Things meat eaters say and do

[KcCrash]

[QUOTE=CrunchyMomma;565880]


I've been asked all of the cliche ones (I swear, I think there is some sort of brochure they pass around with what they think are clever questions):

-If there was a child and a hen in a burning house, which would you rescue first?

If first means, I could rescue them both fine, then would it matter so much?It depends which one was in more danger too.

-Would you rather people or animals be homeless?people. we are in a world where people have more care and more chances. animals have no chance a lot of the time (assuming here the question means dogs/cats/rodents/domesticated animals and homes means nice homes with humans who care.

-Don't you kill bees and spiders if they get in your house?no.I am vegan, I kill nothing purposely.

-Aren't you worried about plants having feelings too?
not worried no. maybe they do, we dont know for 100% sure. But we know 100% sure animals have feelings. I would rather watch a plant die than watch a cow/pig/sheep screaming in fear and agony.

-Do you care more about animals than humans?yes.but I am a weirdo. most vegans care about both. I care about those most in need, everyone else can care about humans.

-Aren't you worried about becoming anemic or having a protein deficiency?
No. It is extremely difficult to be deficient in protein unless you have anorexia, are severaly under-nutritionised or have some specialist condition. I dont fall into those categories. as for anemia, there is no significant difference 'tweem meat eaters who have it and vegans/vegetarians that have it.

[DavidT]

and would all animals not die anyway if they weren't eaten?

That is such an annoying question. I usually run out of patience when that one arrives because it is so naive.

[Prawnil]

... everyone else can care about humans.

This makes me wish, since we've now got a Thanks! button, that there was an anti!-Thanks button.

[Sarabi]

A friend from university used to say she was vegetarian, but she sometimes ate sausages and anything else not immediately recognisable as part of an animal. She still avoids most meat most of the time, but has given up saying she's vegetarian.

On the other hand she did start reducing her meat consumption several years before I did, so perhaps she has eaten less animal matter than I have over a lifetime. Hmmm.

Sounds like this girl I met who lives in a vegetarian co-op and said she can't turn down an offering of meat, and since she never calls herself vegetarian or anything, she never informs her hosts or anyone that she prefers not to eat meat. So self-defeating. If I had a stronger personality, I would've told her, "You need to just be strong and say, 'Hey! I'm vegetarian,' before you even get started. When I tell people I'm vegan, they usually respect that and will even inform me if I accidentally eat something non-vegan." (Saying "I'm vegan" makes it so, by making other people respect my decision-making process. Saying, "I try to be vegan, if offerings are available," would be like saying, "I'll put out some effort, but don't worry if you fail to respect my preferred decisions.") But unfortunately, I was just like, "Well... it's, uh, easier if you have a principle." WTF was I thinking?

Anyway... I admire people who are strong enough to just flat-out tell me how to improve my life, unabashed. Unless they badger me without being asked. The only people who are allowed to badger me are people I've specifically chosen as instructors or who really know what they're talking about! But somehow, I never know how to do that to people. I rarely feel like I know what I'm talking about, but more like I'm going to turn someone away from veganism by proselytizing.

[Shrapnel]

Not so much a question, but comment. I recently was at a fur protest up at Utah's Park City, and among the odd responses (including some people wanting to take pictures), one person walking by said, "Good for you. Let's put an end to abortion." I... guess he didn't read the signs all the way O_o Unless he took the "Don't kill in the name of fashion" slogan to mean we were putting an end to the fetus skin coats that are all the rage in The Hollywood.

[Quantum Mechanic]

^ I'd have said "Do you know anything, I mean anything, about Biology?"

Well, I didn't want to be too forward about it, considering that she didn't quite finish high school and while I did use snarky remarks and sarcasm a lot in my youth to cope with things, I prefer not to guide my interactions with this tone, even when it's really tempting. For instance, I found out that my aunt seems to think there's something to homeopathy, and while it didn't really come up, if I were to discuss the topic with her, I wouldn't use snarky remarks, as I'm sure that those would garner more memory (and unpleasant taste) than any of the rational things I would say.

