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Thread: Is soya bad for our health - and do we actually need soya?

  1. #51
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    I was under the impression that Japanese did consume animals? I remember reading that the Buddhist were not allowed to eat other animals, but fish was viewed as ‘ok’. I remember reading in a few books that some Japanese started consuming more animals around the 15th century. I believe around the time when they were introduced to the Western style of eating.

    I think the article is referring to isolates since it states ‘meat & milk’ some of your ‘soy meats’ do use isolates. I think ‘Gimme Lean’ and ‘Boca Burger’ contain soy isolates. Some of the soymilks might as well. The occasions I do consume ‘soy milk’ or make the occasional ‘soy meat’ for family/friends. I will make it myself.

  2. #52
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    Quote feline01
    Yes, that's how I formulated my question. I don't blindly post in threads based on an article. The article didn't say and I wasn't clear if soy lecithin is a form of soy isolate or is something completely different.

    Did you somehow get the impression I was implying I agree soy is bad? I certainly don't think it is though I agree about moderation and avoiding highly processed soy products. Which leads me back to my original question regarding soy lecithin, I don't know if that is considered highly processed.
    Hi feline01
    This article can explain soy lecithin better than myself. I use it in products for very rough/dry skin instead of beeswax. It works as a humecant, sealing in moisture. It is great if you are in a humid climate, since it will aid in drawing moisture from the air to be absorbed into your skin. If you don't live in a humid area you should avoid those products of the most part, or make your area 'humid' (humidifier, steam, etc,) a tiny amount goes a long way.

    Personally, I think of it as being highly processed. I could be wrong.

  3. #53
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    Thanks Mz,

    That article really praised soy including lecithin. They made the extraction process seem so natural. Even the babies' organic brown rice cereal has soy lecithin in it. We're getting antsy about their consumption of so much soy so we're trying to eliminate wherever possible and really start urging the solids so their soy formula consumption decreases.

  4. #54
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    Quote feline01
    Thanks Mz,

    That article really praised soy including lecithin. They made the extraction process seem so natural. Even the babies' organic brown rice cereal has soy lecithin in it. We're getting antsy about their consumption of so much soy so we're trying to eliminate wherever possible and really start urging the solids so their soy formula consumption decreases.
    Yes they did don’t they? It seemed 'unnatural' when I read that process. I figured you would have the same feeling I received after reading the ‘Processing’ information. You seem to question things, just as myself no matter how glowing the information.
    I definitely can relate to being apprehensive about soy. It is showing up, in some form, in a lot of things. It makes me really stick to the whole foods even more. Jade does not get too many soy-based products in her eating. She does like roasted soy nuts & raisins as an occasional treat. I make her soymilk occasionally. We both like the homemade nut milks a lot more.

  5. #55
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    I always buy the organic, 'plain' type, unsweetened Soya Milk which I feel is (at least compared with a lot of foodstuffs), pretty safe to consume once a day.
    However, I am regretting my earlier 'flippant' answer to this thread, as I do worry about the processed 'meats' made with Soya, and I care VERY much about GM Soya.
    I just hate articles that try to scare vegetarians into eating Meat - as if that could be the 'healthy' option????

  6. #56
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    We still have a few more months on the organic soy formula/breastmilk. We're then going to ease off of the formula and switch them to fortified nut + rice milks. I'm easing me and my husband into a much more legume based diet since we have been eating alot of tofu so the babies will follow suit. The only fake meat products I buy are the tofurkey products, they seem to be relatively well-made for an occasional treat.

  7. #57
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    Quote PinkFluffyCloud
    I just hate articles that try to scare vegetarians into eating Meat - as if that could be the 'healthy' option????
    I agree it can make you think all soy is bad.
    It’s like saying ‘all vegetarians are unhealthy’. Why sure it can be if you eat unhealthy, processed, fried foods, and very little whole foods.

