Is soya bad for our health - and do we actually need soya?

[Jacqui]

Have Bonsoy
Yummmmm, well worth the extra money!

[englishvegoboi]

Have Bonsoy
Yummmmm, well worth the extra money!

[Morna]

Any thoughts on how much soy is too much? I haven't bought into the anti-soy hype, but I do know that a varied diet is the key to good nutrition, and so many vegan products are made of soy, I don't want to overload.

[Tigerlily]

I think too much soy would be when soy is in every meal every day.

[Morna]

I need to learn how to make my own burger patties from beans and so forth. Too much tofu recently.

[Pilaf]

I guess some variety of refried beans would be your best bet, although the exact process is unknown to me..

Why not vegan friendly burritos? Make your own flour tortillas in a vegan friendly way. It'll be delicious. Use Nutritional Yeast for the "cheese", and put some veggies in there. Mmmm mmmm good.

[treehugga]

I need to learn how to make my own burger patties from beans and so forth. Too much tofu recently.

Here is an excellent recipe for burgers made with kidney beans but you could substitute just about any.

MEXICAN BEAN BURGERS

1 large can kidney beans
1 large onion chopped
1 clove garlic chopped
2 tabelspoons tomato paste
1 teaspoon chilli paste

Process in food processor or mash really well.

Add about 1/3 to 1/2 a cup breadcrumbs to mix to a firm but pliable consistancy and shape into burgers with hands then rub in breadcrubs and fry or bbq until browned.

Delicious served with vegan sour cream and salad on a bun.

Or you can make similar burgers by using 2 medium cans of chickpeas instead of the beans and adding a teaspoon of ground cumin.

Kids love these burgers and so do meateaters from my experience.

[veggiegirl3]

How do you know if a soy product contains isolates? Does it say it in the ingrediants? Do Boca Burger Vegan burgers contain them and Silk Soymilk? What about tofu? Those are the forms of tofu I eat. I try to limit it to that because I have a thyroid condition and I heard large amounts of soy can be bad for your thyroid if you have a thyroid problem.

[Pilaf]

I guess it depends on how processed it all is, Veggiegirl. I'd imagine plain tofu would be less processed than Veggieburgers, and Soymilk would be less processed than the Tofu in many cases.

Now as far as I know, for another "meat alternative", seitan is supposed to be fairly safe.

[ukahela]

but also in moderate amounts - seitan is gluten, and in people with a predisposition to coeliac's disease or gluten intolerance, eating much gluten may trigger these conditions. i suppose most things are best in moderation..

some dislike the 'overly meatish' texture of seitan, though

[cvC]

I've just been reading a closed thread in which there was a question about a possible link between soy and breast cancer and thought I would post this:

http://www.mercola.com/2005/aug/30/s...ealth_food.htm

[gertvegan]

Have a look at this thread cvC.

[cvC]

Thankyou.

[annabanana]

Is it ok to eat soya products?
I have just become vegan (yesterday ) but I have been reading some confusing stuff about soya, that it is not good for you (though I am not sure why) and that ethically, because they are cutting down rainforest to grow it, it is not an environmentally friendly crop at the moment.
Does anyone know anymore about it?

[Pob]

Hi Anna, welcome to the forums.

There is a lot of hype from both sides about the health benefits or problems of soya. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Don't eat soya as your exclusive source of protein and you should't have too many problems. Wheat gluten makes far better fake meats, anyway. Soya milk is nice, though. You should take an iodine supplement (kelp tablet) as a vegan, anyway, which would prevent one of the supposed issues with soya.

Most soya is grown to feed animals (and that soya is mostly GMO). By eating small amounts of non-gmo soya you will be doing far less harm than people who eat animals that eat tonnes of the stuff. Not all soya is grown on cleared rainforest land - though it probably isn't clear which is and which isn't.

