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Thread: Things meat eaters say and do

  1. #3001
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    Quote vava View Post
    so slavery is not really abolished
    True. The main difference is that we usually don't import the slave workers to our countries anymore - we let them work where they come from, and only import the products they make. That's a lot more profitable anyway, and leaves us with no or little legal responsibility for what could happen with them under the questionable conditions they work under.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  2. #3002
    Boodler pusskins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    Thank you, harpy and Manzana. Very good replies. It's hard to try to argue with somebody who does it for money and is respected as authoritative
    "You're right, Jackie. The Fonz could beat up Bruce Lee."

  3. #3003
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    Even here there are people who have servants who are effectively slaves, so I've read, and then there are "trafficked" prostitutes though there is controversy about how many.

    This site has a lot more info about present-day slavery http://www.antislavery.org/english/s...laveryday.aspx

  4. #3004
    Karma Junkie vava's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    Could you not just say - I don't recall asking for your opinion on my accessories?
    even perfect isn't perfect - Rubyduby 4th July 08

  5. #3005
    Manzana Manzana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    hahaha... I love it Vava... yep, that one gets my vote!

  6. #3006
    Boodler pusskins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    @vava Hmmm - I could, but then he would most likely retort "Don't wear something so provocative, then." And then make a big song and dance in the future if ever I wore a necklace or earrings and he overheard somebody complimenting them "Don't say anything! She doesn't like it!"

    Gosh, I really do love the people I have to suffer... sorry, work with!!

    I do like the response, though, vava To be used with others!
    "You're right, Jackie. The Fonz could beat up Bruce Lee."

  7. #3007
    Karma Junkie vava's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    then you reply - you only noticed cos you looked!

    When I was nursing a really cute guy (patient) was walking towards me in a long corridor with nasty hospital PJ's on and I told him he was flying - this was his response and after laughing gutwrenchingly I have remembered it ever since. Hopefully if you use it = he will feel like a dirty old man and leave you alone in the future. Of course the other way to look at it is that he is baiting you cos he can be bothered and in my experience you never bother with folk you don't like....
    even perfect isn't perfect - Rubyduby 4th July 08

  8. #3008
    Metal Head emzy1985's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    I'm currently having a discussion with somebody on Facebook about zoos. She ofcourse thinks that Colchester Zoo is amazing and is listing all the "great" things they do for animal welfare - so without me screaming, "I'm a trucking abolitionist" in her face, how can I go about this?
    The taste of anything in my mouth for 5 seconds does not equate to the beauty and complexity of life.

  9. #3009
    Manzana Manzana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    You can tell her that zoos are run by business people (not biologists/zoologists) and business people are there to make money...

    you can also ask her how many gorillas (and most zoos have gorillas) have been reintroduced in the wild (the answer is very close to 0) in which case, the issue of "conservation of vulnerable species" falls a bit on its a**e...

    You can also tell her that zoos wake a passion in some children to "love" animals but it also teaches them that it is ok to put them behind bars for our own enjoyment...

    Eventually, you can ask her if she would like to be in a zoo with all those wonderful things they do for "enrichment"... In the end, when we think about it, we all know that we'd hate to be in a zoo...

  10. #3010
    leedsveg
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    Well put, Manzana

    lv

  11. #3011
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    Some zoos seem better than others in terms of the habitats provided and so on, but given that the rate at which they return animals to the wild is mostly extremely low, most of the animals there will live out their entire lives in captivity - would she like that for herself?

    Must admit I feel slightly ambivalent about zoos myself, not from a vegan point of view but to the extent that some of them rescue "pets" that have been ill-treated or abandoned, and also may in theory conserve endangered species that can eventually be released in the wild, but I don't really see a case for breeding wild animals that can never live a wild life, which is what mostly seems to happen.

  12. #3012
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    ^Agreed.

    Also zoos are rubbish from an educational perspective because the animals' behavoir is not how they would naturally behave in the wild.

  13. #3013
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    Thanks guys!
    The taste of anything in my mouth for 5 seconds does not equate to the beauty and complexity of life.

  14. #3014
    Bad Buddhist Clueless Git's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    Quote pusskins View Post
    He (correctly) said that murder means the killing of humans. And he walks off all smug.
    I use the bolded part of the following quote for that one ...
    Truely man is the king of beasts, for his brutality exceeds theirs. We live by the death of others: we are burial places! I have from an early age abjured the use of meat, and the time will come when men such as I will look on the murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men. ~Leonardo da Vinci

    Followed by something along the lines of ...