  8. #58
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    there's an article in my local paper today about apparent growing concerns about soya. it says some particularly scare-mongering things like "One report claims babies who are fed on soya milk consume the equivalent of five contraceptive pills a day."

    the article sums up the pros and cons of soya and the pros are pretty much the usual - good for the heart, reduced risk of breast cancer, could protect against osteoporosis etc. the cons are as follows:

    Your periods might be affected. Women fed soya formula as babies could experience long and painful periods, according to a study. A woman drinking two glasses of soya milk a day may see her menstrual cycle alter

    Men's fertility could be affected. The more soya a man eats, the more difficulty he will have in fertilising an egg, was the conclusion of Dr Lorraine Anderson who discovered sperm moved slower when the liquid surrounding it contained female-like hormones. In animals, large amounts of female-like plant hormones have been shown to reduce fertility. When marmosets, (small monkeys) were fed soya milk formula in a study it suppressed their testosterone levels. Pregnant women in the US were advised by scientists to avoid soya after tests on rats suggested a chemical in it could damage unborn boys' reproductive organs

    Children with a cow's milk allergy could become sensitive to soya if they are fed only on baby soya milk

    Mothers are advised not to feed babies soya milk baby formula as their sole source of food before six months, except on medical advice. This recommendation came from paediatric experts and the Government following the working group report. After six months, babies are generally eating solids and the risk is considered not so great. Sue Dibb, senior policy officer of the National Consumer Council, advises parents to be cautious. "You're giving the baby a dose of a hormonally active substance at a time when babies are developing. That is a concern even when the evidence is not very clear cut," she says

    Eating soya for a long time can suppress the working of the thyroid gland, which is associated with metabolism, according to research

    There is some evidence plant oestrogens can encourage the growth of oestrogen-dependent breast cancer.

    the whole article can be found here http://www.theargus.co.uk/the_argus/...FEATURES0.html

    in the paper they recommend alternatives such as goats' milk, sheep's milk and horse milk (!!!) all above oat and rice milk. despite all these scare stories they still admit a safe amount of soya is one or two products a day, e.g. a serving of tofu, a glass of soya milk etc.
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    Quote Gorilla
    Men's fertility could be affected. The more soya a man eats, the more difficulty he will have in fertilising an egg, was the conclusion of Dr Lorraine Anderson who discovered sperm moved slower when the liquid surrounding it contained female-like hormones. (
    Well, my husband has been vegan for over 2 years and we conceived twins even after he was eating way more than 1-2 servings of soy a day /

  10. #60
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    I think negative report of soy products is mainly influenced by dairy industry because of too much competetion between dairy industry and soy industry.
    Robert Cohen has excellent website about dairy products and here is link.
    www.notmilk.com
    After viewing this website, who want to eat dairy products?
    Not me.

  11. #61
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    I very much agree, suzulan. Soya was good for you and not a problem at all until people started consuming it and buying it instead of dairy products and now all of a sudden, soya is right up there with enviromental pollution and nuclear waste? hmmmmmm..... *scratches chin*

    I've read several things from offline sources that indicate that the hormonal quality in soy is nothing, nothing, nothing like that of animal products. But the way that article is written, it makes soy sound like taking a full bottle of estrogen in one sitting which is highly rediculous.

    It seems to me that I've aslo read something quite unsavory about the National Consumer Council but right now, I can't remember what it is or where I found it (so I can't give link just now).

    There is some evidence plant oestrogens can encourage the growth of oestrogen-dependent breast cancer.
    And her evidences are nothing but bull cookies, shot straight from the hole. If I'm reading this article correctly, it seems that it's the lower the soy intake, the higher the incidences of breast cancer, colon cancer and heart disease. This is just one article, but I've read several just like it, all indicating that soy is beneficial, not harmful.

  12. #62
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    I do not believe that processed soy is very good, (fake meats, etc) but tofu, tempeh, soy milk, soy yogurt, TVP, miso, etc are very good. Who says drinking soy milk is bad?! bovine milk is loaded with female hormones, BGH, pus, benzyl penicillin.....the list goes on....

  13. #63
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    Statistics and reports can always be interpreted to suit the researcher.

  14. #64
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    Not read all the posts on this thread, so sorry if this has already been mentioned. There are a number of ''studies'' circulating, which state that soya is bad for you. Now check who's done the research and who's funded it. Now there's a surprise, it's the meat and dairy industry! In other words, I take those studies with a great big pinch of salt, and use that to flavour my tofu! :P

    See ya,
    Billy
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  15. #65
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    Blah Blah this is bad for you that is bad for you Blah Blah we hear all this sort of thing everyday.
    I will never forget the milk marketing board investing in a campign to say that you must drink at least one pint of cows milk a day to stay healthy.

    At the end of the day being vegan outways all the risks that are related to eating animals and animal by-products.

    I will continue to eat soya and if it kills me so be it, at least I can rot without the guilt of animal by-products rotting along with me.