Palm oil is probably more of an issue - it's just about the only solid non-hydrogenated vegetable fat. It's used in everything from foods to soap. Orangutang habitat is being cleared to grow the stuff

[herbwormwood]

Is it ok to eat soya products?
I have just become vegan (yesterday ) but I have been reading some confusing stuff about soya, that it is not good for you (though I am not sure why) and that ethically, because they are cutting down rainforest to grow it, it is not an environmentally friendly crop at the moment.
Does anyone know anymore about it?

Alpro don't make their soya products from rainforest soya. Neither do Granose. Many soya companies state their products are non GM. Compnies will respond to our enquiries about whare they source the soyas, so email or write to the company which makes your favourite brand. It is good to show them we care where it comes from.
As Rob pointed out, most soya is grown to feed meat and dairy animals.
As for the health concerns, I think this is hype from the dairy industry. But again, I agree with Rob that it is not wise to eat too much of one thing. Like it wouldn't be good to eat too much wheat, or too much beetroot, or too much seaweed! Or too much of any one thing!

[ILoveBunnies]

Here is a good article frm John robbins on the subject:
http://www.foodrevolution.org/what_about_soy.htm

My own belief is that soy is perfectly safe, seeing as how Asians have lots eaten it for many centuries with no apparent adverse effects. I try to eat it at least once a day.

[Korn]

Hi, we also have this thread:
Is soya bad for your health?

[Mr Flibble]

As those have said and condensed into 3 sentences: 100s of millions of people in the east have eaten soya for thousands of years without a problem. Soya grown to end up in milk or tofu accounts for an insignificant percentage - the vast majority of producers of vegan products will only source organic and non gmo soya. The main cause of vast soya production, especially cheap as possible soya production (GM, non organic etc) are those who fuel the meat industry - quite the opposite of those who are vegan

[kriz]

I eat only non-GMO organic tofu and soymilk. The other soy products are usually highly processed and contain too many other weird ingredients. I also enjoy different kind of beans, almond and rice milks , so I don't NEED to eat soy all the time - it's always good to mix it up a little and eat a variety of food products.

[dharma]

As those have said and condensed into 3 sentences: 100s of millions of people in the east have eaten soya for thousands of years without a problem. Soya grown to end up in milk or tofu accounts for an insignificant percentage - the vast majority of producers of vegan products will only source organic and non gmo soya. The main cause of vast soya production, especially cheap as possible soya production (GM, non organic etc) are those who fuel the meat industry - quite the opposite of those who are vegan

Thanks for that Mr Flibble. These days I'm increasingly asked by people about vegans and soya because of the health, GMO and rainforest distruction issues. Next time I'm asked I can give them a good, concise answer

[Sparrow]

I drink 700ml of Soya milk and some tofu as well each day. Hope that's not too much soy products in one day!

[DancingWillow]

I know that this is a controversial issue at this moment. As someone pointed out, this could just be a hype from the dairy industry, especially since contradictory evidence (such as Asians' diet) exists...I'm really not sure

I personally avoid soy products as much as possible. I mostly eat fruits, veggies, nuts, grains, bread, cereal, and other products. I don't like meat substitutes, so that eliminates a lot of soy. For dairy substitutes, I use almond milk and rice ice-cream. I sometimes but rarely buy soy cream cheese and soy sour cream. I also use a little bit of soy margerine and rarely buy tofu. For me it's not hard to avoid soy and eat it in very small amounts and rarely.

I would like to read more on the issue, especially from non-biased sources (biased from neither the dairy side or the soy side). One book that seems interesting is "The Whole Soy Story: The Dark Side of America's Favorite Health Food". I'm not sure whether its publication was funded/supported from the dairy industies though.

[Tigerlily]

I want to say, although a lot of people in Asia eat soy, they usually aren't eating it as a replacement for meat, dairy, cheese, like we are in the West.