    "I guess how people choose to see the murder of animals depends largely on if they are more like Leonardo Da Vinci than they are like Homer Simpson, of course .."
    All done in the best possible taste ...

  15. #3015
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    "Sorry, still enjoying meat! It's a personal choice I don't try to convince people otherwise." after I posted a link on my Facebook profile to an article from Psychology Today about how scientists are saying you can safely eat cloned cattle and my reply to the article was "Reason #129 to go vegan"...Funny, I thought my profile was about me and not about the person who wrote the idiot reply. ARGH.
    Flesh eating is unprovoked murder. ~ Benjamin Franklin

  16. #3016
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    Quote TXvegan View Post
    "Sorry, still enjoying meat! It's a personal choice I don't try to convince people otherwise." after I posted a link on my Facebook profile to an article from Psychology Today about how scientists are saying you can safely eat cloned cattle and my reply to the article was "Reason #129 to go vegan"...Funny, I thought my profile was about me and not about the person who wrote the idiot reply. ARGH.
    See, this is why I try to avoid human interaction People suck... Well, most of them anyway That's why I like the SPCA. Dogs make better people than most people do

    You guys seem to have a lot of arguments over facebook. Isn't there someway to post your opinion and block people attempting to reply to it? If they've got a problem with it, then they can stop reading your profile

  17. #3017
    Bad Buddhist Clueless Git's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    Quote Back-Space View Post
    You guys seem to have a lot of arguments over facebook.
    Don't they just!

    Forum fund raising idea coming up ...

    Submit the face book argument to a topic (easy enough to set one up for the purpose?) - let the members here come up with witty/sharp replies.

    If the FB user thinks any replies are good enough to use they have donate $5.00 (or something) to the running of this forum in return for the 'intelectual' <ahem!> copyright.
    All done in the best possible taste ...

  18. #3018
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    TX Vegan; I like how the FB post you received started with SORRY:
    "well, if you truly are sorry, there may be hope for you yet'
    the only animal ingredient in my food is cat hair

  19. #3019
    Bad Buddhist Clueless Git's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    This one seriously worried me ...

    Boxing day dinner with my family at m'mum'n'dads house; After 20+ years of being cut to shreds on any and every possible angle of 'meating eating is not wrong' only the smallest token amounts of meat ever appear at our family get togethers if I am going to be there. This year my very simple vegan contributions to the table were sausage rolls (Linda McCartney) and coronation (Real-Eat) chicken, both of which were happily consumed and complimented on by everyone.

    My sister, entirely non-provocatively, commented that she didn't understand why any one who "didn't like meat" would want to eat anything that satisfactorily (to a meat eaters palet) mimmicked meat flavours.

    A bit of gentle digging reveals that even after 20+ years of hearing all the animal welfare / land use / environmental damage / human health / human starvation / spiritual & religious arguments against meat eating my sister still cannot grasp that there is any possible reason for not eating meat other than not liking 'meaty' flavours.

    I kinda became aware during the conversation that to some people (a LOT of people?), as no visible harm happens to themself on a fork by forkfull basis, the concept of meat eating being, in any meaningfull way, a harmfull practice is totally incomprehensible.
    All done in the best possible taste ...

  20. #3020
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    I have been on a diet recently, having packed on a few extra tyres. Am sitting at my desk at work and someone comments on my weight loss then asks, 'But what on earth can you cut down on, if you're vegan?!'
    Me :- 'Erm, chips, fried food, bread, stodge, cider, wine, using too much oil in my cooking, crisps, pastries, ready-made junk etc'
    Clown:- 'OH! I didn't realise you could eat all that!'
    The greatest mistake is to do nothing because you can only do a little.

  21. #3021

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    This was my first christmas as a vegan and I ended up in the bathroom crying out of frustration. Since the second our family got together I felt like I was the butt of all jokes. The chili was cooked sperate from the beef and my brother tried to put the beef on my plate to get a laugh out of everyone. Then he proceeds to rub his rough wool sweater on my cheek, to top that off his "hippie gf" tries to explain to me that the wool is shaved and that the animals don't get cut. (Like I was confused...) My sister making snide comments about how even her dog wouldn't vegan food and my brother complaining that all the baking (because I'm the only one who got off my butt to bake) was vegan, etc. Then proceeds to say he could be vegan and that I am not better then he is because I am vegan, etc. etc. Well after my whole family chimed in and they decided to "correct" me by saying that the animals all die anyways so who cares - oh and how silly I am because cows don't feel pain. I felt like no matter my response I had 5 people telling me how wrong and silly I was. Any advice? Has anyone else had a complete emotional melt down from being bullyed about being vegan?

