Addiction to meat?

[Haniska]

*chuckle*

[Sarah_]

I get mad when people say that. I wish I didn't but apathy just irks me like no other. I always end up raising my voice and saying something horrible like "Wow, you're such a great person. 'I don't give a *poop about anything else but my stupid selfish self.' It actually disgusts me that you can look me in the face and say you don't care that things are being tortured and murdered because it tastes good. Yeah, good luck with that Hitler/Satan/*butthole ", or something to that effect. I daresay it tends to have the opposite effect from what I was originally intending.

*stars indicate substituted words.

[fiamma]

"Good luck with that."

[finalmatrix]

I have one friend says meat is like water to him. I did not say anything, because I know people that are addicted to meat cannot change overnight. It takes time for us vegan to influence them. I bring my vegan food to work place and let them know what I eat every day. I became vegan for only one and half month and my family seems to consume less meat. Eating meat is like any other vice, it's very hard to get rid off. Usually I 'll put a lot more vegan conversion to people who are more likely become vegan. Generally meat eaters are less intelligent compared to vegan and thats why they are not vegan in the first place. They don't realize eating meat is bad and unnecessary.

[littlemiss]

Ok, so this is a strange and potentially provocative one but my husband is veggie. He is close to vegan but eats quorn, chocolate and other sweet things. No milk, eggs, fish cheese etc. His been this way for over two years but every now and then he really craves meat. Normally I feed him yagga or quorn but its not helping this time. Of all things he wants kebab meat. He'd hoped the cravings would stop after a while because I use to love fish and now the smell amd idea is repulsive to me, same goes for milk. But he did love meat.
He eats the same diet as me generally so gets a good balance. I also give him multi-vits.
Any suggestions? He really doesn't want to eat meat but i'm worried I'll catch him chewing on the cat soon
Dont mind if its a non vegan suggestion for him or a dietary idea. (Tried guiness for iron, not helping.)
Thanx for any suggestions!! Save my cat!

[harpy]

Does he like falafels? Just asking because hereabouts you can get them in some of the kebab shops, dressed up in the same way as a kebab with salad, hot sauce, pitta, chips etc. So if it's that experience he's misising falafels might hit the spot.

[littlemiss]

Nope, the look he just gave me says no...
He does eat fallafel. Normally he craves a higher "quality" of meat so its just the meat he wants. Sorry, i know this is very repulsive to some people. This will confirm peoples suspicions that he is only veggie because I forced him to ha ha!
Thanx anyway.

[harpy]

Have you tried mock duck (out of a tin from Holland and Barrett)? It's not that nice on its own but it has a meat-like texture and could be dressed up to be similar to a kebab I would have thought.

There are various other fake meats that you could try if you haven't already, such as the Redwood "chicken" chunks (can't remember what they're called) and Fry's frozen stuff. They don't do anything for me but could be OK for your purposes. Again you would have to flavour them with something for them to taste nice.

Alternatively show him some gruesome documentaries about the meat industry and put him off the idea?

[gogs67]

I would have thought once he'd eaten the kebab 'meat' then that would put him off for life?
Sorry, of no help here, i never have/had any kind of meat cravings so i don't really know how he feels, i suppose it crossed my mind now and again years ago to eat fish but that was just a fleeting thought and i didn't act on it.But he does, that's why he's veggie and not vegan !
Maybe a protein shake every day, the increase in proteins may stave off his bodies 'evolutionary' want!

[cobweb]

sometimes i crave the chewy texture so i eat seitan or 'veggie ribs' - the packs you can get from veganstore (online), or buy vegi-deli ready to eat sausages.

[littlemiss]

Watching the documentaries is what made him veggie.
Thats why he DOESN'T give in and hasn't eaten meat in over two years.
I think I'l keep trying meat alternatives. Realeat do a good lamb style thing that he likes but there is a problem getting that right now.
I might try upping his protein, thats a good idea. We were going to have green smoothies next week slowly trying out raw so maybe the detox will help a little. I believe the body craves food when it needs something so i'm making him eat more nuts this week in the hope that will help.
Now his making quorn fillet burgers for a bedtime snack.
Thanx for the suggestions.