Sometimes the old adage of "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" seems appropriate, such as when my other sister was saying some things about how she thought global warming was a big scam, citing the cool weather (of course she's watched videos, documentaries, that sort of thing as well as her observation of weather, but as we were about to go to a birthday dinner, I didn't want to make an awkward situation of it, though if I had said anything probably would've just made a simple statement about how climate and weather differ).

EDIT: Also, with snarky remarks and such, even when they've only been thought up after a thorough consideration of the evidence, if that's what is first brought to light or remembered most, then it can seem like the snarky attitude came first, formed the conclusions, and then looked for evidence to support the attitude, even if it is in fact the other person discussing with who may have done this, with or without a snarky attitude. Sarcasm and complete incredulity at people's line of thinking may be at times funny when expressed in a certain way, but I don't think it is appropriate for discussion - even if you lack respect for the intellect or morals or whatever of the person you're engaging with, you never know who may be in the room listening, or who they might talk to about that "mean person who said I didn't understand anything".

[shellymi2nv]

My husband and I were asked if vegans meant we were from Las Vegas.

I get that one ALL the time... Maybe it's because I actually LIVE here in Las Vegas? LOL

However, along those lines, I did get asked once what would happen if I did happen to move away from Vegas. Would I no longer be vegan??? By that reasoning then, all 1+ million people living in Las Vegas should be vegans!

[shellymi2nv]

I just got this question:

"Do you drink water? Because it's got all sorts of dead tiny animal parts floating in it, dontcha know?"

[Mahk]

That's actually true. All bodies of water: lakes, streams, resevoirs, etc are all teaming with microscopic life. That's the nature of our planet. Zooplankton are the more animal like ones vs. more plant like ones but diatoms (more plant like) are the coolest looking ones. They look like aliens and spacecraft!

[terem]

I was offered donuts today at work and I declined saying that there is probably dairy in them.
One of the guys I work with said "Why not? Donuts aren't alive!"

And then another guy came over after hearing my explanation for why I don't drink milk and the terrors that cows go through for us to have it, and he said, "You know what happens if they don't kill them? They die of old age. It's more painful for them to die of old age, so it's more humane to kill them."

I told him that killing them isn't humane either and he just stared at me. Does anyone know if it actually is painful for cows to die of old age? I feel stupid for asking that, but I'm just curious as he was SO serious when he said it.

[Mahk]

I was offered donuts today at work and I declined saying that there is probably dairy in them. One of the guys I work with said "Why not? Donuts aren't alive!"

LOL!

There's no such thing as "dying of old age" really. You either die of cardiac arrest, brain death, you stop breathing, etc. Some are painful, some aren't. But to be sure you never ever stub your toe again, staple your finger, accidentally bump your head, or get a paper cut do you think euthanasia makes more sense?

It's more painful for them to die of old age, so it's more humane to kill them."

Of course this would apply to him also so maybe you should kill him now. It's more humane after all. As he lays there dying on the floor you could say, "You're welcome. I didn't want you to die from old age after all."

[vegankitty]

Of course this would apply to him also so maybe you should kill him now. It's more humane after all. As he lays there dying on the floor you could say, "You're welcome. I didn't want you to die from old age after all."

This made me laugh.

[terem]

Of course this would apply to him also so maybe you should kill him now. It's more humane after all. As he lays there dying on the floor you could say, "You're welcome. I didn't want you to die from old age after all."

Hah I'll remember that one

While all that was happening I was thinking of your signature Mahk! Haha
He didn't say anything after I made the point that killing them wasn't humane either.

[Tigerlily]

Person: Have you ever used sheepskin condoms? [in reference to me mentioning my latex allergy]
Me: Um, no! Haha, they aren't vegan.
Person: What?! You don't eat them, though?
Me: Yeah, but still. It's not vegan and it's gross.

[asleep ona sunbeam]

Person: Have you ever used sheepskin condoms? [in reference to me mentioning my latex allergy]
Me: Um, no! Haha, they aren't vegan.
Person: What?! You don't eat them, though?
Me: Yeah, but still. It's not vegan and it's gross.

it almost sounds like that person is talking from personal experience...*shudders*

[CrunchyMomma]

Person: Have you ever used sheepskin condoms? [in reference to me mentioning my latex allergy]
Me: Um, no! Haha, they aren't vegan.
Person: What?! You don't eat them, though?
Me: Yeah, but still. It's not vegan and it's gross.