    At the end of the day we will decide what we want to eat not some anti-vegan boffin locked in a lab payed to say what his investors want to hear.

    If a company like Provamel invested research into soya and found this out I would listen to them.
    Go confidently in the direction of your dreams

  16. #66
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    Yes, I am so sick of hearing these kind of things every day - what the F*** should we eat????? Many fruits and veggies are laden with chemicals, soya is bad for you, wheat causes allergies, nuts are calorific, water is toxic - all these things may well be true, but they sure are safer than dead animals mechanically scraped off the abbatoir floor.

  17. #67
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    BTW - my last doctor told me he had changed himself, his wife, and 3 young kids to a Veggie diet for HEALTH reasons, he didn't give a Flying Fig about the animals. This kind of annoyed me at the time, but think about it, what does that tell you about the dangers of a meat-based diet in contrast with a Veggie one???

  18. #68
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    Pardon?
    I have been a Vegan 5 years, so if you meant that info for me, it's ok, I know all about it - who are you getting at? My doctor???? I wouldn't class him as Vegan as he only eats a strict Veggie diet, I am not sure who on this site you think DOESN'T know about dairy - erm, that's why we are Vegans!

  19. #69
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    Quote PinkFluffyCloud
    BTW - my last doctor told me he had changed himself, his wife, and 3 young kids to a Veggie diet for HEALTH reasons, he didn't give a Flying Fig about the animals. This kind of annoyed me at the time, but think about it, what does that tell you about the dangers of a meat-based diet in contrast with a Veggie one???

    Thing is, as long as they keep at it, I don't think the cow/pig/chicken won't give a flying fig either why they don't get abused and eaten!

    Btw I totally agree with PFC: please don't post horror stories about animal cruelty here! It was my exposure to this that made me go vegan 10 years ago, I know about it now, I don't need to get it rubbed in no more! Please don't ''preach to the converted''! Suzulan, to be honest, as soon as I started reading the horror stories I scrolled down and skipped it altogether, and might've missed any other valuable points that you might have made. Going off topic happens, I just don't want to read about the cruelty that animals in the various industries are subjected to. Maybe start a thread about ''reasons to go vegan'' (I think there is one already, have a check to see of any of the animal cruelty explicits have been addressed yet).
    Anyway, back on topic: we're having some mashed malarky with TVP for tea tonight, yummy! So nice, can't be bad for you!

    See ya,
    Billy
    please grant me the senility to forget about people I never liked anyway

  20. #70

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    This is strange. Back to soya, perhaps?
    utopiankitchen.wordpress.com

  21. #71
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    The dairy industry says soy is bad, the soy industry says soy is good. They are both right, and they are both comparing apples with oranges. Fermented soy is good. The soy industry, therefore, tells of the wonders of soy conveniently omitting the bad news on the non-fermented soy (soy milk, for example). Non-fermented soy is bad for women who are predisposed to, or already have breast cancer, and for everyone consuming it because of the "plastic effect". Of course, the dairy industry is quick to point this out, while conveniently omitting the benefits of fermented soy.

    It's very simple: fermented soy (playing the role of the "apples" in the analogy) is very, very good for you. This includes miso, tempeh, and fermented tofu. You should eat it every day! Non-fermented soy (playing the role of the "oranges" in the analogy) is bad for you and includes all the products not marked "un-fermented".

    There are no contradicting studies about soy. The studies only appear this way because they are comparing apples with oranges.

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    Where are your references to prove that non-fermented soy is bad?
    Eve

  23. #73
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    I usually hear omni's say that the only soy that is healthy is fermented soy. I think they are the last folks on earth to try and tell me what is healthy.

    When you have so many conflicting reports out there, you are left with a decision on which side of the story to believe. I believe soy is healthy and I do not plan on omitting it from my diet any time soon.

  24. #74
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    Quote eve
    Where are your references to prove that non-fermented soy is bad?
    I read this explanation years ago and honestly don't remember where. However, I can give you a link to an article written by and for the soy industry (so it is biased in the favor of soy) which recognizes the benefits of fermented soy over the Western manufactured type which blocks calcium absorption among other things.

    http://www.wellbeingjournal.com/soy.htm

    I will do my best to find the data for you, but I imagine it will take a while.

