Things meat eaters say and do

[Mermaid07]

Why do people constantly say that you HAVE to eat meat to be Healthy. I recently got a personal trainer and she said I need to eat protien. I told her I eat tofu, beans, etc. ANd she said no real protein? WHY?

[aubergine]

Print this into out for her to read.

http://www.pcrm.org/health/veginfo/protein.html

[Monday]

I am so glad I didn't go down to Devon with Hubby (his ex-wife had been on holiday with the kids in Devon and then dropped them off at his mother's and hubby went down to spend a few days and bring them back - I stayed at home to look after the animals)

Anyway when his parents stayed with us for the week they ate vegan and thought it was OK but had no interest in it themselves (But I like the taste!!!). We even took them to the Veggie Roadshow in York!!

Anyway on his first day she cooked up a roast chicken (very considerate) and actually said to him "you can't eat roast potatoes can you?". Hubby explained that if they were done in veg oil of course he could. She had even set aside separate veg that he could eat like celery but thought he couldn't eat other veg?!??! (I assume it's the vegans eat salad thing or something thing?)

She shops in the co-op and all she had bought him was soya milk and marg. They proceeded to cook meat for every meal, even lunch was cheese or meat sandwiches. She even thought he couldn't eat dried pasta!! They ate vegan with us for a whole week!!!!!! And she just doesn't get it - how difficult is it?

His dad asked what happens if he eats something non-vegan by mistake!

He met up with his brother who on hearing he was vegan asked what tablets he took! When hubby said he didn't take any brother said "Well, you look healthy"!!!??!

I am so glad I didn't go - i think I might have either started screaming or stabbed someone!!!

I'm just so not used to it. My mum and sister are both lacto-ovo veg which i hate but they don't want to change but they are supportive of my choices and both have soya milk in the house for when i visit and have a cup of tea and my mum makes sure she has vegan suasages in if I am there and want a quick snack. They both buy vegan marge cos they like it and it means I can use it and they both invite me for meals and make vegan food. It is such a shock when other epople don't get it. As my mum said - How difficult is it? No animal products! If you're not sure, read the label or use stuff like veg!!

Oooh I just remembered, hubby's mum was also trying to get him to meet up with her next door neighbour who he used to go to school with - this person bullied him and is now a pig breeder!!!!!! He said he didn't want to and she said "But you have to" hubby said that he didn't have to and if he did meet him he would end up saying something that would upset everyone and she said but you speak to me and I eat pigs and hubby said "Well, I have to speak to you.!!!

Then when he was dropping his son off to do something near the Big Sheep which is some sort of "fun" sheep based attraction she asked him if he was going to spend his waiting time visiting it. When he said no cos it is animal exploitation that he didn't want to support she said "Don't be silly". can you imagine telling a 42 year old who has expressed their own personal belief not to be silly!

Monday xx

[nickysr]

Hi there
What a shame they couldn't make more of an effort for your lovely hubbie.
I am going tonight for my weekly dinner at my best friends house.
She is not a vegan and has no interest in it personally but every week I get a 3 course vegan meal freshly cooked by her - she makes me vegan cakes and biccies (naughty but nice) and bless her, always has soy milk in in case I want a cup of coffee. I think when people understand your views and that they are not just a 'faddy diet' then they will make more of an effort.
My parents are comitted meat eaters yet make amazing vegan dishes for us when we come to visit, but then as we have been 'funny' eaters for years - they are so used to it now! They even get their friends to make us vegan cakes etc for our visits. Actually it has become a challenge and Dad is always telling me what recipe he has found for our next visit - we even got vegan xmas pudding last year - yum!
Maybe if your families understand it isn't something you can change about yourself and is a for life thing then they will be more tolerant?
Also I do find that the word vegan scares the best of cooks! and that to let them know that you can eat most things they do (ie all fruit, veg, seeds, nuts, pulses etc..) then it is pressure off them - the dried pasta is a comon misconception - people to tend to think they have to give you lentils and mungbeans! whereas a good tomato or roast veg sauce on pasta is great - or even olive oil and lemon with a bit of sage etc... even a baked potato is great!
I do think non-vegan eaters can worry about what to cook. I know my family/friends are all so used to it - they know what to do, but really most meals can be vegan just by not serving the meat bit? Especially if they are entrenched in the old - meat and 2 veg dinners!

