raising animals for eggs, milk or fur

[WebrunnerOne]

Vegans do not believe that animals are ours to exploit. An animal's body belongs to him or herself.

Also, I urge you to research how animals raised for milk, meat, eggs, fur,
et cetera, live. They are subjected to torture throughout their lives. Often, death is a relief from that torture.

I am curious to know why you would think that raising animals for eggs, milk or fur - would be a torture?

the Eggs arent alive and the chickens that lay them are feed and cared for

I would suspect that a Cow would appreciate being Milked, and even the calves stay with their mother for a period of time before they even start milking them

Sheep acctually behave as though they are relieved to have been sheared -- though the shearing is scarey for them at first

- as for Skins -- I just think that is sick but worst is for sport (to stuff)
I am so Glad there are laws now -- I just wish they were stricter

As for meat -- the starter of this thread didnt mention anything about animals raised for meat - so I would suspect that he/she wasnt questioning that.

[DianeVegan]

Webrunner, I see that you just joined this forum today. I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not a troll and therefore just unaware of what veganism and animal cruelty is. Before asking these questions and giving arguements that sound a bit unvegan, perhaps you should visit PETA's website and view some of their videos/literature. Otherwise, view some of the threads here and you will also find the answers to your questions. I am always willing to welcome a new vegan but most transitioning vegans search the forum for answers before giving arguements for reasons that animal husbandry is okay. I am not trying to be harsh but rather give you an idea of how this forum works.

(P.S. - I do really think you are a troll. I mean, you think raising an animal for fur is not torture? Perhaps you would think being killed and skinned is not a torture?)

[WebrunnerOne]

I tried to copy & paste this to my last post but it wont let me, sorry about this - I really didnt want to double post, how come the ctrl C wont copy either? it will only let me move text with in this box, I could have sworn that it let me cut and paste earlier

As John said, undercoverbrother, this is a forum for vegans or for people who want to become vegan. You agreed to that when you joined. If you have no interest, why are you bothering to debate?

It is interesting that you state this -- it isnt the impression that I got when I joined - In fact the only deturent to post here on this subforum - was if you had no interest in being Vagan at all.

the reason these debates come up like this is the pure pressure one gets when they are trying to go Vagan. When I became Vagan when I got pregnant my doctor was totally concerned -- I told him that I wanted a vegitarian Family and he thought I was nuts hehehe
It was a fight of pulling teeth - just to convence them and then it was everybody else saying -- how come ya dont eat meat? what is your problem?, animals are meant for food (well you know the questions, I mean) -- my bigest problem - was I didnt have an answer to give them for many of the arguements except - I want my family Vagan, it is my belief.
After I found out it wasnt going to be so easy due to my Allergies - I still wanted my Family to be Vagan, even if for some reason, I couldnt be but
Then there was clash of the Titans
I was hated by Vagans because I had Medical troubles due to the atempted conversion and hated by meat eaters because I wanted my family to stay Vagan.

Seems rediculous to me that either side has such a problem, it isnt my fault that I was raised the way that I was raised, but what is wrong with me raising my Family as Vagan??

for years Vagans refused my plea for help because I was not personally Vagan yet, this forced me into making my son eat meat -- because doctors said he needed too, because I had no other ideas how to feed him - that by the way he didnt like :</

Now I ask you, If a mother or father came here - trying to learn how to feed thier want to be Vagan family -- you would turn them away? Why just cause the parent(s) is/are not Vagan?

Im not sure, what exactly do you mean by Troll?
I would like to be vagan and believe me - Im working on it.

[Artichoke47]

I haven't read all of the posts, because these types of arguments with meat eaters are boring to me, but I think you need to realize that you're an animal, UCB. A human animal, yes, but an animal nonetheless.

[Artichoke47]

Now I ask you, If a mother or father came here - trying to learn how to feed thier want to be Vagan family -- you would turn them away?

First, it's vegan and not capped. That will get you started as far as finding labels and stuff; and I appreciate that you're trying.

Second, the difference is the mother and/or father are trying to LEARN information, not argue. They are looking for a chocolate cake recipe without secretions, not arguing with vegans the merits of eating or not eating a hen's egg. So yes, those people are welcome here, and in fact, I have seen such posts and the parents get a thumbs-up from most of us vegans here, telling them how sweet they are for cooking for their loved one.

[Korn]

I am curious to know why you would think that raising animals for eggs, milk or fur - would be a torture?

Hi, you may want to read abook about veganism or read the hundreds of posts we have about this already. Please use our search function! (BTW, the internet is full of articles and info about the topics you are intersted in... and you can of course read as much as you want here as well.)

the Eggs arent alive and the chickens that lay them are feed and cared for

Please see our thread about vegan and eggs...

I would suspect that a Cow would appreciate being Milked, and even the calves stay with their mother for a period of time before they even start milking them

Sheep acctually behave as though they are relieved to have been sheared -- though the shearing is scarey for them at first

The Vegan Forum is a little different than other forums about ethics, food & lifestyles.... this is a place for people who already have decided that they want to avoid using animal products as much as possible. If you don't agree in this, then you definitely haven't decided to go vegan... and: even our Not A Vegan Yet-areas is reserved for people who have decided to go vegan or who seriously consider it. But there are many other sites with basic info about veganism, and I can assure you that it's not difficult to find articles covering the topics you are intersested in.

And again - you can read as much as you want. We just don't want every thread to be converted into a discussion between vegans and non-vegans - some of us have had enough of this in our daily lives... but reading can be very interesting - for those who are interested.

I my bigest problem - was I didnt have an answer to give them for many of the arguements except - I want my family Vagan, it is my belief.

Nobody expects anyone to lead a vegan lifestyle if they don't have vegan viewpoints...

I was hated by Vagans because I had Medical troubles due to the atempted conversion and hated by meat eaters because I wanted my family to stay Vagan.

I've never heard of any vegans hating anyone because of their medical trouble. Maybe you have been misunderstanding something?

for years Vagans refused my plea for help because I was not personally Vagan yet, this forced me into making my son eat meat -- because doctors said he needed too, because I had no other ideas how to feed him - that by the way he didnt like :</

Bookstores, internet (even this site) is full of info on nutrition - nobody is holding this info back for anyone....

Now I ask you, If a mother or father came here - trying to learn how to feed thier want to be Vagan family -- you would turn them away? Why just cause the parent(s) is/are not Vagan?

Again - we don't turn anyone away from reading our posts. But this is a site for people who want to discuss and communicate from a vegan perspective, without interruptions from people who disagree with us. Please respect that vegans need such a forum. We still have enough info on food, nutrition, health etc. to keep newbies busy for months!

I've read some of your posts, and have a question for you... if you are OK with taking eggs away from birds, OK with using fur, and have no problem with animals being kept in captivity for wool or milk production, why do you want to live a vegan lifestyle?

[Korn]

Sheep acctually behave as though they are relieved to have been sheared -- though the shearing is scarey for them at first

"Shearers are usually paid by volume, not by the hour, which encourages fast work without regard for the welfare of the sheep. Says one eyewitness: “[T]he shearing shed must be one of the worst places in the world for cruelty to animals … I have seen shearers punch sheep with their shears or their fists until the sheep’s nose bled. I have seen sheep with half their faces shorn off …”

Read more here.