Not completely a vegan-related topic, but that person saying "you don't eat them" reminded me of an experience I had at my local yarn shop. I was looking for a good, non-wool sock yarn one day to knit my mother a pair of socks. The lady pointed out a new brand they had just gotten in called TOFUtsies, which is a wool/soysilk/cotton blend (I reckon she missed the "non-wool" part of my request). Then she said, "the really neat part is that there is something in it called 'chitin', which is crushed up crab and shrimp shells."

I am *highly* allergic to shellfish to begin with, so I explained to her that I couldn't use that. She gave me a half-confused, half-disgusted look and said, "well you're not going to be eating it!"

[Tigerlily]

Some people just don't get it.

[helen105281]

We have just been to Pizza hut for dinner and had an amusing/slightly annoying experience with the waiter. When we aksed for no cheese he asked why, so we explained and he spent the rest of the time we were there asking lots of questions (the usual ones so I won't list them) and making really lame jokes about fox hunting and abatoirs.

[Enchantress]

Ugh, honestly I'd report him to the manager for that. Surely it's his job to bring you the food you've ordered, no questions asked and definitely no piss-taking.

[helen105281]

Thanks, didn't think of it at the time as were slightly amused by him but as I drove home we were getting madder and madder.

[miss-fit]

The kids at school ask me what a vegan is, So I paitenly explane it to them while they fix me with a blank stare, Then when I've finished my speach they ask "do you eat chicken?"
Tipical lol

[Declan]

I was in an Italian restaurant last week with my family, and when we were ordering I explained in precise detail and in Italian, the waiter's own language, that I was a vegan and what that meant. At the end of my three-and-a-half minute talk about it, his response: Lei puó mangiare pesce? - NO, NO I DON'T EAT FISH!!! Why don't people get that???

[shellymi2nv]

NO, NO I DON'T EAT FISH!!! Why don't people get that???

The only thing I can come up with (with only 1 cup of coffee in me) is that to most people, animals have legs and a fish doesn't.

[harpy]

Lei puó mangiare pesce??

What's the Italian for "I can but I don't"? Or would that just complicate matters?

[terem]

What's the Italian for "I can but I don't"? Or would that just complicate matters?

Eh, my sister always says that I CAN'T eat chicken, eggs, etc. and I always remind her that I can but I CHOOSE not to. There's a difference. I hate to think of veganism as a set of rules. I'm making an ethical choice not to eat animals and their byproducts.

[Mahk]

When my friend corrects me with that same,"No Mahk, you choose not to eat animals" I always say, "You're right. Just like I choose not to eat plutonium or mud."

[Loss]

What's the Italian for "I can but I don't"? Or would that just complicate matters?

"Posso ma non voglio", I'd say
Actually I'm guilty of that. I always say that I can't eat something, not that I don't want to. I don't know why. It's just easier I guess. Or maybe it's because "I don't want to" sounds a bit childish to me

[CrunchyMomma]

Eh, my sister always says that I CAN'T eat chicken, eggs, etc. and I always remind her that I can but I CHOOSE not to. There's a difference. I hate to think of veganism as a set of rules. I'm making an ethical choice not to eat animals and their byproducts.

See, I get just the opposite response. People will say stuff like, "gee, it's not like you're allergic, or anything. What's your problem?" It's really frustrating feeling like you are pigeonholed into defending your choices. It's not a choice that is hurting me, so I have no clue why people feel so resentful about it.

For the most part, everyone around me has been very supportive. My dad has poked fun at me a few times, but I try not to let it get me down. Yesterday my mom and I made vegan choco chip cookies. Since my dad hated the cupcakes we got him to try the cookies and he actually liked them. My mom said, "there are no dairy products in these." He rolled his eyes and asked, "why?" My mom said, "because Jennifer has decided to live a vegan lifestyle and isn't eating any animal products." He kinda smirked and said, "okay, fine. Just give it a couple of years and when her health is royally screwed up she'll start eating steak and chicken."

[terem]

Ah boo. Damn defeatist attitude. Maybe if you keep giving him delicious vegan food he'll come around.