Another point to make is a bit more radical - you say that they ate vegan for the week they stayed with you (ie - you made NO concessions to their chosen diet) yet seem suprised that they ate meat based meals when you/hubby stayed with them. Surely they made the same amount of effort that you did?
That last bit sounds harsh but I do think it is true!!

[sandra]

Monday, it must have been awful for your husband having to endure that!
I find the same if I'm eating with omni's, they just can't seem to understand that vegans just don't eat anything that comes from an animal! They can't grasp the concept at all. I also would not cook meals with meat for omni's if they stayed with me. I think it is completely different to expecting them to cook for vegans. Nothing has been abused and killed to feed us whereas their meals are nothing but that! I could never serve up a part of an animal as food, no matter who it was for!

[Monday]

I completely agree Sandra, I was going to write something to that effect but got all tangled up with my words and so didn't. Thanks for putting it so neatly and clearly.

I
Another point to make is a bit more radical - you say that they ate vegan for the week they stayed with you (ie - you made NO concessions to their chosen diet) yet seem suprised that they ate meat based meals when you/hubby stayed with them. Surely they made the same amount of effort that you did?
That last bit sounds harsh but I do think it is true!!

If hubby's parents had had a dietary restriction then I would have made an effort and produced food they could eat (e.g. when my friend who is coeliac used to come to stay we bought her special bread and cakes and cooked gluten free meals for all of us to eat - i tried not to eat thing in front of her that she couldn't eat - it just seems rude).

But they don't have a dietary restriction - meat is not something they HAVE to eat or that they eat instead of something else so we made them good healthy food (bearing in mind the size of his mother and her high blood pressure, we were doing what is best for her too!) . We made a special effort to plan meals and make them nice stuff.

To know that a vegan is coming and it upsets them that people eat animals and to do a roast chicken (which even still looks like the animal it was) just seems to height of inconsiderateness and either they really have no idea or they are actually very hostile to our diet. I am beginning to think it might be the former.

Monday x

[nickysr]

Dear Monday,
After posting my comments about the - making no concessions to their dietary habits blah blah- while I think it is true to a point- I had forgotten the fact that , of course, they can eat EVERYTHING put in front of them without compromising their views whereas we cannot!
Also now realising they had spent a week with you, eating 'normal' vegan food - then I think you are right in being pissed off that they did not make more effort - I guess I thought they were just ignorant to the 'ways of the vegan'! but now realise they must just be really rude - as after a week they would surely know what food is suitable for us? they must not really care and must think it is a fad that they can ignore. This would really piss me off too - inlaws are hard enough to deal with at the best of times! nevermind the fact they totally ignored your/hubbies dietary requirements.
The chicken thing is annoying but you cannot change what they choose to eat, as long as they have other foods prepared for you too then I guess they can eat chicken all day long?
I am lucky that my inlaws make an effort and while they may have meat for a sunday roast - they will always make us a nut loaf as well.
I guess the longer you and hubby are vegan - the more they will come round.

[aubergine]

Anyway on his first day she cooked up a roast chicken (very considerate) and actually said to him "you can't eat roast potatoes can you?". Hubby explained that if they were done in veg oil of course he could. She had even set aside separate veg that he could eat like celery but thought he couldn't eat other veg?!??! (I assume it's the vegans eat salad thing or something thing?)

She shops in the co-op and all she had bought him was soya milk and marg. They proceeded to cook meat for every meal, even lunch was cheese or meat sandwiches. She even thought he couldn't eat dried pasta!! They ate vegan with us for a whole week!!!!!! And she just doesn't get it - how difficult is it?

When people are this ignorant I'm pretty much convinced they do it to wind people up. I don't believe for a minute that someone would think Vegans couldn't eat certain vegetables if you've explained what a Vegan is.

Console yourself with the thought that you don't have to act like a child. I find very often that Omnis are society's lowest common denominator.

[aubergine]

I am going tonight for my weekly dinner at my best friends house.
She is not a vegan and has no interest in it personally but every week I get a 3 course vegan meal freshly cooked by her - she makes me vegan cakes and biccies (naughty but nice) and bless her, always has soy milk in in case I want a cup of coffee.