[Manzana]

how about lentils soaked in yeast extract stock... makes a mean sheperds pie (without the sheperd that is!)

PS. does he really feel like eating decaying flesh?????!!!?!?! WHY?!!!

[sunrisesunset]

i never crave meat, so i can't really relate.
HOWEVER go to your local health food store and buy some SEITAN and either stir fry it or grill it. My boyfriend and I just grilled some seitan and made a bbq sandwich. The texture is similar to meat. Give it a shot.

[Haniska]

When I crave meat I am not getting enough calories period.

[Sluggie]

Frys vegetarian strips or burgers (available from Holland and Barratt) have a very "meaty" texture that might hit the spot for him.

[Zero]

He very likely equates these meat driven foods to past memories, or perhaps they were his "comfort foods" in the past.

Has he looked at the videos and pictures of how that meat is produced in the factory farming environments? Generally that puts most most people off.

I can't imagine the cravings are anything more than an emotional response to the fact that meat was clearly a big part of his diet (as you say he "did love meat"). Nevertheless, these cravings for foods that made us feel good in the past (particularly as Children) can be hard to shake, especially if it was something your Grandmother made lovingly for you

You could try finding out specifically what dishes he loved when he eat meat and try to recreate them in a vegan way, that way he wont feel like he's missing out on those comfort foods. The Fry's strips that someone mentioned previously might create a Kebab meat effect (perhaps if you slice them thiner).

Beyond that, the only other suggestion I could make is to both take an active approach to making new dishes from other cultures you've never tried before, to keep things interesting and perhaps nail down some new favorites.

Good luck.

[hd883scooter]

Boca makes a burger crumble that does well in chili and sauces. At our house, it is preferred over the Morning Star brand. Also, Lightlife makes a mock chicken and beef strip that is tasty in stir-fry. The chicken does well in a cacciatori base of fresh garlic, portabellas, peppers and sweet onions. Personally, I don't have those cravings like your husband but do find a handful of whole walnuts in the vegetable stir fry an interesting combo. There is a slight bite or chewy texture which may be enough to satisfy him.

[Zero]

Boca makes a burger crumble that does well in chili and sauces. At our house, it is preferred over the Morning Star brand. Also, Lightlife makes a mock chicken and beef strip that is tasty in stir-fry.

We don't have those brands in the UK Scooter, however there are certainly a lot of similar products.

[Roxy]

Sorry, I can't be of much help either, as I've never craved meat.

I'd say to keep trying the faux meats. In particular, I find that veggie meats made from gluten have quite a chewy texture, similar to what I remember meat to be like.

[littlemiss]

Thank you everyone for the hugh replies!
Zero, I've read many of your messages over in raw and you always make sense. Yes, the videos are what made him veggie, I couldn't watch them myself but I hadn't thought of the emotional aspect. We moved away from his home town 3 weeks ago, his lived there all his life and though he had no real sentiment for it, maybe he just needs anchoring a little. He was asking for some vegan burgers I used to make so I will try that. I've been making some meals we enjoyed at home but prob need to make more effort. I love cooking and make food from all over, italian, morrocan, indian but we're going to try raw this summer so that will be exciting. (He would never admit that its the memory thing, he thinks I get too hippy when I tell him to talk to his sub-concious, I think I wont tell him that might be the reason)

He gave himself food poisoning eating quorn last night! I shouldn't have left him unsupervised.

Thanx SO MUCH for all your suggestions. Its def a weird one. I cant understand it personally but thanx for trying to help.

[Hemlock]

Linda McCartney sausages microwaved not grilled taste a lot like meat. About 2-3 mins in the microwave for three with soya mayonnaise or tomato relish.

