose to live. I dont think it is like a religion, well its not for me. I didnt even know about how badly animals were treated when i became veggie and didnt learn that much more by the time i first became vegan. I didnt need convincing by peta etc to do the right thing. I just learnt that abusing animals for our own selfish wants is wrong by looking around and seeing all the selfish people in the world who dont give a damm who and what they hurt to get what they want. I didnt want to be a part of that, pure and simple. I live a life of compassionate living to the best of my ability, and no its not just a diet, it is only a diet to those who quite veganism and go back to being omni. The ones who didnt care that much in the first place.

[knittenkitten]

??? I have never been hostile to non vegans because they are not vegan. Are you reffering to my comment about george bush?

Sorry, Plunder Bunny. I wasn't clear in my earlier post. I meant that your suggesting that Cog's comment was "harsh" raised the issue for me. Not anything that you said beyond that .

In a roundabout way, I was trying to suggest what foxytina said so succinctly...choosing a vegan diet could (and often does) blossom into a vegan lifestyle. So, should those who follow an animal-free diet be denied the use of the term "vegan" until they have completed some rite of passage and embrace the one, right and true vegan lifestyle?

I guess my concern here (having come from a religious fundamentalist background) is how vegans can (or if they should even bother trying to) avoid the same traps that religions, political parties and such fall into - the "us/them", "we're right/they're wrong", "we're the one true x/they are the impostors" mindsets that harm rather than heal.

[knittenkitten]

Sorry, Plunder Bunny. I wasn't clear in my earlier post. I meant that your suggesting that Cog's comment was "harsh" raised the issue for me. Not anything that you said beyond that .

Hmmm, don't think I made any more sense there (above) than the first time...I agreed with you P.B. - it was harsh (and other comments that I'd seen throughout the day and on other threads since I've been around have been of similar tones...that's what prompted my initial post). But, I do understand that sometimes we just need a place to express our frustrations!

[Plunder Bunnie]

Tis alright! I wasent upset or anything, just confused. I didnt know i portrayed myself that way. i guess thats the problems with computers, its hard to convey how you feel emotionally!!

[Seaside]

true seaside but for alot of vegans, it does start off as a diet first. it did for me. then i became more aware of everything else and it became my lifestyle.

Thank you, foxytina. I know it does for a lot of people, and I believe that spiritually, (not religiously!) as a person eliminates the products of death and suffering from their diet, it is possible to become aware that veganism is about more than just eliminating animals from the diet. After all, not using leather, wool, silk, and animal-infused body care products has nothing to do with the diet. It is about living with compassion for other beings, not just avoiding their use because they are disgusting, and I think even if you don't start out thinking this way, you may eventually arrive at this way of thinking.

Animal flesh in particular has been found to be full of the adrenaline and other hormones that are present in the animal at the time of death. These are there because the animal has been tortured and terrified, and I don't see how this can promote spiritual or physical health in those people who are consuming them. I think their absence in the diets of folks going vegetarian or vegan is partly what makes it possible for people to go beyond the physical aspects of diet alone, and realize that what they are doing has greater implications.

I am not trying to be exclusive or elitist here, I am just objecting to the idea that these beliefs are hilarious, as they are important to me. I also believe in the right of a group of people to set definitions for what they think they are, and I feel that these definitions should be respected. Like I said before, the folks who observe kosher restrictions are following a Jewish diet, but they are not Jews until they go beyond that into a more non-physical realm of thought. This is not intended to demean anyone merely following a diet, or to imply that is impossible to go beyond following a diet, or even to imply that starting off following the diet makes some vegans inferior to others. It is just a simple matter of definitions. Those who don't go beyond diet are vegitans, or strict vegetarians, and those who do go beyond diet are vegans. There is no value judgement in this, just definition.

[knittenkitten]

Thank you, Seaside. You (and so many others here) write eloquently and everyone is helping me think through these issues more fully.