That is brilliant!

Welcome to the forum too, fellow south londoner

[Monday]

Thanks nickysr - I think they had chicken and he had the veg and potatoes with some vegan sausages he had taken with him - they had not found/made him anything else to go with the veg etc.

I think they are just very close minded and don't want to even think about what we eat and why. You should hear their attitude towards the internet!!!!

Monday xx

[Hemlock]

I am so FED UP just lately of people (mainly in the biking community) calling me a hippy tree hugger every 5 minutes and deriding my way of life. The other vegetarians are such cop outs - they all say oh we're only veggies because we can't absorb meat or for some other nefarious and rubbish "medical" reason.
What is so tough and hard about eating cheap burgers in white bread and smoking 60 cigarettes a day!!!
I know so many so called tough guy bikers who if they weren't propelled along on their motorbikes couldn't walk 5 yards without dropping dead of a coronary.
I just say I'm not a sheep and I'll eat what I like and do what I like and if you don't like it .......tough!
I'm intending on spending the entire winter pumping iron at the gym so that next rally season I can compare my buff bronze body with their pallid sweaty rolls of fat and stick 2 fingers up.
Thank you people, I feel better for venting

[fiamma]

People like that are so weak they need to belittle others to feel better about themselves I wouldn't rise to the bait. You know deep down you're doing what's best for you and the planet. Good idea about the gym!

[aubergine]

Hemlock - Interestingly they'd be more manly as Vegans because the animal fat that clogs their arteries impedes blood flow to their unmentionables!

[sugarmouse]

one that anoys me on a regular basis is 'well i grew up and was brought up eating meat.It would b hard to stop'
it drives me nuts.It isnt hard if you care and want to .and so what if it is?! its so worth it!!

[herbwormwood]

Why do people constantly say that you HAVE to eat meat to be Healthy.

They don't. You're listening to the wrong people.

[moochbabe]

I have a lot of friends that I love to death but honestly, when it comes to veganism they are clueless. My examples:
a) me: I even make my own soymilk
friend: soy milk isn't even good for you!
-what did that have to do with anything? and yes, it is

b)me: I don't eat flesh
another friend: it's not flesh, it's meat

c)another friend: I watched the meet your meat video and decided not to eat meat anymore
me:that's great!
another friend: but I don't expect it to last long, I'll cave soon

sometimes it's so hard...but at least they're all respectful of my decision (I run faster than all of them and so they can't try the: "you need meat for health"

[keykeypie]

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiamma
my point is simply that while most vegans would probably be happy to watch a video of how their food is made, the same doesn't hold true for meat eaters.

So true......and how many meat eaters would object to living next to a garden? No problem? Then what about living next to a slaughter house?
I rest my case

[moochbabe]

honestly, I really like your point. it's like, people get disgusted etc watching videos in slaughter houses but people don't get sickened watching plants picked, yet they have no problem with the fact that the end product of all that blood and pain is what is on their plates. i am sickened by agro-business and conventional farming and so I choose organic, if someone is disgusted by slaughter why not choose veg? I know, utopia thinking and obviously everyone on here chooses to live that way, it's just so...ugh...sometimes, you know?

[eclectic_one]

The vegan man I'm seeing now said that one of his co-workers said that he could eat a hamburger as he walked through a slaughterhouse Either this co-worker is totally psycho or full of crap IMO...

[Haniska]

one that anoys me on a regular basis is 'well i grew up and was brought up eating meat.It would b hard to stop'
it drives me nuts.It isnt hard if you care and want to .and so what if it is?! its so worth it!!

"Oh, so is your dad a vegetarian? Did your parents bring you up vegetarian?" These questions are really out from left field for me (considering how I was brought up). Not to mention that it offends me. As if I could not have made the decision not to kill for myself! sugarmouse, if your parents are veg I mean no offense, but for some reason that it generally the first question I am asked. And then they are SHOCKED when I say no! I asked one woman why she thought that and she said she thought I was too young to have made the decision.

[Mermaid07]

Thanks
vegandrummersam for the info on protein! I know you don't need meat to be healthy, but a lot of people seem to think this way!