[littlewinker]

"so you're going to carry on paying an industry that kills billions of animals, millions of humans and ruins the environment simply because you can't be arsed to find out that vegan food is actually nice as well?"

[ClawsyWP]

wot about adding more fats /oils
when i used to crave cheese i found eating more oily stuff helped. meat has a lot fats in it which typical vegan diet doesnt get i dont think.
try sticking some more oil in stuff maybe

[Stopthelies]

I've found myself craving the IDEA of meat, but I'm almost positive, as was posted earlier that meat was always involved in joyous times.
Ie, thanksgiving, Christmas, Birthdays, special outings.
I used to go to burger king and get a frozen coke slushie and a big kids burger.


Maybe some memory around kebabs is whats getting to him.

Why don't you try freezing firm tofu, defrosting it, and then marinating it in a vegan barbecue sauce? Stick it with large chunks of bell pepper and maybe other large veggies, and you have yourself a very tasty kebab. With frozen-deforsted tofu, it gets a wonderful amazing meaty texture that won't fall apart on the kebab, and marinating it in his favorite sauce will probably satisfy that craving even more. Pair it with some fresh (or canned if you must) lemonade with slices of strawberry floating, vegan coleslaw or potato salad and maybe a bright light tossed salad, and you have got the best summery picnic around. Just remember to evoke the MEMORIES around the food he's missing. Works like a charm for me.
:]

[Zero]

Why don't you try freezing firm tofu, defrosting it, and then marinating it in a vegan barbecue sauce? Stick it with large chunks of bell pepper and maybe other large veggies, and you have yourself a very tasty kebab.

I think littlemiss was refering to the "kebab meat" they put in Pita bread in the UK rather than kebab skewers, your recipe sounds like a good idea though too

[Haniska]

Oh, and I think salt plays a part also. Animal products are a big source of sodium.
Might also have to do with iodine cravings?

[Zero]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandsty...-vegetarianism

After becoming a vegetarian almost by accident b3ta co-founder Rob Manuel found eating a balanced diet more and more difficult. What other factors cause people to abandon vegetarianism?

In 1995 I decided to stop eating meat. I could never really quite explain why, I think it was something to do with watching a documentary where they cooked a cat and partly because I had a really crap job working for Wolves Poly and felt my life was slipping away. It definitely wasn't anything to do with any 'vegetarian month'.

I did a number of weird things. I experimented with stopping washing my hair (it got greasy), I stopped watching TV after catching Newsnight really stoned and deciding that Jeremy Paxman was fundamentally a comedian so there was little difference between the news and Beadle's About. I also stopped eating meat.

First it was just red meat. I said goodbye in a Birmingham Burger King; the sandwich was greasy and unpleasant and I thought 'good riddance'.

I found eating only white meat was hard. People didn't know what to cook for me - they'd tell me I was just being awkward. They were right, so there was only one thing for it, cutting out all meat altogether.

So I simply stopped putting it in my mouth. It was that simple. I didn't feel any different and what I cooked didn't really change as I was a complete povvo and didn't bother buying much meat anyway.

To be honest, I was the world's worst vegetarian. You see - I didn't really like vegetables very much. I'd spent most of my childhood terrified of them - horrid bland mushy things. It's only as an adult I realise that part of the problem is my mother's cooking - she hates using salt and has a tendency to over boil things. Thanks, Mum.

So there we are. A vegetarian who hates vegetables and mostly lives on pasta and cheese. Healthy.

Fast-forward nearly 15 years and I'm a father of two and increasingly aware of my diet. My wife stopped her vegetarian ways when pregnancy brought cravings for meat.

With her help (this makes her sound like my sponsor in Fussy Eaters Anonymous) I'd managed to eat more vegetables - by the time our second child was in the womb she was having spinach cravings and I didn't complain once about having to eat boiled green leaves every day. For six months. So I was doing better with a wider diet but still no drinking from the meaty cup.