  22. #3022
    Manzana Manzana's Avatar
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    Hi lllhalvor,

    First of all, sorry to hear about ur frustrating Christmas... it does get easier (a lot easier!) with time... in my experience!

    Second, you do not have to sit down and take it, you are perfectly entitled to warn them and tell them "I would love to spend Christmas with you, I love you and you are my family... however, if I have one more stupid comment/joke/disrespectful touching of the subject, I am going to be forced to leave". If you tell your parents in advance something like this, they will pay more attention next time... and if they don't spend Christmas with some vegans and they will be a lot more careful when they realise that you do not have to spend your valuable time being bullied (even if it is by your family)...

    People are a bit like children... just testing the limits... so make sure you let them know where the limits are.

  23. #3023
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience llhalvor. I think when you go vegan some folk just think (through no action on your part!) that you are somehow directly criticising them -and they can become very, very defensive.

    Over time they will calm down and just see it as 'normal' and part of who you are. Just remember it's their problem and not yours and try your best not to let it upset you- I know it can be hard though .

    Hopefully they will gradually not be so defensive and might even become genuinely curious about and interested in your veganism. Good luck .

  24. #3024
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    So sorry as well, llhavor. Ain't it odd that families would never treat a perfect stranger that way but because they are secure in your love, they think they can get away with it?
    At least you understand that they were in the wrong and you deserve better. Hope you can find resolution to this.

    And Cupid Stunt: "I kinda became aware during the conversation that to some people (a LOT of people?), as no visible harm happens to themself on a fork by forkfull basis, the concept of meat eating being, in any meaningfull way, a harmfull practice is totally incomprehensible."

    Kinda explains why the world is in such a state, doesn't it? I could give examples how I came to the same conclusion as you...
    the only animal ingredient in my food is cat hair

  25. #3025
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    That does sound horrid llhalvor - I'm afraid Christmas sometimes brings out the worst in families, doesn't it? I would guess they were just using their "teasing" of you to vent some general frustrations, weren't they? After a while the novelty of you being vegan will wear off and they will move on to something else on these occasions, no doubt.

    Apart from what's already been suggested, I would consider simply refusing to get drawn into a conversation about it - just smile or pull a face or something if they make remarks, and go out of the room if necessary. You know you're in the right about this and you don't have to defend your position if you don't want to.

    Must admit "cows don't feel pain" is not a line I've heard before Presumably someone is on your side if they made vegan food for you?

  26. #3026
    leedsveg
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    Hi llhalvor and welcome to the forum.

    I'm sure your family are not bad people but sometimes people gathered in a family group say things that they perhaps wouldn't on a one-to-one basis with you. You continue to be strong, compassionate, mature and sensible with your veganism, even if your family members (currently) can't.

    If it helps, just think of us lot as extended family, who are always here for you and totally on your side.

    Leedsveg

  27. #3027
    Karma Junkie vava's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    What everyone else said PLUS they sound like they have been giving it some thought to me and they were spurred on by guilt. Guilt is a terrible thing and it sounds like your chosen lifestyle has provoked some uncomfortable thoughts in your family. That and the evidence of it - could be seen as a GOOD thing! Your brother has clearly thought about even the wool on his back instead of the on the back of the animal that produced it.

    Sounds to me like you are doing a good job - remember it is all about the animals so rubbing your face on wool isn't the problem - it is the fact that it has been stolen from the animal that is the problem. Onwards and upwards m'dear!
    even perfect isn't perfect - Rubyduby 4th July 08

  28. #3028

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    What a horrible situation.

    Close family sure have the ability to jerk those tears when they want to (or even when they don't).
    I have been on the receiving end of this before and it just flat out sucks. The people that mean the most to you in the world and the people that are supposed to know you best just don't understand this new part of you- a part that which to you, is so very important.

    This will get better with time. Trust me it will. With time comes knowledge and breathing space. As your family have a vegan presence around them now it is just natural that thier eyes and ears will be open to these ideas and voices and their tempers and perhaps thier unconscious guilt will settle and become more productive.

    The current runs cool beneath the raging sea my dear. Best of luck!