My sister just always makes a huge deal about it, and is always "checking" me on what I eat. She's just waiting for me to give it up. When I first went veggie, she said things like "That won't last long." There's really no support coming from her and she's always scrutinizing everything I eat.
When I was veggie and would eat eggs, she would judge me on that, and I would make a point, why doesn't she stop eating meat and eggs? And she was like, but I like meat. So why are you making a judgment on my lifestyle? A bit hypocritical.

[cobweb]

he-he, that annoys me, Terem, like my parents are very anti my veganism and always comment about 'fake meats', saying 'why would anyone be vegetarian and eat something that looks like meat'?
i actually just feel like saying to them 'why would you ask a question about something that clearly has fuck all to do with you?'
but i don't.
I'll be 40 soon. I'm a vegan. Please get over it.

[terem]

Ah yeah, it's weird when people hold grudges over something like veganism, something that isn't harmful or offensive at all.
Arguing for the sake of arguing.

[Quantum Mechanic]

he-he, that annoys me, Terem, like my parents are very anti my veganism and always comment about 'fake meats', saying 'why would anyone be vegetarian and eat something that looks like meat'?
i actually just feel like saying to them 'why would you ask a question about something that clearly has fuck all to do with you?'
but i don't.
I'll be 40 soon. I'm a vegan. Please get over it.

My parents are kind of the opposite. Ever since I am living with them, I eat a ton more fake meat and cheese than I did living at college, since they do the shopping and meal planning (I can ask for things whenever I want, but they usually add these things too, and I don't see a reason to make a big deal out of it since I'm not opposed to it, even if I'm eating it more often than usual).

In fact, my dad mentioned to a co-worker about me being vegan, and he's also mentioned about some of the health problems I've had this year, and she got very concerned because apparently she has a cousin or someone who is about my age and went vegan and apparently has been sick or something. But my dad explained how my illness was starting prior to becoming vegan, and how I am knowledgeable on where I get my vitamins and protein. So that was kind of cool.

[cobweb]

thats great, QM, very supportive parents you have!
my mother literally blames every little problem i have on being vegan, it really is quite boring now .
When i was a child i was fed on a very high meat diet, i suffered with terrible leg and foot cramps, constipation, and what i now believe to be a vitamin B deficiency (i had bad facial tics and used to get 'electric shocks' when i turned my neck). These things have gone now .

[Quantum Mechanic]

Yeah, it was neat to hear. After coming home to stay with parents on medical leave, I was wondering if, while they are generally quite supportive of my choices, they might insinuate that illness was related to being vegan, regardless of my health problems starting in the fall (and even earlier if it turns out this lump is not benign). Just the other day when I was having trouble to take a shower because of being tired to lift my arms up, my dad was telling me he thinks I can't really be that tired and I bring some of this on myself with a defeatist attitude about autism (citing that I could wash myself easier when I was younger than when an older teenager). He looks at this correlation with n of 1 so many times, despite studies showing that about 1/3 of autistic people experience loss of skills in adolescence, much like is common in toddlerhood (which I didn't experience loss of skills at that age so it's not something they're used to), and despite the fact that I speak more and more and am more self-reliant with food and water.

This test is hard to prepare for.

[DavidT]

A friend of mine got breast cancer and had a mastectomy; she then read up all she could find about the problem and subsequently went vegan - though she admits it's too late to save one breast, maybe she can save the other.

She was the first I heard use the term 'rich woman's disease' which is apparently what some Japanese call breast cancer. Only those in Japan who can afford a western diet (high in dairy and meat) get breast cancer, apparently.

It then led her to the totally unscientific (though perfectly valid) conclusion that putting 'foreign' (ie bovine) milk into a body which produces its own version of milk is bound to lead to conflict.

She is now totally recovered and leading a very active and healthy life and new career. It changed her totally - her habits, her appreciation of life, her awareness of external influences, everything.

My own conclusion from hers is that putting meat into a body which produces its own must lead to further conflicts. Again, not scientific and very hard to explain and justify but nonetheless logical to me.

Sorry this has gone off topic. I just felt I had to say what I said.

[cobweb]

DavidT thats exactly how i see it with putting dead body parts and cow milk into ones own body.

QM that must be hard for you, i understand as i see it happening with my son (who has Aspergers and Dyspraxia) but my husband often thinks our son is 'putting it on' (e.g with loss of skills).