My four-year-old son has the restricted palate that children often have. He mostly refuses to eat anything that isn't sausages or fruit, so dining out was becoming difficult. There was the small circle of cheesy carbs I'd eat, and the intersection with the circle of sausages that my son wants to eat was - well, if you understand your Venn diagrams you'll know there wasn't much in the middle.

It was a trip to Hastings that finally did it. At a fish 'n' chip shop pretty much the only thing on the menu I could eat was a microwaved cheese pasty. I simply couldn't face it and ordered fish.

Can't say I particularly enjoyed it. I found the portion of thick white flesh alarmingly large and I didn't want to think about the skin at all. However it did leave me feeling satisfied in a way that I haven't felt in a long time. Every cell in my body screaming "protein - that's what you need."

My wife was very impressed with me. She asked me what I wanted to try next and the thing that had been filling my thoughts since deciding to allow meat back into my life was pepperoni pizza. Those little toasted cups of fat that make for a party in the mouth everyone can afford. Although to ponce it up a bit we ate it in Hampstead. Lardy dah.

Bacon. Let's talk about bacon. There's no meat more glorious than bacon. You can add it to pasta instead of cheese. You can stick it in a sandwich, er ... instead of cheese. Or even rub it on to attract men (a top tip there ladies).

On telling my friends I was eating meat, one looked proud and said, "Welcome back to Man Club." Although my new macho credentials were severely dented by the admission that largely I'd been eating chicken - "Chicken? Why, us men class chicken as a vegetable."

I still haven't tried real meat. I can do a spag bog or even a burger but no steaks. I'm still a bit frightened of them. All too fleshy.

Many people must have had a similar experience. If you're a lapsed vegetarian (or a resurgent meat eater), what was it that made you fall off the vegetarian wagon?

So he basically gave up on being vegetarian because he doesn't know how to cook anything but pasta and cheese and blames it on his mum for her crap cooking!?

Also "I stopped washing my hair and stopped watching TV" whats that got to do with it?

I'm not surprised he turned his back on it, his food choices were boring as hell. Going vegan expanded my food choices (as I'm sure it did for many others), I started learning to make all different types of Chinese, Japanese, Greek, Lebanese etc foods I had never eaten before.

It's funny this guy and myself gave up meat for some of the same reasons in the beginning, I didn't like the taste anymore, found it greasy and disgusting, gave up red meat first for health reasons, but the thing is; the failing is his, it wasn't the diet it was simply his failure to find food choices anymore interesting than cheese and starch, as always with these articles it fails show anything more than a myopic point of view.

I can't imagine his diet is going to be any healthier by including meat again, the guy probably has an eating disorder that stems from his childhood, perhaps he will be on one of these "freaky eater" TV shows

I found this whole thing quite humorous overall.

[harpy]

Yes I think it would be charitable to chalk this one up as "satire" wouldn't it? It's annoying the way it implies you can only get protein from "flesh" though. Eating cr@p before that wouldn't have been a problem at all - oh no.

[Ms_Derious]

Having been quite fond of B3ta in the past, I think this is meant in part to be satire. I hope, at any rate.

I do think though, perhaps some of this comes from being vegetarian, and therefore going for the all encompassing 'just eat lots of cheese' option. I know a lot of veggies (myself until became vegan) who do this, and it actually restricts your options because you only see the huge, flashing neon sign that says 'vegetarian option'. I didn't really eat Tofu as a veggie, and had never tried seitan or tempeh. I also never really got out the mindset of 'Unmeat and two veg' often swapping this for 'Unmeat and Chips'.

I think the protein comment is probably a sister to the comment I regularly hear from people who went through a fashion inspired vegetarian period, who didn't really do it out of compassion, and then cobbled together some c*ap about becoming anaemic and how their doctors told them they needed to eat meat. Strange, I've been vegetarian 16 years and vegan about a year and no doctor has ever told me to eat meat. I think when people lapse out of being vegetarian or vegan, they often need to justify it so as not to lose face in front of the other people who childed them for their veggie ways.