  29. #3029

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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    Not a nice thing to happen at any time of year, this was my first christmas as a vegan as well and generally my family were good about it but it's still frustrating when they come out with ridiculous comments. The best one being "so you just want all farm animals to die? because if we didn't eat meat they wouldn't be there". Yes that's exactly what I want, all animals to just drop dead

    Ah well, now to look forward to the next family gathering...

  30. #3030
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    Sorry llhalvor. That really sucks That must put a lot of stress on your shoulders, don't let it get to you. They're ignorant. I know a lot of people who are the same way. They're set in their ways and no matter what you say, there's no convincing them otherwise. I just try to keep to myself and if anyone makes a snide comment, I reply with an equally snide remark that I work to make them sound like an idiot. I love Christmas

  31. #3031
    cxmnz
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    I'm sure this thread is going to get very busy over the next few days after everyone returns from family gatherings! I had a couple of good comments this weekend - although my family have finally come around to me being vegan after several years, they still don't quite get it! I certainly didn't starve, although being ill and not really eating anything much at the moment meant I didn't even eat a small amount of what I could.

    The first was "do you think you became vegan because I gave you soya milk when you were a baby?" from my mum, followed a few hours later by being told that the chocolates being passed round must be vegan because "they have soya on the ingredients, look..." - I pointed out that far higher in the list was milk, whey powder and something else dairy I can't remember, as well as the very prominent tagline on the box that said 'milk chocolate selection'! I also had a chunk of cheese thrown at me, but that was by accident (they were aiming for their dog who never seems to leaves my side when I visit), and it was far easier and amusing just to laugh that one off.

    Luckily my family, while not being at all convinced by veganism, don't bother starting arguments about veganism these days as I've proved many times over that I know far more about food production and animal cruelty than they do - unfortunately these arguments have been replaced by ones about anarchism and capitalism which I'm equally well educated in, but as they're a far more subjective issue, makes for harder discussion with people who just don't get it. Ah well, drinking copiously soon saw to all that.

  32. #3032

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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    Ilhalvor thats really crap, I'm sorry to hear about it my brother would never do that to me!

    It's only because they feel threatened because deep down they can't justify their lifestyle. Also, it was probably all a joke to them and they can't empathize with how important it is to you and how hurtful they was.

    The only thing I can say is try to be strong and not care. the reason some people don't get bullied is because they genuinely don't care what others think. Easier said then done though, I'm trying to do it too

  33. #3033
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    This isn't particularly to do with veganism as such, more animal welfare generally, but I had a 'heated discussion' with my mum over the holidays when she said that she doesn't feed wild birds in her garden on point of principle because she 'believes in evolution'... in other words, if they can't survive without human help then they should die off, survival of the fittest and all that! When I asked her would she treat a human being in the same way (say, if they were starving on the streets) she said that was different (isn't it always 'different' when it comes to humans?) and that I was 'anthropomorphising' the birds, etc. I almost lost my temper...

    Then I said 'it isn't wrong to care about animals' to which my dad replied 'It isn't wrong NOT to care about them either.' Erm... I disagree!

    My parents are very supportive of my veganism, always make an effort to cook vegan food and buy vegan treats in for me and my boyfriend etc, and never bully me about it, but scratch the surface and their attitudes to animals can be quite alarming.
    http://veganofthenorth.wordpress.com/

  34. #3034
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    Earthling, that sounds rather difficult. I guess your parents are just doing the same as a lot of people do and creating an artificial separation between humans and the rest of the animal kingdom to justify doing what they want to do ("anthromorphising" only makes sense in this context if you have a world view in which only human suffering is important). Maybe they have a sneaking suspicion that you are right though? Some of the comments sound slightly defensive.

  35. #3035
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    Well, it wasn't something somebody said this time...

    Was at a houseparty the other week where everybody brought some food. A couple of people had very kindly made some vegan food bits and bobs. We took along some homemade hoummous and biscuits.

    One lady (who is very...big and outgoing and tends to be at the centre of everything and always has a story to tell and is always right...Can you picture what sort of person I mean?) brought out a massive block of cheese and started grating it at the table where all the food was in to a bowl, using one of those hand-held graters, the kind with a handle? I thought she would be careful...

    So I took the food I wanted and went and sat down and started tucking in. And found it was scattered and flecked with the cheese. So I had to throw it away. And I felt rotten for having eaten some cheese.