    Personally, I consume fermented soya regularly. Once in a while I drink soy milk because I like the taste, but I make a point of not consuming it daily, or even weekly. I am 35 years old, no children, and don't plan on having children. As such, I am at higher risk for breast or reproductive cancer. It is my understanding that my risk is lowered back to that of being an omni woman with children by the simple fact that I am a strict vegetarian. Nonetheless, I am extra careful when it comes to products that might raise my risk down the road.

  25. #75
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    Quote FR
    When you have so many conflicting reports out there, you are left with a decision on which side of the story to believe. I believe soy is healthy and I do not plan on omitting it from my diet any time soon.

    I see no harm in choosing fermented products more often. They are delicious and true to Asian tradition, not to mention they have been proven to have tremendous health benefits thanks to the process of fermentation.

  26. #76
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    Asians eat both types of soy, not just fermented.

    Their soy consumption is among the highest on the planet.

    Their incidences of heart attack, stroke, impotence and certain cancers were among the lowest on the planet until they developed a more "western" style of eating. Now, these issues are on the rise. But it is not because of the soy they eat.

    I am in a very high group for breast cancer as well. I have a strong family history of breast and reproductive cancers, I'm also childless and I had a lumpectomy when I was a teenager. I eat soy without fear because I have read several places that indicate that soy prevents the growth and spread of cancer cells, it does not increase them.

    So far, I have not had one problem with cancers or any re-occuring lumps. My sisters, aunts and mother have not been so fortunate. They do not eat soy at all. I do.

  27. #77
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    I have a question about soy allergy...I'm not sure if this is the right thread but it seems like it, you know, "soya is bad for you" and all...okay, okay I know it's not about soy allergies, but I couldn't find another one. So anyway...I have a suspicion that my mom really wants to go vegan, but she is allergic to soy. The thing is, she only has a reaction when it is processed, like tofu. She can eat soy beans just fine. Do you think it might be something they use to process it?
    "The question is not, can they reason? Nor, can they talk? But, can they suffer?"--Jeremy Bentham

  28. #78
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    I think it is for your mother to deal with, if she really does want to go vegan. In any event vegans don't *have* to eat soy, there are plenty of vegies, fruits, nuts, lentils, beans, etc, etc.
    Eve

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    Huh...I guess what I was hoping for was a cure for soy allergy . I know it's her choice not to be vegan, it just sucks cause she can't eat any of my cooking, which I figure if she could eat it, that would be one less animal killed/harmed.
    "The question is not, can they reason? Nor, can they talk? But, can they suffer?"--Jeremy Bentham

  30. #80

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    Hey folks, that article is a rewrite of Sally Fallons persuasive anti-soy article (it's even refrenced at the end of the article). In fact most anti-soy articles are. For those that don't know, Sally Fallon is very much a lobbyist for the beef and dairy industry. The article is literally full of lies, ones that have been ripped apart by so many people, yet pseudo-news sites constantly keep posting it and refrencing it.

  31. #81
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    Quote Kelzie
    I have a question about soy allergy...I'm not sure if this is the right thread but it seems like it, you know, "soya is bad for you" and all...okay, okay I know it's not about soy allergies, but I couldn't find another one. So anyway...I have a suspicion that my mom really wants to go vegan, but she is allergic to soy. The thing is, she only has a reaction when it is processed, like tofu. She can eat soy beans just fine. Do you think it might be something they use to process it?
    It's very possible.

    But as Eve said, vegans don't necessarily *have* to eat soy to be vegan. Believe it or not, it's really not a requirement.

    If you cook with a lot of tofu, then my recommondation would be to try finding dishes that don't involve tofu so she can eat them, too.
    It's vegan, which means it's vegetarian which means there's nothing unheathy in it. -- my guy trying to explain vegan junkfood.

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    I though soya was good. Mum read somewhere that it helps reduce cancer. I'm glad she found that out. She and dad used to believe very strongly in the 'need' for meat.

  33. #83
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    Default Soya

    Hello all, I am in the process of becoming vegan, but today I read some alarming things about soya. Basically I just want a rounded view on how healthy it is to replace meat with soya.

    Glen

  34. #84
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    hello, glen welcome!!. What did you read about soya??.
    There is I guess something here somewhere about soya, look in the search part.

  35. #85
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    The Weston A Price foundation (meat advocates) are hell bent on debunking soy products. They are even trying to file a class action law suit against companies that sell soy products because of all the people that have been "harmed by soy".