I also have to say, if eating some fish and chips 'impresses' your life partner, they have pretty low expectations of you

[DavidT]

Let's face it, although the Vegan Society does its best and I'm sure most of us lot do our bit as best we can, veganism is always going to face an uphill battle because people seem, on the face of it (and this article confirms it) a bit stupid. It's almost like people have to have thoughts thought for them, they're incapable of making decisions and thinking through to conclusions on their own.

In order to mature, you must be prepared to educate yourself. It's not easy. It takes time and often money. It takes brain cells and determination.

And then...along comes this article and I can see lapsed veggies nodding. What hope do we stand against such nonsense?

Furthermore, there is far less money to be made from veganism, so it doesn't even have the dubious advantage of spin. Imagine if veganism was a real earner for big boys - it would be totally mainstream by now.

[BlackCats]

Is that satire? I can't even tell if it is supposed to be or not.

I worked with this guy and he and his wife were vegetarian and he said one night he just couldn't face eating horrible food anymore () so they just both decided to go back to eating meat.

Let's face it, although the Vegan Society does its best and I'm sure most of us lot do our bit as best we can, veganism is always going to face an uphill battle because people seem, on the face of it (and this article confirms it) a bit stupid. It's almost like people have to have thoughts thought for them, they're incapable of making decisions and thinking through to conclusions on their own.
In order to mature, you must be prepared to educate yourself. It's not easy. It takes time and often money. It takes brain cells and determination.

I think that does sound very patronising about people being stupid but I agree with you. I was one of these people until I was 30 years old. I don't know how I never realised that eating dairy was just as cruel as eating meat. I honestly don't know what I thought. I make a point of making little comments to vegetarians and omnivores to maybe try and plant a seed in their heads to question their actions a bit more. I don't mind coming across as militant or strange. I really wish a vegan had done that to me while I was vegetarian.

(Can I just say as well that I don't ever miss meat and I would never go back to eating it!)

[Zero]

I wouldn't call it satire exactly, it's just written with a humorous slant.

I also have to say, if eating some fish and chips 'impresses' your life partner, they have pretty low expectations of you

Indeed!

[DavidT]

I think that does sound very patronising about people being stupid but I agree with you. I was one of these people until I was 30 years old. I don't know how I never realised that eating dairy was just as cruel as eating meat. I honestly don't know what I thought. I make a point of making little comments to vegetarians and omnivores to maybe try and plant a seed in their heads to question their actions a bit more. I don't mind coming across as militant or strange. I really wish a vegan had done that to me while I was vegetarian.

(Can I just say as well that I don't ever miss meat and I would never go back to eating it!)

OK, yeah, it's patronising. I won't apologise, just agree.

I was one of those. I didn't know any better. It took time and it took self-education to get to this stage and I'm still learning and crikey, the more I learn, the less I know. It took some kind of passion for me to develop - I could not have gone vegan solely based upon media fluff.

And this type of article is hardly educational is it? Well, not for omnivores anyway, who seem in desperate need of education.

[Sunkist]

OK, yeah, it's patronising. I won't apologise, just agree.
And this type of article is hardly educational is it? Well, not for omnivores anyway, who seem in desperate need of education.

This article is so stupid! yes omnivores are in desperate need of education!!! I had a healthy vegan pregnancy and I was eating mostly raw vegan! - Why would a woman want to go back to eating meat during pregnancy when vegans have higher iron levels

[Zero]

vegans have higher iron levels

That's quite an assumption given that there definitely vegans who eat bad diets.

Anyone's diet should be well planned whether it be vegan, vegetarian or omni.