[fiamma]

one of his co-workers said that he could eat a hamburger as he walked through a slaughterhouse

That's one of the sickest comments I've ever heard, even coming from a meat eater. Parks and gardens are full of people and families enjoying themselves, botanical gardens are popular, and people find normally find that going to a "pick your own fruit" farm is a good day out. Revelling in what nature has given us. I don't think the same holds true for slaughterhouses, they're hardly selling tickets for entry, possibly because they are the embodiment of suffering and represent the dark side of the food industry. That this man revels in the suffering of living creatures... I think he's full of crap, macho b***sh*t. Hope I never have to work with someone like that.

[fiamma]

Mermaid07 I love your avatar! I think pigs are my favourite animal.

[sindii]

I think i posted in this thread earlier saying i dealt with ignorant meat eaters, however my older brother is becoming a real dick, at every chance he will try and say stuff in front of everyone about meat and my eating habits, like when my mates are around and i cook something for them vegan he will always say stuff like how can you eat that shit without meat in it or it taste like crap even though it doesn't and the lads who come around are meat eaters but love the stuff i make and one of the lads prefers my vegan curries now to his meat based ones. I think he's close to crack.

There is nothing worse than some loser rubbing it in and trying to make you look a freak!!

[eclectic_one]

There is nothing worse than some loser rubbing it in and trying to make you look a freak!!

I think the only thing worse would be for him to succeed in making you feel like a freak I'm glad I don't have anyone going to the extremes that you mentioned!

[sindii]

I keep letting it go other my head for now, think i'll put laxatives in his vodka or something silly

[Mermaid07]

I think i posted in this thread earlier saying i dealt with ignorant meat eaters, however my older brother is becoming a real dick, at every chance he will try and say stuff in front of everyone about meat and my eating habits, like when my mates are around and i cook something for them vegan he will always say stuff like how can you eat that shit without meat in it or it taste like crap even though it doesn't and the lads who come around are meat eaters but love the stuff i make and one of the lads prefers my vegan curries now to his meat based ones. I think he's close to crack.

There is nothing worse than some loser rubbing it in and trying to make you look a freak!!

I know how you feel. People at my work are constantly saying how can you eat that with out meat. EWW a salad with out chicken! They are so concerned about my diet when they should be worried about their own and how unhealthy they are eating. I choose to ignore people's obviously RUDE comments because if you explain yourself it only fuels the fire. People like this don't care WHY you are a Vegan they just want to put you down because it is not what "normal" people eat.

[keykeypie]

.....I've said this before......they are so concerned about your diet out of guilt!!!
I'm telling you.....that's all it is. If you said I quit smoking or drinking people would say .....way to go...good for you even if they continue to do
both. Nobody would put you down if you said you walked to work...even if all the others rode........but mention not eating meat, and out comes the guilt
......in many different forms.......because the bottom line is, THEY KNOW THEY ARE WRONG! They know what they're doing is ugly & disgusting.....
......they may not admit it, but I promise you, on some level THEY KNOW!

[satirecafe]

what a stupid argument! how do they think cows survived before we domesticated them in the new stone age?

[Benji]

one of my friends just stated this today. I explained it to him and seemed like he had a breakthrough.

[eve]

put it down to ignorance.

[philfox]

people annoy me so much sometimes with their ignorance. however places like this have retored my faith in the human race and i thank you all.
firstly my last place of work was awful...hell is too nice a word to describe it. a colleague proclaimed to be vegetarian, yet ate fish and as a vegetarian at the time i explained over and over again about the reasons why you cant be vegetarian and eat fish. its like saying im vegatarian but eat beef, same thing, different animal. so everyone at work was like 'you can eat fish' i was like 'no' and they were 'so and so eats fish' grrrrrr
then i went veganand that was impossible to get through, a colleague said she was vegan, but still ate fish as it was healthy O.o
on my last day my boss brought cakes for people and some cherries and strawberries for me (my fave snack foods btw) well, did everyone (who had BLTs and wave them in my face every morning, or said i was missing out, or why cant i have cakes at other peoples leaving dos) eat the cakes? no they ate my fruit grrr
then at my partner's dad's house for easter i got:
you can have an easter egg surely?
its only one egg, just this once
you can eat some turkey, tats not meat
what do you eat?
and how did you become vegetarian? from his so annoying grandmother who was a farmers wife
the reply to the last comment came from my omni partner who said under his breath 'stop eating meat'

edited to add: i am a member of a forum and the issue of vegetarianism and animals came up. if you want to read the whole thing:
http://ponylandscatfight.com/viewtop...192d7b9a6fc811

if you want a little flavour comments such as:

"And STOP AVOIDING replying when I ask you what is better - wearing biodegradable fur and leather and wool, or encouraging non-biodegradable petroleum and plastic-based synthetic fabrics that ends up killing wildlife and poisonning echosystems.