    From what I understand soy beans have something else in them that is bad for you, and that is why they have to be processed into soy milk, soy sauce, tofu, etc. But I think it's very healthy, certainly not bad, to consume soy products.

    If you are concerned, or have an allergy to soy, hemp is a very good choice as well and it's just as easy. You can make hemp milk, tofu, burgers, etc. Hemp is actually a better source of protein, has the perfect ratio of omega's, and is a good source of vitamin E.

  36. #86
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    Default Re: Soya

    Everything in moderation, Glen! You certainly wouldn't want to be eating a diet soley based on soy products. Fresh fruits and vegetables and whole grains should be making up the bulk of your diet...with soy products every now and then, like a glass of chocolate soy milk (highly recommended, yumm!) or a plate of tofu stir fry, for example.

    You shouldn't be replacing non-vegan stuff solely with soy. Veganism isn't all about replacing meat and dairy with "fakes". You should experiment with new things and try to change the old habits of eating the same old "stand bys". I'm not sure if I'm making much sense, though...

    That's my two cents!

    Good luck with your veganism!

  37. #87
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    Default Re: Soya

    This article is the one that stated me worrying...

  38. #88
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    From what I read, those articles made no mention of organic vs non-organic, or GMO vs non-GMO. I would be interested to know how the research was conducted. If what those articles say are true for organic non-GMO soybeans, then I would switch entirely to hemp in a heartbeat.

  39. #89
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    Default Re: Soya

    I don't know but it is putting me off turning vegan a little bit. I was wholeheartedly into the idea before. I know there are other replacements but all i could get in my supermarket was tofu :-(

  40. #90
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    Default Re: Soya

    Most supermarkets I've seen sell tempeh, sietan, and others, as well as almond and rice milk. If not, you could try a health food store if one is available in your area.

  41. #91
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    Default Re: Soya

    I shouldn't worry too much about what Dr Mercola said, he is quite heavy handed with the pro-meat, anti-vegan/vegetarian rhetoric, see this thread for more of his drivel and apparent reasons as to why (in particular post No.10).
    Blackadder: Baldrick, have you no idea what irony is?
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  42. #92
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    Default Re: Soya

    Isnt tempeh also soy?

  43. #93
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    Default Re: Soya

    Quote Glen
    Isnt tempeh also soy?
    Have a look at this thread Glen.

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    Default Re: Soya

    Quote Tigerlily
    like a glass of chocolate soy milk (highly recommended, yumm!)
    not to start something here, but i gotta with the chocolate almond breeze. i've never had any kind of soy milk that even comes close to touching it

  45. #95
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    Quote mattd
    not to start something here, but i gotta with the chocolate almond breeze. i've never had any kind of soy milk that even comes close to touching it
    Gotta agree with you here, mattd. That stuff is fantastic and I used the plain almond breeze to make oatmeal. Delicious .

  46. #96
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    Agreed about the chocolate almond breeze.

    Mercola and Weston A. Price are two whose "information" should never be taken seriously.
    It's vegan, which means it's vegetarian which means there's nothing unheathy in it. -- my guy trying to explain vegan junkfood.

  47. #97
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    Default Re: Soya

    Okay, so moving on slightly, how often do you guys eat tofu / soya a week? And do you use soya milk every day?

    Glen

  48. #98
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    It depends.

    Some weeks, every day. Some weeks, hardly at all.

    No, I don't use soy milk every day.
    It's vegan, which means it's vegetarian which means there's nothing unheathy in it. -- my guy trying to explain vegan junkfood.

  49. #99
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    Default Re: Soya

    I drink soymilk pretty much every day yes (2-3 glasses a day). I don't often eat tofu because i'm not very good at cooking it. I get most of my protein from soymilk, oatmeal, bread, peanut butter, rice, and most recently hemp seeds.

  50. #100
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    Default Re: Soya

    Soya milk - rarely, I prefer Rice Milk (Provamel's is fortified with B12 and calcium and tastes nice).

    Tofu - hardly ever, just don't like it, I prefer pulses, beans or occassionally VegeMince.

    Other Soya products - Alpro Soya yogurts (really scrummy), Alpro Soya Desserts, Swedish Glace/Tofutti Icecreams -probably five days out of seven (average) I eat one of these.
    Blackadder: Baldrick, have you no idea what irony is?
    Baldrick: Yes, it's like goldy and bronzy only it's made out of iron.

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