[pat sommer]

The set up:

Second day running ordered at a seaside restaurant on our weekend trip.
Ran thru the litany again (half Chinese half in English) to the manager and reordered most of the same dishes.

Arrived at the table: scallion cakes, rice, pumpkin and mushroom, garlic spinach.... just the Sichuan tofu to come....

The Question:

Tofu have duck's blood; you want?

(more of an utterance than a coherent answer)

Got my tofu in the end

[Buddha Belly]

A friend of mine got breast cancer and had a mastectomy; she then read up all she could find about the problem and subsequently went vegan - though she admits it's too late to save one breast, maybe she can save the other.

She was the first I heard use the term 'rich woman's disease' which is apparently what some Japanese call breast cancer. Only those in Japan who can afford a western diet (high in dairy and meat) get breast cancer, apparently.

It then led her to the totally unscientific (though perfectly valid) conclusion that putting 'foreign' (ie bovine) milk into a body which produces its own version of milk is bound to lead to conflict.

She is now totally recovered and leading a very active and healthy life and new career. It changed her totally - her habits, her appreciation of life, her awareness of external influences, everything.

My own conclusion from hers is that putting meat into a body which produces its own must lead to further conflicts. Again, not scientific and very hard to explain and justify but nonetheless logical to me.

Sorry this has gone off topic. I just felt I had to say what I said.

Off topic again;

Do you know if any research been done into western diet causedc breast cancer in Japan? Sayings sometimes have some early basis in reality.

[Buddha Belly]

QM that must be hard for you, i understand as i see it happening with my son (who has Aspergers and Dyspraxia) but my husband often thinks our son is 'putting it on' (e.g with loss of skills).

I had a client with Aspergers and people from other agencies wrote him off as a trouble maker desperate for attention or trying to get his own way. There were two of us who really stuck up for him and got him into accommodation for aspergers sufferers. He was a lovely lad who had a crap home and stood no chance in his early years.

The problem was that this was in a client focused care profession, it is disgusting.

[DavidT]

Do you know if any research been done into western diet causedc breast cancer in Japan? Sayings sometimes have some early basis in reality.

Not offhand; that friend has moved to the next county and I rarely see her now. Try googling 'dairy products and breast cancer' - there are hundreds of thousands of results! Not scientific, I know but here's an interesting one from the top of the pile.

[terem]

Whoaa, duck's blood pat sommer? That's messed up, not just duck's blood, but any blood at all, who marinates in blood?!.

I'm glad you got your blood-free tofu in the end.

[Mahk]

Yesterday:

Me: Does that rice noodle dish contain egg?
Omni: Yes. You don't eat eggs?
Me: No, I'm a vegan, we don't eat any animals or animal products like dairy, eggs, or honey.
Omni: (*thinks for a minute*) But what about fish?
----

Talking to a kelp sales rep at a health food store:

Me: How long have you been eating kelp and what got you started?
Omni: About 2 years. I started because after my mother got breast cancer my research showed that women in Japan don't because their diet is high in seaweed products.

His kelp sample I ate tasted terrible, but then again I opted for no seasoning/dressing like the others had because I wanted to know the true unadulterated flavor. It was chewy like al dente linguine.

[DiaShel]

But what about fish?

Why does it always come back to fish!?

[harpy]

I think some omnivores are genuinely confused about fish, probably because of the self-styled "vegetarians" that will eat it. I haven't met a fish-eating "vegan" though (but there's a first time for everything )

[DiaShel]

I do understand omni's thinking vegetarians eating fish. If we say that we don't eat ANY animal products you'd think they'd get that you wouldn't eat an actual animal. Oh well!

[harpy]

Indeed, but somewhere in this or another thread there's a mention of a debate with an omnivore about whether fish were animals. Sigh - where do you start?

[Mahk]

Come to think of it, I do eat some kinds of fish.

[DiaShel]

Come to think of it, I do eat some kinds of fish.

Don't tell those omnis that... it'll just confused them more

[harpy]

Never heard of Swedish Fish before, but I'm delighted to hear they're vegan. I suppose they're the equivalent of our VegeBears

[Mahk]

Harpy, do eat bears then? [I've never heard of VegeBears.]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Fish

They are similar to the filling of a Jelly bean but they have no hard shell.