Funnily enough, I have yet to hear a vegan actually reply to that one. Like they're afraid the very fundations of their life are going to crumble..."

"I commend vegitarians but it does make me laugh when people bitch about things like the castration of male pigs. Um...would YOU like a full grown boar on your hands? What would you have them do, slaughter and throw out the males? People also bitch about veal. What they don't realize is that veal is a necessary market, and where baby boy dairy calves are put. What use is a boy dairy cow? Veal is the result of a waste not, want not practice in dairy farming. It would actually be more beneficial to the animals to support a system where veal babies are less tender and have more muscle to them (IE they excersized, etc.). Not by bitching and calling it "toutured baby cow" but by supporting farms that provide ethical veal. Otherwise they need to get rid of the males somehow!"

[Tigerlily]

My omnivore cousin was asking me what career options where there for someone who wanted to help animals. She said she didn't want to be a vet.

I felt like telling her to stop eating animals products because that would help out a lot of animals. But I have a feeling she was only talking about cutesy animals like kittens and puppies.

[sandra]

I don't know what vegans that person has been talking to, Philfox, but I would happily reply to that comment if I was in conversation with him/her! Also, what's all that about the foundations of a vegan's life crumbling!

[philfox]

sandra: they were going on about how hypocritical vegans are who wear non leather shoes as it damages the environment and she said she wore leather for moral reasons and that it always stumps vegans. i was part of the original thread they were going on about so i refused to enter that one, i suppose to claim 'the moral highground' or rather not sink to their level. it's funny watching people argue when they havent a clue about anything. her argument about a vegans foundations crumbling made no sense, unless she knew about these cheap boots i got from shoe zone...

[aubergine]

they were going on about how hypocritical vegans are who wear non leather shoes as it damages the environment and she said she wore leather for moral reasons and that it always stumps vegans.

Creating 'hides' pollutes more than the equivalent synthetic fabric, and there's tons of natural fabrics that don't need much treatment at all.

[philfox]

i know, and look at the petroleum products that go in to fertilizers to feed those animals reason 1,002,221 why i never responded to her, that and my fingers were to weak to type due to lack of dairy products

[sandra]

Hi philfox, you're right about not wanting to enter some conversations, sometimes I'm so taken aback by the things people say, I'm left speechless.

[fiamma]

what is better - wearing biodegradable fur and leather and wool, or encouraging non-biodegradable petroleum and plastic-based synthetic fabrics that ends up killing wildlife and poisonning echosystems.

I wonder if this person is aware of the impact his lifestyle has on the environment - all the grain which goes to feed the animals which produce his leather and wool, which could go directly to feeding people, plus all the waste produce which comes from these animals which does the "echosystem" (sic) no good at all. And why such feelings of compassion towards wildlife while showing such indifference towards farm animals? I agree that synthetic fabrics are not ideal for the environment, but it's been proven that the vegan lifestyle is more sustainable than that of a meat eater. It's like the pig-on-a-desert-island scenario, meat eaters trying to "catch out" vegans.

[Shadowsoul]

I agree with what you guys say, it is contradicting whenever I see people who profess as environmentalist, treehuggers, ecologists, and carnivores

It is always easier to say "I love nature" without having your hands soiled, but when you say you are a vegan, you have so much accountability, to ecology, animals, and even to humans.

I know someone who says she is an environmentalist and is a extensive carnivore, and then I said "I thought you love nature, I think you know eating meat supports meat industry which greatly contributes to pollution and natural degredation due to high amount of feces and belching they give off to atmosphere due to the animals's living conditions, so how come you are currently supporting the top natural polluters " (I actually said that, no pauses hahaha

She couldn't answer.