The American Dietetic Association puts it very well (but carefully):

Abstract
It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes. A vegetarian diet is defined as one that does not include meat (including fowl) or seafood, or products containing those foods. This article reviews the current data related to key nutrients for vegetarians including protein, n-3 fatty acids, iron, zinc, iodine, calcium, and vitamins D and B-12. A vegetarian diet can meet current recommendations for all of these nutrients. In some cases, supplements or fortified foods can provide useful amounts of important nutrients. An evidence-based review showed that vegetarian diets can be nutritionally adequate in pregnancy and result in positive maternal and infant health outcomes. The results of an evidence-based review showed that a vegetarian diet is associated with a lower risk of death from ischemic heart disease. Vegetarians also appear to have lower low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels, lower blood pressure, and lower rates of hypertension and type 2 diabetes than nonvegetarians. Furthermore, vegetarians tend to have a lower body mass index and lower overall cancer rates. Features of a vegetarian diet that may reduce risk of chronic disease include lower intakes of saturated fat and cholesterol and higher intakes of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, nuts, soy products, fiber, and phytochemicals. The variability of dietary practices among vegetarians makes individual assessment of dietary adequacy essential. In addition to assessing dietary adequacy, food and nutrition professionals can also play key roles in educating vegetarians about sources of specific nutrients, food purchase and preparation, and dietary modifications to meet their needs.

http://www.eatright.org/ada/files/Ve...itionFINAL.pdf

[Sunkist]

That's quite an assumption given that there definitely vegans who eat bad diets.

Anyone's diet should be well planned whether it be vegan, vegetarian or omni.

I was referring to my diet which was a healthy vegan diet and I've also seen a study comparing omnivore - vegan iron levels and eating a healthy vegan diet was better.

It really annoys me that some women believe that media nonsense and can't think for themselves or do the research - We have got a long way to go in educating people! - but these people were never comitted veg/vegans in the first place

[Zero]

I was referring to my diet which was a healthy vegan diet and I've also seen a study comparing omnivore - vegan iron levels and eating a healthy vegan diet was better.

Fair enough, it just didn't read that way.

---

I agree that people should educate themselves, but when there is so much conflicting information around it's no surprise that people get lost in it all. In the end I think a lot of people just end up going with whatever the general consensus is because it is more convenient and popular and therefore probably appears to be correct to them.

Iron

The iron in plant foods is nonheme iron, which is sensitive to both inhibitors and enhancers of iron absorption. Inhibitors of iron absorption include phytates, calcium, and the polyphenolics in tea, coffee, herb teas, and cocoa. Fiber only slightly inhibits iron absorption. Some food preparation techniques such as soaking and sprouting beans, grains, and seeds, and the leavening of bread, can diminish phytate levels and thereby enhance iron absorption. Other fermentation processes, such as those used to make miso and tempeh, may also improve iron bioavailability. Vitamin C and other organic acids found in fruits and vegetables can substantially enhance iron absorption and reduce the inhibitory effects of phytate and thereby improve iron status. Because of lower bioavailability of iron from a vegetarian diet, the recommended iron intakes for vegetarians are 1.8 times those of nonvegetarians.
Whereas many studies of iron absorption have been short term, there is evidence that adaptation to low intakes takes place over the long term, and involves both increased absorption and decreased losses. Incidence of iron-deficiency anemia among vegetarians is similar to that of nonvegetarians. Although vegetarian adults have lower iron stores than nonvegetarians, their serum ferritin levels are usually ithin
the normal range.

http://www.eatright.org/ada/files/Ve...itionFINAL.pdf

[BlackCats]

I wouldn't call it satire exactly, it's just written with a humorous slant.

Yep, it was hilarious. Haha.

I was one of those. I didn't know any better. It took time and it took self-education to get to this stage and I'm still learning and crikey, the more I learn, the less I know. It took some kind of passion for me to develop - I could not have gone vegan solely based upon media fluff.
And this type of article is hardly educational is it? Well, not for omnivores anyway, who seem in desperate need of education.

To be honest I think there is so much misinformation out there about healthy food that I am not surprised so many people don't know much about nutrition.