    I know I'm making a big deal about it, but it made me upset. And angry. However, I didn't say anything, as the lady is not somebody you could really say anything to. I've tried before! She's a "get stuck in and sod everybody else!" type.

    So it wasn't anything anybody said. It was what somebody did I went and had a look later, and there was bloody cheese everywhere.
    "You're right, Jackie. The Fonz could beat up Bruce Lee."

  36. #3036
    VagabondVegan
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    Actions are worse than words because if she said something you could 'lay it on her' but if its an action and you say something then you look like the one at fault for being picky and awkward...what I just said is no help just an observation but I know what you mean. Its the whole alpha male/female thing...need to remove her from the centre...um hmm...like lions just without...injuring her and killing her kids...hehe :P

  37. #3037
    Boodler pusskins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say



    Yes, I know what you mean about the whole not wanting to look picky and awkward and then having to justify yourself. I just stuck to my fizzy elderflower, which was all I could have because they didn't think anybody would be drinking soft drinks

    Anyway, enough ranting! I don't have to ever face that woman again!
    "You're right, Jackie. The Fonz could beat up Bruce Lee."

  38. #3038
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    How pesky. Not much point making a fuss after the event, but perhaps the next time you can erect an electric fence with gun turrets round the vegan food, or find some other equally subtle hint to drop ETA oh, it sounds as if there won't be a next time.

  39. #3039
    Boodler pusskins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    Ha ha! Yes, arrange a suitable Krypton Factor-esque course to get to the vegan food! Am kind of thankful there will be no next time... But I did get asked for the biscuit recipe by various people, so I have left my vegan mark for them to ponder on next time!
    "You're right, Jackie. The Fonz could beat up Bruce Lee."

  40. #3040
    VagabondVegan
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    Sounds like a plan to me...OR...bring an array of the many Vegan body builders in the world to make another point

  41. #3041

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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    I would I could get money every time when I say I'm vegan and I get the response 'Oh, but I could never do that!', I would be sooo rich!!

  42. #3042

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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    When I just told my dad (a vegetarian) that there is an erogenous zone on this site he seemed shocked that vegans engage in unholy activites: "but theyre supposed to be pure..." then "I bet theyre smearing themselves in bacon or something"

  43. #3043
    VagabondVegan
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    Quote The Queen View Post
    When I just told my dad (a vegetarian) that there is an erogenous zone on this site he seemed shocked that vegans engage in unholy activites: "but theyre supposed to be pure..." then "I bet theyre smearing themselves in bacon or something"
    No no no thats silly...just the Vegan Bacon by Redwoods food bought at Holland and Barrets. Bit of an advertisement there...

  44. #3044

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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    Lol your dad has a funny head on him!

  45. #3045

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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    'But what would we so with all the cows if everybody suddenly went vegan?' (a compelling reason for all of us to turn omni immediately )

    'but don't you know that cows like being milked?' (not the same person I swear!)

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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    So=do


  47. #3047
    VagabondVegan
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    Quote khadagan View Post
    'but don't you know that cows like being milked?' (not the same person I swear!)
    Yeah because cows like being genetically bred to have ridiculously huge udders that cripple them just to provide more milk for us...and thats what I say to those people

  48. #3048

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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    And the last one for tonight..'you do know that you are not changing the world with this behavior? You are only making it harder for yourself..'

    My response to this usually is that I'm not trying to change anything, but living life the best and in the most just way I know. I usually add that I couldnt live with myself if I would participate and therefore condone the exploitation of and mass murder of animals for no point at all. I often get a few seconds silence after this and sometimes an apology.

    Anyway on this happy note I'm going to get some sleep!

  49. #3049
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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    Quote khadagan View Post
    And the last one for tonight..'you do know that you are not changing the world with this behavior? You are only making it harder for yourself..'

    My response to this usually is that I'm not trying to change anything, but living life the best and in the most just way I know.
    Good response, khadagan, although I think you actually are changing the world as well - have you seen those figures about how many animals etc the average omnivore consumes in a lifetime? That's before you take into account the influence you may have on other people, who may rethink their eating habits a bit as a result of knowing you, even if they don't all become vegan.

  50. #3050

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    Default Re: Things meat eaters say

    I would say, Were nnot changing the world, but since omni's have 95 animals a year slaughtered for them on average (and that's only including direct meat consumption) by going vegan we arent saving or changing anything, we're just not having it killed. We're not doing anything good, we're just doing less bad

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