[sandra]

That's brilliant Shadowsoul, I like the 'no pauses' bit.

[Jamie]

not everything vegans use is plastic though!! What about cotton, hemp, rubber, linen, etc... I try to recycle whatever I can and buy recycled where I can. Although I have to admit that I tend to buy new clothes when I do, but from now on more of it is organic and eco/ethical too.

[princessemma]

I don't have that moral problem to contend with since I can't afford new clothes very often anyway

Whilst at a children's party today I had to ignore an annoying comment from an ommni. There were vegetarian children, one vegan child (mine) and two muslim children who were eating vegetarian for the day. Whilst preparing a plate of veggie/vegan sausages everyone was checking which children could eat what and she said don't forget the muslim kids if they eat the meat that would be serious. I had did a sharp intake of breathe.
So it's only serious for them? Does she think if my daughter was the child who mistakingly ended up with bits of animal carcass in her mouth it wouldn't matter because It's for ethical reasons we don't eat it rather than religious ones?

[philfox]

as an atheist that gets me too. ethical reasons exist, i can walk into a slaughter house and see suffering i can read how many animals die each year becasue people like the taste of their rotting flesh in their mouths. however you cannot prove anything religious. apparently pigs are unclean. i think all farmed animals are 'unclean' when you look at the conditions they live in.
i get fed up of going to parties and things as i always get 'but they are already dead'! or i made some cheese sandwiches, or theres some fish. i've become so reclusive becasue of other people.

[eclectic_one]

I agree that ethical reasons exist, but there are many reasons as a christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Jew, etc. that can be given for not eating meat (or any animal products). The problem though is that some of the people who follow these paths will argue other sections of the same holy books for why it is OK to eat meat/animal products I am a christian, but arguing with other christians about why you should be vegan--religious ideals or ethical ones--just doesn't seem to do much good.

[Steph]

philfox, I'm not an athiest as you are, but I so understand what you've said, it makes so much sense to me, I practice no defined religion, but I do believe in a higher power, but whatever, it makes no difference in how the reality of animals endure torture daily. Whether one is an athiest, christian, muslim, jewish, agnostic, buddist, etc., the REALITY OF ANIMALS being killed and suffering and slaughtered continues daily whatever belief one follows.
Don't be reclusive because of the nimrods dimwits fucknunts etc. , just do your own thing, smile, tell them no thanks, I don't eat that thank you very much, and eat what you can, if not, eat later and enjoy the drinks!!

[null_void]

Not to derail the ongoing conversation, but I had to get this off my chest.

I'm not really a violent person. I sometimes have trouble getting emotional when I should (and sometimes get emotional when I shouldn't). Anyway, the only time I've really, for an instant, wanted to enact violence against a person based on their eating habits follows (I didn't, of course, and I calmed down quickly, but... it was a bit disturbing that for a moment, I wanted to punch this person).

I was sitting in a van with several other people. One person brought up veal. A friend of mine in the front of the van (non-vegan) asked something to the effect of: "You know what they do to veal, right?" The original commenter replied: "Yes, it's a small price to pay for being so tasty." I was a bit grouchy for the rest of the ride.

[sandra]

That must have been awful for you null void, sitting in such a confined space with someone making that sort of comment. You would just love to drag that person there and then and confront them with how they get 'their' veal!
You handled the situation admirably, I would probably have spent the rest of the journey giving him/her a lecture, which isn't always the best thing to do!

[fiamma]

"Yes, it's a small price to pay for being so tasty."

A few days ago a vet friend was describing practices in the veal industry here (veal is very popular). It would be interesting to keep that person in analogous conditions to formula-fed veal and see if he still thinks the price to pay is so small.

[rianaelf]

this reminds me of the time wen i was visiting my neice in London at the same time as my sister.
We decided to go out for a meal and my neice suggested a place which seemed to cater for everyone.
Anyway time comes for us to order and my sister <to my utmost horror> ordered calves liver <shudder>
Wen it cam, amd the waitor had gone away, my sister said:
'i hope this is real calf's liver'
she then went on to taste it and said{
'oh yes, it definately is, its delicious!'
and this coming from my lovely sweet very affectionate and kind sister