[eclectic_one]

This link was on the other thread that Korn put up a link to and I think it VERY well explains the truth about soy (as we know it at this point in history): http://www.foodrevolution.org/what_about_soy.htm

I personally eat soy quite often, but I do try to eat non-GMO and unprocessed soy as John Robbins discusses. A lot of the studies that discuss the "negatives" of soy concerned people who ate soy as their main (if not only) protein source and didn't eat a variety of foods. I can't think of any food that would be healthy for you if that's all (or almost all) you ever ate! I also tend to think a lot of the negative publicity is put out by the meat/dairy/egg industries. The dairy industry has a continuing lawsuit against soy/rice/almond/oat "milk" producers as they are claiming that "milk" only applies to cow milk. They've also lost a good part of their market to people who've stopped drinking cow's milk. [BTW, I just saw an article on 8th continent soymilk. So far they are the only non-vegan soymilk--they use D3 from lanolin and other animal-sourced ingredients--and they use GMOs as well ]

[herbwormwood]

I want to say, although a lot of people in Asia eat soy, they usually aren't eating it as a replacement for meat, dairy, cheese, like we are in the West.

How do they eat it then? I don't understand this.Can you describe?
We have a large 'asian of chinese region origin' conmunity here and we also have a tofu factory in our area (Gateshead) and the tofu fctory markets its products locally aimed at the chinese community with various tofu based fake meats. "Vegetarian bowel" was the most repulsive I examined!
(Geordies take note and pm me if you want to know where to buy it).
I know a lot of asians cannot digest dairy products at all. I had an asian friend living here from Hong Kong and she had a lot of trouble adjusting to the western diet and actually had to see a hospital specialist because of it.

[DianeVegan]

If you were to look through an asian market you would see soy used in products such as tofu, dried tofu, yuba (the skin that forms during the making of tofu - sometimes used to make "skin" of fake meats), tempeh, miso, fake meats and seafood, okara (the solids left behind during the soymilk/tofu process). Okara can be made into some traditional foods but is often used for animal fodder.

What you don't usually find is soy-based sausage, franks, ground meat, cheese, yogurt, margarine, etc. In other words, the soy is a traditional food itself, rather than something to be substituted for ingredients in traditional western foods.

I hope I explained that well enough.

[herbwormwood]

OK, so the chinese are using it to cook healthy traditional food instead of making junk food meat replacers out of it. But do they eat more or less soya than the average vegan? Does it make much difference in terms of soya intake if it is turned into "mock duck" or "veggie burger"?
Don't forget a lot of chinese asians are vegetarian by religion so will exclude meat anyway.
Are there any chinese vegans on this forum who can answer?

[DianeVegan]

Sorry, but I haven't noticed any chinese vegans on the forum. I think a big difference is that americans use much more soy protein isolate (this is an american invention) whereas asians don't break the soy down into component parts as much. Considering that we eat soy in different forms, I don't think it's possible to quantify our soy intake compared to the chinese. Good questions.

[herbwormwood]

Sorry, but I haven't noticed any chinese vegans on the forum. I think a big difference is that americans use much more soy protein isolate (this is an american invention) whereas asians don't break the soy down into component parts as much. Considering that we eat soy in different forms, I don't think it's possible to quantify our soy intake compared to the chinese. Good questions.

I see!
I hadn't really thought about that. But soy protein isolate would just be in processed food, which omnis might eat as well, would it not?
What sort of thing is it in? I am not sure I have seen it here.

[tabitha]

Here is a good article frm John robbins on the subject:
http://www.foodrevolution.org/what_about_soy.htm

My own belief is that soy is perfectly safe, seeing as how Asians have lots eaten it for many centuries with no apparent adverse effects. I try to eat it at least once a day.

I actually am not listening anymore to the hype about certain foods. I remember years ago when baked beans and potatoes were "junk" food. When I stopped taking HRT, they said that soya was good for you, then they said it made you aggressive! In the end I stopped caring!. So now Im a hormonal, aggressive vegan (puts hands over ears) lalalalalal not listening ANYMORE ps bloody newspapers.