[emzy1985]

"Welcome back to Man Club!"

Can we just get a very large "amen" for all the good looking, masculine men on this forum and in our vegan lives? There is nothing more masculine and "man club" than being compassionate.

[Ms_Derious]

No, no, no.... Silly Emzy,

A man isn't a man without a belly full of death, I'm not sure what to make of all these men *pretending* to be vegan to get into our vegan pants, but I know they all run off and eat burgers as soon as our back is turned. I mean, think about it... vegan and viagra, similar aye?

[Jiffy]

I've never quite understood what's 'manly' about being incapable of independent thought or the inability to break a revolting habit.

Oh well, I'm off to play with my Sindy dolls

Wasn't there a book once entitled 'Real men Don't eat quiche' ?

[Katie287]

I've been vegan for about a year and a half now and everything has gone pretty well but all of a sudden lately I've really been craving meat and it's so frustrating.

Does anyone struggle or has done so in the past? I can't go back to being an omni but a lifetime without steak is seeming really hard right now.

[Korn]

Some vegans, especially new vegans may have food cravings. People who move to a new country also miss food they used to eat at home, but that doesn't mean that they need whatever they are missing.

If you search for threads with 'cravings' in the thread title, you'll see that the topic has been discussed a few times before. Good luck!

[AnneCE]

Sometimes I get a notion for something non-vegan, but I make myself picture what goes into that product, and I know no matter how delicious it is, it isn't worth it. And treat yourself to something special and vegan.

[linera141]

Sometimes I get a notion for something non-vegan, but I make myself picture what goes into that product, and I know no matter how delicious it is, it isn't worth it.

I feel the same way here, but it can be difficult to overcome a physical craving using only mental techniques. It sometimes helps in this situation to look for the most similar vegan item available, perhaps a fake meat of some kind.

[karmafunk]

When I get strong cravings I make myself a lovely vegan meal. Or sometimes I watch a video on youtube showing the shameful cruelty. That works best.

[Korn]

Hi,
check out this link:
http://www.veganforum.com/forums/con...food-additions

[Invictus]

"I've heard people use the line "I love meat too much to give it up" or "I love cheese too much..." Usually, I hear that before we get into any extended discussions about animal cruelty."

When someone said that to me I should've said "but you gave up heroin" but I didn't. I pretty much won the argument anyway.

[Clueless Git]

Quite a common one, that

I like to set people up for 'bait, switch and trap' when I can. Usualy that one goes something like this ..

Twonk: "I love meat too much"

Me: "Ok ... that justifies whatever harm you cause by eating meat?"

Twonk: "It's a good enough reason for me" (or similar)

Me: "OK, help me out with these ... what would you say to:

1. someone who makes money out selling drugs and won't give up his dealing because he loves the money too much ..

2. a kiddy fiddler who wont stop fiddling with kiddies cos he loves fiddling with kiddies too much ..

3, someone who wont give up stomping on kittens because he loves stomping kittens too much ... ?"

And so on, and forth ...

From there I just play 'devils advocate' on behalf of whatever various arseholisms (new word!) I thought up and drive him or her bananas with the blatant stupidity of their own prefered line of defence.

[Andy_T]

I normally say "Y'know, that is exactly what I thought myself ... Until I tried to live without meat for a month and found after that that I no longer craved for it ... 20 years ago" because that is what happened to me.

After all, there are unfortunately only very few of us who are so lucky that they never ate meat in their lives. I guess most of us here are ex-meat-eaters who can sympathize. The only "secret knowledge" that we have and they do not, is how easy it actually is to live without meat once you have tried it. At least that is how I think...

Ps: what bugs me much more, is that I continued to "love my cheese too much" for 20 years until I read "eating animals" a year ago and started to really think about that
... I really wish I had known any vegans who would have told me more about that and got me to think properly about dairy, so I guess I can be a bit of a p.I.t.a about that one, now...

Best regards, Andy