[John]

No one knows "the truth bout soya." A few scientists have put forth a hypothesis that soy is harmful and they have carried out a few experiments to see if they can prove that it is.

Brazil is a major producer of soy beans but most soy beans are eaten by livestock.

[Unseen]

I've heard alot of different, contridictory information about soy. Some say it's fantastic for your health, others say it's not, some say it's terrible for you, some say it's harmless, some say it's only processed soy that's bad, some say males should avoid all soy...

Anyone have any good information on this? Someone has probably already posted about it, but I actually searched the forums for "soy" and it turned up nothing.

[Roxy]

I'm sure there's been threads about this, but right now the Search function doesn't seem to be working for me.

Try doing a search, or a bit of a manual search.

[Korn]

If you try 'Advanced Search', and select 'Search Titles only', you should find many threads with soy or soya in the title...

(It works here!)

[Sproutpout]

meh i dont eat soy, i havent tried seitan or tofu yet either

Strange, some omni's say its so hard to switch to vegetarian/vegan because the artifical meats dont taste as good. I havent even tried them and dont consider myself to be missing out, just another excuse for them i suppose

[gertvegan]

There's no risk to humans from soya

The hormones in cow's milk are potentially far more harmful than those in plants, says Justine Butler

Dr Justine Butler
Tuesday August 8, 2006
The Guardian

Read more here.

[Gorilla]

a friend of mine who used to be veggie but now eats meat was trying to warn me off soya products the other day because she read in a book that it was really unhealthy.

she has a book about alleviating mental health problems through nutrition, which has a section called "No soya for me, please!" it claims that soy protein isolate can cause mental health problems and is found in soya milk and tofu, as well as processed foods. i was aware it was in many processed foods these days, but as far as i know the only soya milk made with soy protein isolate is So Good which i don't drink anyway. i drink Alpro which i believe is made with whole soya beans. is it true that tofu can be made with soy protein isolate because i always thought it would have to be made with whole soya beans?

i wouldn't put much faith in this book she's reading anyway because the author says at the beginning that the diet plan in the book cannot be followed by vegetarians, she has apparently 'never met a healthy vegetarian' and thinks that veggies should not inflict their dietary choices on their children because it will make them ill.

i can't remember what the book was called but it's not next on my reading list that's for sure rant over now

[Mermaid07]

I drink chocolate soy milk everY morning and put it on my cereal when I eat it. Sometimes I eat tofu and other fake meat products. There is a vegan restaurant by my house that has soy chicken which I go to almost once a week. I noticed that the soy milk has isoflavones. Is that bad for you too. I love soy milk and hope that drinking it everyday is not bad. I have tried nut milks, but they have too much sugar and calories and not as much protien as soy milk.

I think that to a degree all food can be bad for you. You never know what came into contact with your food unless you grow it yourself. Who would have that E coli in SPINACH?? Sorry if this is off topic, but I feel that people can argue anything as bad for your health. I think if the good qualities overpower the bad ones then that food would be safe to eat.

[treehugga]

I've read soy protein is bad for your health mainly due to the manufacturing process. Most soy milk, tofu, tempe is fine and in fact good for your health if you're vegan due to the protein content.

[WolfRain]

I have been drinking Soya milk, and eating soya as a meat substitue since I became Vegetarian about 3 years ago, and it has only ever helped me. It might be good to point out here that I have E-O Schizophrenia, which I was diagnosed with about 4 years ago. Since I cut meat, and then milk out of my diet I have gone from strength to stength. I am not 100% better, but as I suspected dairy played a part in it. I cant say that Soya did though!

I would say that this theory is just a thoery, soya doesn't impinge mental health. Although, obviously everyone is different.

WolfRain

[satirecafe]

as other people were saying, if you check the sources of many anti-soy reports, you'll see that a lot of it is simply propaganda in support of the dairy industry. Silk is becoming bigger and bigger; they even have TV commercials now, so of course milk manufacturers are going to feel threatened! It's similar to the tobacco industry covering up the health effects of smoking in the 1960s.

[hazelbunny]

I've been vegan for ages, but I never really ate started eating soya till a few years ago. Since then I have developed hypothyroidism, which I have just discovered is a known effect of eating soy.

Sorry to be anti, but I will be avoiding it altogether from now on.

[Mahk]

Hazelbunny, there are two distinctly different issues here:

A) Does soy cause hypothyroidism?

B) Does soy negatively effect the absorption of medication for hypothyroidism?

We should not confuse the two. If a medical professional has advised you to stop eating soy, it could be for reason B), not A):

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/hyp...oidism/AN00454

I'm no medical expert, just a casual web surfer, but I wish you well. Also, look at the top of page 7 of this 25 page PDF document from "The American Thyroid Association":

http://www.thyroid.org/patients/brochures/Hypothyroidism%20_web_booklet.pdf

[hazelbunny]

Hi Mahk, thanks for the links!

Its hard to know which reports to believe, its encouraging to read, but there are others that say the opposite. I would like to source traditionally fermented soy, as I've heard that this process removes the
phyto-oestrogens etc and leaves in the good stuff.

[eve]

Today the whole front page of the Sunday Mail, from Brisbane, is about the dangers of eating soy. Banner headlines of 'Danger of Soy', then quotes from cancer council and other authorities stating that eating soy can lead to breast cancer and prostate cancer. And if people already had cancer, then they had better avoid soy as it will make things worse for the patients.

I already know what to expect from the people I see each morning. Recently I persuaded one guy, who eats yoghurt, and who has #2 Diabetes, to try soyoghurt. At the time I gave him a newspaper cutting of some research showing that those who ate the soyoghurt were able to give up their diabetes medication.

[Roxy]

Ohhhhhhhhh great Thanks for the warning, Eve. I can expect my father to be on the phone to me this week telling me all about it.

[eve]

Must admit I got my leg pulled at the swimming pool this morning, with comments about looking out for me at the butcher's shop! And a couple of people were tut-tutting about their neighbours who eat so much soy. I'd love to see an article, such as we read on the pcrm site about the dangers of cows milk in relation to breast and prostate cancer.

[Woodsie]

I've been vegan for ages, but I never really ate started eating soya till a few years ago. Since then I have developed hypothyroidism, which I have just discovered is a known effect of eating soy.

Sorry to be anti, but I will be avoiding it altogether from now on.

It's strange as I've had hypothyroidism for 10 years and neither my GP nor my endocrinologist has ever told me to avoid soy products or other 'goitrogens'. I have read reports that soy products can inhibit the absorption of thyroxine and 2 naturopaths have told me to avoid them (one even told me to avoid soy, all cruciferous vegetables, almonds, apples and God knows what else and frankly I refuse to as (a) I'm not prepared to cut all those healthy foods from my diet and (b) what the hell else am I supposed to eat?!!) I was at my GP the other day and mentioned that I'd suddenly put on quite a bit of weight lately and wondered could it be from eating more soy products and his response was 'we'll soon see by your blood tests'... I am getting my thyroid levels tested this week so watch this space!

[Manzana]

Sorry!!! really, I did not mean to start another thread here!!!

I had a friend that used to work in nutrition. He was a doctor and especialised in how our bodies absorb the nutrients in food. He once told me that soya milk (this does not include tofu, tempeh or other soya foods where the bean has been germinated) has something that stops your body from absorbing certain nutrients and therefore can have a negative effect on health...

also, soya contains phyto-oestrogens that can potentially (aparently, I am not a doctor so I dont know!) play a bit with your hormones and make you quite emotional if you are female... and lots of other things that people claim...
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/foodm...342291,00.html

I am sure that it is much better than pumping cow pus and growth hormones into your body but for the moment I tend to use it just for some cooking and little else... I love oat milk (tastes like porridge!)